2011 Farragut Open - Oct. 8th - 9th Page Title Module
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  • #31
    Originally posted by Yoduh View Post
    North Star could be a decent course with a lot of work. I like the comparrison of North Star to Corbin. It's a little tricky but not a professional course by any means. I ran 2 PDGA events at Corbin Park the 2nd and 3rd year of the INWS and even though I had more cash added than most other events I could only get 11 and 12 Open players to come. Most events were drawing at least 20. These types of courses just don't measure true golf skill. There are way to many greens that leave no putts on the North Star. The lack of decisions to be made on the course make it really easy.
    I don't think it's putting area that bothers me so much about Northstar. I actually think the putting area's are good besides maybe one hole (8). I just don't think the course is technical enough to test true skill. As you stated earlier, it favors overhand shots most of the time. It's definitely a course that could use some mando's and some ob line to make it on par with the difficulty of the other two courses.

    With that being said, I don't care what courses we play. I just want to play damn it!
    "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
    Cleveland Brown

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    • #32
      The Farragut Fundraiser at Cherry Hill was a huge success! Special thanks to Jack and Scott Wardian for all of their help, and Ben Squires and his crew for moving all the baskets in between rounds! With only 20 registered players, we raised a little over $400 for the Farragut Open!!! Here are the winners:
      Open - Ben Squires
      ADV - Josh Fish
      INT - Shane Wellner
      Women's INT - Carrie Wardian
      Ace Pot - Cole Swanson $51
      Last edited by Kris C; July 24th, 2011, 06:32 AM.
      Whenever I see a matress on top of a car, I think it's a prostitute making a house call!

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      • #33
        So lets see, with 3 cash-only sponsors so far we have $900 added cash not counting the cash/schwag total that Rapid Fire will be kicking in and the shirt guy (Big Webbed Feet.com) both totaling over $250 worth of cash & stuff. Super badass! Nice work Kris and all who supported his efforts. Nice to see the little ol' NIDGC doing some nice work to improve a local tourney payout for everyone else.

        I do like the idea of playing NS even though I know many don't like it. It still has some quality holes, is a decent course, and as of now DBD is just the one course. I am guessing it will stay that way and it will be for the best. Everyone will have to play the same stuff and deal with it all. I think if certain players have ideas for different layouts then they should use them for other events. I think for the true Farragut Open it should be all 3 courses in some way being used.

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        • #34
          Nice Job on the fundraising guys!! I would have came but the arthritis on my throwing pinky flared up for no reason yesterday and I need to get the swelling down and get back to practicing for worlds.

          DBD will be chalked full of alternates before the event. It's really a shame that you seem to doubt whether or not it will happen considering I have been making it happen since the word go and I personally told you that it will indeed happen. Also strange is your assertion that it would only work well for another event. Do you not enjoy the quality of course that I have already designed? Am I not capable of providing a well thought out challenge for our golfers? Now you and I both know the answers to these questions but my guess is you are making the decision that is probably not trying to piss the most golfers off. We also both know that everybody is going to play either way. The most important goal as a tournament course facilitator is to provide a course(s) that will crown the best golfer of the weekend.
          For west side golfers reading this our closest comparison here to your courses would be Seatac (with 15 trees removed) vs. Northpark(with shorter holes but on a much bigger property with no ceiling shots).

          Here is a list of the quality holes on Northstar. Hole 1 Hole 3 (sucks to be lefty) Hole 5(cut down one tree) hole 6 (teepad needs to be squared to the fairway,sucks to be a lefty) hole 17(sucks to be a lefty). Those holes to me provide the most scoring swing and shot execution. The greens are fair (maybe not 5). Generally the shots are executable and don't allow a cheesy thumber to get a birdie(except 5). Hole 2 is super easy and 4is not far behind! This course in general is brutal on leftys. Holes 7 (sucks to be a lefty) 8 9 all fall into ridiculousy (just made that word up) hard to 2 and a dumb four is possible. The idea is to throw a smart (easy drive) make an up shot and stay outta trouble. Hole 10 is almost a good hole but a thumber makes it soooooo easy that everybody has to work to get a bird and they get a drop in 2. Hole 11 is just weird 180 foot shot as is 16. Hole 12 is easy(leftys have to work).. When I think of this course holes 11-16 just kind of blend together(with another sucks to be lefty hole in there). Nothing special at all. Mostly teeshots (upshots) that require some luck. Hole 18 is a must bird and very righty friendly..
          Can't say I'd be up there playing Wreck or DBD and would be longing to go play NorthStar. It would not be the same without North because we wouldn't be playing a birdie or die luck course.
          That being said I am still doing my part to help out. I will be reserving the camp ground for golfers and camping will be available for $5 a person per night. I have a line on kegs that we will hopefully have in the camp ground. We will have music and a big bonfire with tons of DBD campfire wood! I also have a meeting with a caterer to possibly get dinner served on Saturday night. I will keep you posted on the fun part as we get closer.
          Relax and enjoy your hair
          TNT Yardworks.com

