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  • #31
    I am ready for a change...

    Originally posted by Yoduh View Post
    Thank you Lyle, we can't have the "club" saying good things or giving positive feedback, it's embarrassing to Jeff and myself. It invalidates the whole mob mentality that 5 or so people have which as you can see by reading this forum, is the whole club.
    I must be confused here... so the best way to move these projects forward and gain the respect of the disc golf community is to never cease with the smart alec remarks and jabbing and poking at others? I'm not saying you are the only one guilty at this by any means, Jeremy. But I just would like to know WHEN THIS WILL STOP?? EVER??

    I have been a "voiceless" member of the local DG community for some time now. But those days are over for me. From now on I will be a voting member of the SDGA and will be voicing my thoughts, feelings, and opinions POLITELY AND REASONABLY.

    I fully agree with you and am just as excited to get Sekani established as soon as possible. But I do feel that because this will be a public course with several groups and agencies involved, this should have been a public project with all decisions and plans going through the proper channels (board, voting members, etc) from day ONE.

    I really hope that moving forward we can all be mature about this, look at past mistakes and successes, as appropriate, and move forward with the best attempt at continuing those successes and avoiding those mistakes if at all possible. I am not going to try and change how you or anybody else thinks or feels about disc golf or the community involved with it. But when the need for discussion, planning, and even criticism arises, please make it CONSTRUCTIVE and not DESTRUCTIVE.
    SDGA PR Guy.... bringing the Public to the Relations... or the Relations to the Public?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sky Pilot View Post
      I lead the ACTION party
      Thank you Jeff.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sky Pilot View Post
        and Gordy....
        ...yeah. Not so much, Jeff.
        Last edited by coryreu; December 5th, 2011, 08:03 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Simmeltron View Post
          I must be confused here... so the best way to move these projects forward and gain the respect of the disc golf community is to never cease with the smart alec remarks and jabbing and poking at others? I'm not saying you are the only one guilty at this by any means, Jeremy. But I just would like to know WHEN THIS WILL STOP?? EVER??

          I have been a "voiceless" member of the local DG community for some time now. But those days are over for me. From now on I will be a voting member of the SDGA and will be voicing my thoughts, feelings, and opinions POLITELY AND REASONABLY.

          I fully agree with you and am just as excited to get Sekani established as soon as possible. But I do feel that because this will be a public course with several groups and agencies involved, this should have been a public project with all decisions and plans going through the proper channels (board, voting members, etc) from day ONE.

          I really hope that moving forward we can all be mature about this, look at past mistakes and successes, as appropriate, and move forward with the best attempt at continuing those successes and avoiding those mistakes if at all possible. I am not going to try and change how you or anybody else thinks or feels about disc golf or the community involved with it. But when the need for discussion, planning, and even criticism arises, please make it CONSTRUCTIVE and not DESTRUCTIVE.
          Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
          , Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been addresed by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!
          Last edited by tomw; December 7th, 2011, 03:27 AM. Reason: replace "addresed" after removing the word denied, a better choice imo

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tomw View Post
            Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
            , Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!
            Tom, Jeff's statement is accusatory. He is stating what he himself might feel if Jeff owned his own course.
            If it were me who owned a private course, I would pay this sort of statement no mind unless it was brought up to me, in person. Then I could make it clear how our own personal beliefs differed. Then, once that is clear, truths or falsehoods towards Jeff's accusations could become common knowledge. Never would I respond(let alone just simply deny), to an intended offensive statement like this on a forum. Never have I heard the topic come up in a meeting. So why should it come up on the forum?

            Comment


            • #36
              You guys all know that one good read from a Spokane Parks and Recreation member could very well soil all the good intentions that all of us have towards this heavenly piece of property. If they see we are so divided on so many issues and prefer to air out our dirty laundry in a public place, it won't end well.
              "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
              Cleveland Brown

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by tomw View Post
                Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
                , Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!
                Tom, I know that Gordy doesn't feel this way. He has raised $40 over the last two weeks from benefits held out at Four Mound. Why would he do this if he had a 'conflict of interest' concerning Camp Sekani?

                While you might feel this way as you have posted yourself, you can't claim to know how any one else feels. I know from talking with Gordy that he is as excited as anyone else in the SDGA to see Camp Sekani be developed into a great course(s).

                I completely agree with you that SDGA Members, who care, need to voice their opinions about every thing our club undertakes.

                Here's a link so that you may renew your membership to the SDGA. Or you can sign up online here. It takes a lot of $20 memberships to buy a basket.
                Fly free and straight to the pin!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by tomw View Post
                  Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
                  , Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!
                  tomw, you are certainly entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. It is your right and I have no right trying to change your mind unless you asked me for some constructive conversation on the matter.

