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  • #16
    This is what, I think, many Ams and possibly some Pros look at when considering tournaments.
    After playing in a tournament, I ask myself two questions
    1: Did I have a good time?
    2: Did I get my money's worth (i.e. players pack value, added extras like food and entertainment)?
    Travel and schedule are of course a large part of this factor as I will travel further if I answered yes to both then if I only answered yes to one.
    If I answer yes to both, then I will definitely be back for your next tournament.
    If I answer yes to the first, but no to the second, then your tournament will be higher on my when considering my tournament options.
    If I answer no to the first, but yes to the second, then your tournament will be lower on my list when considering my tournament options.
    Finally, if it is no to both, then count me out for the next tournament you run.
    Last edited by Uhlman; September 25th, 2010, 07:02 AM.
    Throw What You Know.
    "Gravity, she's a harsh mistress." -The Tick
    PDGA# 45989

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    • #17
      First: Script is what a actor uses for direction and content
      What we are taking about is Scrip

      This is a timeless and well argued point in our community. I have run "Am II trophy only" several times now and have discovered that bagging goes down when the payout goes down (value not number) I wonder why?

      Gone are the days of ..."2nd Place, here is your stack of blue Rocs. and the winner gets this stack of blue sharks, If you want something different Trade amongst yourselves." and the infamous Vargas PP of Towel and a mini.

      Retail vs. Wholesale Again a tried and true argument. Jeff's model eliminates any speculation on what to buy an how many, NA takes care of that for him. When you say "bump up" do you mean more value for your dollar $1 in = $1.50 out kinda thing or does NA lower their wholesale price to the TD.

      Value of Sponsorship goods and/or services
      This is a tricky subject. Most sponsors believe they are donating something of value, but really it's not as big of a commitment as it might seem. That $10 coffee card from the local barista only has lasting value to the local who could use it more then once. TD's who try and equate this card with actual value (Oh by the way all the cards actually need to be used for the sponsor to pony up again) are just asking to be blasted.

      Ever wonder when DG will change in regards to this issue?
      NEVER!
      There is too much money changing hands from the manufacturer/ TD or Manufacturer/ Brick and mortar.

      What we really need is a constructive way to evaluate events. Players can vent and TD's gain valuable info all of which make our sport better.
      rewindb.com

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      • #18
        Agreed Jub!

        I know we have a site for course reviews... anybody thought of including a location for tourney reviews??

        I played a tourney in Seattle and one in Portland this summer and they were amazing compared to some of the other's I have been to.
        They weren't quite as friendly to the traveling golfer but the players and the TD's were amazing. I will be visiting them both again next year, given the chance.
        When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

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        • #19
          Scrip
          Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

          ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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          • #20
            Well done Dan, you approached this touchy subject with tact and reason.

            I remember getting frustrated with AM payout a couple times when I played MA1. Different TD's take different approaches to the AM/Pro payout balance. Over time, I figured out which ones tipped the scales one way or the other. It's their event and they have the right to do so. As a player, I have the right to choose which events I participate in. (capitalism at work)

            My thoughts on the subject are right in line with Mr. Carpenter's and Hagerty's. I think that is a fair way to approach the balance without diminishing the player's motivation to move up.

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            • #21
              I am an am player. I rarely play tournaments other than weeklies and such. Mainly because the entry fees are disproportionately high versus going out to the park and playing golf for the cost of a parking pass.

              If you were to ask someone like me what it would take to get me out for more tournament competition here is the answer you'd get:

              I'd love to test my game competitively vs other am players for around 20 bucks or less. I don't need t-shirts or player's pack discs or whatever, and I doubt I need to kick in an extra 10 bucks to fund the PDGA to find out if I am a better golfer that day than the next am. Eliminate the cheesy giveaway items and extras and eliminate the need to pay for them with higher entry fees. Use whatever percentage of the entry fees necessary to keep the event financially viable for the organization running it, and whatever is left over can be distributed as scrip for prizes. It would be hard to complain about payouts if the cost to play is severely reduced. It seems like a lower price point for entry would increase accessibility and lead to more interest and bigger fields as well.

