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  • #16
    I think the 'buncr' idea is asinine. I am not a proponent of contriving imaginary boundaries in order to add difficulty to a hole.
    The boundaries are no more imaginary than OB areas.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Ombudsman View Post
      imaginary
      So if everything we experience is filtered through a mind that is not fully understood or explainable can't all things be considered "imaginary"?
      Click here

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
        The members of the Disc Golf Course Designers group (now 125) considered the "stand and deliver" buncrs as one option but felt uncomfortable with that approach as not being in the spirit of golf. While "stand and deliver" would be an interesting part of the game, the way that we would prefer it be achieved is by landing in areas or hazards where stand and deliver is the player's best choice for making an accurate throw but not a required stance, the common example being a throw from woodsy schule.
        Chuck, I agree that the best way to move a player's decision toward a specific type of shot (i.e standing) is to use natural elements. That is why I mentioned that using the buncr as I was describing was in lieu of placing huge amounts of sand or pea gravel in strategic places around the course. If you have an established course with excess funds in it's account then I would love nothing better than to see "true" hazards created.

        However, this is generally not the case and especially not so in tourney situations with temp courses. That was the only reason that I thought the standing concept would be used. This would then allow the player to "play it where it lies" but play it as if it was stuck in the sand on the beach where run ups are fruitless.

        And you, my friend, are killing me with this not being in the "spirit of golf". Don't make me go back to the basket stuck in the tree that people had to use a stick to get their disc back.......don't make me!!!!!

        Love ya' Chuck!

        Later,
        Scott Papa
        Team Discraft
        Instructional Editor DiscGolfer Magazine

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        • #19
          I have always wondered how we could make courses more difficult by using hazards. Throwing over something is a good idea. Like the Tac there are several hole that have what I would call fairway hazards. #12 for sure. You have the little schule (right side) just short of the first trail, the pecker poles on the left just after the trail, The wall about halfway down on the right (past the cedar). another one 50 ft farther up the right side and the infamous Holly bush 15 feet short of the pin.
          rewindb.com

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          • #20
            Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
            I have always wondered how we could make courses more difficult by using hazards. Throwing over something is a good idea. Like the Tac there are several hole that have what I would call fairway hazards. #12 for sure. You have the little schule (right side) just short of the first trail, the pecker poles on the left just after the trail, The wall about halfway down on the right (past the cedar). another one 50 ft farther up the right side and the infamous Holly bush 15 feet short of the pin.
            Without a doubt the best thing to use is natural elements and Hole 12 at Seatac is a great example of just that. The good thing is that (a) Seatac doesn't get played as much as other courses and (b) most of those obstacles are fairly staunch. In most parks, the original plan to have this bush or that stand of little trees as obstacles lasts for only a short time. A course I used to play in Joliet was originally known as "bush park" but now is nothing but grass and widely spaced huge oak trees. Very beautiful but not very technically demanding any longer.

            The idea of buncrs is more to help those course that do not have the natural obstacles like Seatac. There, they would just take away from the design of the true course.

            Later,
            Papa
            Team Discraft
            Instructional Editor DiscGolfer Magazine

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            • #21
              Even at Juel Park buncrs would be ridiculous
              "I love it when a plan comes together" -John 'Hannibal' Smith

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              • #22
                I think that when a players skill level reaches a certain point they want more challenge. I have always liked to play holes that could be considered "hard" holes. The harder the course or hole the better you are going to get.
                My home course is riverside in washington. The main courses are not very technically demanding. If I shoot less than 10 to 12 under on the red or blue courses I am unsatisfied. If I remember correctly, scott, didn't you shoot something silly like a16 on red a couple few years ago in tourney play? Too easy!
                Having rounds full of straight forward threes or easy twos gives me false confidance when I go play a course that demands more of me. I like to play all bushes as ob, or take lines that aren't really the best choice for the shot. Changing things up and making it a bit more difficult keeps me sharp. Anybody looking to get better should look for these buncr type challenges and feed on them to get better.
                Bring on the buncrs, OB strings, random children jumping from bushes swinging sticks making noises and telling you how you are the sith and they are skywalker, then repeating, "hey dad, hey dad, hey dad" when you are trying to putt. Is that last one just me or do most courses have this feature.

