Are all flat top Bosses first runs? Page Title Module
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  • #16
    http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

    I've never been on that site before. That's a good one
    Read this ^

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DMajor View Post
      http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

      I've never been on that site before. That's a good one
      Stay away from the technique/instructional stuff. You'll lose a week reading it, and you'll never throw another disc without analyzing yourself to tears.

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      • #18
        Just got my Champion-XG Bosses in today! Wow, are they flat, concave, even! Plastic not as flexible as the "taco" in the photo suggested, I won't be trying that with my discs. But definitely feel "grippy, not gummy". No DG for me this weekend, so we'll have to wait to see wait they fly like.....
        Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
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        • #19
          As an experiment, I went outside today and tossed a drink-coaster-quality music CD. It was a simple flat disc with no describable difference between sides except for the printing on one side. I tossed it, either side up, and with no dome or leading/lifting winglike edge, it was overstable. Shiny or dull side up, it turned hard left (throwing RHBH). It apparently takes some lift to go straight or turn right. One would think that dome would add to lift. How much lift is developed at the edge or over the flight plate would add up the the differences between the various molds, eh?
          The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
          ...but it plays one on TV.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
            As an experiment, I went outside today and tossed a drink-coaster-quality music CD. It was a simple flat disc with no describable difference between sides except for the printing on one side. I tossed it, either side up, and with no dome or leading/lifting winglike edge, it was overstable. Shiny or dull side up, it turned hard left (throwing RHBH). It apparently takes some lift to go straight or turn right. One would think that dome would add to lift. How much lift is developed at the edge or over the flight plate would add up the the differences between the various molds, eh?

            Ok, I'm not one of those fancy scientists with the degrees and the white coats, but I was thinking along these same lines of thought.

            A domey flight plate would seem to me to create a larger profile into the air as it flies. The greater difference in volume created by the dome on the underside of the disc would translate into a larger pressure difference.

            The result of a greater pressure difference, between the top and the bottom, as we all know from wing theory, means more lift, it aint rocket science.
            More lift to me would mean greater instability, or, in other words, easier to turn over, or LESS stable.

            Flat top discs, with less volume on the underside, tend to have less lift, and more equal pressures between top and bottom means more stability, in other words, a flat top wants to come down first, and the fastest way down is a hard turn, or going verticle.

            Thats how I see it, and this is how my discs seem to all behave, I buy flat tops if I want hyzer discs, I buy domes for flippy, floaty stuff.

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            • #21
              the 2nd link is the meat and potatoes

              I basically agree with the last 2 analyses, but the only piece of evidence I have to offer may not be one you guys will welcome with open arms -- the Epic by Aerobie.

              This disc obviously has a unique "personality", if you will, but the feature I feel may be relevent is that the manufacturer indicates how to tune it for a desired stability: flex the edges up for more stability, and down for less. Practical application verifies the theory easily and undeniably. So at least for this disc, all other factors held constant, domey = less stable, and flat/concave = more stable.

              And say what you will about the company and their golf discs, but these guys are onto something.

              Also, great food for thought with that DGR link, Tim.
              anything truly worth doing is not likely to be easy.

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              • #22
                Why the stabilities are different I don't know, but I do like my slower fairway drivers to be flat and my faster distance drivers to be domey.
                I like my plastic dense and stiff, which seams to be a bit more stable. Usually flat for teebirds and firebirds but domey for destroyers and wraiths. The boss is just weird because it is so big and the many plastic combinations used to make it either lighter or heavier or grippier, or bossier are new to the market so they don't fit into the guidelines set by other discs. I do know that however they may fly compared to the next one can be learned with one short field session and no matter how stable or overstable the disc is it will still be crazy fast.
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                • #23
                  Where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, is the leading edge. I've seen some pretty flippy flat-tops. The larger share of the lift must be being generated in the first inch. Overall lift has to be a balance of combined lifts coming from both edge and flight plate.

                  Remember the old Aerobie Rings? They had essentially two wings, a leading and a trailing, and no flight plate at all. The leading wing roiled the air that the trailing wing passed through. This meant the leading wing got more lift than the trailing wing. To keep them all from flipping right, they put that little spoiler ridge along the outer edge. This killed enough of the lift on the leading wing to equalize its lift with the trailing wing. People were throwing them things a quarter mile, way back then. Of course the reason people quit buying them is that 99% of all Aerobie Rings thrown into a tree, stay in the tree.
                  Last edited by Ol' Bob; January 22nd, 2010, 09:46 AM. Reason: comma-kazzie
                  The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                  ...but it plays one on TV.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by loocid
                    So obviously it wouldn't meet PDGA specs, but what would happen if that design were used on a disc? Anyone ever cut the center out of a driver just to see?
                    I'm sure you'd see Flip City. Almost all the lift would be at the front.

                    Those Aerobie Rings were an eighth inch thick, at most. They were about ten inches in diameter and the ring was maybe an inch and a half wide with a steel armature or core. Very sharp leading and trailing edges, for nearly no drag. I wonder how far the big arms of today are slinging them?
                    The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                    ...but it plays one on TV.

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                    • #25
                      Leading edge baby, that's where a lot of it starts. As discs get beat in and the leading edge get beat downward the disc becomes more understable. Generally, when a disc of a certain mold is domey as opposed to a flat head disc of the same mold, the leading edge tends to be pointed down more and thereby less overstable. Flat plate brings the leading edge up and gives more overstable.

                      True, a generalization, but one that molders generally agree with on a genreal basis about general discs in general, generally speaking.

                      later,
                      Scott Papa
                      Team Discraft
                      Instructional Editor DiscGolfer Magazine

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                      • #26
                        Personally, I believe the change that happens in a disc to make it less stable with use is due mostly to added turbulence over the top of the leading edge created by scratching and scarring. Most of the air's relative speed over the disc's surface is generated by the spin, and the fastest relative motion is over the top of the leading edge, with a relative speed advantage to the forward spinning side (i.e., left front for RHBH). As the disc becomes less smooth, the boundary layer turbulence increases and thickens, creating a higher virtual wing profile that the passing air must rise over. This lengthened path for the passing air lowers the pressure and adds lift at that point.

                        I can see varied shrinkage of the flight plate, cooling from the mold, being an initial factor in stability by pulling, or not pulling, the edge up, but I don't see edges being bent down significantly from use. I see scratching and scarring, not bending.

                        On edit: I also believe that beat-in discs often fly better because the added boundary layer turbulence acts as a lubricant and decreases overall drag of the disc.
                        Last edited by Ol' Bob; January 24th, 2010, 09:54 AM.
                        The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                        ...but it plays one on TV.

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