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  • I know Jub put in a bunch of time and I thank him for doing this. I had a good time playing the event and know it was only due to jubs work. I have no problem with a TD taking some cash to compensate for their work. However I don't agree with taking more than the winner of the event. I would likely be upset if I traveled to the event and didn't feel that I had a chance to be compensated for my expenses.

    The payout may have seemed poor due to the amount of spots that were paid out also. I shot better than 31 players and made a profit of $20.
    I became curious as to why 17 out of 38 places were paid with last cash getting $35 when the buy in was $65? I think that last cash should be no less that money back. If you lose any cash you should be losing all your cash. I prefer top heavy prize pools.

    I was given the oportunity to speak up about the pay out before the end of the event but decided not to because I wanted to focus on preparing myself for my upcoming round. The pay out was posted but the deduction for pocket was not. Atleast I didn't see it anywhere. Probably for the best because I know there would be players that would be livid about this.

    As a player that attempts to profit from playing in tournaments I dont like to see the TD take so much. But as a player that enjoys playing in events I know that TDs should be compensated in some way. Where do we draw the line? Our events don't bring in enough cash to make money for both the players and the TDs. I Think too much money was taken from the pot and the money that was left was spread too thin.

    I am not too concerned but not fully ok with it either. I guess it will make me think a bit harder about playing the event next year but it isn't going to keep me out for sure, as of now. I would not travel to the event with the payout spread so thin. Luckily I don't have to worry about that.

    Again I thank you Jub for your work. You got $5.00 I can borrow?
    Last edited by REDFIVE; March 30th, 2011, 10:31 PM.
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    • Thanks Chris Your post was well thought out.

      The way almost all events are set up now the TD has the opportunity to make more then any contestant. My cut was off the entire field not just one section so comparing it to just the Open winner only seems nit picky. Would you rather I nickled and dimed the purse to death same end but easier to rationalize. I personally asked Dave if $8 per player was too much and he said NO.

      I have attached the posted payout sheet from the weekend. The handwritten column on the left is the expense section.

      As far as top loading I used the recommended 45% Voalkes formula. I have noticed that no matter how many players or how much they paid the payout is always about the same. I agree that last cash should be your entry fee back minus fee's of course. After all when you pay in it's the events money and up to the TD's to decide where it goes within reason that is.

      I am curious why the TD is the only one who is asked to add cash. Unlike the Am's not one open player even considered adding cash or offered to sponsor. Is it because the Am's like extra stuff? or is it because the Pros are use to only playing for their entry fees?

      So my question's are
      What deductions are you willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club, national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

      What deductions are you not willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

      Is an Open field Only just a glorified Ace Pot?

      What are you willing to part with? like the course being pristine? no trophies?


      Needless to say I was available to discuss over the weekend and will be most anytime in the future and yes Chris I can float you a finski
      Last edited by LJ Jubner; February 23rd, 2012, 07:32 AM.
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      • Originally posted by cefire View Post
        My guess, $0.05 per hour - good point Dan!

        Another interesting figure:

        Number of people playing CSI that were at the last two workparties = 0

        Certainly not expecting those living far away to come as they have their own courses to tend to but this is still an interesting stat (edit: this is neither a justification for Jub or the tournament payout or anything but an interesting figure regarding average workparty participation in the area)
        Um...I attended a work party the week of CSI, helping weed whack the course. It actually affected my play because all the weed whacking inflamed my tendinitis and I had to drop out in the second round. Lesson learned, don't do that the week of the tournament, but I WILL come out and help again just not the week of the tournament.

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        • I consider 4 to be a proper number for prize qualification. I believe the PDGA defines a division as two or more players. You can simply deduct the cost of the prize from the 1st place scrip and call it good.

          "This is what you're all playing for, folks. They are sweet!" Jub lifts trophy and speaks on 3/19/11

          It now resides in my studio on top of one of my amps, and I think of Dan everytime I see it. It's the only trophy I have that doesn't stay in my game room since Dan and I were occassional musical collaborators, and I'm happy to have a momento of him when I fire up the guitars.

          Thanks for the tournament, Jub!



          Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
          You raise some interesting points
          How many players need to be in a field to offer a trophy? Not the division but actual number of players? 2?,3?

          My trophies come in two parts the actual trophy and the custom top.

          Getty I could have just as easily gave you the custom top ONLY and had it count as a trophy. As far as scrip goes you can still cash it in.
          Panda...it's what's for dinner!

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          • Originally posted by cefire View Post
            ...Number of people playing CSI that were at the last two workparties = 0
            ...but an interesting figure regarding average work party participation in the area)
            Andrew, I know that more Am's showed for the work parties then the Opens did. Aaron Holley comes to mind as the only one to work and play, Bill Clark worked but could not play. I have also noticed more older Am's participate.

            Here is the list of volunteers who helped get the course ready
            The Bangerz weekend Andrew could you please list them here I would not want to forget anyone

            The weekday workers
            Am Week of 15 hrs each Cap'n Jack, M.A.M. (Ray) Bill and Aaron, Erik's friend larry

            Erik Illg the new course superintendent was invaluable his time and effort was critical.

            About 35 hrs of my time was spent with a blower, a rake and a tarp
            holes 4,7,8, 9 and 11-18. By doing this now I made it much easier for the grass to grow and easier to and on the mower as the season progresses.
            rewindb.com

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            • Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
              So my question's are
              What deductions are you willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club, national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

              What deductions are you not willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

              Is an Open field Only just a glorified Ace Pot?

              What are you willing to part with? like the course being pristine? no trophies?
              None of these questions are black and white. Every one of them is a "how much" question. Maybe a 1-10 scale would be an accurate way to get feed back.

