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  • #31
    Based on the description, I don't think we have any sandbaggers in the area.

    Think about it. Most of this discussion has been about whether or not a few guys in the AM3 field should play up to AM2. We're not talking about AM2 guys who purposely try to tank a round so they can play down - I haven't ever heard of anyone doing that.

    YOU ARE NOT SANDBAGGING if you play in the division the PDGA says you should.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jason Philips View Post
      As much as I have a long way to improve my game the last Slosh series is the only tournament I will be entering in MA3. I want to up my game and if it means losing money to better players in a division well above where I should be playing so be it. I don't think it is fair to ask anyone to play down a division where as the inverse I completely agree with. You will play where you choose to play. It definitely does not mean I have to agree with it. Again I am not trying to bag on ya (pun definitely intended) I enjoy playing rounds with ya. I'll see you out soon and we'll share a beer and conversation as we always have.
      Sorry, I know I should leave this alone but I have one more question that starts with a statement.
      PDGA events allow players to play up if they want to. If it, however, means that a player is giving up say 80 to 100 or more PDGA rating points to the card they are playing up to and if the pace and game of that player negatively affects the rest of the card, should, ethically that player enter that division in PDGA competition?
      That is not rhetorical. I really don't know the answer.
      I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for a person to play their casual rounds with better players and then play their competitive rounds against players of similar caliber to test what they have learned?
      Again, sorry to belabor this discussion, but it has me curious.
      Training to be a bagger

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      • #33
        Originally posted by smobro View Post
        Sorry, I know I should leave this alone but I have one more question that starts with a statement.
        PDGA events allow players to play up if they want to. If it, however, means that a player is giving up say 80 to 100 or more PDGA rating points to the card they are playing up to and if the pace and game of that player negatively affects the rest of the card, should, ethically that player enter that division in PDGA competition?
        That is not rhetorical. I really don't know the answer.
        I wonder if it wouldn't make sense for a person to play their casual rounds with better players and then play their competitive rounds against players of similar caliber to test what they have learned?
        Again, sorry to belabor this discussion, but it has me curious.
        So your reasoning for someone to step down is that they slow a group down? And because a player is giving up say 80 to 100 or more PDGA rating points to the card they are playing up to? Please spell out how someone is giving up the points? Are they a detriment to their card or themselves? Help me understand. If someone so chooses to compete on a tougher level I would guess it is their choice to lose ratings points. If it affects the other players rating on the card please provide the info. I am sure many people would love to read it.

        Again, I get defensive when someone keeps telling me to play down. I feel like saying "move up". I am definitely rated lower than anyone in the MA3 field but feel I want a better learning and professional experience. That is my personal opinion and what I see as an advantage to playing MA2. Can you tell me an honest advantage for playing MA3? I am not a PDGA member so round ratings aren't going to do it for me.
        "Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person. Love is an attitude, an ordination of character which determines the relatedness of the person to the whole world as a whole, not toward one object of love.Ē

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        • #34
          I hear ya dawg. I appreciate your fire. We just differ on our opinion some.

          Peace out,
          Training to be a bagger

          Comment


          • #35
            "PDGA events allow players to play up if they want to. If it, however, means that a player is giving up say 80 to 100 or more PDGA rating points to the card they are playing up to and if the pace and game of that player negatively affects the rest of the card, should, ethically that player enter that division in PDGA competition?"

            Is this an actual quote from PDGA rules? or just something you heard somebody say before? As far as I know anyone at anytime can play up. its the playing down part that is determined by your rating. I dont believe its against the rules at all for anyhone of us MA3 guys from playing MA2, MA1, or even Open. If we played open would we slow own the play of the group and piss off the other guys on the card? Possibly, depending on who is on the card. mostly cause we wouldnt be ddriving as far and have to do more throws to keep up. But, as far as i know, there is no rule against it.

            The one and only time I played pro in any event was at the Orchard Winter series the first year it was ran. did I slow that group up? nope!!! playing AM the week before, I even beat the 2 pros on my card.
            All I want for Christmas is Sharpies and Rit Dye!!!!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jason Philips View Post
              Again, I get defensive when someone keeps telling me to play down. I feel like saying "move up". I am definitely rated lower than anyone in the MA3 field but feel I want a better learning and professional experience.
              Who is telling you to play down to MA3?!? Nobody.
              Here's a newsflash. If you are rated <850 and play MA3, you are not playing down. You are playing UP. Move to AM2 and you are playing two divisions above your ability.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Trozzle!!! View Post
                "PDGA events allow players to play up if they want to. If it, however, means that a player is giving up say 80 to 100 or more PDGA rating points to the card they are playing up to and if the pace and game of that player negatively affects the rest of the card, should, ethically that player enter that division in PDGA competition?"

                Is this an actual quote from PDGA rules? or just something you heard somebody say before? As far as I know anyone at anytime can play up. its the playing down part that is determined by your rating. I dont believe its against the rules at all for anyhone of us MA3 guys from playing MA2, MA1, or even Open. If we played open would we slow own the play of the group and piss off the other guys on the card? Possibly, depending on who is on the card. mostly cause we wouldnt be ddriving as far and have to do more throws to keep up. But, as far as i know, there is no rule against it.

