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  • #61
    There are no groups here Jub. This is a debate on several issues, with individuals making different arguments based on their personal beliefs (with no regards as to where they're from or which club they belong to). There are several points that are being debated here:
    1. Chainbangerz shop is evil and is out to scam all golfers.
      It sounds like there's a pretty near consensus here that the shop tries its best to do the right thing for golfers. As with anything that deals with large quantities, sorting through the many many lost discs that are turned in can be daunting. A few will be missed, and this may not necessarily be malicious or intentional. The key part is providing the incentive for golfers to turn in found discs while not trying to 'game' the system, and this is a very difficult line to tread. I've heard of people finding discs and not turning them in or calling people until the shop reinstates the credit system. We should be turning discs in because they don't belong to us, instead of trying to capitalize on other people's loss.
      There's also the issue of payouts. This results more from players not understanding the rules that TDs have to follow to run tournaments. The more discussion we have about this the better informed players can be.
      The shop itself donates to many of the tournaments, whether for player's packs, CTP prizes, or straight out cash. So it makes it very hard to argue that the shop is 'out to get' the golfers in WA. And yes, the shop is financially separate from the club, despite having many of the same participants. The club has fought not only to keep Seatac on the ground, but also to expand it to 27 holes. The club has also supported the addition of 6 holes at Lakewood after it lost 6 of the upper holes. All of this has been done by running smaller experimental tournaments centered at having fun while fundraising. The club has been extremely grateful to everyone that has participated and supported these events. And these people can now take pride in the fact that they helped save Seattle's premier courses. For people who boycott these tourments, well, they have their own priorities.
    2. Fundraising issues
      Most of the people here have supported fundraising tournaments because we are a grass-roots community that supports our own growth (Yay us!! ). However, the argument that all fundraisers are equal is hard to accept. Spider-Dan, if everyone was like you and can be generous about everything and to all players, then this argument is moot point. But not everyone is able/willing to give their all. And many people who do give back to the community have to prioritize what they can support. For some, it's supporting their friends to play. For others, it's donating to the course, For yet others, it's using disc golf to help the homeless or other charities. And it's a personal choice. Kudos to everyone who do support fundraising tournaments because it's their own personal way of giving back. No matter what they choose to support, at least they gave back. Unlike people who boycott any/all fundraising tournaments because they get nothing out of it.
    3. What does it mean to "do something for the sport"?
      The key argument here is who the beneficiary is. For anything that we golfers do, we can always ask who/what benefits out of this action. A player can practice, play casual games with friends, go to tournaments, etc, and most of the time these actions primarily benefit himself/herself. At least it's very hard to argue how one player's game can benefit the rest of the community.
      What actions benefit the rest of the community? It can be as small as carrying your own trash out of the course and not leaving it for someone else to pick up. Or cleaning up the course by picking other's trash. Or POLITELY informing new players the etiquette of disc golf play. Or being the bridge between discgolfers and the larger community. How about participating in work parties? Playing in fundraising tournaments? Running tournaments? All of these things benefit everyone else, including the person doing these actions. THIS is how you do something for the sport. Thankfully, there are always dedicated individuals who do all of these things for everyone else's benefit because if there wasn't, I'd be ashamed to call myself a disc golfer.


    • #62
      Wow, I might be biased because I'm your fiancť but that was beautiful!
      Last edited by cefire; April 23rd, 2012, 11:03 AM.
      'Weekend 4 Women':
      Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
      Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier


      • #63
        Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
        Thanks Andrew
        Why else would the tone be so confrontational?
        Because everyone is frustrated. Keith (et al) has one agenda, same with Mark and I and Jessie spoke for the players. Then there are the silent two groups whos agendas are undeclared but seem pretty obvious.
        Sorry Jub, I cannot let this statement stand without some clarification...
        As a member of the board of West Sound I am asking you what our "undeclared but pretty obvious" agenda is.
        Board Member of the West Sound Disc Golf Association
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        • #64
          cefire, i understand you have run events. thanx for all you have done.

          about the payout. ask keith. a mistake was made. problem fixed. i doubt it will happen again
          (and i dont think it was done on purpose)
          but mistakes happen. its upto all of us to adress the problem in a better way, and do what we can to rectify the situation.

          also i would like to clarify- Jessie is NOT, let me repeat,
          Jessie is NOT hosting her own fundraiser to go to worlds!

          WE, her friends and community, are hosting FOR HER!!!!!
          I think i needed to state this point clearly.

