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  • #46
    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    As a Steili local, your post really made me angry. I know you probably dont care, but i'd like to address some of what you brought up.
    If I didn't care, I would not have even posted about this.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    Fort Steilacoom is an amazing disc golf course. possibly because you have not played else-where you dont have an appreciation of what you have, but it is amazing. While it may need some improvements, it remains one of the best washington has to offer. Where else can two 18 hole courses be played without ever crossing eachother so events can have the number of spots needed as the sport grows.
    If you read what I had posted, you will note that I did ask if this was what it was suppose to be, or if this was common or not.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    Trash is a huge problem, but trash cans WILL NOT solve it. If we put in trash cans, would you go and empty them when they fill up every 2 days? once they are full, people just throw the trash on the ground near the cans. Kids from the neighboring appartments love to come over to the course at night for some drinks and smash their bottles on the teepads and throw their cans in the bushes, but there really isnt anything we can do about it.
    I half expected that some trash is not from the players who use the course, but by far, most of it is. And I heard about what happened to the trash cans.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    Unlike some courses which are lucky to have parks department aid in maintaining the course, Steili is completely player maintained. When you see the remnants of a bench, that was hard work some golfer invested to put a bench in. When people break them, that shows that we cant have nice benches and that such work is a waste. Before the Spring Classic, the course was cleaned up really well, probably the cleanest its been in a while, but it took less than a week for the litter to build up again. And its not the regular local golfers that trash the course, its the casuals who just come out because its a place to drink and hang out.
    I disagree there. Sit and watch for an hour or less. Watch the players as they go by with the junk food and drinks, watch as they just toss it aside when they're done.

    But regardless of who's to blame, it was really looking bad out there. But since then it was cleaned up and mowed and the place looked wonderful after that.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    I view the lost and found as a priviledge. You say that Mark was elitist, but i think you expect too much.
    Yes, his attitude to the person who was talking to him was that of an elitist, he talked down to the player. Maybe you find that acceptable, but I do not. What I do expect is people in such a position to treat other people with some respect.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    The lost and found person should not be responsible for your plastic, remembering if yours was in there, or to call your number.
    Then what is the point of the lost and found person if his/she is not going to be responsible for anything at all. That's a waste of time and utterly useless.

    Especially since the lost and found person won't call you at all unless you are a member of the local club, and goes on to say that you are not allowed to leave a message when calling for your disc and is rarely ever seen at the course for people to get their lost disc back. Currently, the lost and found is only for the local club members only, as they are the only people who will actually get their lost disc back. Everyone else is just out of luck, or being extorted into becoming a member so when you do lose a disc, you actually get it back.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    As much as a hundred discs are put in the slot every month, and there is no way one person should be responsible for getting you back your plastic. The burden lies on you. I try to call the numbers on discs before i turn them in and tell the person that its in the lost and found, but im not obligated to.
    Again you point out that the burden is on someone else, but yet, the person who handles the lost discs has no responsibility at all? I don't understand how that works. If that person is to have no responsibility at all, then why are they even bothering with the lost disc at all. Pass it on to someone else who's actually willing to show some responsibility.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    Mark is a golfer, its not his job to maintain the lost disc pile, he's doing it as a favor to the rest of us. When the plexiglass covering the lost and found slot was broken and not repaired for quite a while, i didnt get a single lost disc returned to me. Im thankful that there is even the drop box so there is a chance that a trustworthy golfer will return my plastic.
    If it's not Mark's job to do this, then maybe someone else should be found that isn't an elitist and will actually have some respect for this situation and some responsibility.

    I'm not glad for the drop box at all.. If I lose a disc and it gets put in there, I'll never get it back and it will be sold within 30 days.

    In fact, I refuse to ever put a found disc in that box. I've been calling the owners of the lost disc myself and either meeting up with them or having them drop by my house to get their disc.

