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  • So the acetone helped. The image never turned black, but it was a dark gray, so that's alright. Thanks for all your help guys.
    Whenever I see a matress on top of a car, I think it's a prostitute making a house call!

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    • 1 more question: If your image has a VERY fine line, what is the best way to cut it? What happens if you just make a single line cut in the vinyl? Will you get a fine line, or will it bleed? Or do I need to cut out the thinnest strip of vinyl possible to get a fine line?
      Whenever I see a matress on top of a car, I think it's a prostitute making a house call!

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      • Originally posted by Kris C View Post
        1 more question: If your image has a VERY fine line, what is the best way to cut it? What happens if you just make a single line cut in the vinyl? Will you get a fine line, or will it bleed? Or do I need to cut out the thinnest strip of vinyl possible to get a fine line?
        you can get fine lines by making a single cut in the vinyl, but i have found that sometimes the vinyl closes up in spots so you dont get a full line. what i have done to fight that is to spread the vinyl just slightly after i put it on the disc. this works good for me.
        Team HOSER:dancing:
        Team OLY:cheerleader:
        Team Meteor

        "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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        • Originally posted by Burge View Post
          I once traded someone a Pro Beast for a Pro monster and wanted to remove the sharpie marker scribbling doodle dye job that was on the top, ('monster' face) and it wouldn't all come off with isoproponol. So, after wiping the hell out of it acetone, I put it in a gallon ziploc (which are impervious to acetone) and then filled it with acetone and left for a few minutes. No change. After checking on it several times over a few hours, I decided to leave it in overnight. Bad idea. By morning, the flight plate had expanded, while the rim had not, making the disc look like a giant bottle cap! It was freaky lookin'. The disc 'dried out' after about a week and the flight plate actually shrank and changed the overall angle of attack on the wing of the disc such that it flew unpredictably...beyond understable. Nothing like a Monster.
          I did almost the exact same thing with a Champion Monster. After a friend put a sick dye on it, I didn't like how my name and number showed through the flight plate. Dabbing with acetone faded it, but didn't remove it, so I turned the disc upside down, filled it with acetone, and let it sit overnight.
          Like you said - bad idea. Sharpie was gone, but disc is unthrowable.

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          • Here's how you can increase your chances at success with Rit:

            1. Start with distilled water: Since local tap water varies widely from place to place, and you need a neutral to mildly alkaline solution, distilled is the easiest way to start from zero--actually, 7.0 or 'neutral' pH. It also eliminates the possibility of mineral content which can hinder the dying process.

            2. Slightly increase the alkalinity of your solution: This can be as simple as adding a small amount of sodium bicarbonate (orange box, in the kitchen, white powder, not blowunless you're buying really cheap blow). About a teaspoon should do the trick for the average dye 'vat'. Adding more is not necessary and if your solution is too alkaline, the water can't 'carry' the dye. There are other household items that would make your water more alkaline (bleach, sodium hydroxide), but these can, and will, release toxic fumes into the air when heated--which brings us to the last part...

            3. Stay near boiling point: While 'dying' a disc, use a thermometer to stay above 200F(90C), or just keep your pot at a slight simmer. Since you will have evaporation loss at constant temp, make a little scratch at the starting fluid level, of whatever concoction you've decided to go with, so that you can add distilled water as the level goes down. Constant temp will find any weak spots on your masked edge, so be sure to thoroughly burnish down the edges of your design.

            Following these simple guidelines will ensure that, whatever dye job you're up to, your dye will be at it's best. Good luck, and, keep dippin'!
            "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

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            • Originally posted by Burge View Post
              3. Stay near boiling point: While 'dying' a disc, use a thermometer to stay above 200F(90C), or just keep your pot at a slight simmer. Since you will have evaporation loss at constant temp, make a little scratch at the starting fluid level, of whatever concoction you've decided to go with, so that you can add distilled water as the level goes down. Constant temp will find any weak spots on your masked edge, so be sure to thoroughly burnish down the edges of your design.
              I always enjoy reading your posts on dyeing because they come from a more scientific stand point, but i would not suggest keeping the dye at the temperatures that you suggest. i have had 2 discs warped from the dye being too hot and also had a few discs that the dye sort of "burns" the disc and causes it to discolor and do funky things with any sort of bubbles that might form in an attempt to boil.

