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  • #31
    Whoa there, Big Fella

    Hey KP35, the same thing happened the first tournament I ran. It was the Inaugural Lilac City Open in Spokane. There was a statement made by ??someone?? that we were gonna pay 1st place a $$GRAND$$. That was my goal and I failed miserably and disappointed Dave Feldberg by only paying 1st Place $490. He may never play in Spokane again, although I hope some day he will. I like you only had 15 or 16 Pro Open players.

    Anyone that has run a big money tournament knows that you need over 40 Pro Open competitors, paying $80 each and at least $1750 added to the Pro Open division to make 1st Place worth a $1000.

    It would seem to me that the Pro Open competitors would also know that you can't have a $1000 1st place prize with 16 competitors paying $50 to play. That's only $752 paid into the purse by the players themselves. As the TD you would have to come up with and additional $4,010 added cash to make 1st Place worth $1000. And that's only the one division, added cash has to be spread across all the pro dividions.

    KP35, I think that you did an excellent job running your first PDGA event. I've never been to a tournament where they take you to the bar and buy drinks. Or had free camping, or had Bavarian music played. I believe that a great time was had by 99% of the people.

    Oh, and one other thing, there not supposed to be any whining in disc golf!! If all disc golfers would remember this one fact every tournament would be fun for all.

    So you'll just have to understand that people will be disappointed even when you run a great tournament and that most disc golfers have no idea what it takes to put together a sanctioned PDGA event, God Bless Them.

    Remember that these Forums are just a whipping post or maybe a whining post for the unhappy players as well as place for Thank you post or atta boy post for the happy players. Most of the people who post on these sites hide behind an avatar.

    So Kevin, don't get caught up in everyone else's negativity. And for sure don't listen to Sam's B#LL SH*T because I'm sure that he or she hasn't taken the time to get to know you and could care less about anything you accomplished or how you feel.

    If you look at the emoticons, you'll see an almost exact representation of all the folks who come to a disc golf tournament. As the TD you should be this one and let those that want to be this one be the one they want to be.

    And that's my two cents for what it's worth. Which ain't much these days.
    Fly free and straight to the pin!

    Comment


    • #32
      Man... why haven't I been to a Washington tournament (that was not at the Mudd) in over 3 years? Oh yeah... this would be one of the major reasons why right here.
      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
      ~Annika SŲrenstam

      Comment


      • #33
        Nominated for post of the year. I put my favorite parts, which were many, in bold.

        Well done, Bob.

        Originally posted by Wobbly Bob View Post
        Hey KP35, the same thing happened the first tournament I ran. It was the Inaugural Lilac City Open in Spokane. There was a statement made by ??someone?? that we were gonna pay 1st place a $$GRAND$$. That was my goal and I failed miserably and disappointed Dave Feldberg by only paying 1st Place $490. He may never play in Spokane again, although I hope some day he will. I like you only had 15 or 16 Pro Open players.

        Anyone that has run a big money tournament knows that you need over 40 Pro Open competitors, paying $80 each and at least $1750 added to the Pro Open division to make 1st Place worth a $1000.

        It would seem to me that the Pro Open competitors would also know that you can't have a $1000 1st place prize with 16 competitors paying $50 to play. That's only $752 paid into the purse by the players themselves. As the TD you would have to come up with and additional $4,010 added cash to make 1st Place worth $1000. And that's only the one division, added cash has to be spread across all the pro dividions.

        KP35, I think that you did an excellent job running your first PDGA event. I've never been to a tournament where they take you to the bar and buy drinks. Or had free camping, or had Bavarian music played. I believe that a great time was had by 99% of the people.

        Oh, and one other thing, there not supposed to be any whining in disc golf!! If all disc golfers would remember this one fact every tournament would be fun for all.

        So you'll just have to understand that people will be disappointed even when you run a great tournament and that most disc golfers have no idea what it takes to put together a sanctioned PDGA event, God Bless Them.

