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  • #91
    At the expense of continuing a thread drift, my calculations are:

    Top-down scoring from 100
    Average all WA series event points
    Add Ironman points, 2 per event played beyond the 5 needed to qualify

    That method produces:

    Open Men
    100.17 Mike Leslie
    99.2 Nate Sexton
    98.86 Mike Werth
    Chandler, Ed D., Aaron Holley, Kirk McAllister, Orion, Heath Kinton

    Tuffi is the only player still able to qualify if she plays the Autumn Classic

    Advanced
    94.86 Chris Gilberts
    94.80 Jesse Garcia
    94.33 Shawn Landry
    Jamie Richards, Steve McLain, Jeremy Craig, ....

    better place higher than Jesse at Steilly, Chris- that's a slim lead!

    other leaders:

    Masters Kevin Holmes
    GM Stimpi
    Adv Masters Todd Bates
    Adv Grands are you kidding me? Should be leading Adv, at least
    Int Rahn Henderson
    Int Women Jenni Saunders

    We don't really show any "qualifying" juniors, but Jordan Craig and Spencer have played some good golf this year.
    The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

    Comment


    • #92
      Where did all those decimal values come from? You are using a proportional system - 100 to 10 for first to last, perhaps?

      I had assumed an integer system. In WA case, 100 for 1st, 99 for 2nd, 98 for 3rd, etc.

      Actually, I think proportional systems are pretty fair, maybe even more fair than the 1-up integer system used by Lunchtime League, which places a premium on large turnouts, and perhaps fails to reward sufficiently for great rounds against small fields. Of course, proportional systems require precise mathematics to be executed fairly.

      Iron Man: OR gives 1 pt for every event played. Even if giving 1 or 2 , and whether 1 or 2 per event or events over qual, the total would still be integer.

      Anyway, wow.
      Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
      Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
      Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
      Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
      Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

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      • #93
        The decimals come from averaging your placements. Nate has 1 win (Windy River) and 4 2nd place finishes. Average those and you get 99.20.

        I've spent a lot of thought on different points theories, and would enjoy keeping track of any scoring system the WA state series chooses, based upon suggestions in this thread. How's that for bringing a thread drift full circle, hey?
        The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

        Comment


        • #94
          Points

          I was thinking about the WA points over the weekend. How about a modifier.

          field >11 regular 12,11,10 etc
          12-21 x 2
          22-33 x 3
          34-45 x 4
          It certainly address the size of field issue. Note I decided on these numbers because they work on the 100 points now in use and it considered the avg attendance per division over the past years. Ties get same points no splits.

          I also saw the INW Series offered the points to players who TD events. That makes it attractive for assistance and you are not penalized for running an event.

          What do you think?


          Web Q is it possible to have sub threads. It would allow better communication about specific issues? Like one for Format, One points, organization etc.
          Last edited by LJ Jubner; September 9th, 2009, 07:44 PM. Reason: Defined answer with underline
          rewindb.com

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by ChUcK View Post
            The decimals come from averaging your placements. Nate has 1 win (Windy River) and 4 2nd place finishes. Average those and you get 99.20.
            I get it. Interesting.
            Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
            Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
            Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
            Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
            Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

            Comment


            • #96
              I can't wait to see the breakdown of expenditures for the series. I played ALL 8 Events and took 2nd place/ AM1...and all I got was a qualifier shirt. Doesn't seem right to me.
              A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by DoubleDees View Post
                Perhaps making the WA series an A tier schedule with 4 events. Each club could run fundraiser events or whatnot for their "big" one. I would like to see this happen.

                What is the incentive for making events an A Tier?

                The $ MANDATED are kind of high......If you run a QUALITY
                B Tier with the same added cash you will get the players BUT exclude the MANDATES from the PDGA.

                Just making an event an A Tier DOES NOT make a good event. NOR does it assure player attendence.

                An event that is run well, takes care of it players and properly promoted will be successful REGARDLESS of it Tier level.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Magilla View Post
                  What is the incentive for making events an A Tier?

                  The $ MANDATED are kind of high......If you run a QUALITY
                  B Tier with the same added cash you will get the players BUT exclude the MANDATES from the PDGA.

                  Just making an event an A Tier DOES NOT make a good event. NOR does it assure player attendance.

                  An event that is run well, takes care of it players and properly promoted will be successful REGARDLESS of it Tier level.

                  Mags, You raise an interesting point. Tier level only matters in regards to points earned. Why not have C tier points/fees with A tier payout. Cost effective and most beneficial at local level.
                  rewindb.com

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                    Mags, You raise an interesting point. Tier level only matters in regards to points earned. Why not have C tier points/fees with A tier payout. Cost effective and most beneficial at local level.
                    c tiers are not calced into world rankings. making events a tiers also make them more expensive. thus increasing the prize pool. thus making series fees taken out less noticeable. 5 out of 60 entry is more noticeable than 5 out of 100. Im the one thats for 200$ pro entries though... I dont see that going over to well either

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DoubleDees View Post
                      c tiers are not calced into world rankings. making events a tiers also make them more expensive. thus increasing the prize pool. thus making series fees taken out less noticeable. 5 out of 60 entry is more noticeable than 5 out of 100. Im the one thats for 200$ pro entries though... I dont see that going over to well either
                      Why is it that the top pros in a region want higher entry fees?

                      Higher entry fees WILL NOT bring you more payout...just fewer players willing to "donate".



