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  • Ahead of the curve! Who sets par for any course?

    Who sets par for any course? Designer? TD? Players? pDGA?


    If you ask me (and even if you don't) it's the designers decision alone not only where the holes go or how it flows but what par is!!!!!

    I heard the argument of a drive and two putts equals par. I say bull!!! You are trying to use a ball golf rational for a sport that has only about 10% the hazards of ball golf.

    Is there any fairway bunkers or sand traps on the DG course? NO!

    Do DG'rs worry about grass between the disc and their hand? NO! in ball golf they do.

    How DG is all "Lift, clean and place" but not so in ball golf. (mud does effect a balls flight)

    How much bigger is the disc/basket area then the ball/cup in ball golf?

    Disc/Basket 7" diameter disc, Basket normal basket is about 30" in diameter + the 24" the chains hang down =720 cubic inches

    Ball/Cup 2" diameter ball 4" diameter hole (and no chains hanging down) When you putt the flag comes out

    We won't even talk about swing vs throw.
    rewindb.com

  • #2
    I like the "Best achievable score plus 2" method of setting par on an individual hole.
    On the courses I have either designed or had a part in designing, it has worked out just fine.
    I have kept records of strokes taken, during tournament play, on each hole to verify my methods.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
      Who sets par for any course? Designer? TD? Players? pDGA?


      If you ask me (and even if you don't) it's the designers decision alone not only where the holes go or how it flows but what par is!!!!!

      I heard the argument of a drive and two putts equals par. I say bull!!! You are trying to use a ball golf rational for a sport that has only about 10% the hazards of ball golf.

      Is there any fairway bunkers or sand traps on the DG course? NO!

      Do DG'rs worry about grass between the disc and their hand? NO! in ball golf they do.

      How DG is all "Lift, clean and place" but not so in ball golf. (mud does effect a balls flight)

      How much bigger is the disc/basket area then the ball/cup in ball golf?

      Disc/Basket 7" diameter disc, Basket normal basket is about 30" in diameter + the 24" the chains hang down =720 cubic inches

      Ball/Cup 2" diameter ball 4" diameter hole (and no chains hanging down) When you putt the flag comes out

      We won't even talk about swing vs throw.

      I don't understand what points you are trying to make between ball golf pars and disc golf pars. Your reasoning leads to the thought that ball golf is tougher than disc golf, yet your opening question leads us to think disc golf par should be more than 3 shots per hole. It this correct? Does anybody else see where Jubner is going?
      Disc golf ruined my life.

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      • #4
        Par on course

        First of all, yes, designers and TD's should have say on PAR for a particular course or for a particular event.

        That said, I have read that a disc golf PAR should be set up such as:

        It is a PAR 3 unless otherwise posted.
        If a pro CAN reach putting circle in their drive then it is a legit par 3.

        Many holes are posted as more than PAR 3 so...
        To set par on these, as I understand, take the number of shots a pro COULD (not would) reach the circle in, then add 2.

        I find this sets most holes at a PAR 3 anyway.
        This is not a perfect system as I have seen Climo get drop in eagles (hole 12 at Winthrop) but it works for the most part.



        As for the jargon relating Ball vs. Disc Golf... Who the F*%k cares.
        If it's that big a deal, play ball golf.
        I personally find that your arguments are misplaced... Yet I am circumventing the argument and restating, who cares.
        When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

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        • #5
          By PDGA it's drives to the green plus two putts. How far a 'drive' is is open to debate I guess, but I'd say it's for the 'average' player.
          My favourite putter is my driver.

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          • #6
            By PDGA, the guideline for par is this table and it depends on the skill level a layout is designed for. http://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines

            If you aren't designing for a specific skill level, you aren't designing but just putting tees and pins in the ground.

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            • #7
              I think this is pretty smart thinking:

              http://sites.google.com/site/discgol...Home/par/CRpar
              Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

              ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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              • #8
                Essentially another way to get to the PDGA Par guide.

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                • #9
                  If you really think about it pars don't even matter, everybody else is playing the same holes with the same par.

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                  • #10
                    jub,

                    most disc golf courses dont have sand traps, but a well placed bush or area of long grass is the equevilent of a sand trap. also since you are comparing disc golf courses with ball golf, how many ball golf courses have fairways that are peppered with trees that you have to shoot though??? i would say NONE.

                    the point i am trying to make is that each has its own difficulties for the equipment you are using, and you cant try and argue that disc golf has less hazards than ball golf. disc golf has just as many hazards if not more. sure mud makes your ball fly a bit differently, but the same can be said with a disc. so in each instance you clean it off before your next stroke.

                    there are legitimate par equations out there and Chuck Kennedy posted a link for you to look at. I deffinately dont think the ultimate par for a course is up to the designer only. i think that they should include a suggested par in their design proposal, and take into account PDGA guidlines and the skill level of the players and the different tee pad placements if there are multiple tee pads.

