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  • #46
    I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up.

    I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

    I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

    If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

    No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.
    ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
    ~Annika SŲrenstam

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up.

      I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

      I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

      If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

      No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.



      Well Put Sam

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up.

        I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

        I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

        If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

        No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.

        I'm getting a jab from Sam about being unfair and biased?

        Sam, we are almost in agreement on this. I do agree that the way to get better is to play with better players. I agree 100%. No argument whatsoever.

        I just don't think the time to do it is at a tournament. Practice with someone better. Learn new tricks. Develop them. Then take them to a tournament and kick ass (among players of your level). When you start beating them consisitently it will be obvious when it is time to move up.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are...
          Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by jevon View Post
            Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?
            its really not true that you will only get one round with people better than you. i have had tournaments that i have played with other pro cards the whole tournament, i have also had tournaments where i am playing with some adv guys.

            and just following the pros in the gallery is TOTALLY different than playing with them in a group. while playing in the group, you see things that you just dont see from the gallery, and there is interaction between players in the group that the gallery doesnt have with the players.
            Team HOSER:dancing:
            Team OLY:cheerleader:
            Team Meteor

            "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jevon View Post
              Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?
              ^^^^^^^^^^

              What Jevon said!

              Bob

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Scott View Post
                I just don't think the time to do it is at a tournament. Practice with someone better. Learn new tricks. Develop them. Then take them to a tournament and kick ass (among players of your level). When you start beating them consisitently it will be obvious when it is time to move up.
                The thing is, you practice with someone better and you do not get the valuable tournament experience you are looking for. We are talking about being a better tournament player here. Do not practice new things in the tournament but observe and take mental notes for things you want to practice in your casual rounds and practice days.
                ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                ~Annika SŲrenstam

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by jevon View Post
                  Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do.
                  MAYBE this is the case. Many times, however, you will still be playing with people better than you if you have moved up to a high enough level. Am I suggesting Novice and Rec play pro? No. They can get some experience playing Intermediate or Advanced that they do not currently have.

                  How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?
                  Because as a part of the gallery, you are not always privy to the banter and the interaction that goes on on the card. As part of the gallery, you do not get the instant feedback from the players on shots you throw.
                  ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                  ~Annika SŲrenstam

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Are you guys talking about me

                    I have been playing for 5 years now and I played my first tournment 3 years ago (Willamette Open) I left the tournament pissed off, because I played poorly and wound up with some real douchey characters that cursed and talked and threw out of turn, etc. That was my first tournament in Intermediate and my last. I moved up to Advanced with a sub 900 rating, and I am yet to take last place, I have not come close to the top card, but I am having a blast. To the point about if you suck you will play with others that suck by the end of the tourney... that is not true if you suck in a division above your rating... then you will likely be playing with kick ass golfers who happened to have a bad round, and it helps me stay focused on forgetting the past and moving forward.

                    I had a baby this year, so I had only played in one rated tourney prior to the last ratings update, which happened to be the day after my sisters wedding in which I played like crap due to a huge hangover. Anyways my rating may be 904, but I can compete within the advanced division and almost surely have a great weekend.

                    Let people play where they like, if there wasnt some truth to the fact that the intermediate division is completly lame and the frustrating characters that it attracts; then why is every one moving up? My answer is to get away from the flamers.

                    Of course I should point out I am generalizing, not every intermediate golfer is a douche or flamer, but a majority I would say are.
                    Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TYVEK View Post
                      its really not true that you will only get one round with people better than you. i have had tournaments that i have played with other pro cards the whole tournament, i have also had tournaments where i am playing with some adv guys.

                      and just following the pros in the gallery is TOTALLY different than playing with them in a group. while playing in the group, you see things that you just dont see from the gallery, and there is interaction between players in the group that the gallery doesnt have with the players.
                      uhhhh... I dunno which tournaments you have played in, but a tournament where they actually pair you up with other divisions during the course of the tournament? WTH, that is bogus, you play with the division you signed up for period, so ofc duh, you would play with "pros" the whole tournament, but if 10 other sub900 players are in the division as well, you are really playing with those who you should be playing with in a lower and more appropriate division right?

