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  • #31
    Player B-- throw #1 goes 500 ft past the basket. Damn headwind! Provisional throw is a hole-in-two. Does Player B have to look for drive #1?
    Technically, yes or it's a courtesy violation (sportsmanship or even "littering"). However, the group has the option to look for the Player B's first throw for at least 3 minutes. If Player B's disc is found, then player B has to play it or declare an Optional Rethrow and then go back to the top of the hill and rethrow from the tee. The provisional cannot be used unless the the original throw was never found (i.e. lost). And it wouldn't be a hole-in-two but hole-in-three due to the Optional Rethrow penalty.

    Provisionals can never be thrown based on the possibility the first throw is unplayable, only that it might be lost. If it turns out the first throw is found and the player decides the shot is unplayable, the provisional based on the possibility the disc was lost CANNOT be used. The player must make an Optional Rethrow under the new rules.

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    • #32
      Why does this have to be so complicated Oh right we are playing for money

      Really happened So I throw and we think it went into the river I throw a provisional and then go look for disc. (In this instance I did not find it) but what if I see it floating in or even on the other side of the river? Haven't I done all the right things?

      Really happened at the aforementioned Four Mound *Rattlesnake ridge.
      Basically the hole plays uphill 400ft
      first third grass fairway low slope
      middle third rocks and loose gravel med slope
      last third small green lies on edge of 15 ft ledge Pin maybe 25 from edge

      So I play my way up the hill past the pin 20 ft . throw my next shot miss and end up right on the ledge There is no safe place to stand and play so I proceed back down to the next safest place meaning I have to renegotiate my way back up the cliff. When I could have in fact just abandoned the disc on the edge and re putt with a one stroke penalty.

      Isn't it up to me to decide whether I want to look for my disc for 3 min or not? (I see the reason why it should have a limit) Why can't I just abandon the disc (say I will come back later and look) By not looking Aren't I showing courtesy to the entire field by not slowing down the course?

      I am not sure how it's another penalty after all doesn't my score card reflect the accurate score with excepted penalty?

      Doesn't a courtsey or littering penalty seem like it's just piling on?

      Finally
      Do I need my lawyer to review my pre registration before I sign up?
      or how about when I turn in my card?


      Aren't the two descriptions the same thing.
      Optional re throw: back to last spot 1 stoke penalty
      Provisional: back to last spot 1 stroke penalty
      In my mind the only diference is the time/effort lost on the walk back


      * I think I have a pic or two will look and post
      Last edited by LJ Jubner; February 14th, 2011, 07:46 AM. Reason: additional thought in bold
      rewindb.com

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      • #33
        You can always declare an Optional Rethrow with penalty anytime. However, the only difference we're talking about is whether you threw a provisional before knowing the status of your original throw. A provisional cannot be converted into an Optional Rethrow because you already know the outcome of the rethrow. In the case a disc actually ends up lost and a provisional was thrown in case it was lost, using the provisional is not actually turning it into an Optional Rethrow but it just becomes the player's third throw. Totally clear, right?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
          You can always declare an Optional Rethrow with penalty anytime. However, the only difference we're talking about is whether you threw a provisional before knowing the status of your original throw. A provisional cannot be converted into an Optional Rethrow because you already know the outcome of the rethrow. In the case a disc actually ends up lost and a provisional was thrown in case it was lost, using the provisional is not actually turning it into an Optional Rethrow but it just becomes the player's third throw. Totally clear, right?

          Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
          You can always declare an Optional Rethrow with penalty anytime.
          That's good If I declare a re throw then the first I do not even need to make the effort to looked for it? I am lying 2 (one out, one back) throwing 3

          Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
          However, the only difference we're talking about is whether you threw a provisional before knowing the status of your original throw.
          I get this sort of. Exact status? no. sneaking suspision? yes.

          Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
          A provisional cannot be converted into an Optional Rethrow because you already know the outcome of the rethrow.
          I don't see why they can't. Both cost me a stroke

          The only differences are:
          the time to walk out there
          then the time spent looking
          (Can others throw before my 3 min start? What if we are looking for more then one disc?)
          then the time to walk back to the last spot (by best guess)
          then my reasonable amount time before I throw again
          then I walk back out. All the while the group behind is thinking WTF? (Hopefully it's only one group)

          If I walk back does anyone from my group need to accompany me or is the next waiting group good enough?

          What about speed of play for the rest of the group? do they all just stand off to the side and wait till I reappear or can they finish out? How about I join the following group by throwing last. IE they all throw while I am walking back I throw and then we all walk out. So now, they are waiting on their seconds while I finish out and rejoin my group. or we could let them play through?

          Bottom line if you throw a shit shot optional rethrow is always the choice to save your round. because it only costs you one stroke.
          rewindb.com

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          • #35
            That's the rule in ball golf and adopted for disc golf. You cannot turn a provisional into your Optional Rethrow IF your original disc is found and you choose not to play it. Only if your original throw ends up OB, lost or above 2m (if that rule is in effect) can you convert a provisional into your Optional Rethrow. The difference, if any of these three possibilities happen versus finding your disc in a terrible location, is that the three aforementioned situations already include a penalty. Finding your disc in a terrible location that isn't currently penalized means you have a choice for taking a penalty or playing it. That's why you cannot use the provisional because its outcome is known before you make an elective decision to accept the penalty and throw again.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
              What about speed of play for the rest of the group? do they all just stand off to the side and wait till I reappear or can they finish out? How about I join the following group by throwing last. IE they all throw while I am walking back I throw and then we all walk out. So now, they are waiting on their seconds while I finish out and rejoin my group. or we could let them play through?

              Bottom line if you throw a shit shot optional rethrow is always the choice to save your round. because it only costs you one stroke.
              Jub, your concept leaves the door open to every player throwing two shots for any lie.

              Contrived situatoin:
              I play Seatac 18. I throw a decent drive up the fairway but land 20ft behind a tree. I have a full 250-300 left on my upshot and I yank my disc into a tree and it bounces 10ft back into the blackberries.

              According to your interpretation, I could throw a provisional:
              First possibilty: I park my provisional next to the pin, immediately call the other disc 'un-playable,' and still pull a decent 4 on a wickedly hard hole.
              Second possibility: I hit the same tree with my provisional, ricochet into worse position, and decide to just play my first throw since it will save me strokes in the long run.

              The current rule makes it so you would have to find your disc and decide at that point not, knowing the outcome of your optional re-throw, if it was in your best interest to call the lie 'un-playable'...
              When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

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