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  • Disrespectful player behavior

    I was excited to hear that the NW dubs event was a big hit this weekend and that Sheila pulled it all together in my absence - thanks soooo much!

    But, I was alerted to a very disappointing event that took place during signups. The tourney went beyond the 72 player capacity by a team (or two?) and Sheila had to turn away late signups. Josh Morris was one of these.

    Instead of understanding the limits of the TD and respecting her generous donation of time and energy to this event (not to mention to the fundraiser), he threw a temper-tantrum and blamed her for his lateness.

    In case showing up early is not your idea of common sense, it was also clearly outlined here in advance:

    IMPORTANT: Registration will be done on Saturday morning on a first come first serve basis. Maximum of 72 players (36 teams)! There will be NO 6somes.
    I know that Sheila is pretty disappointed by this and probably too generous in letting this go unmentioned, but it is a recurrent theme amongst golfers that we think it is OK to disrespect a TD and expect them to mother us.

    And guess what? Sheila doesn't really want to run future events. I know that I have dealt with some form of this childishness at many of the events I've run and it really gets to you. You volunteer your time and effort towards an event and receive criticism by those who have contributed nothing on their own.

    If you want to know why we (Washington) have defensive TD's...
    If you want to know why our TD's burn out...
    If you want to know why we are systematically short on volunteers...

    Look no further than the behavior displayed towards a dedicated volunteer on Saturday

    Rant over
    Last edited by cefire; October 3rd, 2011, 04:21 PM.
    'Weekend 4 Women':
    Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
    Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

  • #2
    Ah humans...and hey I see it every time someone who has been playing this game for awhile cutting on courses...these folks should know better, but they have that feeling of entitlement...and of course if I call them on it, I am somehow at fault...what for pointing what a tool your behavior is? PC=the downfall of manners in favor of entitlement...cause we wouldn't want to hurt your feelings by pointing out your obvious lack of social skills.

    This crap is part of the reason I play in very few tournaments, fewer chances to be exposed to this abhorrent behavior. Sorry to hear WA looses another TD...damn shame
    educate your thinking

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cefire View Post
      I was excited to hear that the NW dubs event was a big hit this weekend and that Sheila pulled it all together in my absence - thanks soooo much!

      But, I was alerted to a very disappointing event that took place during signups. The tourney went beyond the 72 player capacity by a team (or two?) and Sheila had to turn away late signups. Josh Morris was one of these.

      Instead of understanding the limits of the TD and respecting her generous donation of time and energy to this event (not to mention to the fundraiser), he threw a temper-tantrum and blamed her for his lateness.

      In case showing up early is not your idea of common sense, it was also clearly outlined here in advance:



      I know that Sheila is pretty disappointed by this and probably too generous in letting this go unmentioned, but it is a recurrent theme amongst golfers that we think it is OK to disrespect a TD and expect them to mother us.

      And guess what? Sheila doesn't really want to run future events. I know that I have dealt with some form of this childishness at many of the events I've run and it really gets to you. You volunteer your time and effort towards an event and receive criticism by those who have contributed nothing on their own.

      If you want to know why we (Washington) have defensive TD's...
      If you want to know why our TD's burn out...
      If you want to know why we are systematically short on volunteers...

      Look no further than the behavior displayed towards a dedicated volunteer on Saturday

      Rant over
      This is terrible. We need more good TDs not less!

      This ranks right up there with an incident this year where one of the female pros at the BSF started yelling at one of our volunteers for walking by (well away from the green) when she was putting. I am at the point where if I hear about any player yelling at one of our volunteers I will simply include a written complaint in the official TD report and let the PDGA disciplinary committee deal with them.

      Ugh.
      "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

      Comment


      • #4
        I want to offer a different perspective...

        DGOD ran a tournament at Portland Meadows Golf Course yesterday. As I am settling with the guy for fees, he adds an aside and says, "Ya know... this is not something we're used to. We're used to dealing with seniors who want everything and want it now. While there are a lot of kids here, we've found them to be incredibly polite and respectful. We'd go so far as to call them wonderful."

        I know... I was blown away, too.

        I am sorry for Sheila's experience but we shouldn't let one person be the "normal" disc golfer. She did make a lot of people happy that day.
        ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
        ~Annika SŲrenstam

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          I want to offer a different perspective...

          DGOD ran a tournament at Portland Meadows Golf Course yesterday. As I am settling with the guy for fees, he adds an aside and says, "Ya know... this is not something we're used to. We're used to dealing with seniors who want everything and want it now. While there are a lot of kids here, we've found them to be incredibly polite and respectful. We'd go so far as to call them wonderful."

          I know... I was blown away, too.

