Tournament Director Compensation -- Public Accounting of Tournament Fees Page Title Module
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  • #46
    Originally posted by frizbeerose View Post
    i know i wrote the lyrics wrong, but that's sorta kinda how it goes...
    I'm not sure JB wrote those lyrics either, but his is the version in my head.

    I am
    I am
    I am.......


    Looked it up: it's by Steven Van Zandt.
    The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
    ...but it plays one on TV.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
      I'm not sure JB wrote those lyrics either, but his is the version in my head.

      I am
      I am
      I am.......


      Looked it up: it's by Steven Van Zandt.


      ... yeah... that's the problem with quoting stuff whilst at work... totally inaccurate 'cause i'm too lazy to look anything up... steven van zandt, huh? any relation to towns van zandt? i just saw steve earle do his tribute to towns van zandt show and it was quite lovely... or am i making up/combining names, now? i just whacked my head a couple minutes ago on the tiny, child sized door jamb at work and maybe i'm feeling slightly delirious...

      peace,
      em
      "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
      Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

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      • #48
        ...just whacked my head a couple minutes ago on the tiny, child sized door jamb at work and maybe i'm feeling slightly delirious...
        At least you know a licensed care giver in the area now.
        The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
        ...but it plays one on TV.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
          At least you know a licensed care giver in the area now.
          hahaha!

          ... and my boss did just bring me an ice pack before she left... i'm still just seeing one computer screen, so i think i'm okay to drive home...
          "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
          Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Amber View Post
            Mystery tourney in Falls City??? Why didn't I hear about this? I would have gone and made my dad go. I am from Falls City and he still lives there and I keep telling him he would love disc.
            It was Jub's mystery event number three, check out the thread in the Washington Events section.
            Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

            ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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            • #51
              Physician, heal thyself (and then drive home).
              The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
              ...but it plays one on TV.

              Comment


              • #52
                Anybody that wants to set up a tip jar at the BSF is more than welcome to. Jeff Mittl was able to play the USDGC last year for TD-ing the Fling. The money of course had to come out of his own pocket. Lets make it possible for him to play again but paid for. (Mike as well if he can)

                Bob

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                • #53
                  I am always surprised when this issue comes up in the disc golf community how many people don't think that TDs should get paid and are pissed when they find out that they are. I know that we can play for free almost everywhere that we play and that this gives a skewed view of the value of disc golf but this is so ridiculous. How many of you know what percentage the grocery store you buy your beer from takes?

                  If you want better / more tournaments and better / more course get ready for a reality check folks... YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!! Paying TDs not only honors them for their invaluable contribution to our sport, but it will create competition and instead of having to find a whole new batch of TDs every five years in every region in America we will have folks fighting for the job.

                  I am totally excited every time I have fun at a disc golf event and then I find out that the TD made money (ussually because they are my pals or because I am helping out behind the scenes). I complained to an older wiser disc golfer once about where my entry fee had gone in an event that I had won once and he set me straight.

                  No one plays to make a living! The more people who can support themselves through disc golf the more the sport progress... need evidence, look at manufacturers. They make money, each year we get an ever widening selection of discs that are manufactured to be just what we want SO THAT WE WILL BUY THEM! The same thing will happen if we value tournaments and private courses.

                  RANT OVER

                  whew

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by SMOKIN JOE View Post
                    I disagree. I believe people trying to profit from the sport is why we lose good T.D.'s.
                    Through what mechanism is this the case?!?

                    Originally posted by SMOKIN JOE View Post
                    If you did the T.D. would make about .10 cents an hour for all the time they spend before and after a tournament. You would have to sell allot of discs, food, drinks, and other stuff to ever make a business from it.
                    Totally agree


                    Originally posted by SMOKIN JOE View Post
                    Even the P.G.A. don't pay anybody at there tournaments. It's all volunteer. It all goes to payout, administration. charity. You should want to do this to promote the sport not yourself. Open a store if you want to run a business. Unless you have a business licience you shouldn't be making money on other people anyway.
                    PGA tournament directors are indeed paid for running tournaments...just google it...not trying to run a business and for the record, I personally have never been "paid" for running a tournament - However, I think that TD's should be compensated either through reciprocation (which clearly does not happen) or otherwise (through entry fees).
                    'Weekend 4 Women':
                    Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
                    Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      Not to sound dismissive of the Pretzelbowl, as that's easily one of the best bang-for-your-buck tournaments I've ever had the pleasure of playing, but the waters get a little more muddied when you have to factor in stuff like player packs, payouts, scrip, lunch, water, artist compensation, etc. Last year, at Lakewood Open, I talked to a player who, looking at the payout breakdown, was pissed off that the Am2 payout was so much smaller than the Am1 payout. I explained to him that the Am2's got a fatter player pack and their entry fee was $10 less. Even though that makes perfect sense to most of us, he was still steamed.



