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  • #16
    I know there are free fields and courts to play tennis, soccer and basketball on but lets define free in this situation. TAXES, plain and simple. While some course are in public parks and the state/ county's do maintain them most are not. There is really no comparison.
    Most courses and all that comes with them are payed for by the clubs that run them. I see nothing wrong with a club charging a small fee to play on a course that they fund and maintain. Nobody else lets anyone use their stuff for free without paying for it so we really need to look at this in a realistic manner. If paying a couple bucks to play will help a club/course then I see nothing wrong with it at all.

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    • #17
      The idea of pay to play disc golf is not something I would like to see become more common. The reason I have played as much disc golf as I have is because it is very cheap. It is usually played in public parks, or other underused open spaces. Unlike ball golf it doesn't need pro shops, large staffs or much maintenance. In fact unless the course is in a state park, private property or you have to take a ski lift to get to the course it should be free.

      There has been talk about making the proposed Alton Baker Park in Eugene a pay-to-play course. I want this course. I would pay to play this course...while bitching. How bout we make it like every other course and slap a couple of trash can in strategic locations, and responsible golfers pick up after the jack asses in between those holes. Natural paths will form along the holes, and within a year or so, the park will be broken in. A little mowing here and there and you have a nice course.

      The main problem I see with making a course pay to play is the enforcement. Once you make people pay you have to have a manager to manage time schedules and all that nonsense, then people to cover the shifts. Then a couple marshals to make sure no one hops in on hole 3. People to change the trashcans. It never ends! All the sudden rounds are costing $15 dollars, to cover all this crap that isn't necessary! Then there is the issue of closing times! What if I wanna glow golf!?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Ombudsman View Post
        How about work to play?
        YES!!!!
        'Weekend 4 Women':
        Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
        Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mayumoogy View Post
          The idea of pay to play disc golf is not something I would like to see become more common. The reason I have played as much disc golf as I have is because it is very cheap. It is usually played in public parks, or other underused open spaces. Unlike ball golf it doesn't need pro shops, large staffs or much maintenance. In fact unless the course is in a state park, private property or you have to take a ski lift to get to the course it should be free.

          There has been talk about making the proposed Alton Baker Park in Eugene a pay-to-play course. I want this course. I would pay to play this course...while bitching. How bout we make it like every other course and slap a couple of trash can in strategic locations, and responsible golfers pick up after the jack asses in between those holes. Natural paths will form along the holes, and within a year or so, the park will be broken in. A little mowing here and there and you have a nice course.

          The main problem I see with making a course pay to play is the enforcement. Once you make people pay you have to have a manager to manage time schedules and all that nonsense, then people to cover the shifts. Then a couple marshals to make sure no one hops in on hole 3. People to change the trashcans. It never ends! All the sudden rounds are costing $15 dollars, to cover all this crap that isn't necessary! Then there is the issue of closing times! What if I wanna glow golf!?
          Paying $5 or less for a round would be very inexpensive for green fee. There is a lot of work going on at any public course that golfers don't think about. From the diehards picking up trash every time the play to work parties. it is only a very small % of golfers working. The main problem I see is a lot of people want everything at the course just given to them.

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          • #20
            I guess I look at things a little differently. I was introduced to disc golf at Morley Field in San Diego. This is a pay to play course that is well maintained, has a pro shop, empty trash cans, multiple pin placements for every hole (course changes weekly), and is one of the most played courses on the west coast while only costing around $2.50 to play. It may not be the best course in the world, but it shows that a course can be pay to play and not cost an arm and a leg!

            And why should just the responsible golfers be subjected to clean-up duty? That is a load of crap because the majority of golfers on these type of courses are not "responsible" and most of them are just recreational and could care less what the public image of OUR sport is.

            But like I said before, this is so last week, because the only reason to bring this up is because our courses see more play than they can handle. That was the reason for mentioning it in its original thread (thanks Adam) where it made sense to talk about either reducing play by charging or at least raising money to pay for the upkeep and damages that are caused by disc golf so we have a leg to stand on when local people who aren't disc golfers complain.

            I have noticed that there are disc golf courses being replaced, part of the land being re-allocated, or holes having to be moved or taken away for some other purpose...Why do you think this is happening? Why did Terrace Creek in WA have to give up holes for a dog park that, before the disc golf course, was an unusable area that the city wanted nothing to do with? These are not rhetorical questions, I am asking for answers...If there are any.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mine all mine View Post
              I guess I look at things a little differently. I was introduced to disc golf at Morley Field in San Diego. This is a pay to play course that is well maintained, has a pro shop, empty trash cans, multiple pin placements for every hole (course changes weekly), and is one of the most played courses on the west coast while only costing around $2.50 to play. It may not be the best course in the world, but it shows that a course can be pay to play and not cost an arm and a leg!