          I am sorry for Sheila's experience but we shouldn't let one person be the "normal" disc golfer. She did make a lot of people happy that day.
          Good point Sam, this is certainly not the normal golfer! At the same time, it happens more than IMO is acceptable.
          'Weekend 4 Women':
          Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
          Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

          Comment


          • #6
            One time is unacceptable. Were we to have someone who was that disrespectful, we would probably take him or her aside and let them know that that type of behavior is not OK and that further outbursts of this type will result in them not being welcomed back.
            ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
            ~Annika SŲrenstam

            Comment


            • #7
              Hell... we have World Champions and Innova-sponsored players who act like this...

              First I'd like to say thanks to everyone for the support and accolades I recieved [at the tournament and on-line] during this years WORLDS. I played some amazing golf and I'm happy with my results. I'd also like to thank the PDGA and Augusta for everything they did to make this Championship such a success. And! I'd like to thank my Sponsor INNOVA [we weren't given any time to say thanks at the awards].

              BUT! I guess it's time to get down to the NITTY GRITTY. And I mean GRITTY!

              I just went through this post and saw the disdain most players are showing for Brad's bad behavior during this years PRO WORLDS. I played rounds 2,3,4,6,7 and the FINALS with him and I personally know everything he said and did. I rarely post on this discussion page; but, felt this is one time I must post! The post I have chosen to reply to...says it all!

              The REAL issue is (and I have seen this at many events): Why are people not willing to "man up" and warn players early or back up others that do??

              This is so true. I have played many rounds going back to 1998 with Brad Hammock and have warned him in almost every one of these tournaments and rounds to quit the SH%$ talking and innuendo.

              Not once have I been backed up by someone in the group. This is exactly what happened again this year at the WORLDS. I told Brad repeatedly to stop making discourteous comments during our rounds. In most cases he came back with name calling and derogatory remarks. The other players in the group never once said anything; they just let him SPEW.

              In rd. 3 he got in a pile of branches and asked "What do I do with this?" I told him mark it in the pile and play it...and that he couldn't move any of it because it was in front of his lie. He said a few profane words, marked his shot, putted and missed, and then started kicking the pile down to WOOD CHIPS. I told him to stop. No one else in the group said a word to him. I could clearly see they were as uncomfortable about his tantrum as I was...but they didn't say anything. The round went on with more WAAA BABY stuff from Brad till we got to hole 16 where the GATES OF HELL opened up. Brad 5'd the hole and as we were walking to 17's tee he started KARATE kicking the rock cairn/Chinook Chuk. He didn't accidentally run into the thing...he kicked and kicked on it till every rock was off the man-hole cover it had been erected on. Once again I told him to stop it and that he been warned already. And, once again neither of the others in my group said a thing. The second card [waiting on hole 17's tee] jumped in with condemning comments about his actions. He insulted them and me and showed no remorse of any kind for what he did. Again, not one word from the others on the LEADER CARD!

              As the 2nd group walked away Brad said some pretty insensitive things about one of the players. This time I told Brad "You've been warned...now you're getting a stroke"! He tore into me for 5 minutes while we waited on the tee box. ONCE AGAIN NOTHING WAS SAID BY ANY OF THE OTHERS IN OUR GROUP!

              Hole 17 was a complete fiasco with the BRAD calling us #$*&$! or #$*&$! many times including other taunting verbiage. I told him to stop it and that "I'll go get a T.D. if he doesn't"; and the others in the group [NOTHING]! It was at this point that I talked to the guys in the group and said "You're going to regret letting him act like this when this thing is over."

              Hole 18 was even worse...Brad wouldn't even shake/high 5 me or Dean's hands. THE ANGST LEVEL WAS UNBEARABLY HIGH! We walked down the fairway listening to the P word [AT LEAST 30 TIMES]. Again I told Brad to stop it and I think ya'll know what the other guys on the card said. YEP! NOTHING! I was shaking mad and ended up missing a 20 footer...that rolled away...and I ended up a BOGIEING to finish the round.

              This sort of thing went on---every second of every round. Snide little remarks were used by Brad on almost every hole. If someone asked to putt out he answer with "WHAT-EVER".
              If someone got a good kick he'd spout "GOD. YOU'RE LUCKY; YOU'RE SO F$%#ING LUCKY"!

              In the sport of disc golf I rarely come across anyone who is hard to get along with. Most people cheer on each other, say things like "SNEAK" when someone's disc is heading toward a tree or bush, congratulate each other for good shots, treat each other with dignity and respect, show sympathy when another player gets a bad kick, high 5 good throws and putts and in general act like good sports.

              Rarely does someone come along in this sport that is contemptible, despiteful, belligerant and PURE EVIL as is the case with Brad Hammock.

