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  • #46
    I had to rework all of the files from last year and haven't had a chance to go over each rating and round, but it looked pretty decent as the SSA was very close to what has been shot in the past at each course.

    It is possible that there are errors and/or missing player rounds etc. so it will help me out if every captain (at least!) checks the stats to make sure that nothing is wrong or missing.

    I will probably have to make some minor changes since I am sure that there are some errors in all of the look-up calls in all of the different files and tabs.

    Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
    Remain ye men of faculty complete,
    Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
    Attending to our noble bond and contract?
    Or does here stand the last remaining man
    To give a fig for rules and order yet,
    No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
    Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
    Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by NWDiscer View Post
      seriously the ratings are gonna jump like that all year?????
      No. It's just because we've only got one week's data. After week one your starting rating got averaged with your week one rounds so it was easy to make big jumps.

      The rating is the average of your starting rating (except people who defaulted to 1000) and all your round ratings. So as the season goes by there will be less and less change each week. Just like last year.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Jeff Hemmerling View Post
        No. It's just because we've only got one week's data. After week one your starting rating got averaged with your week one rounds so it was easy to make big jumps.

        The rating is the average of your starting rating (except people who defaulted to 1000) and all your round ratings. So as the season goes by there will be less and less change each week. Just like last year.
        Actually since the cell that initially held the 1000 ratings is included in the total ratings (and setting it to zero would result in an error) for these players I have entered their ratings as determined by the rounds they shot in the first event.

        Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
        Remain ye men of faculty complete,
        Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
        Attending to our noble bond and contract?
        Or does here stand the last remaining man
        To give a fig for rules and order yet,
        No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
        Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
        Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

        Comment


        • #49
          It looks like there is an error with Chris Voyer in: http://ortdg.weebly.com/rosters--ratings.html

          He started at 1000, shot one round of 969, but has a new rating of 968.

          I think the problem stemmed from the change of his starting rating. It looks like it was changed from 1000 to 967, but should have been changed to 969, resulting in a new rating of 969, after his round of 969.

          If I were a TDG player, and I am, I would double check all my stats each time new stats are published. Oh, and I did. Now I suggest you do the same, TDG players!
          Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
          Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
          Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
          Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
          Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
            It looks like there is an error with Chris Voyer in: http://ortdg.weebly.com/rosters--ratings.html

            He started at 1000, shot one round of 969, but has a new rating of 968.

            I think the problem stemmed from the change of his starting rating. It looks like it was changed from 1000 to 967, but should have been changed to 969, resulting in a new rating of 969, after his round of 969.

            If I were a TDG player, and I am, I would double check all my stats each time new stats are published. Oh, and I did. Now I suggest you do the same, TDG players!
            Thanks for the heads up! That sounds like a keyboarding error on my part. I'll double check it when I get home tonight.

            Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
            Remain ye men of faculty complete,
            Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
            Attending to our noble bond and contract?
            Or does here stand the last remaining man
            To give a fig for rules and order yet,
            No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
            Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
            Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

            Comment


            • #51
              Could the contents of Post #5 please be moved into post #1? meaning, Jordan, would you mind please mind copying, editing, and pasting, and deleting to make that happen?

              It would be mighty convenient if all that vital info could always be found in the OP.

              (I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner, but it would be quite useful if TDs would simply keep updating their OP Post #1 with all the vital event info as it develops. Even throughout the course of a series or league. Weekly info could be added each week as it becomes available. That way readers would not have to comb through pages of chatter that inevitably gets posted below the OP. Explicitly, I mean by using the Edit button that appears on the post only when you are logged in to the site.)
              Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
              Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
              Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
              Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
              Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
                Could the contents of Post #5 please be moved into post #1? meaning, Jordan, would you mind please mind copying, editing, and pasting, and deleting to make that happen?

                It would be mighty convenient if all that vital info could always be found in the OP.

