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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    Does it matter when I sat down if I read the book beforehand?
    That would depend on the "version"..

    Original Author or some cheap re-write

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    • #17
      whoa I think i lost my eyesight.... great guys, thanks alot.. now i'm Deaf and Blind. Must've read what sam said like 50 times in disbelief. Kept saying, I can't believe my eyes... then i went blind...

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      • #18
        i loved the article, like where Sam's head is at, not so sure what Jub is trying to say, and am preparing to run a few more C tiers this year. For all of you out there, you can expect me to get paid for my time. I'm NOT volunteering, I'm offering a service, and all of you who want to take advantage of it, are going to pay for it. It will be a small price, but paid all the same. I'm sorry to see that legends of the game like Brian Mace are finding themselves empty and jaded. Mace dropped a lot of wisdom in that letter and Oregon would benefit greatly from heeding its message.

        peace,
        whip
        Team DISCRAFT
        NW Sign Up
        Gorilla Boy
        Paragon Disc Golf
        Odwalla

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        • #19
          I have known Mace for a long time and he is definitely a guy that has given way more than he has received. I agree with those of you who are saying it would be good to let the TD's know the positive things along with the negative to let them know they are appreciated. But I think that Mace is trying to make a very different point here.

          Putting on a tournament is work. The way that people really feel appreciated is thanks that crinkle and fold and pay the bills. Further, there needs to be NO disclosure of where the money is going. You don't go into McDonalds and say that you were disappointed in the burger because you weren't told how much it cost to make and who was making money off of it. No, you decide if the value you receive for the money you spent was worth you going back, and that is the power of the consumer in a capitalist society.

          My wife and I ran some big events and although we paid out in our last event over 240% of people's entry fees, we were assaulted with the "yeah, but you guy's made a ton of money in your pro shop." Man, I should hope so. For all of the sweat, toil and time we gave to running events (not counting building a course on our own land for public use) it would be nice to actually reap a reward, however small, to maybe ease the pain of the nay-sayers.

          I have said it before and will say it again. I would love to see 5 to 10 bucks, at least, of every entry go directly to the TD for their services. A two hour movie costs ten bucks. A two DAY event is a deal at ten bucks. Help keep our volunteer TD's by paying them for their services. Trust me, it's worth it.

          Later,

          Scott Papa
          Team Discraft
          Team Bite Shoes
          Instructional Editor DiscGolfer
          Last edited by papatart; March 11th, 2009, 11:48 PM. Reason: Misspelling
          Team Discraft
          Instructional Editor DiscGolfer Magazine

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          • #20
            I do agree that TD have a right to be paid for their work. And although I'm not standing next to Jub demanding full financial transparancy, I'd like to have some idea of where the money is going before I sign up for the tournament.

            For example, it's nice to have an idea approximately how much sponsorship will be added to the payout and how much cut per player the TD will take. That way, you can determine roughly what the payout will be like. I'd be disappointed if I paid $30.00 for a tournament, received no players pack, and there was only minimal payout. I probably wouldn't play a tournament like that again.

            But, if the basic financials are layed out ahead of time, players can make an informed decision about whether or not to play. The market will ultimately decide if running tournaments for profit will work.

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            • #21
              In my mind Financial transparency means all the receipts are accounted for that includes TD compensation. My biggest gripe is the perception of benevolence of the TD's. If they do it for money I (and others) want to know how much they believe their efforts are worth. I personally would rather use the money for rewarding volunteers for helping to get the course ready. I also believe players who get sponsors should be rewarded with a percentage of said sponsorship.

              Papa your McDonald's analogy is a little off. Yes I do get to chose which obese burger I want or if I want it at all (Personally Karl's kicks their ass) and Yes They don't have to show their books to the GP but Corporate McDonald's does have checks and balances at their level as well as evaluations, mystery shoppers etc for customer feedback that insures the consistency of product and service. Right now DG does not.

              SAM the bums will not win this year! Manny is to big of a baby and Schmidt's arm is going to fall off .The only Dodger worth rooting for NOOOOOMAAAAAA has gone to the A's.

              Here it is Sam If the Giants beat the Bums you will buy a Giants hat. If the bums win I will do the same Oh I meant buy a bums hat.
              Last edited by LJ Jubner; March 12th, 2009, 08:24 AM. Reason: spelling 14 mistakes
              rewindb.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                My biggets grype is the preception of beneilence
                Dude. Invest in a spell checker. They're free.