                      I've thought about the mandate idea too, as that would certainly be something to incentivize TDs and bring in more new ones, and I wouldn't be opposed to it. I could see there being complications though with the option to donate the money back to the tournament, where TDs who didn't donate back could be facing the same kind of stigma they do now.

                      One idea I had that I think would be pretty cool would be to have a tip jar for TDs. If players felt the tournament was well run and are appreciative of all the work the TD has put into it, they can give a little somethin' back as a way of saying thanks. The only thing is that I think somebody not affiliated with the tournament should be the one who brings the jar. A TD setting out a tip jar for him or herself seems a little, for lack of a better word, tacky.

                      Heh, thinking about the notion of tipping, it strikes me how odd it is that we regularly tip a buck or two for a beer or coffee, but people get bent out of shape about TDs taking a cut for themselves when running a tournament is exponentially more work. Maybe its the whole psychological aspect of "donating" vs. "costing"?
                      BTW - Tim, I fully agree with you on all points here and have run more traditional PDGA events back East with scrip payout, normal entry fees/divisions, etc so I do understand the challenges with these types of events. Some of the accounting necessarily had to be best guess (and it was presented in a publically viewable manner to all club members), but I think that even some accounting is better than none.
                      'Weekend 4 Women':
                      Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
                      Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I don't understand how you could get upset about a TD making a little money. People that run tournaments know how much work is involved, refer to post #16 in this thread, Jub breaks it down pretty well. No one gets pissed off at your local guy who sells discs out of his van for making profit and he hardly has to do anything but show up with plastic and take your money!
                        Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

                        ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          To summarize what I'm trying to get across because a few people think I am rabble-rousing for accountability. Not really the case, the accountability portion of my argument comes into play if/when TDs are compensated in any form for TD'ing events.

                          I'm not saying that current accountability is low or that current TD's are irresponsible - just that compensation (which I am in favor of) should come with increases in responsibility (accounting).
                          'Weekend 4 Women':
                          Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
                          Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by cefire View Post
                            To summarize what I'm trying to get across because a few people think I am rabble-rousing for accountability. Not really the case, the accountability portion of my argument comes into play if/when TDs are compensated in any form for TD'ing events.

                            I'm not saying that current accountability is low or that current TD's are irresponsible - just that compensation (which I am in favor of) should come with increases in responsibility (accounting).
                            completely agree.
                            Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

                            ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              SillyBizz, I think you should take a cut from each Terrace Weekly. Say, 50 cents per head. That doesn't really compensate you for your time, but it would:

                              -give you some increased motivation to put on an even better event each week so more people show up
                              edit: not saying you run a crappy doubles, just talking relative terms here.

                              -spread awareness to the Terrace Weekly regulars that TDing the event really is as much of a commitment as a job

                              -probably get you enough to cover your entry fee

                              Since Terrace Weeklies are essentially non-profit, it would need to be publicly accounted for. What say you, Tim and Thor, who have run the event for extended periods of time? (Not looking for permission, just opinion)
                              Last edited by ChUcK; March 8th, 2010, 06:35 PM. Reason: don't want it to seem like I'm talking smack
                              The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

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                              • #60
                                I'm excited to hear everybody's thoughts here, been a really good discussion after getting past the initial knee-jerk reactions and into some of the meat. Some of the points brought up I hadn't thought of before - good food for more thought!

                                Also posted up the financial summary I sent along with the PDGA TD report in case anyone is interested in the PretzelBowl thread. As Tim stated earlier, its probably the most simple tournament you can think of in terms of costs and income because you don't have to deal with estimating the cash value of prizes and payout, but I hope it is still helpful in contributing to this discussion so people can decide for themselves about all this.
                                'Weekend 4 Women':
                                Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
                                Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

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