    Originally posted by Ode View Post
    perhaps with time you will gain some perspective on the fort steilacoom disc golf course, but your comments are narrowsighted and it angers me to think that this is what people are reading about the course i love. I look on the course review websites and i see people bashing steili, i see its not even in the top ten in washington and i blame things like your post and people who come and play the course by themselves once and get lost and decide to post about it on the web. The course isnt perfect and we are always working to improve it, but your comments are unwarranted.
    You can blame whomever you want, but if you do, maybe you should open your closed eyes first and actually look at things. You speak of me being narrow sighted, but yet, I was new to the course and people like you are the one's who gave me this perspective in the first place. Don't blame me, blame yourselves. You're angry, well instead of being angry and playing some blaming game, how about be part of the solution instead? You can point fingers everywhere all you want, but that will do nothing at all. The only thing you should be angry about is your lack of understanding of how you and others are seen by potential new players to that course and possibly not doing anything to change the perspective that myself and others are seeing there. I wonder how many people didn't come back to play there after experiencing such attitudes as yours and Mark's at the course...

    At least I'm doing something about it myself. Hell, I was going to do a clean up party there, even a one man party if need be. Did you offer to help me out with that when I posted about it? No, you sure didn't, instead you'd rather blame people like me for the problems.

    I'd even take on the *Responsibility* of the lost and found if I could. But currently I am not capable of doing so *Responsibly*. You see, it is a *Responsibility* taking on such a thing.

    If you're part of the Tacoma club, that's one more reason that I wish to distance myself from that club. You're attitude towards this was really bad.

    You want to change Fort Steilacoom's image? Then stop blaming people, stop being angry about it and do something about it... I want to change it, so I'm doing what I can about it.

    I saw a guy who plays there who does care. He wear's a shirt that says "Pack it in, pack it out!" and he even says that to people he sees with stuff that might become trash on the course. I admire him and see him do this every time he's there. In fact, I took to this and started doing it also. The last time I saw someone throw some trash down, I asked them to not do that and even offered to take the trash for them and put it in my bag until I got to the dumpster. Now if this guy who wears that shirt is part of your club, then he's a good representation of the club, if he's not, I wonder why he's not.

    You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. I choose to be part of the solution. It's up to you whether you're one or the other.

    The next time I setup a cleaning party, feel free to join me. If I grab my hammer and say "Let's go fix some benches", you grab the nails and join me there and we'll fix some benches together.
    Last edited by Garrett; June 23rd, 2009, 01:19 PM.


    • #47
      Originally posted by Garrett View Post
      He wear's a shit that says "Pack it in, pack it out!"
      I know that was a lot of heartfelt typing, and typos are inevitable with that kind of volume, but I thought that one was particularly funny.

      As a side note though, I think those shirts are actually from the club.
      Untwist thine undergarments, 'tis but a Frisbee.


      • #48
        Originally posted by Tim View Post
        I know that was a lot of heartfelt typing, and typos are inevitable with that kind of volume, but I thought that one was particularly funny.

        As a side note though, I think those shirts are actually from the club.
        They could very well be and it's a great idea too. I just wish everyone who played there thought like that. That would make the course that much better.

        And typo corrected.. LOL, I didn't even notice that either, and I even proof read that whole thing several times... Epic Phail on my part :-(


        • #49
          "They could very well be and it's a great idea too. I just wish everyone who played there thought like that. That would make the course that much better." Garrett

          DING DING DING!!! Your Right! But, your also living in a fantasy world.

          The reallity is... not everybody who plays there does their part to make it better, or even just not make it worse. 1% of the people doing 99% of the work. This is a huge park to maintain. I couldn't even guess the number of users this park has on a given day. There is no help from the parks or the city. There are parks a fraction of Stielly's size that have full time staff mowing and removing garbage. The club officers have live's, famillies, jobs, and they try to find a little time to play golf. They need HELP! Not Criticism! If you want to help, you can adopt a hole, you can organize work parties. You can go to club meetings and offer your abilities, either muscle, money, or brains.Or you can sit on a computer and complain!

          Good job on contacting people about lost plastic, more people that took on that role would mean much more plastic returned. If you would like a phone call from the club...JOIN THE CLUB! I have been playing golf long enough to know if I get a lost disc back, its a gift, not the norm! If you are lucky enough for the club to get your plastic, YOU do the leg work to get it back, or write off the $10 and buy a new one, and support the club that way!

          If your looking for accolades and applause everytime you pound a nail in a bench or pick up a beer can, its not going to happen! You do it for yourself, because you can't not do it! The best you can hope for is that if you do it enough, maybe somebody will notice and follow suit.

