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  • Appropriate Divisions -vs- Eternal Sandbaggers

    This thread makes me feel like I dont play well enough to play in any tournament. Maybe if you dont play well you should just play casually.
    #45742
    CHAIN DAMAGE

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
      ... I think it is a bit unfair that a dedicated tourney player (5 events or more) might get edged out of an A-tier by someone who has never even played a tourney. Its my opinion that new tourney players should be cutting their teeth on C tiers, then B Tiers, not on the very highest level amateur events.
      Agree 100%!

      Exhibit A (posted today in the BSF thread):
      I just paid for the Fling
      My first singles event
      , and it should be a GREAT time
      This pisses me off.
      Because they took the spot of someone, many people actually, who have been playing for a long time and earned it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by AChivers View Post
        This thread makes me feel like I dont play well enough to play in any tournament. Maybe if you dont play well you should just play casually.
        On the contrary, I think you are a good example of a player who would benefit from what Gawain & Jordan are talking about.

        I think you're competitive in MA2 if you play well, and mid-pack if you don't. But... If TDs (like me) don't offer the MA2 division you don't get the chance to play against people at your own skill level. I think we all need that close competition to not only push us to improve, but also to prevent us from getting discouraged by having to compete with someone 75 rating points higher than we are. However, If TDs only offer MA1, then you might consider signing up in MA1 because you just want to play, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

        That's one of the good things about ratings based events. You play where you play based on your rating, and all of those divisions are offered.

        The one thing I am still torn about is whether people should be allowed to "play up". While I think it should be allowed, I also think it is often used to pressure other people to play up as well, and that is unfortunate.

        JH

        PS: Yes, I do run some events that don't offer the MA2 division. I think some events are intended for higher skill level players, and I think people would appreciate those events a lot more if they had earned their way in. As of right now the PDGA does not allow TDs to prevent amateurs from registering for events based on rating. Personally, I think they should allow it in some cases, but obviously we can't let it start getting overused.

        .
        "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jeff Hemmerling View Post
          Agree 100%!

          Exhibit A (posted today in the BSF thread):
          This pisses me off.
          Because they took the spot of someone, many people actually, who have been playing for a long time and earned it.
          Hey now. you can't begrudge him for that when there's nothing saying he can't. I was pretty damned excited for my first fling too!

          It would be a different story if we had a system in place that would ease people up to that level.
          "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Matt B. View Post
            This is such BS


            Everybody knows you can't find bobsleds at garage sales. Get real Hagerty!

            stop showing off... i already said you're my favorite poster...

            "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
            Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

            Comment


            • If he's a first time BSFer AND he had one of those 830ish ratings... then I think he is exactly what part of the ratings based discussion is about.
              On the opposite end is the 970+ AM Grand Master! At that ratings he belongs in a Pro division or in MA1. Looks as though there are baggers from all over.

              Comment


              • This thread has opened my eyes
                Affer winning one ma2 tournament i moved up because i thought it was the right decision but I think I will move down to the MA2 field when it's available. I still think the gap between 935 and 970 is a huge consistency issue and most people won't ever make it even close to 970. I also have shot one 1000 rated round and rounds in the 800's but consistently my rating (918) reflects where I'm at (not my top ability) I agree that the lower rated people are just donating to the top ams and that's ok if you like doing that but I would rather those people move to there rated divisions and compete with there like rated players.
                Still kind or torn because of the sandbagger comments that will be said but kind of think it's the right thing in the long run.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by couve discer View Post
                  This thread has opened my eyes
                  Affer winning one ma2 tournament i moved up because i thought it was the right decision but I think I will move down to the MA2 field when it's available. I still think the gap between 935 and 970 is a huge consistency issue and most people won't ever make it even close to 970. I also have shot one 1000 rated round and rounds in the 800's but consistently my rating (918) reflects where I'm at (not my top ability) I agree that the lower rated people are just donating to the top ams and that's ok if you like doing that but I would rather those people move to there rated divisions and compete with there like rated players.
                  Still kind or torn because of the sandbagger comments that will be said but kind of think it's the right thing in the long run.
                  Way to go Sausage, you just talked someone else into moving down.

                  How the hell did my thread about people playing in divisions below their skill level, taking away the chance for competition from their entire fields, turn into a discussion about players playing up, and what a bad thing that supposedly is? You said it yourself, it's their own fault if they want to donate. Who cares?

                  For another example, I just found a nearly 950+rated player signed up for Advanced Master in an upcoming local non-sanctioned fundraiser! Why does a 948-rated player play in the lowest skilled division there is for 40+ year olds? What does that say to the newbie 800-rated 40-year old disc golfer? To me it says, "don't bother taking up my sport, I'll kick your ass and take your money." That's not the ambassadorial spirit that I associate with disc golfers in general, who typically welcome new players with support and encouragement.
                  Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                  Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                  Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                  Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                  Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                  Comment


                  • Maybe some of the people out there complaining about the people sandbagging should run more tournaments with the lower divisions (MA3-MA4) available and have there own divisions

                    Comment


                    • Just look at how even the field would be if people did play in there rated divisions. Looks like a better event to me more competitive competition.
                      I have only seen it in disc golf where people can choose where they want to play.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by couve discer View Post
                        Maybe some of the people out there complaining about the people sandbagging should run more tournaments with the lower divisions (MA3-MA4) available and have there own divisions
                        Anyone want to help out this poster and let him/her know how many events I have run?