              if your dye is close to the boiling point then when you place your disc in the dye it displaces some of the water/dye so that the amount of liquid between the disc and bottom of pan is less. with that being the case the liquid will start simmering or boiling because there is less liquid to heat up directly under the disc. i watched one guy pull his disc out of the dye and it looked like the surface of the moon. the bubbles from the boiling dye made weird circles on the disc so it looked like craters.

              i always heat up my dye until it is steaming nicely then wait 5-10 minutes before i put the disc in now. and i have never had any more problems and the dye sets just fine in most plastics. if a person is patient enough you dont even have to heat up the dye, it just takes a day or two for each color.
              Team HOSER:dancing:
              Team OLY:cheerleader:
              Team Meteor

              "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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              • Burge, is your information based upon theory or experience?
                The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

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                • Originally posted by TYVEK View Post
                  i would not suggest keeping the dye at the temperatures that you suggest. i have had 2 discs warped from the dye being too hot and also had a few discs that the dye sort of "burns" the disc and causes it to discolor and do funky things with any sort of bubbles that might form in an attempt to boil.
                  Yeah, I've seen more than a couple "toasted marshmallows" due to people keeping the dye too hot.
                  Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

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                  • Originally posted by ChUcK View Post
                    Burge, is your information based upon theory or experience?
                    I've dyed more fabric than discs, but what I'm telling you this is the chemical reality of Rit. My strong suggestion is that you keep the water around 180-200F as this is where the dye 'sets' into the material. This is more important for those dying DX, Pro-D and other plastics that don't want to accept direct dyes like Rit, but not so critical for clear plastics as these have a 'lattice' polymeric structure, providing plenty of places for the dye particles to become trapped. Letting a disc rest on the bottom while boiling is going to give you areas of temperature far beyond 212. That's why the one anecdotal individual had 'craters of the moon'--the steam bubbles forming on the bottom are well within the range of the melting point of the plastic. Plus, direct contact with the bottom of the pan is going to transfer heat into the disc through conduction, bypassing the buffer of convection that water provides. I made a little tripod out of chopsticks and silicone rubber bands to keep discs from touching the bottom and it worked pretty well.
                    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

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                    • Despite all the valuable vocabulary, I'm still calling shenanigans on your dye recommendations. The actions you are telling people to take are in direct opposition to what I have seen and felt with my own bare Xactos.
                      The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

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                      • I take it that Obama disc crashed into a tree the first time it was out flying. HA HA HA !!!!!!!

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                        • Originally posted by Burge View Post
                          I've dyed more fabric than discs, but what I'm telling you this is the chemical reality of Rit. My strong suggestion is that you keep the water around 180-200F as this is where the dye 'sets' into the material. This is more important for those dying DX, Pro-D and other plastics that don't want to accept direct dyes like Rit, but not so critical for clear plastics as these have a 'lattice' polymeric structure, providing plenty of places for the dye particles to become trapped. Letting a disc rest on the bottom while boiling is going to give you areas of temperature far beyond 212. That's why the one anecdotal individual had 'craters of the moon'--the steam bubbles forming on the bottom are well within the range of the melting point of the plastic. Plus, direct contact with the bottom of the pan is going to transfer heat into the disc through conduction, bypassing the buffer of convection that water provides. I made a little tripod out of chopsticks and silicone rubber bands to keep discs from touching the bottom and it worked pretty well.
                          i have never once had a disc resting on the bottom of the pan, that would be totally disasterous! i dont think i even mentioned any disc resting on the bottom. you dont need any device to keep your disc from touching the bottom of the pan, its like a boat. they just float there and bob around, i even put a little bit of weight in my discs so that i dont get a dye line in the middle of the edge of the disc.