                    I also think that your argument is misplaced here and it seems like you are just trying to stir a little crap for some reason or another. Par for a hole has to give a reasonable chance for birdie, that is the simplified basics of how to come up with a par. if you want a course that is 10,000 feet long with a par of 50 then go build your own course on your own property.
                    Team HOSER:dancing:
                    Team OLY:cheerleader:
                    Team Meteor

                    "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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                    • #11
                      I know of so many people who still think that what the par is matters on how hard the course is. I can make every hole out at Seatac a par 1 but does that make it harder? NO! I can make every hole at Seatac a par 16, now does that make it easier? NO. So why does it matter what the par is for a hole?!?!?! "Par" is essentially an easier way to keep score for you lazy hippies that could never figure out 2nd grade math. 3+4+2+... "OUCH, my head, too much thinking".
                      Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

                      ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ROC View Post
                        If you really think about it pars don't even matter, everybody else is playing the same holes with the same par.
                        Not true. Par does matter, both mentally and...

                        1.5 Practice Rounds and Tee Times

                        B. (2)

                        "...If a player is not present to throw when it is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown by then, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole..."

                        So, depending on how a par is set, someone could unfairly benefit from this rule. What if you and your ride arrived just a few minutes late to find you start on different holes with different pars. Someone gets a 7 and someone else gets an 8 or whatever, as it should be. But by the mentality of everything is a par 3, that would not happen. Something to think about.

                        The mental aspect of par has been studied and documented several times in ball golf. There is a wonderful article regarding birdie putts vs par putts of comparable difficulty. The study shows how a birdie putt is missed more often than that of a par putt (due to the added pressure and mental stress on the players behalf). Found here: Article

                        So, in my mind, par matters. I have a problem with people who say everything is par 3 in disc golf, because...its not. Just my thoughts...
                        Team DISCRAFT
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                          Who sets par for any course? Designer? TD? Players? pDGA?


                          If you ask me (and even if you don't) it's the designers decision alone not only where the holes go or how it flows but what par is!!!!!

                          I heard the argument of a drive and two putts equals par. I say bull!!! You are trying to use a ball golf rational for a sport that has only about 10% the hazards of ball golf.

                          Is there any fairway bunkers or sand traps on the DG course? NO!

                          Do DG'rs worry about grass between the disc and their hand? NO! in ball golf they do.

                          How DG is all "Lift, clean and place" but not so in ball golf. (mud does effect a balls flight)

                          How much bigger is the disc/basket area then the ball/cup in ball golf?

                          Disc/Basket 7" diameter disc, Basket normal basket is about 30" in diameter + the 24" the chains hang down =720 cubic inches

                          Ball/Cup 2" diameter ball 4" diameter hole (and no chains hanging down) When you putt the flag comes out

                          We won't even talk about swing vs throw.
                          First, I agree with Chuck, if you aren't designing for a specific skill range, than all you are doing is dropping baskets and pads in the woods...

                          That being said, a good designer should ultimately be the person to settle disputes regarding pars. However, a tournament director gets to do whatever they want (as far as their event is concerned), so if they change pars on a course for the purpose of their event so be it.

                          Oh, and your argument regarding the differneces in the sport is ridiculous. Honestly, very lame. Oh, thanks for pointing out the obvious...we don't play the same sport as ball golfers...got it.

                          Oh, actually, I do care about the grass in between my disc and my hand, and usually remove it. I've found that having a grassy grip really does a number on my accuracy.
                          Team DISCRAFT
                          NW Sign Up
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                          Paragon Disc Golf
                          Odwalla

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                          • #14
                            SSA

                            I think the PDGA took the system one step further by just adding the SSA system in 2002.
                            True, it's mostly used to rate the players but with some work you can figure out your course ratings as well... as long as sanctioned tourneys have run there.
                            http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-course?

                            My local course has a PAR of 54, standard for an 18 basket course.
                            My local course had an SSA of 49.44 in it's last tourney, meaning the average "PAR" player on a standard difficulty course would probably score a 49 or 50 on our layout.
                            Different Tees, Baskets, and weather can all effect a course difficulty.

                            Par gives everyone a goal to shoot for and use as a gauge to improve.
                            I am still lookin for my first even round and will celebrate the day.
                            (so many +1's)
                            Last edited by jshrack; July 25th, 2010, 11:28 PM. Reason: adding url
                            When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

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                            • #15
                              I can't read this without thinking of our 10th hole. It's about 450' to the turn of the narrow dogleg left, which itself usually demands a slight arc to the right from most well placed approach shots (mostly second shots). I remember when Fletch and Lowell were laying out that hole, as its my front yard. I've always argued it should be a par 4. In the 8 years it's been there, I've only witnessed one tee shot making it around the dogleg into a position for a reasonable putt (and he was a pro with a big drive). That putt was missed. I've been told it has been birdied/deuced, but I've never seen it in many thousands of attempts. It had been there about two years when, playing with Lowell, I heard him exclaim, "I finally parred it!" He's parred it many times since then, but I'm only getting it in three about once a year. Before I ripped out my pectoral muscle and lost 50 feet off my drive, I used to get the 3 in about one round in a hundred. Anyway, I'm still lobbying for it to be a par four.
                              The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                              ...but it plays one on TV.

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