                (I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner, but it would be quite useful if TDs would simply keep updating their OP Post #1 with all the vital event info as it develops. Even throughout the course of a series or league. Weekly info could be added each week as it becomes available. That way readers would not have to comb through pages of chatter that inevitably gets posted below the OP. Explicitly, I mean by using the Edit button that appears on the post only when you are logged in to the site.)
                I can do that (and did) but if you think that data will be updated each event then you are about to be sadly disappointed...

                Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                Or does here stand the last remaining man
                To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by couve discer View Post
                  when all 8 show up couldn't you have 2 cards of 6 and 1 card of 4 instead of 8 man groups
                  2 dubs teams and 2 singles
                  2 dubs teams and 2 singles
                  4 singles
                  That would work, but what I am talking about is NO MORE THAN FOUR PLAYERS ON A CARD PERIOD EVER.

                  Meaning, depending on turnout, you may have up to two ghost groups.

                  *) Grab a match sheet. Fill a scorecard with four players, at first it will likely be two singles contests. Keep filling out new cards, working your way through the match sheet. Fill each card with 4 players, it does not matter whether one doubles contest (4 players), or two singles contests (4 players). Treat a Cali player as 2 players for the sake of this exercise.

                  *) If your last card has 2 players on it already, and your next contest is doubles, set that card aside, and use a new card for the doubles contest. Use the card you set aside for the next singles contest you encounter. You should never have more than one card set aside.

                  *) When you run out of players on that match sheet, grab the next match sheet. Keep adding players to scorecards, 4 at a time. Don't start a new card if you your last one has 2 players on it. Just add a singles contest from your new match sheet. It's OK for two contests from different matches to be taking place on the same card.

                  *) Obviously, if you run out of singles contests, use one card for each remaining doubles contest.

                  *) Obviously, if you run out of doubles contests, fill out cards with two singles contests each.

                  *) If you end up with more than 18 cards, use ghost groups. Select one or two short holes that are far from each other. Preferably, choose short holes that come right after long holes. Assign 2 cards each to those holes, for example: "group 16", and "group 16G" (G for ghost). Group 16 will tee off on 16 at the start horn. Group 16G will tee off as soon as group 16 holes out. If group 15 arrives before 16G tees off, which they probably won't, they must wait for group 16G to finish hole 16 before they tee off. The wait won't be long.

                  *) If you can, put slower groups on those long holes that precede the ghost holes. That way, the waits they impose will be overwith early, and the ghost holes will flow even more smoothly.

                  *) Hold a player's meeting. Don't give out cards until the meeting is done. Explain the ghost group system. Use a 2-minute warning and a start signal. Remind folks:

                  * You get 3 minutes to look for a lost disc. The group must help look if you ask. Ask.
                  * If you throw a shot that looks like it might get lost, throw a provisional shot right away, as opposed to walking down the hole, looking with your group, running out of time, walking all the way back to your previous lie, and re-throwing. The provisional will save time, since if the original shot is lost, the player won't need to return to the previous lie and throw, instead, they just use the provisional shot (with the usual penalty). Of course, if the original shot is found, it must be played, and the provisional is picked up and ignored. (Also, teach players to use provisionals if the group can't agree on a ruling, don't hold up the entire field trying to find an official or outsider to rule. Have the player complete the hole under both scenarios, record both scores, and, as a group, ask the TD to rule after the round.)

                  Using ghost groups is the most efficient way to overfill a course. It minimizes wait times for all groups involved. Remember: it will work no matter what the turnout. There can't be more than 80 players, so you will never need more than 20 cards, and you won't ever need more than 4 players on a card.

                  Josh: I hope this detailed breakdown helps. Good luck with your Saturday herds! The challenge to keep groups flowing gets ever greater as the season continues, due to lack of daylight, inclement conditions, length and difficulty of courses, etc. I am confident that with these techniques, your skills in managing flow will outpace the opposing factors, keeping your Conference playing smoothly all season!
                  Last edited by TreeLove; October 9th, 2012, 05:14 PM.
                  Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                  Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                  Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                  Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                  Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
                    I can do that (and did) but if you think that data will be updated each event then you are about to be sadly disappointed...