              And why should just the responsible golfers be subjected to clean-up duty? That is a load of crap because the majority of golfers on these type of courses are not "responsible" and most of them are just recreational and could care less what the public image of OUR sport is.

              But like I said before, this is so last week, because the only reason to bring this up is because our courses see more play than they can handle. That was the reason for mentioning it in its original thread (thanks Adam) where it made sense to talk about either reducing play by charging or at least raising money to pay for the upkeep and damages that are caused by disc golf so we have a leg to stand on when local people who aren't disc golfers complain.

              I have noticed that there are disc golf courses being replaced, part of the land being re-allocated, or holes having to be moved or taken away for some other purpose...Why do you think this is happening? Why did Terrace Creek in WA have to give up holes for a dog park that, before the disc golf course, was an unusable area that the city wanted nothing to do with? These are not rhetorical questions, I am asking for answers...If there are any.
              I was playing Morley Field long before it was pay to play. Nothing about that course has improved since then. It has always had a pro shop, always been clean and always had multiple pin placements.
              Because it is located in Balboa Park, the largest municipal park in the city of San Diego, all of the maintenance is handled by the city.
              The only other thing that has to be done on the course is move the baskets once a week
              In fact, Morley Field is less playable now due to overcrowding and commercialization. Not to mention the fact that those in power there have always fought against other courses being built in San Diego so they can protect their monopoly.

              Green fees have only served one purpose there - to pad Snapper Pierson's wallet.

              I wonder how those poor saps in San Diego feel about their greens fees going to fight the growth of the sport...
              Last edited by The Ombudsman; May 12th, 2011, 04:30 AM.
              "I love it when a plan comes together" -John 'Hannibal' Smith

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              • #22
                I wonder how those poor saps in San Diego feel about their greens fees going to fight the growth of the sport...[/QUOTE]

                I think green fees are part of the growth of the sport. Not for every course, but for most well groomed, well equipped courses. Disc golf is always going to lose when we come up against any other leisure activity. Why do you think that is?

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                • #23
                  I'm dropping $18K (over one and a half times my annual income) for a new tractor today or tomorrow to keep free golf (don't forget the tip jar) at Club Mud. I guess that says where I stand on the subject. And yeah, I work for my golf. So it's a little bit rustic here.

                  Disc golf: long may is stay small and free!

                  Will we look back years from now at the good old days?
                  The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                  ...but it plays one on TV.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mine all mine View Post
                    I have noticed that there are disc golf courses being replaced, part of the land being re-allocated, or holes having to be moved or taken away for some other purpose...Why do you think this is happening? Why did Terrace Creek in WA have to give up holes for a dog park that, before the disc golf course, was an unusable area that the city wanted nothing to do with? These are not rhetorical questions, I am asking for answers...If there are any.
                    Terrace is a good example. There was a period when not only were holes being taken out for the dog park, but people were pushing to cut it down to a 9 hole layout, or even taking it out completely. One of the chief arguments was that disc golf did nothing to make money for the city, while at the same time brought in litter and environmental damage. Fortunately the course was able to stay in the ground, but it was apparent that the city viewed disc golfers as second class citizens.

                    Originally posted by The Ombudsman
                    I was playing Morley Field long before it was pay to play. Nothing about that course has improved since then. It has always had a pro shop, always been clean and always had multiple pin placements.
                    Because it is located in Balboa Park, the largest municipal park in the city of San Diego, all of the maintenance is handled by the city.
                    The only other thing that has to be done on the course is move the baskets once a week
                    In fact, Morley Field is less playable now due to overcrowding and commercialization. Not to mention the fact that those in power there have always fought against other courses being built in San Diego so they can protect their monopoly.

                    Green fees have only served one purpose there - to pad Snapper Pierson's wallet.

                    I wonder how those poor saps in San Diego feel about their greens fees going to fight the growth of the sport...
                    I've only played Morley once, but my impression was largely the same--it was obvious that the place was popular and doing well, but it seemed like so much more could have been done to make it a better course. Morley is an exception though, it's the sole course in a huge metropolitan area, so it doesn't need to be any better. There are plenty of other examples of pay-to-play courses that have worked out great though.

                    It's a false dichotomy to assume that if pay-to-play becomes more popular that all courses will be pay-to-play. Pay-to-play would just be another option for people. Like with the examples of other sports earlier in the thread, if you went to your local park to play tennis but all the courts were filled, you'd have the option to pay a premium to play at a court that was open. It would be great to have that kind of option in disc golf. Don't fee like paying a fee? Fine, you can still play in an overcrowded multi-use park, with litter, gang tags, kids playing in the fairway, organic land mines, and groups of 12 with a rolling cooler and 1 (found) disc each. Me, I'd gladly pay a fee for play in a nice course exclusive to disc golf and "real" disc golfers
                    Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
                      I'm dropping $18K (over one and a half times my annual income) for a new tractor today or tomorrow to keep free golf (don't forget the tip jar) at Club Mud. I guess that says where I stand on the subject. And yeah, I work for my golf. So it's a little bit rustic here.