              Back to work, I'll try to remember to answer them later.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sean Phillips View Post
                None of these questions are black and white. Every one of them is a "how much" question. .
                Exactly my point why are some ok and others not?
                and
                at what point does it become to much?
                One thing is for sure TD compensation is in the near future.
                rewindb.com

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                • why do TD's have to get paid?

                  I do not agree with TD's getting paid for x-c-b tiers !!!!!
                  All the players that are at the work parties are not getting paid so why should the TD? There are other players helping out like the club members should they be paid also?
                  This is a problem that we are coming up against and i think we as players should END it this year.
                  We need to make these TD's that are going to take money for themselves make that known before we sign up and pay, not Sunday morning when we have no say to change it. We are there to golf and compete not dicker with the TD over payout.
                  WE AS PLAYERS NEED TO CHANGE THIS!!!! STAND UP AND SAY NO MORE
                  Ask all TD'S before you sign up if they are taking money out to pay themselves. better yet lets make them post it in the flyer or online so we know.
                  Is this a standard for all inland series events?
                  JUB THIS STINKS and most players at your event all agreed that it is you and the way you run your event is hokey to say the least. to bad they can only complain to other players and not the guy stealing their money and setting a standard for greed and crappy payouts. The more this happens and TD's get away with it the harder it will be to change it later. WE AS PLAYERS CAN STOP THIS

                  MAY 14TH & 15TH STEILY EVENT WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY MONEY FOR THE TD. Will be donating my time for the growth of disc golf in my community.
                  We all should take better care in our courses

                  Comment


                  • Here is a little survey I whipped up for us to try out. Please only take it once and only if you played

                    <a href="http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=0lwq4ns34oqas6w895646" >

                    Click here to take our Online Survey

                    </a>
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                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Discgolfingkilmers View Post
                      This is a problem that we are coming up against and i think we as players should END it this year. We need to make these TD's that are going to take money for themselves make that known before we sign up and pay, not Sunday morning when we have no say to change it. We are there to golf and compete not dicker with the TD over payout.
                      WE AS PLAYERS NEED TO CHANGE THIS!!!! STAND UP AND SAY NO MORE
                      Ask all TD'S before you sign up if they are taking money out to pay themselves. better yet lets make them post it in the fl yer or online so we know.
                      This policy will at some point put you up against the PDGA and it's policies

                      Furthermore, Then the same TD's need to publish all of their books to see what and where they made money from both Open and AMATEUR. My payout was posted Sat afternoon, From that point forward if you choose not to question it it's your fault not mine

                      Originally posted by Discgolfingkilmers View Post
                      All the players that are at the work parties are not getting paid so why should the TD? There are other players helping out like the club members should they be paid also?
                      .
                      The chainbangerz were actually offered club membership for their volunteerism so in away they were paid + the $3 per player also went to the club.

                      Originally posted by Discgolfingkilmers View Post
                      This is a problem that we are coming up against and i think we as players should END it this year. We need to make these TD's that are going to take money for themselves make that known before we sign up and pay, not Sunday morning when we have no say to change it. We are there to golf and compete not dicker with the TD over payout.

                      WE AS PLAYERS NEED TO CHANGE THIS!!!! STAND UP AND SAY NO MORE
                      Ask all TD'S before you sign up if they are taking money out to pay themselves. better yet lets make them post it in the flyer or online so we know.
                      I don't know if you remember or not Mark but I was the first one to even consider publishing my deductions now it's common place. and Yes in the future my flyers will state that as TD I will be getting an established % of the total entries collected

                      Originally posted by Discgolfingkilmers View Post
                      Is this a standard for all inland series events?.

                      Nope, but they do offer other guidelines concerning deductions and their acceptable amounts


                      Originally posted by Discgolfingkilmers View Post
                      MAY 14TH & 15TH STEILY EVENT WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY MONEY FOR THE TD. Will be donating my time for the growth of disc golf in my community.
                      Well good luck finding people to do it more then once or twice and By spending the time, SeaTac current conditions benefit the same community EVERYDAY not just on Tournament weekends
                      rewindb.com

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                        Exactly my point why are some ok and others not?
                        and
                        at what point does it become to much?
                        One thing is for sure TD compensation is in the near future.
                        You're doing the correct thing in my opinion. Ask for feedback, change accordingly, then let capitalism do it's thing.

                        Comment


                        • Sorry "Mine all Mine"! I knew I would probably miss someone, but you and Jub are right (and I was thinking mainly about the Pro weekend since that is where the payout discussion went!) - I don't have "the list" of who was there at the Bangerz work party, you all know who you are!, but there were a couple who worked and played.

                          We do have a great dedicated (but small) group who works on the course - I just wish we had more!
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                          • Originally posted by cefire View Post
                            Sorry "Mine all Mine"! I knew I would probably miss someone, but you and Jub are right (and I was thinking mainly about the Pro weekend since that is where the payout discussion went!) - I don't have "the list" of who was there at the Bangerz work party, you all know who you are!, but there were a couple who worked and played.

                            We do have a great dedicated (but small) group who works on the course - I just wish we had more!
                            It's safe to say 15 on Sat worked about 5 hrs each? 12 or so on Sunday about 4 hrs. Hey it sounds like Kilmer has some time maybe he can drive the 40 min one way to help. lol
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                            • First survey Am
                              To clarify I did not take anything from the Am weekend. the profit was $29
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                              • Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                                First survey Am
                                To clarify I did not take anything from the Am weekend. the profit was $29
                                here is the same form for the AM weekend
                                Last edited by LJ Jubner; February 23rd, 2012, 07:32 AM.
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