        Remember that these Forums are just a whipping post or maybe a whining post for the unhappy players as well as place for Thank you post or atta boy post for the happy players. Most of the people who post on these sites hide behind an avatar.

        So Kevin, don't get caught up in everyone else's negativity. And for sure don't listen to Sam's B#LL SH*T because I'm sure that he or she hasn't taken the time to get to know you and could care less about anything you accomplished or how you feel.

        If you look at the emoticons, you'll see an almost exact representation of all the folks who come to a disc golf tournament. As the TD you should be this one and let those that want to be this one be the one they want to be.

        And that's my two cents for what it's worth. Which ain't much these days.

        Comment


        • #34
          Jeez. Is it just me or have things been blown WAY out of proportion here? It sounds to me that nearly everyone had a great time at this tournament, and that some of the pros just were disappointed that they didn't get as much as they were expecting. I don't get the impression that the TDs were claiming that the payout was going to be as large as the pros were expecting, but that the buzz hyped it up from being a "goal" to being a "guarantee". It's unfortunate that expectations got higher than the reality, but come on, lets keep things in perspective...$500+ for 1st place in a B-tier is a lot higher than most tournaments you'll find. Heck, look at GNO, one of the premier events in OR, right? And has been for many years. There was a field 3 times the size of FZD's and 1st place barely cracked $400. I'm not knocking GNO, just pointing out that to get the payout where it was for FZD took a huge amount of added cash--and all for a 1st ever event by newer TDs.

          I wish I could have made it out there myself, it sounds like it was a great time. I would just suggest that in the future, keep your goals high, but keep them private, the rumor mill can be a formidable opponent.
          Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

          Comment


          • #35
            Amen to that part about the RUMOR MILL!!
            Fly free and straight to the pin!

            Comment


            • #36
              I think that the response to the expression of disappointment set me off more than anything else. Like... it's not OK to express it for some reason?

              I don't think that the winner of the GNO was disappointed with the payout because I don't think that the payout was advertised to be twice what it turned out to be.
              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
              ~Annika SŲrenstam

              Comment


              • #37
                I think an overlooked highlight of Kevin's post was the fact that Barsby wasn't promised anything.

                Thanks, Snap, I grew up in Auburn and know the area quite well.
                The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

                Comment


                • #38
                  And yet... Barsby felt like he was. What's weird to me is that it doesn't seem that Washington TDs care all that much if they piss off touring pros by not meeting the expectations they set. Kind of seems like they do not care if they come back or not nor care about the reputation they will get when these touring pros talk to other touring pros.

                  Lastly, there were even earlier posts commenting on the size of the advertised payout and how it fell short of what was put out there. Funny how that is now being swept under the rug.
                  ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                  ~Annika SŲrenstam

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sam View Post
                    I don't think that the winner of the GNO was disappointed with the payout because I don't think that the payout was advertised to be twice what it turned out to be.
                    That's just the thing though. I don't think it WAS advertised to be twice what it turned out to be. I'd heard that there was going to be a bunch of added cash, but never heard that there was going to be a "guaranteed $1000 to first place" or anything like that. If it had stated something along those lines on the flier, but then didn't meet that, then yes, that would be something to complain about. I don't think anything was advertised as such though...only that there was going to be $4000 of added cash. Sounds to me that the TDs wanted to be able to pay out $1000 to 1st, somebody caught wind of that, and somewhere in the mix that got interpreted to the DG community that yes, they would pay out $1000 to 1st.
                    Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      But it clearly was advertised as being higher than it turned out to be, right? I don't think Nate Sexton made that up. I also don't think Chris Fry was making something up by saying it was lower than advertised. Do you?