                The one and only time I played pro in any event was at the Orchard Winter series the first year it was ran. did I slow that group up? nope!!! playing AM the week before, I even beat the 2 pros on my card.
                I think you misunderstood the question, Troz. Kent said SHOULD you play up, not CAN you play up. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

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                • #38
                  So amazing, but this is the type of discussion is bound to occur when people link self worth to things like, money, possessions, profession, or their skills with a disc. Play and have fun, if you win or lose you're still a viable human who hopefully does more good than harm.
                  educate your thinking

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JMan View Post
                    So amazing, but this is the type of discussion is bound to occur when people link self worth to things like, money, possessions, profession, or their skills with a disc. Play and have fun, if you win or lose you're still a viable human who hopefully does more good than harm.
                    Well said.
                    Ruining everyone else's fun since 1998.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JMan View Post
                      So amazing, but this is the type of discussion is bound to occur when people link self worth to things like, money, possessions, profession, or their skills with a disc. Play and have fun, if you win or lose you're still a viable human who hopefully does more good than harm.
                      Wow, isn't there some non-violent war protest you should be attending? But that is another subject for another day.

                      If we are to believe the propaganda that we all get better much faster by playing with players who are better than us: THEN WHY DON'T WE JUST HAVE ONE BIG DIVISION FOR EVERYBODY!!!! If you believe in something then BELIEVE IT ALL THE WAY and not some stupid half steps. J-Man talks his talk and then WALKS HIS WALK! And I respect him for it, even if we have different views on some subjects. But if you are dogging someone for playing MA3 when you are playing another AM division you are talking out your ass! We should just have 1 division and the winner gets it all every time! 1 Trophy, 1 Payout and 1 Winner! That is the logical extension of your 'playing up' theory. And if your theory is correct we should all become top Pro players in NO TIME AT ALL!!

                      Scott Papa ran a great event with just such a format: Put Up or Shut Up! Maybe all PDGA tourneys should adopt this format, then we will all be a nation of super Pro players!
                      Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                      Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                      Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                      Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                      Or does here stand the last remaining man
                      To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                      No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                      Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                      Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

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                      • #41
                        Playing with better players

                        Playing up with better players can be a good way to improve your game because it helps you expand your knowledge of what can be done with a disc and necessity is a great motivator for making yourself practice and improve.

                        However, passively trying to glean knowledge/skills from mediocre golfers during a tournament round in a lower amateur division can only help you improve so much, and there is a pretty good chance you will pick up some pretty bad habits along the way. In an event you have your own score to think about and you can't freely ask questions of better player without disrupting their game/being annoying.

                        Those who rationalize playing up saying it is a small price to pay to become a better player should save themselves some money and seek out an experienced player and ask some questions or try to set up a lesson. This way your learning is direct and active and tailored to you, instead of just watching someone with bad technique throw slightly further than you for 8 straight hours.

                        I am happy to try and answer questions and critique technique if you catch me on the course or at an event. While my technique is certainly not perfect, I have played with and talked to many of todays elite players. I am always happy to help newer players in any way I can. Good luck to everybody, don't spend so much time worrying about who plays where or why they do it, let just all keep improving and have another fun ORS year.


                        P.S. I'd love to come up to Portland or and do a big group lesson or multiple smaller lessons in succession for all those who have expressed interest earlier in this thread. If you can all agree on a date and let me know that would be great.
                        Innova Champion Discs
                        Discmania
                        huk lab
                        Keen Footwear
                        Grip EQ Disc Golf Bags
                        Stimpi Ridge Disc Golf in Spokane, WA
                        Play it Again Sports Corvallis and Eugene

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                        • #42
                          That's a 1000 rated posted right there - even if it differs from my opinion on the subject. Points well made.

                          Thanks, Nate.
                          ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                          ~Annika SŲrenstam

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by smobro View Post
                            This question illustrates just why people should start playing in their PDGA assigned divisions. If we had uniform registration according to a standard, then we would rarely see the problem of small divisions in events because accepted uniform rules and regs will grow the sport quickly in all divisions.
                            If players in Oregon would register for events according to their current PDGA rating then a TD would not have to provide trophies for small divisions very often because the divisions would grow through the acceptance of uniform standards.

                            Scott this is what my comments were referring too.

                            And Sausage Fingers, I would be happy to play in a one division event. I think it would improve my game. YMMV
                            "Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person. Love is an attitude, an ordination of character which determines the relatedness of the person to the whole world as a whole, not toward one object of love.Ē

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                            • #44
                              Nate well spoken. As with Sam I don't agree 100% but I do find valid points there.
                              "Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person. Love is an attitude, an ordination of character which determines the relatedness of the person to the whole world as a whole, not toward one object of love.Ē

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                              • #45
                                just an idea I have thought of from time to time, which I am sure is not the first time anyone has mentioned this. Maybe with the PDGA rating guideline, add another guideline that those who are 10-15 points or less from the next level have a choice to either stay in their PDGA given right divison or play up. The ones who are more than 10-15 points from the next division cannot play up. There are many pros and cons with this. It would prevent 890 rated players from playing in AM1 or even pros, which I know some pros or AM1's are sick of sometimes, but it still gives them the option of playing AM2 or AM3. Just a quick thought.

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