                    All I am saying is if you are going to post vitals, edit your OP and put them in there. I don't care if you don't post anything at all, but if you do, would you please post add it to the OP. That goes for all TDs. If you don't you don't, but it did not hurt to ask, and it seems to me like an equal amount of effort.

                    Again, I don't care if you don't post anything. We all know where to look, and we all know how hard it is to find what you need - hell, I WROTE the damn spreadsheets. But what I wonder is, if that's the case, why did you post anything at all? Intentional or not, it is going to set an expectation with readers. Why not simply post a hyperlink, and send folks to the website from day one? Hell, if you did that, they probably wouldn't answer back with a million questions and comments, like we already have! No answers would mean no questions (or at least they would die off after a while)...
                    Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                    Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                    Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                    Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                    Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I think is the most beneficial solution for all, is to continue to streamline efficiency. The faster and easier we can make it to enter data, make calculations, and post information, the easier it will be for all.

                      Honestly, Excel and Yahoo Groups are really inefficient solutions. But that's all I knew when I wrote the spreadsheets. Hell, it's about all I know now! But we have made massive strides. The improvements we have made (and will continue to make) to the spreadsheets have been hugely beneficial. And dividing the work load has been instrumental, help from Chris, Dave, Jeff, and the massive contributions of Josh and Eric are really going to help this league hum.

                      If we had the skills to implement solutions like Access, MySQL, etc., we could probably revolutionize it. I am always impressed by the Tuesday Twos sites that Ken made - I think something like that would be the pinnacle to aspire to!

                      In closing, this is not a complaint, but a suggestion I thought would be a simple one. I am not asking you to post anything, just asking that if you do, would you please consider posting it all in one post. If you don't post anything, well that should be even easier for you!

                      As my ratings prove (drop in the summer, rise in the winter) , Team Disc Golf is the most fun disc golf event I play in. I eagerly look forward to each event, I lavish in the victories, and lament the losses. I thank you sincerely for keeping this league going, bigger and better, year after year. And I will see you at the next scoring meeting, Oct 22, after our next TDG victory! Go! Win!
                      Last edited by TreeLove; October 9th, 2012, 06:31 PM.
                      Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                      Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                      Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                      Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                      Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Jordan,
                        Looks like I made a mistake...
                        I played both doubles matches. I had thought that the only penalty for playing both dubs was the inability to get a 7th man point, which The Discrupters wouldn't have received in any event.

                        Now I re-read the rules, again, and now see my error. However, according to:
                        3.2.2.2.1. The 2nd doubles match played is forfeit if a player plays both doubles matches.

                        I believe that means the first dubs match should have been awarded to The Discrupters. We would appreciate that correction.

                        I apologize to my teammates for not ensuring we had the clean sweep of the GBP as I'd planned.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          That's a tricky one. It gets me too. It didn't change from last year, either, nor did the 7-man point (just now you can do it without all your players, since teams expanded from 7 to 8 players), as Jordan explained to me last night.

                          The simplest way I have heard it phrased is:

                          "You can't hide a player in doubles."

                          with the follow-up of:

                          "A player MUST play at least ONE singles round, or NONE of their rounds count."

                          Wes, sounds like that that would supersede what you quoted above, and it would mean that none of the rounds of the player that played only doubles would count.

                          PS: Of course, it also means that the rounds of any PARTNERS of a player who played only doubles would not count either.

                          Jordan, please correct me if I am wrong, this is not an official post, but I think I am pretty freshly informed on this.
                          Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                          Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                          Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                          Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                          Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            TL-
                            Makes some sense, but I am trying to go by the published rules, which appear to indicate otherwise.
                            Frankly, I'd like to salvage something from my play.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Lund View Post
                              The yahoo site: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/teamdiscgolf/

                              You can also now find that information on the "schedule and results" page of the new www.teamdiscgolf.com website.

                              Thank you!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
                                That would work, but what I am talking about is NO MORE THAN FOUR PLAYERS ON A CARD PERIOD EVER.