                      Comment


                      • My thought is... A tier shows a guarantee added cash for those playing open, the baskets themselves are pdga approved as compared to "recomended" in B tier or less, complimentary insurance as opposed to $50 for B tier, 54 holes minimum for A tier as opposed to 36 for B tier, Amatuer minimum 110% payout as opposed to 100% for B tier.
                        A tier player package minimum $25 each as opposed to $10 for B tier. (The oregon series has always done a bigger players package as opposed to NorCal tendency to barely make the minimum on their players packages).
                        There are higher management fees that can be taken out by the TD and it's staff for their time and expenses in A tier than B tier. A tier has 2 days to report to PDGA as opposed to 2 weeks for B tier.
                        More non playing officials are required on course(s) than B tiers... those are a few things I know of off top of my head and from PDGA website.
                        I would probably use some of that information and post it on the event flyer to attract more players if going for an A tier, like valued players pack for ams and added cash for pros etc...
                        Being A tier sanctioned has more "guarantee" behind it generally, which is what players want, more bang for the buck. But non pdga members cannot play A tiers so.....
                        lunch time is over soon. toodles..

                        Comment


                        • Oof. Having all A-tiers would be great, but I know I wouldn't be eager to volunteer to TD for one in the current state of things. That's a lot of responsibility to obtain added cash, and it's enough of a burden just to get the $300 needed for B tiers as it is now. Maybe one day disc golf will be popular enough in Washington that getting the added cash for a series of A tiers won't be a huge issue, but we're not there yet. Gotta crawl before we can run.
                          Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                          Comment


                          • 2-3 fundraisers would get you over the $1500 mark for an A tier easily. And 1-2 A tiers a year would suffice in Washington as of now I would assume. And it's $500 for B tiers...
                            Ideas for fundraisers...
                            Buy CFR discs, sell them. 75 discs cost under $500, sell for 16 dollars a peice fundraises $700+; $20 each makes it 1kish
                            1 big raffle during the tournament raises 200-500
                            Hole sponsors get 250-1k
                            The list goes on for ideas, but point is, it's not that hard to get the money for an A tier, but it takes work regardless.
                            The big part seperating an A tier and a B tier is that a B tier can be planned 2 months beforehand, while an A tier must be sanctioned/approved by Dec 31st so the supertour schedule is set in place for the year with the national schedule, this makes scheduling for the traverlers easy. Get 5-10 1k rated players committed, and the rest will fall in place, usually...

                            Comment


                            • The whole concept proposed here seems a bit out of whack. Why should one have to fundraise for A tier events via local resources (i.e., selling raffle tickets to local players, selling overpriced discs to local players) when these resources are immediately distributed externally after the tournament? I'm not getting why average players or casual players should have to support the burden of creating pro purses...and I'm a pro! I would venture to say that most players play for the fun and competition of tournaments, not for the cash and while its cool to attract the big name players for some people - others would rather just play disc golf! It just doesn't make much sense to use local resources to support traveling players when our courses need work. IMO - these types of fundraisers are better used for local efforts like improving courses, adding payout to all divisions, free tournament lunch, or better yet, to charity.

                              Support for touring professionals should come from external sponsorship sources and companies (who see benefit from investing $$$), not from other players (who don't see any benefit).

                              That doesn't even factor in the practicality of these types of events. CFR discs are getting difficult to sell as the market is now getting saturated with plastic and good luck selling more than a few $20 raffle tickets. The math here all adds up but the reality is that it is WAY!!! more difficult to put in place. Its certainly workable to have an A-tier event in Washington but the amount of resources needed to do that just seems like a waste to me when a really high quality B or even C-tier event has almost all the benefits of an A-tier event (except higher payout to the top 5% of disc golfers).
                              Last edited by cefire; September 22nd, 2009, 06:13 PM.
                              'Weekend 4 Women':
                              Saturday, June 30th - Sudoku Showdown II - FREE PDGA XC Tier
                              Sunday, July 1st - Seattle SuperClassic - FREE PDGA XC Tier

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                              • Here's my two cents worth.

                                Being on the far East side of the state we have never had the opportunity to share ideas about the way the WSS has been or should be run. It's always been, here's the guidelines, you must buy these discs, send us the Series Fees, thank you very much.

                                Not many competitors from Spokane ever qualify for the WSS because even Tri Cities and Walla Walla are traveling tournaments. This is the reason that the Inland Northwest Series was created and in 2009 this series accrued $3800 for payout at the Finals. This was in addition to the tournament payout itself.

                                Spokane now has four PDGA events annually, 3 "B" Tier and 1 "C" Tier. All are two day events and two of them are multiple course events.

                                So here's my thoughts. Washington State Series events should be quality PDGA sanctioned, "B" Tier minimum, two day tournaments. While bigger doesn't always mean better, events with multiple courses will accomodate more competitors, resulting in more funds accrued for the finals and larger divisions in which to compete. Series events should be the only PDGA event held in the State on their respective weekends. The Series should have six events and a Series Finals. Two events held on the west side, two held on the east side and two held in the middle of the state. These events would be picked by TD's bidding on the opportunity to hold a Series event. There would be a minimum bid of $100 per event with this money going to the Overalls purse, up front like the sanction fee. The Finals would be bid upon by TD's for the honor of holding the Washington State Series Championships (this event would preferably be an "A" Tier tournament).

                                Competitors would have to compete in three events to qualify for the Finals, but would be able to take their points from their best four events to the Finals (this helps to increase participation in smaller divisions at the Finals). This system effectively allows competitors from across the state (mainly from the middle and east sides) to compete in the Series without having to spend large sums of cash to qualify for the Finals.

                                This system would create a Series of quality events and an equitable method of including all of Washinton's disc golfers.
                                Fly free and straight to the pin!

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