                        Here is how I offered divisions for tournaments I ran: (I never ran a PDGA event, but if I did, I would make it strictly ratings-based.)

                        You make 3 choices:

                        1: Women: want to play with women only?
                        2: 40+ years old? Want to play in an age-protected division?
                        3: What skill level? We offer 4, the top level plays for cash.

                        So, the gender-protected classes are:

                        ANY GENDER (O)
                        WOMEN ONLY (F)

                        The age-protected classes are:

                        no protection (Any-age)
                        <19 (J18)
                        <16 (J15)
                        <13 (J12)
                        <10 (J9)
                        40+ (Master)
                        50+ (Grand)
                        60+ (Senior)
                        70+ (Legend)

                        And the skill classes are:

                        NOV - 3
                        INT - 2
                        ADV - 1
                        PRO (plays for cash) - P

                        You select your division by selecting one class from each section.

                        For example, if qualified, you could play:

                        Women Master Nov
                        (using the code table below, that would be: F-M-3)

                        or

                        Any-Gender J18 Adv
                        (using the code table below, that would be: (O-J18-1)

                        or

                        Any-Gender Any-Age Pro (this would be Open in the truest sense)
                        (using the code table below, that would be: O-A-P)

                        Yes, 2 genders x 9 ages x 4 skills = 72 possible divisions, but I found there are typically never more than about 7 that form. Typically there will be a minimum number of requests for that division to be formed, otherwise those players must select another division for which they qualify.

                        I will always remember when my friend Julie who barely even plays disc golf won the Ice Bowl in a hotly contested 4-woman field of Novice Master Women! Can't do that in the PDGA....

                        Code:
                        GENDER     AGE    SKILL
                        =======================
                        F         J9        3
                        O (any)   J12       2
                                  J15       1
                                  J18       P (any)
                                   M
                                   G
                                   S
                                   L
                                   A (any)
                        Last edited by TreeLove; April 18th, 2012, 06:23 PM.
                        Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                        Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                        Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                        Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                        Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                        Comment


                        • Treelove
                          Sorry if I offended you or anyone else that wasn't really directed at anyone personally just in general to the disc golf community. I know you do a ton for the sport and I had the pleasure of playing with you at the calapooia tournament and you taught me to always keep everyones score to keep from mistakes and keep people honest.
                          Sorry for the offensive response
                          Josh

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                            Hey now. you can't begrudge him for that when there's nothing saying he can't. I was pretty damned excited for my first fling too!
                            I read his/her post as saying that the BSF is their first PDGA event ever.
                            Did you get that impression? Does my rant make more sense?

                            The BSF should not be open to first-timers. I don't begrudge the player, just the policies.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jeff Hemmerling View Post
                              I read his/her post as saying that the BSF is their first PDGA event ever.
                              Did you get that impression? Does my rant make more sense?

                              The BSF should not be open to first-timers. I don't begrudge the player, just the policies.
                              Is this a thread about sandbagging and ratings based divisions, or about why new players should not get to play if you don't? How do you know this tournament won't fuel a lifetime love for the sport and we will see him out at every tournament from now forward? would that make it better? I was at the Disc-Go-Ball this weekend, and I met a fellow named Nick. He had never played in any tournament before and threw 974-949-923, he was on the lead card for MA1 the entire tournament. I think just because someone hasn't played in tournaments should have nothing to do with which tournaments they are allowed to play. As long as qualifiers aren't set up.
                              Fear of any kind is the number one enemy of all golfers regardless of ball-striking and shot-making capabilities.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mowens404 View Post
                                Is this a thread about sandbagging and ratings based divisions, or about why new players should not get to play if you don't? How do you know this tournament won't fuel a lifetime love for the sport and we will see him out at every tournament from now forward? would that make it better? I was at the Disc-Go-Ball this weekend, and I met a fellow named Nick. He had never played in any tournament before and threw 974-949-923, he was on the lead card for MA1 the entire tournament. I think just because someone hasn't played in tournaments should have nothing to do with which tournaments they are allowed to play. As long as qualifiers aren't set up.
                                Matthew,

                                In post #152 someone asked about players "playing up" instead of "bagging".
                                I believe that is what caused some minor thread drift.

                                I simply mentioned that the player who is "playing up" is potentially taking a spot away from a "qualified" player. MA1 is a good example.

                                From my perspective, it is not about how many tournaments you've played, it's about playing in the "correct" division.
                                Based on his results, Nick was playing in correct division at his first event in Bend.

                                Comment

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