                Seek out challenges and you will be rewarded.
                Click here

                Challenge disc golf

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                • #23
                  And you, my friend, are killing me with this not being in the "spirit of golf". Don't make me go back to the basket stuck in the tree that people had to use a stick to get their disc back.......don't make me!!!!!
                  No problem with that pin placement which had 360 degree access with a skillful not funky putt being required sometimes. In ball golf, they have some kidney shaped greens where in certain areas you can't putt at the pin but have to chip over the apron to the part of the green with the pin. That's more challenging than what that tree basket at Worlds presented.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
                    No problem with that pin placement which had 360 degree access with a skillful not funky putt being required sometimes. In ball golf, they have some kidney shaped greens where in certain areas you can't putt at the pin but have to chip over the apron to the part of the green with the pin. That's more challenging than what that tree basket at Worlds presented.
                    Until disc golf has the funds to "create" a course, not just "instal" a course, I don't think there is anyway around using imaginary lines for obstacles. That being said, it doesn't mean that I like it. I think string lines in disc golf should be used at an absolute minimum, and mandos for safety ONLY. If a hole needs to be more difficult, change the hole or like Papa said, add a real feature. I think scotchbroom goes a long way for natural obstacles (Steilly SE #14-15)

                    When was the last time you seen a string line on a ball golf course?
                    A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!

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                    • #25
                      Actually, some of us in the course design group are hoping to move toward the ball golf approach where players are required to carry a tape measure or string to make OB calls when the ball is near a stake line. I've heard the ball golfers carry a packet of dental floss to make those calls.

                      We did this at Highbridge for the 2007 Pro Worlds. Every player got a 10m tape in their player packs. Most OB including water hazards either had white stakes or white markers flush to the ground (especially by roads) placed about 20-25 feet apart. If a close call needed to be made, then you bring out the tape and run it between the markers and make the call. This would eliminate a lot of paint and string if OB (or buncrs) were marked this way. We've talked about having tape measures be part of the PDGA member packet whenever they are ready to move this direction. The tape measure can double as a mini marker since it's the proper size.

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                      • #26
                        Actually Scott your Bush Course phenomenon is happening at SeaTac too. With the overplay at Lakewood the Tac is getting more and more new or less experienced players. Who take matters into their own hands to make the course easier (as it turns out) for themselves only.
                        rewindb.com

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                          Actually Scott your Bush Course phenomenon is happening at SeaTac too. With the overplay at Lakewood the Tac is getting more and more new or less experienced players. Who take matters into their own hands to make the course easier (as it turns out) for themselves only.
                          I noticed that the last time I was out there, #10 was cleared out quite a bit.
                          A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!

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                          • #28
                            10 is not so bad the stuff done on 9 short and right of the trail it was much more of a tunnel shot then it is now.. down the center all the way to the basket. The butchery on 17 continues on the right side (past the jub shrub and Munoz bush) 18 Basket is another example. I personally have 15 Arbour Society Native trees ready to go into the ground but I am afraid they will just get chopped down.


                            Back to topic That's the best way to make a hazard plant stuff.

                            6 about 50 ft in front of the tee plant a short hedge say 36" high or less across the fairway. Does it effect your shot? No! but it does say don't throw it low.

                            15 Plant a 5 ft tall hedge that runs parallel to the fairway from tee to about 50 ft (shrink fairway to maybe 20 ft visually there). Again does it change the shot? No! but it does get in your head
                            rewindb.com

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by REDFIVE View Post
                              I think that when a players skill level reaches a certain point they want more challenge...
                              Bring on the buncrs, OB strings, random children jumping from bushes swinging sticks making noises and telling you how you are the sith and they are skywalker, then repeating, "hey dad, hey dad, hey dad" when you are trying to putt. Is that last one just me or do most courses have this feature.

                              Seek out challenges and you will be rewarded.
                              I know the feeling... Just yesterday I played a round in 15to 20mph wind while pushing a double stroller with a 2&3 year old running around.
                              Throw What You Know.
                              "Gravity, she's a harsh mistress." -The Tick
                              PDGA# 45989

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