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  • #31
    It's really too bad the old PDGA Pro 2 model didn't work out.

    All AM divisions should play for trophies.

    The PRO division can play for cash. The PRO standard age and gender protected divisions would be just fine as is. All that would be needed is a divided open division: 1) ALL (950+ rating required) and 2) Rating protected (under 950 rated players).

    The AMs would get a players pack that is justified by the entry fee.

    IMHO, the entry fees have become too high for the average AM player.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
      Hard to believe I am the only respondent (so far) who chose:

      "NO: I came to win - ..."

      I think many of you are not being honest with yourselves...

      Or maybe because the full response was actually:

      "NO: I came to win - and that means lots of plastic to me!"

      I guess I can understand folks not choosing that option, since I agree more with the "NO: I came to win" part than the "that means lots of plastic to me" part.

      Perhaps the poll would be less biased it it just offered Yes, No, Indifferent, or More Info, without the editorialized comments after each option.?
      I wholeheartedly agree. The side remarks will skew the poll. It should also be a poll only open to amateurs. Otherwise it does not accurately reflect the mindset of the people to whom it directly affects.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by loki View Post
        I wholeheartedly agree. The side remarks will skew the poll. It should also be a poll only open to amateurs. Otherwise it does not accurately reflect the mindset of the people to whom it directly affects.
        or maybe us pros get that we don't need to vote in it???
        "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
        Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

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        • #34
          Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
          Hard to believe I am the only respondent (so far) who chose:

          Perhaps the poll would be less biased it it just offered Yes, No, Indifferent, or More Info, without the editorialized comments after each option.?
          I think the way the poll is phrased is incredibly biased. +1 TreeLove.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
            You are ignoring the #1 factor that screws up the AM side of most PDGA tourneys: letting all of the AMs play in MA1 regardless of rating. When you have 950+ rated players "winning" the entry fees of players with ratings in the 850-900 range you are giving that player an incentive to stay in the MA1 division for the easy pickings. But if you make players play in the AM divisions that their rating qualifies them to play in, you get more divisions with less players in any one division. That caps the total pie that can be won by any single player, and when those small payouts are no longer so tempting you will see those upper level MA1 players move to the open divisions.

            Ya but what if you don't have a PDGA rating?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by emmarose View Post
              or maybe us pros get that we don't need to vote in it???
              I would imagine many pro's will vote (being that it is anonymous we will never know) but a vote for trophy only will benefit pros more because more people on the cusp will sign up for pro if am goes to trophy only meaning more money in the pro purse. That being said, all those who are on the cusp and move up will now be on the receiving end of what they have been dealing out as high ranking amateurs in that the better players in their division will now take their money as opposed to them taking the scrip of lesser players in am. It's just the way it goes. I do still believe that this concept is a ploy for top pro's to make more money by bullying cusp riding ams into turning pro.

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              • #37
                I don't believe that is the case honestly, as most tournaments have no problem filling pro divisions these days. Also if this is what it takes to finally get those 'top tier' ams to move up, then I fail to see how that hurts anyone.....Hell say an 'am' does cash, and their rating is below 970, their is nothign stopping them from playing Advanced in the next tournament they chose to play.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by loki View Post
                  I would imagine many pro's will vote (being that it is anonymous we will never know) but a vote for trophy only will benefit pros more because more people on the cusp will sign up for pro if am goes to trophy only ... I do still believe that this concept is a ploy for top pro's to make more money by bullying cusp riding ams into turning pro.
                  What?

                  How is this a ploy to have more money for Pro?

                  Bullying?

                  I've already stated the none of the amateur entry fees will be used to add cash to the pro payout. If you are referring to the two or three individuals who might actually move up and play pro because they don't want a water proof jacket and would rather play for cash then I fail to see how that is considered bullying.

                  The few extra dollars pulled into the payout is balanced out by the fact you have to pay more individuals in that division at the end of the tournament. The highest paying Willamette Open in history only had 25 open players, and the money came from sponsorship, not a huge field of ams playing pros.

                  Your thoughts are not applicable to this tournament.