              The problem we have here is that we are asked to POLICE ourselves. And it's the rule...you must by the rules call someone for a violation or you're violating the rules. In doing this we the players put our own mental state and focus at risk of being sundered. But, if we don't do it we put ourselves at the same risk by having to play with so much anxiety.

              After the tournament was over and the awards were handed out; a couple of the top finishers and I were talking and they were mad that he'd won, that he'd taken us out of our games with his BULLYING and that they were going to write some letters.

              I told them "What are you talking about...it's too late for that now." I said to the guys "He never even recieved an official warning or penalty. WHY! Because you didn't back me up when he started acting like a 5 year old way back at the beginning of the event. I told them ya'll enabled him to do what he did." I then said remember what I said way back in the 3rd round: You're going to regret letting him act like this when this thing is over."

              This is a lesson to all the disc golfers at every level...disc golf rules are rerived from ball golf rules. And the #1 rule is courtesy. You can beat your self up [which I know I'm guilty of occassionally] but you can't let someone else beat you up menatally or physically. If you do and the rest of the group lets it happened to them too...it's no one's fault but your own. And like the other quote from this thread ("Having people refuse to back up a warning is even more ridiculous.")

              IT IS RIDICULOUS!

              -Joel Kelly PDGA #9152
              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
              ~Annika SŲrenstam

              Comment


              • #8
                interesting read, sam.

                what i got out of it is "don't be an a**hole" and for heaven's sake, if someone has the balls to call a violation or penalty on your card back them the f*ck up, people... i think this is really important mostly because i ran into it down at worlds and was sort of disillusioned... not a violation but miscounting strokes... really wished the gals on my card would've backed me up and was surprised that they did not...

                anyway, interesting and thought provoking... thanks for posting.
                "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
                Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sam View Post
                  Hell... we have World Champions and Innova-sponsored players who act like this...
                  Big Deal.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike G View Post
                    Big Deal.
                    Thank you for that insightful opinion piece.

                    You can try to trivialize the issue if you want, but for those of us who actually play a lot of tourneys it is a big deal. We're supposed to police our fellow players, but if we can't get any support from other players on our card then we're effectively beating our head against the wall. During a tournament round if someone breaks the rules or starts acting like an ass, we ALL need to step up and call them on it. Obviously they'll be a bit upset, which is why I would still suggest being polite about it, but if we don't speak up nothing will ever be "fixed".
                    "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That is a shame. Sheila went above and beyond trying to put this tournament together and her selflessness was apparent. She was very clear about the rules and ran a clean and organized event. She, along with Andrew, have been amazing with their leadership and TD skills, bringing us many wonderful tournaments annually. I will miss their professionalism and ability to bring unique tournaments to the Pac NW!
                      "What's in the bag", pdga #37977, dgcr #356, **Team Chainbanger'z**


                      You are never really playing an opponent. You are playing yourself, your own highest standards, and when you reach your limits, that is real joy.
                      -- Arthur Ashe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But, I was alerted to a very disappointing event that took place during signups. The tourney went beyond the 72 player capacity by a team (or two?) and Sheila had to turn away late signups. Josh Morris was one of these.
                        Looked up Josh Morris on the internet. He's really young and immature. But, no one disrespect's Sheila and gets away with it! Okay?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Disappointed

                          I am disappointed that the the TD is so upset by this that we lost her.

                          I am disappointed that the player was actually named.

                          I am disappointed that this controversy is overshadowing an otherwise very well run and APPERICATED event

                          Josh is in his early 20's and by his own admission a very religious person. I have known Josh and his family since 2005. Keeping this in mind clearly (and I was standing right there) he was more frustrated then belligerent. A sentiment expressed by many who plan on playing and then something happens to change that. From taking a wrong turn to driving only to find out the event was canceled can be very frustrating indeed.
                          rewindb.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                            I am disappointed that the the TD is so upset by this that we lost her.
                            Hopefully, we haven't. I am hopeful that Shiela receives plenty of encouragment and realizes that the opionions of 72 players who enjoyed the event should far outweigh one player with sour grapes.

                            Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                            I am disappointed that the player was actually named.
                            People should not be held accountable for their actions? I disagree.

                            Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                            Josh is in his early 20's and by his own admission a very religious person.
                            What does his religion have to do with anything?

                            Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                            From taking a wrong turn to driving only to find out the event was canceled can be very frustrating indeed.
                            As far as I know, the event wasn't cancelled. Hopefull this will be an eye opening experience for Josh and he will learn that he should plan to arrive plenty early for tournamnets.

                            And hopefully he will select a new religion - one that teaches that other people should be respected, not belittled.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike G View Post
                              Big Deal.
                              As the prick was on probation for two years... I would say that it is a pretty big deal, yes. Thanks for pointing that out.
                              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                              ~Annika SŲrenstam

                              Comment

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