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  • PARS

    A short discussion came up at the CSI this weekend that prompted the best reason I had heard for changing par on holes.

    Player A who is starting on hole 1 at sea tac is running late and misses the hole. They take a 7 on a 250ft birdie hole.

    Player B who is starting on hole 18 is also running late and misses the hole. They get a 7 on a hole that a 4 is more likely than a 3 and a 5 or 6 is common.

    According to the competition manual section 1.5;

    If a player is not present to throw when it
    is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown after the 30 seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole.

    The above example does not punish player B as harshly as player A for the same crime.

    This is the best reason I have heard for adjusting pars.

    ***yes, these players should have been on time to begin with and they wouldnt have to deal with the penalty.***
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  • #2
    This is in fact the only "official" reason for setting pars. There are other reasons of course but this is the official one.

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    • #3
      Listen to my brief interview with Dave Feldberg at the CSI. I asked him what he thought about par 54 at the Tac. The situation above happened to a guy in my group last year at the Jet Wash he came back late from lunch and was taking 7's on 13, 14, 15. Either way this is a dead horse that has been badly beaten. I still agree with Dave though... http://www.rewindb.com/audio/3.26.11 it comes in around 29 minutes.. Peace!
      www.rewindb.com

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CMC206 View Post
        Listen to my brief interview with Dave Feldberg at the CSI. I asked him what he thought about par 54 at the Tac. The situation above happened to a guy in my group last year at the Jet Wash he came back late from lunch and was taking 7's on 13, 14, 15. Either way this is a dead horse that has been badly beaten. I still agree with Dave though... http://www.rewindb.com/audio/3.26.11 it comes in around 29 minutes.. Peace!
        Oh my goodness I agree with Dave, now I'm starting to question myself. "Washington Block" sounds about right. This subject exhausts me.
        Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

        ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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        • #5
          Does it really matter? I like the challenge of trying to get par at seatac.........i have shot 54 twice, but never have i shot under and that would be very cool. I am in no way against changing the pars, but the fact remains that it has been this way for a long time and it would just be weird to play it any differently now.

          As far as taking a seven on hole 1 compared to hole 16 if you come back late from lunch.......well.........that is just the luck of the draw and makes it much more important not to be late. Some people like to start on hole 1 and others on hole 12........not everyone gets what they want unless you go to start times and every group starts on hole 1 every 7-10 minutes.

          Shelton springs has several par 4 and par 5 holes and i would not want that to change due to the fact that it was played that way from the beginning.

          Tough topic.........i guess the only solution would depend on the person running the individual event. Jub could run an event and have it par 54.........great!!! Andrew could run another event and have it par 60.........great as well!!! Like i said..........does it really matter?
          WHEN I GROW UP I WANT TO BE A SPIDER BITE.

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          • #6
            I would rather have a 7 on 18 than on 1. That matters. Even if the par is 59 or 60 the goal is still below 54. Whatever the par is at shelton the goal is still below 54. Milo, goal is below 54. No it doesn't matter unless I am penalized with a 7 on hole 1 when another player may be penalized a 7 on a hole like 18. The impact of those penalties on the field is much different also. I was +7 on the back at sea tac this weekend with 6 bogie strokes on 18 alone. I was -2 on 1. That is a difference of almost 3 strokes per round. I think that has the chance to matter.
            Last edited by REDFIVE; March 28th, 2011, 10:04 PM.
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            • #7
              All I envision when I think of this subject is... that one last dude... arguing that the world is flat.
              "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

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              • #8
                I think the key is to not show up late if you're starting on a birdie hole.
                We're at our best when it's from our hips

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by REDFIVE View Post
                  I would rather have a 7 on 18 than on 1. That matters. Even if the par is 59 or 60 the goal is still below 54. Whatever the par is at shelton the goal is still below 54. Milo, goal is below 54. No it doesn't matter unless I am penalized with a 7 on hole 1 when another player may be penalized a 7 on a hole like 18. The impact of those penalties on the field is much different also. I was +7 on the back at sea tac this weekend with 6 bogie strokes on 18 alone. I was -2 on 1. That is a difference of almost 3 strokes per round. I think that has the chance to matter.

                  Not sure what you mean by the "goal is below 54" The skill it takes to get a 54 on any of those courses is vastly different than a regular par 54 course. 54 at Seatac is about a 1030 rated round, while 54 at Milo and Shelton Springs is even higher 1045ish.

                  Seatac SSA 57-58
                  Milo SSA 58-59
                  Shelton Springs 57-60 (Still a few changes being made to this course)

                  I would say the "goal" at any course is to shoot as low as possible, not sure that's always going to be the same number though.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                    All I envision when I think of this subject is... that one last dude... arguing that the world is flat.
                    Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

                    ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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                    • #11
                      The rule is stupid! How can you card scores for holes that you never played? I think it should be a 2 stroke penalty if you make it to your first hole BEFORE the group has finished on the hole. After that it should be a Disqualification!
                      It's just not that hard to be at your tee on time...like everyone else!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                        All I envision when I think of this subject is... that one last dude... arguing that the world is flat.

                        It's not?
                        According to Mazza I have a sissy arm

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SPIDER-DAN View Post
                          Does it really matter?
                          I think it matters. I think TDs should think it matters too. The one time I went to world's, I was dumb enough to rely on an unfamiliar hotel alarm clock. I missed holes on my first round. I was given an 8 on one hole that was par 4 (no trees, 400 feet w/ slight uphill). When I played that hole again two days later, my drive was only about 50 feet out. I was mad about that 8. We all know how much one stroke can matter in a tournament. So let's get the pars correct so that the rules can be applied in a fair manner to all (not just the luck of the draw).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Altophish View Post
                            The rule is stupid! How can you card scores for holes that you never played? I think it should be a 2 stroke penalty if you make it to your first hole BEFORE the group has finished on the hole. After that it should be a Disqualification!
                            It's just not that hard to be at your tee on time...like everyone else!
                            DQ for missing a hole? I'd much rather get to play the tournament I paid for with some 7's on my card than get DQ'ed because of any number of legitimate reasons for being late.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with Matt B..
                              www.rewindb.com

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