                  That said, I have a completely different opinion on the matter in regards to private course owners being threatened by Sekani and it is fully within my right to express that. No way whatsoever do I see that being the case. Threatened of WHAT???? Of the private courses in the Spokane area (T-N-T, Stimpi, Four Mound, am I missing any?), only one charges a fee at all to play. A measly $5 per car fee. I would gladly give more then that for all the work and money that Gordy puts into his courses. Besides, right now Gordy is putting ALL his collected monies into the Sekani fund. Threatened? I don't think so.

                  T-N-T and Stimpi Ridge also have nothing to be threatened by. They are clearly different and unique to anything that Sekani is going to become. I just don't see what logic there is for these private course owners (who built their courses simply for the love of the game, not to get rich, LOL) to be threatened at all by Sekani. Call me naive, but I see the great private courses in the area being a perfect complement to the great public courses we have. And I tell all my friends and family the very same thing and how lucky we are to have all these excellent choices to play in this area. I still believe that and will continue to.

                  I can't wait for Sekani to go in. And I will also fight to the end so that is goes in properly, with the best design possible, through all the proper channels and with all the proper parties involved. Yes, it may be a bit more complicated then just having one or two people go gung-ho designing and building on it and then having the club pay for it, but I would gladly wait a bit longer so that it goes in correctly.

                  This is a PUBLIC course, for the people who love the sport. Therefore, the people who love the sport should all get a say in the matter instead of having their choices, rights, and opinions made up for them.
                  SDGA PR Guy.... bringing the Public to the Relations... or the Relations to the Public?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by coryreu View Post
                    Tom, Jeff's statement is accusatory. He is stating what he himself might feel if Jeff owned his own course.
                    If it were me who owned a private course, I would pay this sort of statement no mind unless it was brought up to me, in person. Then I could make it clear how our own personal beliefs differed. Then, once that is clear, truths or falsehoods towards Jeff's accusations could become common knowledge. Never would I respond(let alone just simply deny), to an intended offensive statement like this on a forum. Never have I heard the topic come up in a meeting. So why should it come up on the forum?
                    Very well put sir. This is how this forum should be run.
                    SDGA PR Guy.... bringing the Public to the Relations... or the Relations to the Public?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by LJ Jubner
                      I am going to have to call Bullshit on the idea that private course owners are worried about any new course.
                      LJ, while I may agree with your overall statement (what I quoted above), sorry bro we really need to try and not be so harsh and critical with our words (what I didn't quote), especially when eternalized on the Interwebs.

                      One thing that I have learned in my short 31 years, is that the past is the past. If you want to move forward, you are likely to trip and fall on your face at some point from all that looking back. What has happened, has happened, but I still have hope that we can get this done and be as diplomatic as possible in doing so.

                      Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic in my views, but hey, I'm new so give me a break.
                      SDGA PR Guy.... bringing the Public to the Relations... or the Relations to the Public?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        All I care about is making Sekani a must play destination. With all the land and talent in the area, there is no reason it couldn't become the Milo Mciver of Washington. All that needs to happen is everyone has to check their personal belief systems at the door ...

                        ...now how do we do that?
                        "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
                        Cleveland Brown

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Milo? I don't think so...

                          Originally posted by General Scales View Post
                          All I care about is making Sekani a must play destination. With all the land and talent in the area, there is no reason it couldn't become the Milo Mciver of Washington.
                          ...now how do we do that?
                          First of all, even though Jeff presented this project to the club as a 105 acre park, (and he got us another 40 acres! Atta Boy!), in reality we have about 50 acres or so to design and build on.
                          Nobody talks about this because of this inane "Land Grab" mentality.

                          To me that says 18 quality holes, not 36 holes that need mandatories and such to keep everyone safe.
                          We may, or may not, get to build on the 40 acres of Conservancy land, which would be more holes, but that's not on the table at this time.

                          I think all you erstwhile course designers ought to get the parameters of our usable area and judge for yourselves.

                          As far as me, as a Private Course owner, not wanting to see quality public golf happen, or whatever I'm being accused of, I can only say, it's Poppycock!

                          That's a silly response to a silly accusation. I'm a disc golfer first, who appreciates ALL the public course I've ever seen, and love the fact that there were only 750 courses when I started playing, and now there's over 3000. Why would I not want that trend to continue?
                          I do.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I Like the Layout

                            I like the course layouts. Lets get the baskets in before they tell us we cant have them there. It worked for the mountain bikers with the way they put in trails. It should work for us with baskets.