              Summary: Lower entry fees for ams. No player's packs or other superfluousness to drive up cost.

              This seems so simple to me, and yet there are so many strong and conflicting opinions about it. I must be missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere since I am mostly out of the loop on the details of tournament organization, so forgive me if this sounds naive. Just trying to shed light on another point of view I haven't seen expressed.

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              • #22
                It sounds like you just want a weekly.

                The $10 PDGA fee for non members helps pay for insurance and things like that.

                Most people that I talk to want something to remember a tournament with, that's what player packs are for.

                Also, part of the reason entry fees can be higher is because the TD has reserved the park, that's not cheap.

                As far as payouts go, I think whoever wins or places well in their division should be rewarded and not just get "whatever is left over".

                But that's just my opinion.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Eric Olson View Post
                  I am an am player. I rarely play tournaments other than weeklies and such. Mainly because the entry fees are disproportionately high versus going out to the park and playing golf for the cost of a parking pass.

                  If you were to ask someone like me what it would take to get me out for more tournament competition here is the answer you'd get:

                  I'd love to test my game competitively vs other am players for around 20 bucks or less. I don't need t-shirts or player's pack discs or whatever, and I doubt I need to kick in an extra 10 bucks to fund the PDGA to find out if I am a better golfer that day than the next am. Eliminate the cheesy giveaway items and extras and eliminate the need to pay for them with higher entry fees. Use whatever percentage of the entry fees necessary to keep the event financially viable for the organization running it, and whatever is left over can be distributed as scrip for prizes. It would be hard to complain about payouts if the cost to play is severely reduced. It seems like a lower price point for entry would increase accessibility and lead to more interest and bigger fields as well.

                  Summary: Lower entry fees for ams. No player's packs or other superfluousness to drive up cost.

                  This seems so simple to me, and yet there are so many strong and conflicting opinions about it. I must be missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere since I am mostly out of the loop on the details of tournament organization, so forgive me if this sounds naive. Just trying to shed light on another point of view I haven't seen expressed.
                  I would have to agree with you...this was the norm....BACK IN THE DAY . You could wake up on Saturday and remember there is a tourney in Eugene...drive down and sign-up for 20-25 bucks and play a one day tourney (two rounds) and go home. I do miss those days...I can't give up my weekend for a two day tourney.

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                  • #24
                    I've always liked having some sort of souvenir from a tournament, be it a disc, shirt, whatever. I always try to have a little something to give players when I run tournaments. To illustrate what I was talking about earlier with recouping costs, here's a lesson learned the hard way from my experience:

                    Last year, I ran a casual little tournament, and thought that it'd be cool to give away pint glasses in the player pack--seemed like a good idea, everybody can use a pint glass, they're relatively inexpensive, and you don't have to worry about sizes or anything. The only issue is that you've got to order them in advance and make sure you have them in hand before the tourney. Disc golf being what it is, oftentimes players don't register until a few days before, or even the day of, so even though I wasn't sure what the final numbers would be, I ordered 72 glasses just in case (the tournament capacity).

                    I forget what the exact numbers were in the end, but I think it ended up being about 2/3 full. So, I ended up with a surplus of pint glasses. I could have reimbursed myself by taking a bigger chunk out of players' entry fees, but that didn't seem right to me. So, I ended up eating the cost. I did all the scrip with a local vendor, which did take away the headache of handling scrip and inventory on my own. But while I was handing over a fat envelope to him, I was losing money from my overhead with the glasses. Had I had an inventory of my own, I could have at least cut my losses.

                    Fortunately, as I said, the glasses were relatively inexpensive so I didn't take too big of a hit. If I had discs or t-shirts or something, then I would be in a much less pleasant situation. Still, no matter the amount, it's a bummer to devote a bunch of your time and energy to a weekend, and still come out of it in the red.

                    On a side note, I've heard of people jacking up the value of their player packs (i.e. getting a t-shirt for $6 but charging the player $15), but I don't know that I've ever seen that in reality.

                    On another side note, anybody wanna buy a pint glass for cheap?
                    Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

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