Rules Comment: Disc lands under road... Page Title Module
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  • #16
    So, in a given sized pipe, it might be a playable lie for a skinny man and not a fat man? Or, say a guy with a good fifth lumbar disc, or me, with my ruptured disc.
    The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
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    • #17
      Consider a walk-in sized cave that is in a hillside. If you threw in there, you wouldn't be thinking about relocating the lie above the cave. Now, just think of the cave opening getting smaller and smaller. At some point, it becomes too small for taller people to get in there and throw and eventually no human might be able to take a legal stance in there and throw, but that doesn't mean the cave floor is not a "playing surface" any more. If you can't take a legal stance, that's exactly what the unplayable lie rule is there to address, along with lies where it may be unsafe to take a stance like in a nasty thorn area. Shooting a disc into a sidehill hole is just one of those bad breaks where an unplayable lie and penalty sometimes has to be taken. And, what structures happen to be above the hole such as a road don't matter.

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      • #18
        So you can throw below your lie, but not above it? Sounds kind of arbitrary....

        So if my disc slips through a slot in the cover and lands at the bottom of a small, deep, dry well, I must play from the bottom of the well? I can't stand on the well cover (above my disc) and throw?
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        • #19
          My example was for essentially sideways situations. There's a Rules Q&A that covers the crack in the playing surface situation with the consensus that you could mark it on the well cover just behind the crack, even though the rules don't specifically cover this situation.

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          • #20
            Thanks for your quick response, Chuck.

            But what if the well had no cover? Say it is a 1-foot diameter well, 200 feet deep, and dried out for decades. Do I now have to play from the bottom of the well? (Extreme example, granted, but for theoretical purposes.)

            Or, let's say it's a bridge over in-bounds terrain (maybe with only a foot of clearance). Or back to the pipes laying on the ground. I say, let verticality apply DOWNWARD or UPWARD. And let reasonableness reign. I say that stuck in a tree, or a well, under a bridge, inside dry pipes, etc. the player should be allowed to play any of them from a safe, reasonable surface, directly behind their lie, above or below it as needed. Just mark it, shoot it, and retrieve it (if possible), in that order.

            Maybe in my retirement I will try out for the rules committee. If I could die having effected just one PDGA rule change, I could die a happy man!
            Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
            Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
            Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
            Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
            Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

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            • #21
              There really isn't a problem because the unplayable lie rule handles any unrecognized special situations on a course. However, if there are regular situations on courses like some you mentioned, the course pro or TD has the option, in fact responsibility, to specify relief rules in advance such as going to a drop zone, playing from behind a well pit (which is a safety issue that should be handled anyway) or playing UP on a higher playing surface such as a wooden deck where a disc can slide under. For example, we have a small elevated footbridge on my local course where the rule is players may play up on the bridge without penalty if they are directly under it.

              It's unlikely you will see phrases like " free relief to a safe lie" written in the rules for the same reason only the player can determine what's a playable versus unplayable lie. These are slippery concepts for a group to decide for another player.

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