Destroyer vs Force.... I think I want a more consistent disc manufacturer Page Title Module
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  • #16
    No... Andy is right. Innova invents. Discraft imitates. Hey... it works for them. They are up to what... 6 or 7 percent market share? Maybe?

    Personally, I think the idea of losing a disc and then going to buy a back-up is ludicrous. If you do not have back-ups of everything in your bag already and know how it is going to fly prior to putting it in your bag, you are not doing it right.

    And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.
    ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
    ~Annika SŲrenstam

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.
      Says the guy who drinks the Innova cool-aid!
      Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
      Remain ye men of faculty complete,
      Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
      Attending to our noble bond and contract?
      Or does here stand the last remaining man
      To give a fig for rules and order yet,
      No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
      Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
      Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.
        Hmm, I haven't experienced that with Firebirds, but I do own two Vikings. Both are champion, one is max weight, and flies like a slightly more stable Valk. The other is 163g, and flies like a Firebird. No bong was involved in the assessment of these flights, btw.
        Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

        Comment


        • #19
          Bear in mind that when you lose a disc that you loved it was most likely a well worn disc. So even an exactly identical run will fly quite different when new as compared to your old disc.

          Another thing that I do is to buy several of a mold at once. That way they come out of the same run so that they're consistent with one another. If I want to learn a disc it helps to have more then one of it to take to a field to throw.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
            Says the guy who drinks the Innova cool-aid!
            Puh-lease. I have thrown discs of all makers and have settled on the specific discs that I like. If you want to think me a kool-aid drinker because of this, that is cool. I have thrown many a Discraft disc and two of my thirteen aces are with the Glide.

            But sure... I drink the Innova Kool-aid.
            ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
            ~Annika SŲrenstam

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Tim View Post
              Hmm, I haven't experienced that with Firebirds, but I do own two Vikings. Both are champion, one is max weight, and flies like a slightly more stable Valk. The other is 163g, and flies like a Firebird. No bong was involved in the assessment of these flights, btw.
              A 163g Viking that flies like a Firebird - and you say no bong was involved. I find this very hard to believe, Tim. Have you thrown many Firebirds in your time?
              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
              ~Annika SŲrenstam

              Comment


              • #22
                I've heard this about Vikings too; it seems to be one of Innova's more inconsistent molds.
                Oregon disc golf map

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                • #23
                  I found it hard to believe too...my main overstable disc is a Predator (for all intents and purposes, a Firebird), and the Viking flies similar--it might even be compared to an EXP or Banshee. I tend to prefer Innova (Millennium) drivers to Discraft, but when a lightweight disc is freakishly more stable than a max weight one of the same mold and plastic...well, you can hardly call that consistent.
                  Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Could it be that you are subconsciously throwing the 163g differently than the 175g viking? I have owed 3-4 vikings in the past 2 years, all few similar to eachother and never had one that faded anywhere close to a firebird unless I eased up on it, alot...
                    And BVD is correct, you lose a conditioned disc and then get the same one off the shelf and realize it's nothing like the disc you lost. well throw it at least 20-30 more times before making any judgements. If I threw every disc less than 20 times before passing judgement on it, I would be throwing a 132g #1 Hyzer as my main driver now with almost zero Innova or Discraft in my bag.
                    Also, maybe the disc isn't exactly the way your old one flew, but hey, you'll learn what that current disc will do and use it to fit your game, not force the disc to fly where it dosent wanna fly.
                    The champ valk I have now is nothing like the one I bought off the shelf 6 months ago.
                    And Sam finally makes a good "Innova-Kool-Aide" induced comment about the backups in the bag already and knowing what they do before starting a round... never have a disc that you don't trust in your bag for a round. Save it for a practice day where you will give it the attention it deserves to learn what it does for you before using it on the course where it counts.

                    wow, just previewed this and i feel like my words just runnn my toungue out of my mouth... good thing i can sign it...

                    Edit: All my vikings have been 169-172g, just for the record... And i parked a hole here in rocklin that I have never been able to park before, thanks to my 170 viking...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Maybe it was a Banshee that they just wrote Viking on? Have you compared the profile with your other Viking? I mean... is it REALLY a Viking? I have a hard time believing that the discs look the same as far as plate thickness, rim height and thickness and fly so differently.
                      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                      ~Annika SŲrenstam

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I actually got the 163g one first. I think I'd just bought it on a whim after reading one of Dave D.'s posts about how the Viking was the most unappreciated disc and whatnot. Figuring at 163g, I'd be able to throw it a mile, I let it launch and it flew straight and immediately to the left. I tried keeping it in my bag for 2 weeks or so, trying to get a good feel for it, but it got to the point where my buddies would be like "oh god, you're going to try to throw THAT thing again?" I think the light one may have a flatter top than the max weight, but I haven't looked at the rim profiles side by side. If it were the case that it is indeed a misstamped disc, that would explain things, but wouldn't do much to defend Innova's quality control.
                        Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Compare the two. Both companies misstamp discs.
                          ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                          ~Annika SŲrenstam

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            I have a hard time believing that the discs look the same as far as plate thickness, rim height and thickness and fly so differently.
                            Come on Sam, this is a problem with all manufacturers occasionally. The flight pattern can be altered significantly by things that we can't see with our eyes. It's very sensitive.

                            There was a run of Z Predators back in 2004 that were all orange. They flew NOTHING like Predators, in fact, they were almost more like an XS in terms of stability.

                            There was an early run of yellow CE Valkyries that were coined "Franken Valks" because they flew VERY similarly to Firebirds

                            The Dcraft Crush had a problem where the first run flew drastically different than the production runs.

                            The Boss is a more current example. The star stamped boss is visually the same disc (maybe a bit flatter) as the production run boss, however the production run boss is significantly more overstable.


                            I could go on and on and on.

                            Another thing to keep in mind is that the harder/more powerful you throw, the more these inconsistencies are evident. Someone maxing out at 300' isn't going to be able to see anywhere near the same discrepancies as someone bombing 450'.
                            Last edited by gwillim; April 13th, 2009, 02:01 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gwillim View Post
                              Come on Sam, this is a problem with all manufacturers occasionally. The flight pattern can be altered significantly by things that we can't see with our eyes. It's very sensitive.
                              But the difference between these things Firebird and these things Viking should be very apparent, I would think. No?

                              The rest of your post was excellent and does quite a bit to expose the other side of the "consistency" issue that somehow Innova gets saddled with while Discraft usually gets the free pass from the undereducated masses. Thanks.
                              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                              ~Annika SŲrenstam

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Tim View Post
                                I actually got the 163g one first. I think I'd just bought it on a whim after reading one of Dave D.'s posts about how the Viking was the most unappreciated disc and whatnot. Figuring at 163g, I'd be able to throw it a mile, I let it launch and it flew straight and immediately to the left. I tried keeping it in my bag for 2 weeks or so, trying to get a good feel for it, but it got to the point where my buddies would be like "oh god, you're going to try to throw THAT thing again?" I think the light one may have a flatter top than the max weight, but I haven't looked at the rim profiles side by side. If it were the case that it is indeed a misstamped disc, that would explain things, but wouldn't do much to defend Innova's quality control.
                                Take the viking to a local pro shop, have it looked at... I doubt it is a viking if you are throwing it properly...

                                Comment

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