                                Meaning, depending on turnout, you may have up to two ghost groups.

                                *) Grab a match sheet. Fill a scorecard with four players, at first it will likely be two singles contests. Keep filling out new cards, working your way through the match sheet. Fill each card with 4 players, it does not matter whether one doubles contest (4 players), or two singles contests (4 players). Treat a Cali player as 2 players for the sake of this exercise.

                                *) If your last card has 2 players on it already, and your next contest is doubles, set that card aside, and use a new card for the doubles contest. Use the card you set aside for the next singles contest you encounter. You should never have more than one card set aside.

                                *) When you run out of players on that match sheet, grab the next match sheet. Keep adding players to scorecards, 4 at a time. Don't start a new card if you your last one has 2 players on it. Just add a singles contest from your new match sheet. It's OK for two contests from different matches to be taking place on the same card.

                                *) Obviously, if you run out of singles contests, use one card for each remaining doubles contest.

                                *) Obviously, if you run out of doubles contests, fill out cards with two singles contests each.

                                *) If you end up with more than 18 cards, use ghost groups. Select one or two short holes that are far from each other. Preferably, choose short holes that come right after long holes. Assign 2 cards each to those holes, for example: "group 16", and "group 16G" (G for ghost). Group 16 will tee off on 16 at the start horn. Group 16G will tee off as soon as group 16 holes out. If group 15 arrives before 16G tees off, which they probably won't, they must wait for group 16G to finish hole 16 before they tee off. The wait won't be long.

                                *) If you can, put slower groups on those long holes that precede the ghost holes. That way, the waits they impose will be overwith early, and the ghost holes will flow even more smoothly.

                                *) Hold a player's meeting. Don't give out cards until the meeting is done. Explain the ghost group system. Use a 2-minute warning and a start signal. Remind folks:

                                * You get 3 minutes to look for a lost disc. The group must help look if you ask. Ask.
                                * If you throw a shot that looks like it might get lost, throw a provisional shot right away, as opposed to walking down the hole, looking with your group, running out of time, walking all the way back to your previous lie, and re-throwing. The provisional will save time, since if the original shot is lost, the player won't need to return to the previous lie and throw, instead, they just use the provisional shot (with the usual penalty). Of course, if the original shot is found, it must be played, and the provisional is picked up and ignored. (Also, teach players to use provisionals if the group can't agree on a ruling, don't hold up the entire field trying to find an official or outsider to rule. Have the player complete the hole under both scenarios, record both scores, and, as a group, ask the TD to rule after the round.)

                                Using ghost groups is the most efficient way to overfill a course. It minimizes wait times for all groups involved. Remember: it will work no matter what the turnout. There can't be more than 80 players, so you will never need more than 20 cards, and you won't ever need more than 4 players on a card.

                                Josh: I hope this detailed breakdown helps. Good luck with your Saturday herds! The challenge to keep groups flowing gets ever greater as the season continues, due to lack of daylight, inclement conditions, length and difficulty of courses, etc. I am confident that with these techniques, your skills in managing flow will outpace the opposing factors, keeping your Conference playing smoothly all season!








                                I think I'll take a few of these elements and blend them in, but I like the idea of keeping the 3-score cards per mach the same, and not burning up a bunch of paper, then grinding on all the teams to force them into 4-person tee pads, and trying to explain to everyone the ghost group at each event. It triples the match ups a layouts time frames for me and the players. I think 1-dubs match and 1 singles tee puts 6-per pad (But we've done that for years with 0 problems), and the lead group plays 4-singles. That keeps card and clipboard tracking down, and if I skip a hole every 3rd tee pad between groups only the last group and the 1st group could bump into one another. Maybe that one as a ghost group would make sense to create space. Next season though I would love to have you to join a Saturday team, and show me how to run it the Stern method.....
                                PDGA# 49616
                                Stumptown# 353
                                OTDG: Young Guns - SAT

                                Comment

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