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                • #23
                  Use Firefox. It underlines every misspelled word.
                  ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                  ~Annika SŲrenstam

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                  • #24
                    Ain't it great what the involvement of money does for everything it touches? I love it that the World Baseball Classic uniforms and batting helmets have ads on them. Nobody can ever get enough money. Quality of the experience means nothing when you can make a buck on it, eh?

                    Sorry, I got off on the wrong planet and there seems to be little I can do about it except try to survive and enjoy what I have. Disc golf is becoming another microcosm of a great ignorance of missed potentials.

                    Why do we huck, anyway?
                    The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                    ...but it plays one on TV.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Bob, we huk for the love of hukking. We play tournaments for a different reason, though, and I see no reason why TDs should not make a buck for their time. It is no small feat to put together a tournament - especially a larger one - and I, for one, would rather see TDs compensated for their time rather than have them no longer organize for us.
                      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                      ~Annika SŲrenstam

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                      • #26
                        I have google spell check but sometimes when I post it goes away. Urgh!!!
                        rewindb.com

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                        • #27
                          I don't believe the sport is big enough to pay the people running the events nor will it ever
                          i've helped out at pga events before and trust me mr. jacobsen isn't pocketing any money
                          local clubs should benifit not any one person
                          you should do it to promote the sport and to give back to the cummunity
                          what people need to ask is what can i do for the tournament not what the tournament is going to do for me,thats what makes you a volunteer ,someone willing to give time and or money to benfit a cause without any finiancial or monetary gain,volunteers need more of them
                          it is america and i don't have a problem with someone making a business out of it, i play for the trophy ,if theirs a trophy i want to win it ,payout it not a concern as long as it's not to unfair,i"ve got plenty of plastic

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                          • #28
                            So if a TD documents that they will take like oh say $2 per entry for TD compensation, does that satisfy those disgruntled nosy dg'ers needs to know of "financial transparency"?
                            Jubner, use spell check more carefully. It kinda kills what you saying when you spell Carl's "Karl's"...
                            Either way, TD's deserve compensation, they invest hundreds of hours of volunteer work preparing for the tournament and then invest a whole weekend 24/7 to running it and hoping everyone has a great time. Doing it for free at first is easy, but those who do it over and over get burned out fast if they get nothing out of it that they can use, like dead presidents or discs.
                            Example, I have been working on the Oregon Championships since last JUNE and it ain't even till the end of MAY of this year! That is almost one year! If I averaged only 2 hours a week *more like 5*, that would be 100 hours volunteer time without the entire weekend itself... for free? Maybe this time, but i couldn't do it again for free, I love doing it but for free, I can only do so much... same goes for every other TD out there... The love of the game only goes so far...

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                            • #29
                              Really... if it comes down to the TD making a few bucks or us continually having freshmen TDs, I will take the former in a heartbeat. I have nothing against freshmen TDs, per se, but most people who have run more than one event will be quick to tell you that they made so many mistakes the first time out of sheer ignorance that one can only conclude that the quality of our tournaments will be reduced greatly.

                              While I was in Sylmar this past Monday, I spoke with Gary Sandoval about him and Steve Rico coming up to the Beaver State Fling this year. Gary told me that Steve had told him that the BSF is one of the top three tournaments in the world. I said nothing about the changes that are coming but I walked away worried that we would still get such glowing press after this year's event. Not that I think that Flash or Mittl will do anything other than a stellar job with this year's tournament but my concern is the same, nonetheless.
                              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                              ~Annika SŲrenstam

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                While I was in Sylmar this past Monday, I spoke with Gary Sandoval about him and Steve Rico
                                Sweet, My homies....


                                I said nothing about the changes that are coming but I walked away worried that we would still get such glowing press after this year's event. Not that I think that Flash or Mittl will do anything other than a stellar job with this year's tournament but my concern is the same, nonetheless.


                                I would have to say that unless Mt Hood ERUPTS, the BSF will go off with out a hitch........ I can't possibly concieve WHY you would think differently. BUT then again YOU are a Dodger Fan, NO true faith.


                                DODGERS SUCK, DODGERS SUCK, DODGERS SUCK

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