                            GARILLA DISC GOLF


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Simmeltron View Post
                              I must be confused here... so the best way to move these projects forward and gain the respect of the disc golf community is to never cease with the smart alec remarks and jabbing and poking at others? I'm not saying you are the only one guilty at this by any means, Jeremy. But I just would like to know WHEN THIS WILL STOP?? EVER??

                              I have been a "voiceless" member of the local DG community for some time now. But those days are over for me. From now on I will be a voting member of the SDGA and will be voicing my thoughts, feelings, and opinions POLITELY AND REASONABLY.

                              I fully agree with you and am just as excited to get Sekani established as soon as possible. But I do feel that because this will be a public course with several groups and agencies involved, this should have been a public project with all decisions and plans going through the proper channels (board, voting members, etc) from day ONE.

                              I really hope that moving forward we can all be mature about this, look at past mistakes and successes, as appropriate, and move forward with the best attempt at continuing those successes and avoiding those mistakes if at all possible. I am not going to try and change how you or anybody else thinks or feels about disc golf or the community involved with it. But when the need for discussion, planning, and even criticism arises, please make it CONSTRUCTIVE and not DESTRUCTIVE.
                              I fully admit that I have been guilty of reacting. If you go back and read the posts on this forum I was never picking on anyone trying to start anything. I will try to watch my tone as I'd like some peace in our club soon. Our meetings have been nasty and draining. Not something that is sustainable or enjoyable. The last few posts I have made, have already addressed this issue somewhat. I'm not going to bicker about what people "think I have done" or am doing. I have done nothing that would jeprodize this course, nor would I.

                              As far as this whole event's timeline is concerned. I have been accused of keeping this whole thing a secret. I found out 2 days before I left town for a week that we could be getting a walk through of what a layout would look like at Camp Sekani. I spent 2 days helping Jeff set something up (Not counting the 300+ hours I have spent up there designing holes for fun) I was asked by Jeff to help him arrange things so that the parks department could see what a course might look like on this land. When I got back Wednesday night I was excited to go help finish setting things up to show the parks. We had 2 more days to get it set up. We pushed the pin placements out as wide as we could going over trails and such. The club had known that we were going to have a fundraiser the evening that I left, as posted by Bob on November 3rd. As far as I knew the club finding out about the project actually going through was 2 days behind me knowing it might be happening. What I knew was that it might be going through and that they wanted to see what it would look like. Two days later they were given the full green light.

                              The pins that were well into the bike area were moved before anybody had even played the layout. So as far as putting bikers in danger to accrue land it was done without anybody actually playing it. Now what the bikers said was ok and what Mike Aho said would be ok, has turned out to have some issues. So I met with the bike president yesterday to hear all of his concerns and to make things as smooth and as good as possible. In our meeting he said that there are several trails that he could easily divert in order to give US as much area as possible. In exchange he wanted two serious issues addressed. Which I did immediately. The areas that he would divert traffic around would give us at least 2 more acres. and 2 new sweet holes! Hole 7's green would no longer have a trail through it. The big concern was hole 5 and that hole has been moved to a much shorter position to keep discs away from the green gate, we can install a long pin position that could be placed at a tournament. The area below the rocks will be completely opened up to disc golf with all those jumps being destroyed and the bridge up in the gully being removed completely. The traffic that flows out in the middle of hole 17's fairway can easily be rerouted so that bikes will be easily seen. NOW ALL of these changes are not going in anytime really soon. The bike president said the next time they got a backhoe that he would make these changes. Even if a completely different design was set up and used and became our permenant layout OUR AREA IS EFFECTIVELY MUCH BIGGER WITH THESE CHANGES THAT THE BIKE CLUB IS WILLING TO INSTALL!!!!!

                              The course that we have been playing will be altered without cutting and after walking through it today it can easily be installed by just moving flags and buckets. I will have it functional and playable by this Sunday so that we can play some dubs at 11:30. NONE OF THIS WILL BE PERMANENT!!!!!! I set this meeting so that any mountain biking toes that were being stepped on can be relieved. A couple holes will get easier because it is the simplest solution. I am talking about a no impact solution to letting golf continue safely at Camp Sekani.
                              Relax and enjoy your hair
                              TNT Yardworks.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I think its funny that several people said that no one can infer the feelings and motivations of private course owners, and then go on to infer feelings and motivations for Jeff and Jeremy in those very same posts.

                                Please look at yourself before pointing the finger at others. Petty squabbling doesn't help anything.
                                We're at our best when it's from our hips

                                Comment

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