Destroyer vs Force.... I think I want a more consistent disc manufacturer Page Title Module
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  • #31
    Assuming I can find both, I'll compare them when I get home. And sure, discs get misstamped...but they're supposed to get an X-out stamp on top of that when that happens.
    Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      But the difference between these things Firebird and these things Viking should be very apparent, I would think. No?
      I need you to re-phrase that before I answer it, I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.

      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      the "consistency" issue that somehow Innova gets saddled with while Discraft usually gets the free pass from the undereducated masses
      Everyone loves an underdog story.

      <begin rant>

      Brand loyalty in disc golf is STUPID. The people that have been playing for only a short time and are willing to stand up and claim a brand that they throw, and defend the credentials of this brand over that brand are pretty numb in the head. The idea that one brand's products are somehow better than another brands products is absurd, when in reality they're virtually the same and the only thing that really matters is who's throwing the disc. If you have enough skill to shoot -5 at Pier Park with an all Innova bag, but you're unable to do the same with an all Dcraft bag, then you have a big problem.

      Sam mentioned that the consistency issue gets placed primarily in Innova's lap in everyday DG conversation. That's true, at least here in PDX. In other parts of the DG World, people view it the exact opposite. So what is it? Personally, I think that the drivers produced from Dcraft in 2003-2006 were far superior in plastic blend and consistency than the Innova drivers that came out at the same time. Is it true? Maybe, but it's a pretty hard thing to prove, so instead we jump on the brand loyalty bandwagon and just speculate until everyone around us speculates the same thing. In essence, we have created a fact.

      I could keep writing, but I'm about to get to the point where I'm calling people out, and that's pretty dumb also, as well as unnecessary.

      In closing, brand loyalty in DG is dumb, unless you're sponsored, then it's a necessary evil.

      </end rant>

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      • #33
        Oh, before anybody comments, I was referring ONLY to Discraft and Innova in the above post.

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        • #34
          I throw all Discraft. I could jump on the brand loyalty bandwagon, but won't. Hey I've thrown every brand out there over the years. I throw all Discraft for simplicity, for me fewer molds I can throw well is more important than brand. I finally made the switch to all Discraft because I tired of the inherent inconsistencies of innova. And while there are bound to be differences between runs from either manufacturers, Discraft variances are less perceptible to me. That consistency builds confidence, and confidence means I miss my putts by smaller measurements. Heck, if I could drain 90% of my putts with a hard buffalo chip, I'd be throwing a buffalo chip.
          educate your thinking

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          • #35
            So I can still mock people who throw the Maximizer?

            To rephrase my question... if you look at a Viking and you look at a Firebird, there should be some areas of difference that just jump out at you - such as rim-depth, rim width, flight-plate thickness, etc. Wouldn't you think that these differences (which makes these discs fly so differently) are apparent to the naked eye?
            ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
            ~Annika SŲrenstam

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Wouldn't you think that these differences (which makes these discs fly so differently) are apparent to the naked eye?
              Definitely, but I thought we were referring to identical discs that fly much differently?

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              • #37
                We are. But isn't the flight of a disc determined by things such as rim-width and flight-plate and whatnot?

                I am just having a hard time being convinced that a disc that is built like a Viking and clearly has Viking characteristics would magically fly like a disc that has completely different characteristics. I mean... where does this stop? Can a Coyote be like a Firebird? How about an Aviar? Certainly, there must be some limitations on this... right?
                ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                ~Annika SŲrenstam

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sam View Post
                  We are. But isn't the flight of a disc determined by things such as rim-width and flight-plate and whatnot?

                  I am just having a hard time being convinced that a disc that is built like a Viking and clearly has Viking characteristics would magically fly like a disc that has completely different characteristics. I mean... where does this stop? Can a Coyote be like a Firebird? How about an Aviar? Certainly, there must be some limitations on this... right?
                  The limitation that you're looking for would be the speed of the disc.

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                  • #39
                    If the discs are the same speed, they can be shaped all wacky but have the same flight, or be shaped similarly and have different flights.

                    Take the Surge and the Surge SS, for instance. Visually, they are quite similar, however their flight pattern is way different.

                    And another example on the other side would be a Whippet vs. Xtreme. Visually, they are not very similar, but their flight pattern and speed are very similar.

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                    • #40
                      OK, so here's the disc in question, I apologize for shitty cell phone camera quality:



                      (I was actually lying through my teeth, it's 162g, not 163)


                      Next to the "good" Viking:




                      And stacked on top:


                      There's definitely a discrepancy between the two discs, the freak Viking's rim sits taller than the normal one's. The shape of the wing is different, but I can't tell if it's a different mold, or that they cooled differently or whatnot. I'm really wishing I had a better camera right now, it's hard to get the angle right using the phone's "viewfinder".

                      For the sake of comparison, here it is next to a 9x KC Pro FB:
                      Last edited by Tim; April 14th, 2009, 07:21 AM.
                      Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

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                      • #41
                        well the freak viking is not a viking... looks like an orc to me... anything but a viking...

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                        • #42
                          There was a run of Z Predators back in 2004 that were all orange. They flew NOTHING like Predators, in fact, they were almost more like an XS in terms of stability.
                          The Dcraft Crush had a problem where the first run flew drastically different than the production runs.


                          Hey Ryan, I just lost my last Orange Predator of that run. Carlo gave me like 4 of them. Crazy glide but almost no stability.

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                          • #43
                            Oh yeah, almost forgot, Someone is A Moron, I was exaggerating if you couldn't tell. I was making an overstatement to the fact that when you buy ANY disc it would be nice if it flew how it was meant to from the manufacturers description. Not saying that there aren't occasional variances.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mine all mine View Post
                              Hey Ryan, I just lost my last Orange Predator of that run. Carlo gave me like 4 of them. Crazy glide but almost no stability.
                              I hated those things, I got suckered into buying two of them before I realized the whole run was botched. I blame Carlo, he never liked me anyhow!

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                              • #45
                                The inconsistency in certain molds can be a positive thing:
                                more variety > more choices = better chance of finding the particular disc that makes the bag

                                I wouldn't want all discs to be uniform-- I like having the option of domey vs flat, or stiff vs flexible, without having to choose an entirely different disc-- alot of folks love their 'flippy' bosses, while others swear by their super stable boss. (or their straight flick vs crazy stable flick)
                                <this is all assuming the discs are the same weight, new, and not beat in>
                                Don't just walk past that candy wrapper on the fairway-- I know you saw it!

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