                      I think that we agree that the TD made a BIG mistake by setting expectations this high - even if that was not his intention to do so. Had he simply said, "whoops! My bad" the whole thing would have been forgiven and done, I am sure. Instead, there is the implication that Barsby is lying and whining about something unreasonable and that is a completely dick move on the TD's part, in my opinion.
                      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                      ~Annika SŲrenstam

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        No, I'm not insinuating that anybody made anything up, simply that there seems to have been a misunderstanding.
                        Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          It was a misunderstanding that even though there was 4200 dollars added. That in hindsight, not all of that actually goes to added cash to the pro's. There are other expenses that have to be deducted from what is add cash. Such as portable toilets, park fees(which we regret not knowing about in advance of the tourney), trailers to pick up and haul to borrowed baskets, etc. As a 1st time TD, it was unclear that by me saying there was that much money added. That it was was assumed and expected that was cash added just to the pro division.(my/our mistake) I will do my best to never confuse the two in the future. As far as Barsby goes I still wish he would contact me directly, so we might be able to work out something that is fair to him. we were never trying to mislead him or anyone else. He was amazing to watch throw, and we thank him for coming.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            As the TD for the recent ODDGC, which is the equivalent to BSF in Deaf to hearing comparison, I faced alot of the same issues that are being discussed on this thread. Pros will always bugggg the TD for how much to expect in the payout. TD's will let on what they hope for, and most of the time in these hopes, they have factored in a certain amount of registered players and can count on those entry fees to push the payout to the desired/hoped amount. Sometimes the TD gets lucky and everyone goes, sometimes you get a few superstars and the tournament dosent fill up. The players themselves have to figure out that since there is a low number of entrys, expect the payout to be what it is and accept what it is because the TD is the one working his or her butt off to make it as big as a payout can be.
                            Example; I tried to get at least 45 people to go, i had 30 pre registered and 12-13 verbals which put me up to near 45, which was my goal and would guarantee my advertised hopes of the cash payout amounts. I verbally said guarantee $300 to first and depending on entry fees could be well over $500. Now as you can see, those verbals never showed up, their loss, since they missed out on everything.
                            Now obviously since the turn out was the biggest ever, but still way less than expected, the payout will not be over $500 to first, especially with only 9 open men registered at $50 each. Now when I posted the minimum payout chart Saturday night and said that is the guarantee and could be more. First was $340, 2nd at $225, 3rd at $170, and 4th at $95 for only 9 players. First thing out of one of the pro players who flew in for this event was, oh man, wtf, only $340 for first, you promised $500. OFC a TD who has put in over 300 hours into this event in the last 9 months, i blew up right there in his face and said I never guarateed $500, I guaranteed $300 and said depending on the entry fees if we can get 45 players, we can get it over $500, now you can flippin see that people didnt show up and are missing out big time, and it says "MINIMUM" on the chart which means it can be more and shut the f*&# up and play hard tomorrow and win it. He didn't win, didnt even get 2nd place either cuz I got it...
                            Point is what, Pros can twist stories and dont think straight before commenting to someone who has put in more hours than the person commenting has gave to the sport in the past few years combined to the tournament.. Obviously you have to calculate the number of people in the event and all of that. THe last thing a TD deserves is any negative comments at all, because every good thing about the tournament, they made happen. Shut up and enjoy it.
                            Come sunday night, the pro who commented shut up once the real payout was announced.
                            1st $440
                            2nd $330
                            3rd $220
                            4th $110
                            Now if this were a 32 person event in the PDGA, this would be a SUPER EXCELLENT payout and added cash. Most of the players realized this at the awards and were thankful for everything, but the whiners are the ones who dont think about all the details the TD has gone through to make the event happen successfully.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              From what I gather, being a TD is rarely worth the effort. It sounds like the tournament was a great time with many highlights, but this is what people will remember. Human nature sucks.
                              The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I doubt it, Chuck. If the event was as much fun as so many have said, that will be what people remember. This is NOT the first event where something like this has happened. And hey... at least the winner got more than a Snickers' bar - king size or not.
                                ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                                ~Annika SŲrenstam

                                Comment

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