                          i enjoy your scientific talk, but not when it is impractical in application.
                          Last edited by TYVEK; October 9th, 2010, 07:09 AM. Reason: spelling
                          Team HOSER:dancing:
                          Team OLY:cheerleader:
                          Team Meteor

                          "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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                          • [IMG][/IMG]
                            Whenever I see a matress on top of a car, I think it's a prostitute making a house call!

                            Comment


                            • He's got a rash on his belly button.

                              Nice Xacto work.
                              The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                              ...but it plays one on TV.

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                              • Okay, woah, first of all, My attempts to offer a bit more understanding about the chemical process involved in using a dye like Rit, (which IMHO is the worst fabric dye you can lay your hands on, but it's readily available and cheap) are just that: attempts to offer a bit more understanding. I'm not trying to lead anyone down some dark path of bullshit, so I think referring to my attempts as 'shenanigans' is a gross assumption on your part and a false accusation that I do not appreciate fielding.

                                I've already stated that my experience with Rit dye extends more into the realm of using it for it's intended purpose and not the disparate application being discussed herein. When I first looked into dyeing discs I was dubious that a fabric dye could be effective on plastic, but I gave Rit a chance on five discs before I decided that I didn't like the results for such an arduous and variable riddled process. I wanted colors that were more vibrant, so I've used solvent-resistant inks that look great, but are so dense that they behave more like paint when applied to plastic. Like I said, Rit is cheap and easy to find, so that's been the weapon of choice for most, but there are much higher quality fabric-dyes that, can be mixed in small quantities, are far more brilliant then Rit could ever hope to be, and don't require a hot vat of saltwater to work because they can be applied directly at room temp--but you can't pick them up at the grocery store so, to each his own.

                                Quite frankly, I think your work, ChUck, if you're using Rit exclusively, is rather impressive. I've never seen someone get such amazing three-color fades and gradients and it gives your dye jobs a one-of-a-kind look.

                                As for TYVEK, when you mentioned 'craters of the moon', I assumed that you were saying that the actual surface of the disc had craters, so that is why I was surmising that the disc must have been in contact with the bottom of the pan, but it is now clear to me that you were talking about the dye. The disc that I had that I made the little tripod for was a 177g gummy champ monster. I wanted the dye design to wrap all the way around the edge to the underside of the wing, which meant that it would have to be fully submerged, but I didn't want the disc to touch the bottom of the pan, so I made a little tripod and then put a heavy saucer in the middle of the disc to weigh it down, yet after the entire disc was under the surface, it remained submerged without the saucer, so yes, all discs will float, as long as they remain upside down and resting on the surface. Since virtually everyone is just dyeing the top of their discs, yes, they just float it on top, that's exactly why your friend got that pattern: as the disc rested on top, and the solution boiled, the bubbles of steam are trapped against the underside of the disc from the tension on the surface of the water and prevented the actual dye solution to come in contact with the disc for a long enough period of time. If your friend had masked off the under side of the disc and submerged it in the pot, yet had prevented it from coming in contact with the pan, the bubbles would have traveled over the surface at a much faster rate and would have had no noticeable effect on the overall look of the dye. Also, it's highly likely that is the reason why you had a few discs warp. Were they drivers? or putters? A disc with a rim that is going to reach up out of the water as it rafts on top is going to have a big temperature difference between the flight plate and the rim and, subsequently, the flight plate will expand faster than the rim and warp the disc. This could also be potentially solved by submerging the entire disc and, thereby, subjecting the entire disc to the same amount of thermal expansion and reducing the chance of distortion.

                                I've seen many amazing dyes posted on forums over the years and I'm never even going to consider the possibility of trying to deny that diligent individuals can achieve excellent results with Rit, but Kris' problem with getting a DX disc to accept color is an issue every dye-junkie faces at one point or another, so, silly me, I thought I'd try to re-visit an old problem and hopefully shed some new light on the process. Guess it didn't work. Bummer.
                                Last edited by Burge; October 9th, 2010, 09:20 PM. Reason: more info
                                "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

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