                  Is the poll biased?...oh gee I hadn't noticed
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                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I think everybody plays tournies for there own reasons some like money others like the prizes. I play for the chance to play against others and just maybe if I get all the parts of my game together at the same time I could win my division and get to stand in front of everyone at the end and know for that weekend I out played the rest of the field. I have a ton of discs that I will never throw from players packs but hey they are all memories of the times from my first time competing to now I can look back and remember all of the good and bad shots and people I competed against.

                    Play for your own reasons but hell just play and have fun doing it and if this is to hard for some just stay home.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Pros, by definition, play to be compensated for their effort. Amateurs play for the joy of playing.

                      Any Ams that are playing for more than a trophy and the limited glory are in the wrong division.

                      Reasonable entry fees (lower than most tourneys run these days), trophies and a not-crappy player pack is the right direction to head.

                      Go Dion!


                      thread drift....

                      Pro vs. AM is not really about ratings. It's about why you play. Plenty of "Pros" aren't "Pro" caliber. If I, a 50 yr old 900 level recreational player, can beat you on a given day, you aren't a Pro- at least you probably aren't making money at it! But you are playing Pro, correctly, because you want the chance to compete against the best, not a bunch a recreational yahoos like me.

                      Then again, if you are playing AM because you "earn" stuff, then you are a "Pro"- but one who simply hustles AMs because you aren't willing to pit your skills against true Pro players.

                      The worst AM/Pro offenders generally fit into their own unique group. They aren't hustling AMs for plastic from a need for stuff. Instead, they tend to be good players who are poor losers and therefor stay in the division where they do the least damage to their own egos.

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                      • #41
                        Even we battle hardened pros still feel a tiny shiver of joy from time to time!
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                        Stimpi Ridge Disc Golf in Spokane, WA
                        Play it Again Sports Corvallis and Eugene

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                        • #42
                          Back to the matter at hand...

                          Just curious: if the ams play for trophies only, what do you
                          estimate the entry fee will be? What was it last year?

                          Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wes Hansen View Post
                            Pros, by definition, play to be compensated for their effort. Amateurs play for the joy of playing.

                            Any Ams that are playing for more than a trophy and the limited glory are in the wrong division.

                            Reasonable entry fees (lower than most tourneys run these days), trophies and a not-crappy player pack is the right direction to head.

                            Go Dion!


                            thread drift....

                            Pro vs. AM is not really about ratings. It's about why you play. Plenty of "Pros" aren't "Pro" caliber. If I, a 50 yr old 900 level recreational player, can beat you on a given day, you aren't a Pro- at least you probably aren't making money at it! But you are playing Pro, correctly, because you want the chance to compete against the best, not a bunch a recreational yahoos like me.

                            Then again, if you are playing AM because you "earn" stuff, then you are a "Pro"- but one who simply hustles AMs because you aren't willing to pit your skills against true Pro players.

                            The worst AM/Pro offenders generally fit into their own unique group. They aren't hustling AMs for plastic from a need for stuff. Instead, they tend to be good players who are poor losers and therefor stay in the division where they do the least damage to their own egos.
                            this is one of the best posts i've ever read. and- it came from (cough cough) wes hanson. right on, brother!! i agree with all of this ENTIRELY. who'da thunk?!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Really? THAT'S your question?

                              Originally posted by E Smith View Post
                              Ya but what if you don't have a PDGA rating?
                              Then you DEFINITELY DO NOT qualify to play in the MA1 division!!!!!

                              Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                              Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                              Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                              Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                              Or does here stand the last remaining man
                              To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                              No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                              Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                              Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
                                Then you DEFINITELY DO NOT qualify to play in the MA1 division!!!!!

                                This probably would not be a popular idea but your post got me thinking.

                                It would prevent a lot of "sand bagging" if the PDGA required a player to be current member to play in any division other than Open. Or it could be the TDs discretion as to what division you get to play in. If the TD does not know the player or how well they play the default would be Open. It would be very helpful in a rating based tournaments too. Another benefit of being a PDGA member?

                                Just throwing out a hypothetical. Thoughts?

                                Comment

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