                      Disc golf: long may is stay small and free!

                      Will we look back years from now at the good old days?
                      Bob, you know how much I love the Mud, and all the work you put into it. It's awesome that you keep it free and I salute you for that (and I'll continue to feed the tip jar). The Mud is fortunate though, in that it doesn't face the same kind of issues that urban, public courses do.
                      Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tim View Post
                        ...it doesn't face the same kind of issues that urban, public courses do.
                        Yeah, or I might have to carry a gun. It's great that we are far enough out of the way that most of those who come here are the kind of people who come to golf. Most of the homeless who wind up out here are dumped kitty cats.
                        The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                        ...but it plays one on TV.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I guess I dream of a world where generosity wins out against selfishness. Wherever we stand, economically, this simple choice is what either enables, or eliminates, freedom. Telling those who could not pay that they must, or those who can pay, telling those who can't, "get out of my way," comes to the basic truth about what freedom really is. The ideology of compelling generosity has failed. Institutional selfishness is having its day now. We are seeing how that works in places like Libya and Syria, while it boils below the surface here. We must eventually be honest enough with ourselves to make the right choices as a culture. Can we find that enlightened self interest?

                          Anyway, something to think about.
                          The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                          ...but it plays one on TV.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tim View Post
                            It's a false dichotomy to assume that if pay-to-play becomes more popular that all courses will be pay-to-play. Pay-to-play would just be another option for people. Like with the examples of other sports earlier in the thread, if you went to your local park to play tennis but all the courts were filled, you'd have the option to pay a premium to play at a court that was open. It would be great to have that kind of option in disc golf. Don't fee like paying a fee? Fine, you can still play in an overcrowded multi-use park, with litter, gang tags, kids playing in the fairway, organic land mines, and groups of 12 with a rolling cooler and 1 (found) disc each. Me, I'd gladly pay a fee for play in a nice course exclusive to disc golf and "real" disc golfers
                            Ditto! And this same false dichotomy gets trotted out every single time this topic comes up. I would GLADLY AND HAPPILY pay a few hundred bucks a year or more to play a private, well-maintained, interesting and challenging course. It's rare these days that I get through a round at Dexter without getting pissed off at large groups of littering, discourteous, drunk dipshits hollering at their multiple off leash dogs. A nice afternoon in the Spring? Forget it! Every damn yahoo yokel chucker and their beer-in-hand while they throw friends in the area converges on the course. I pull in at 8:30 am on a Sunday now and the course is already half full, but at least it's other golfers trying to avoid the peak time dipshits.

                            Ok, so I'm grouchy. SO? There's only so much park space to go around, and in communities like Eugene there wasn't enough to begin with. Demand is far outstripping the supply of disc golf courses in many communities and the inevitable results are obvious - just set a Google News alert or add a section for "Disc Golf" and check it every day. Here's roughly what you will see on an almost daily basis: two or more stories about courses being installed or considered, two or more stories about courses with problems like erosion, overuse, or other issues causing removal or discussion of removal, one or two tournament or local disc golfer stories, and an occassional story about a PDGA pro with 78 pounds of pot and a leadfoot (j/k) ((not really)).

                            So why not encourage and hope for pay to play? It's obvious that the demand for more disc golf is there, and it's obvious that there will always be demand for free courses on public land. Those of us who want to and can afford to spend a little more to do this thing that we've made our number one activity and hobby can choose to support a pay to play course and relieve some of the burden on overcrowded public courses. To think that the advent of succesful pay-to-play courses will cause every public parks department to want to charge a fee is just silly. The economy sucks, public agencies (and golfers, I know) are broke, and nothing is free anymore.
                            Last edited by Matt B.; May 12th, 2011, 09:03 AM.

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                            • #29
                              I think this all started with someone complaining about disc golfers. This kind of thing will happen when you don't have a disc golf course. We do have some. And you pay a little to play most of them. Get the course out of the middle of the park. Keeping the fee to $5.00 or under should not be that big a problem. If I paid for gas it would cost me more than that just to get to one. Most of the problem I see at Wortman is with the people who rarely play and younger people who just don't seem to care. Same here as with some other courses. we took the bums and utter disgustingness out of the park. We get no physical help from the park but they do have our backs when people complain. They also donate materials. Thankfully our city likes disc golf. I could see them charging fee if they had to do all the work I do in the park. Countless hours all year long. Paying a little bit for a maintained disc golf only park or area of a park is fine by me.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Adam Schneider View Post
                                Sounds like maybe we've got it pretty good down here in Portland, with free tennis courts and soccer fields in every neighborhood. God bless property taxes.
                                Hopefully I'm not the only one who notices the contradiction in the above statement. According to this logic my police and fire protection are free too.

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