                      I'm playing intermediate, guess i'm a douche bag... Carlitos, meet me on tee 1, let's see who's a douche and a flamer

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by CarlitosBonitos View Post
                        I have been playing for 5 years now and I played my first tournment 3 years ago (Willamette Open) I left the tournament pissed off, because I played poorly and wound up with some real douchey characters that cursed and talked and threw out of turn, etc. That was my first tournament in Intermediate and my last. I moved up to Advanced with a sub 900 rating, and I am yet to take last place, I have not come close to the top card, but I am having a blast. To the point about if you suck you will play with others that suck by the end of the tourney... that is not true if you suck in a division above your rating... then you will likely be playing with kick ass golfers who happened to have a bad round, and it helps me stay focused on forgetting the past and moving forward.

                        I had a baby this year, so I had only played in one rated tourney prior to the last ratings update, which happened to be the day after my sisters wedding in which I played like crap due to a huge hangover. Anyways my rating may be 904, but I can compete within the advanced division and almost surely have a great weekend.

                        Let people play where they like, if there wasnt some truth to the fact that the intermediate division is completly lame and the frustrating characters that it attracts; then why is every one moving up? My answer is to get away from the flamers.

                        Of course I should point out I am generalizing, not every intermediate golfer is a douche or flamer, but a majority I would say are.
                        You always play advanced? Wasn't that you on my card in the Intermediate division at Wortman earlier this year? If so, which one was I: the douche or the flamer?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by snap7times View Post
                          uhhhh... I dunno which tournaments you have played in, but a tournament where they actually pair you up with other divisions during the course of the tournament? WTH, that is bogus, you play with the division you signed up for period, so ofc duh, you would play with "pros" the whole tournament, but if 10 other sub900 players are in the division as well, you are really playing with those who you should be playing with in a lower and more appropriate division right?
                          Well, welcome to washington disc golf. even though the Rule book says that there is not supposed to be any intermixing of divisions, the TD's up here seem to think it is ok to do. I dont really like it when it happens, but it doesnt make that much of a difference to me. i would rather put my energy into try to improve my performance instead of complaining to the TD.

                          and there usually isnt anybody even close to my rating in the tournaments i play in, so just about everybody in the pro division is better than i am.

                          see my signature "team last place" i have embraced it.
                          Team HOSER:dancing:
                          Team OLY:cheerleader:
                          Team Meteor

                          "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            With out limiting the number of entries per division, there is no way to not have mixed cards. Unless of course every division just happens to be divisable by 4 or 5 depending on group size. I beleive the rules say you should "try" not to mix divisions, but sometimes you have to.
                            Last edited by olydiscgolf; August 27th, 2009, 12:39 PM.
                            A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by olydiscgolf View Post
                              With out limiting the number of entries per division, there is no way to not have mixed cards. Unless of course every division just happens to be divisable by 4 or 5 depending on group size. I beleive the rules say you should "try" not to mix divisions, but sometimes you have to.
                              Exactly. Thanks for the explanation, Chris. If divisions have to be mixed, TDs will usually try to at least keep the levels together, i.e. Open with Open Masters. But, that's just not the way it always works out, sometimes there has to be a mix and match, and you try to at least keep the level of experience together.
                              Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                personal experience

                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                Because as a part of the gallery, you are not always privy to the banter and the interaction that goes on on the card. As part of the gallery, you do not get the instant feedback from the players on shots you throw.
                                Last July I had the pleasure to observe and listen to the best golfers in the world!

                                I was at the First Class Challenge, a 3 day, 5 course NT event in Des Moines.
                                Once there was a lead card I was with them for the next 4 rounds (before the galleries started appearing), including an all day caddy for an ex world champ.
                                Leviska, Feldberg, Jenkins, Orum and Climo were a few of the fellers that I got to hang out with.
                                I've only been playing disc golf for 20 years so I knew there was still lots I could learn and these fellers showed some stuff.
                                Listening to talk of angles, lines, discs, arm speeds has greatly influenced me.
                                Is it going to make me better?
                                Not sure but at least I'll know better.

                                Ratings will probably, more than likely, eventually work to their fullest.
                                I still feel that we should know what division we should play in regardless of what numbers are next to our names.
                                We only need to have integrity and be true to ourselves.
                                He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
                                - Anonymous

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