          CE i really dont understand your thinking, especially with your background. But that's what makes us individuals. I dont understand why it is so difficult for ANY td to support another persons attempt to run an event. Especially when the event has so much support already.
          to speak that individual fundraisers, are somehow morally innapropriate ( i know, your priorities, but that's how i took your post cefire) is bs to me. it is the individualls choice to donate or not donate.
          NOBODY should speak out in protest of such an event.
          Multiple fundraisers are possible.
          I can't wait to see how nice Terrace Creek will be after Jessies fundraiser.
          In my eyes it will be similar to a GIANT work party. I know that the people in attendance will do their best to keep Terrace clean.

          At first i thought your point of view was somewhat valid, just different sides of the fence. Now i think it is more of a personal nature. Maybe im wrong. But i hope to hear that you are as outspoken against someone else trying to raise money to goto worlds, as well. Or for any individual agenda, that does not benifit the many.
          i could say more....

          i just wish all the people who have been pilars in the disc golf community would work together.
          jub (mooooooose), keith, cefire, and others..... u should all get together n smoke one(or two) and have a players party this year. Get alll the vendors, and have a mini tournament or something new. I know it wont happen, but just a thought.

          O ya, thanx kieth! I appriciate you makin the situation right with my leopard.
          My lost disc, that couldnt swim, was returned to me. I paid 8$ at the shop for that disc, later kieth refunded the cost of the disc. Thank you! its not the $, in the principle. Actions like this, help build a better standing in the community.

          sometimes a little good goes a long way. But the negativity needs to quit.


          • #65
            Thanks yarmark, I have indeed said the same about similar recent fundraisers (including those sponsored by Chainbangerz) for others going to Worlds/USDGC who IMHO were likewise not full contributors. The reason this was more vocal is because of the undeserved criticisms leveled in the OP.

            See ya on the course buddy
            'Weekend 4 Women':
            Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
            Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier


            • #66
              then we can agree to disagree!
              ill be on the course tryin to find my putt


              • #67
                puttsrad wow go smoke, ill give you some if your out. get your facts straight before calling people liars. i will only respond to points 7 8 9.

                7. yes, i personaly told Jessie. I made it her buisness
                8. who are you? when did we speak?
                i have told all parties envolved the exact same story. Nothing different. ask jessie what i said, ask kieth, ask aaron holley, or eric edge. get your facts correct and don't put words in my mouth. My own foot fits fine, thank you.
                9. i did NOT recieve a phone call. My name and number were blacked out for the most part.
                when was it was done? who knows... lets hope we find a solution somehow to the lost and found problem that is currently in place.

                get your own facts straight before calling others liars!


                • #68


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by yarmark View Post
                    i did NOT recieve a phone call. My name and number were blacked out for the most part.
                    when was it was done? who knows...
                    It seems possible that your name and number were blacked out before the disc was returned to Chainbangerz.

                    Someone finds the disc and claims it as their own. They lose it and it gets turned in.

                    Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.


                    • #70
                      yep. that totally could have happened. i know it happens all the time, and it will happen again.
                      i just dont appriciate others using my experience, then misquoting the facts. putsrad!!!
                      well... im just curious what story did you hear? and from whom? being that i have told many people different stories and all.


                      • #71
                        yamark -
                        Last edited by PuttsRrad; April 23rd, 2012, 09:25 PM.


                        • #72
                          you are the one that said " mark cetainly told a different story" (and what multiple stories have i told?)
                          I will not be quiet when my words and actions are misrepresented by others.
                          once again. who are you? when did we talk? i would love to know.

                          Get your facts straight before you question my integrity.

                          I have talked to multiple people on this subject. never once have i changed my story.
                          Jessie and kieth both heard the EXACT same story from me. Both have different opinions on the matter tho. hahahahah

                          What a great way to be an advocate for chainbangerz! lets preach negativity and inflate the facts. great job. way to go. keep up the good work.

                          Im glad to see that cefire can back up his thoughts, and actions, with intelligent and just reasons.

                          how about you puttsrad?
                          lets hear it!
                          You opened this can of worms


                          • #73
                            yamark -
                            Last edited by PuttsRrad; April 23rd, 2012, 09:25 PM.


                            • #74
                              PuttsRrad.... you have not put your real name in your profile. Please understand that we have made a decision to not let people post here anonymously. Please correct within 24 hours or face account suspension.
                              Your Disc Golf Forum Overlords
                              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                              ~Annika SŲrenstam


                              • #75
                                Okay Sam. Update complete.


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