          Obviousely you must care if you have taken the time to write about it, now act on your passion! Good Luck and I hope to see your name on a tee sign!
          A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!


          • #50
            While my post may have come off worse than i had intended, i stand by my opinion. Alot of the trash is from "players" but not the old, serious golfer, locals who care about the course.

            the lost and found isnt only for club members. any name on the back of a disc turned in it put on the list in the kiosk. You may only get a call if your club number is on the back, but that is an incentive to join the club. We now have to pay thousands of dollars a year for insurance for the course and we must make that money, ontop of money for gas for mowers and other improvements, and along with weeklies and tournaments alot of that money is from club memberships.

            ive spent some hours behind a push-mower already and hopefully will put in a few more before the FSO, but i encourage others to help out in any way they can.

            im sorry you veiw the club as a bad thing, its really just the golfers who want to keep the course running, and if you have some innitiative you may be a greater help to the course once the avenues of the club are open to you. Just like your doing your part to help the course, perhaps the same is called for with the club.

            sorry if you felt i was belittling you, i was only trying to inform you.

            Hope to see you out there


            • #51
              First impressions are a paramount thing in this world and can make or break something. As you can see, my initial impression of the club was horrible, which left me with no desire at all to join the club. This is counter productive to the club and it's intent to promote disc golf and maintain the course. I'm a 40 something who's been down the river and back so many times it'll make most people get dizzy. If I was scared off from the club, how do you think younger less experienced and traveled players would react to such a first impression of the club? I also wonder how many potential members have eluded the club now due to this sort of encounter.

              Anyway, my initial post regarding this was food for thought, giving a possible reason for the lack of events in this state.

              If the Tacoma club considers some of what has been said here, maybe something in that club can be done to change the impression being given off by the club. Then maybe people like me who are willing to put in not only some money, but some of their own time to help out would be less reluctant to consider joining the club.


              • #52
                I would encourage you to join the club and take on an active role. You don't have to be an experienced golfer to help organize a club, and organization is exactly what it needs. Maybe as an older person with "many trips down the river" your life experience could be used. There is a lot of members who are willing and able to take on active roles and help out, but there isn't somebody to recognize their talents and point them in the right direction. The club needs to become more formal and not so much of a clique. Outside influence may be the answer.

                It is not my intention to bad mouth the club, I am a member and do attend meetings when I know of them, but I think change is necessary. A course that gets that many people playing it should be able to get more than 10 people to show up for a meeting.
                Last edited by olydiscgolf; June 25th, 2009, 05:26 PM.
                A bad day on the golf course is better than a good day at work!


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Garrett View Post
                  First impressions are a paramount thing in this world and can make or break something.
                  Not trying to be a dick, but what about the club's first impression of you?

                  Garrett, your care and concern for steilly is obvious, and from an outsider's perspective (with no knowledge of you or the club except for what's been posted here) I'd vote for you if you ran for a leadership position within the club. I think there's a lot about WA disc golf that needs new blood and fresh ideas, not to mention non-burnt-out motivation. You're not going to beat 'em, but I bet you could join 'em and change 'em.
                  The only thing miraculous about ICP is the fact that their children look like them...


                  • #54
                    This has been a very informative thread for me. I think that many people who have placed discs in the lost in found in good faith would reconsider if they knew the reality of what happened to them afterwards. Personally, I will never walk away from a disc at any course unless I accept the fact that it is gone for good and will not be returned.

                    Course maintenance will always be an issue for public parks. As far as I know there are no dedicated public disc golf courses in the region. Most if not all public course are placed in multi-use parks. Non disc golfers will be present and generally speaking I think that these park users are more likely to generate trash. There is a reason why ball golf courses cost the amount of money that they do. One part of that price is the cost of maintenance. I wish that some disc golfer millionaire would open up a private pay-to-play course in the area that was maintained full time in the same way that ball golf courses are. Some day...


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChUcK View Post
                      I'd vote for you if you ran for a leadership position within the club. I think there's a lot about WA disc golf that needs new blood and fresh ideas, not to mention non-burnt-out motivation. You're not going to beat 'em, but I bet you could join 'em and change 'em.
                      I appreciate the vote of confidence and the suggestion. Maybe after I get to know disc golf a bit more, the course and actually meet some other members of the club.


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