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          • #35
            All valid points Jeremy and I do like the work done to make DBD what it is today and look forward to seeing what it can be. That said I still like NorthStar personally. Plus, keep in mind that I have no say in layout that is ultimately up to Jack so your case is best plead to him and I do think it is safe to say that he will choose the format that will piss off the fewest players. The fewer players you piss off the more you make happy.

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            • #36
              I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.
              Relax and enjoy your hair
              TNT Yardworks.com

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Yoduh View Post
                I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.
                I am playing advanced and can tell you that I don't mind getting schooled twice by DBD. I do mind a tournament full of pissy players as it doesn't seem to build that wonderful tournament atmosphere that keeps us coming back. As I have stated previous, I will play whatever. Hell, if the nine hole was there, I'd even play that for a tournament round.
                "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
                Cleveland Brown

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                • #38
                  oh, c'mon now. A tournament full of pissy players at Farragut? I've played every Farragut open since 2000 and I'm here to tell ya right now even if we played DBD 3 times it wouldn't happen!
                  Relax and enjoy your hair
                  TNT Yardworks.com

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                  • #39
                    Now now, lets not make generalizations and assumptions about all Advanced players. I will be playing Advanced (though whether or not I should is a better argument left for another day) and I would have no problem getting schooled, spanked, demoralized, humiliated, embarrassed, beat down, or however else you want to describe it by DBD twice. Hell, I'd play it three or four times if that was the format that Jack decided on. I understand why many of the Pros wouldn't want to play NorthStar as it doesn't fit their game or their likes as well as the others. My thoughts are if NS is best played with thumbers instead of controlled backhand or forehand shots then get better at throwing a thumber then everyone else and if you won't do it then I hope you're real good at locating your other shots. I won't do the thumber trick not because I think it is a weak cheater shot but because I hate throwing them and think I become a better player by throwing other shots. That said, I know sometimes thumbers are just necessary so I use them on occasion. I don't have a problem if the tournament overall forces players to use a wide range of shot selections (even the dreaded overhand) because players should have them all incorporated into their game. That's why I dabble with throwing lefty backhand because I think in the long run it will make me more competitive and will make me a better player - and because I hate throwing righty sidearm. You gotta have the tricks and use them all reasonably well and sometimes that might give lesser skilled players a higher likelihood of having a competing score with you. Again, just my 2 cents.

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                    • #40
                      I throw thumbers 300 feet and tommy's 280 but I think they are WEAK!!! There is little to no skill involved. Most people either can or can't I remember the first time I threw one it traveled 300 feet. It didn't take the exact flight I had planned but I adjusted and the next one went exactly where I wanted it. I wish after throwing 2 backhands I would reach max D.. NOT
                      It does make a lot of sense that tournament hardened and TD extrordanaire Jack makes the decisions about we the unknowing players play..
                      Relax and enjoy your hair
                      TNT Yardworks.com

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ScottW View Post
                        My thoughts are if NS is best played with thumbers instead of controlled backhand or forehand shots then get better at throwing a thumber then everyone else and if you won't do it then I hope you're real good at locating your other shots. I won't do the thumber trick not because I think it is a weak cheater shot but because I hate throwing them and think I become a better player by throwing other shots. That said, I know sometimes thumbers are just necessary so I use them on occasion. I don't have a problem if the tournament overall forces players to use a wide range of shot selections (even the dreaded overhand) because players should have them all incorporated into their game.
                        I don't throw thumbers because they HURT! All overhand shots hurt to throw, so why should a secondary shot be forced to be made off the tee? A hole should not be designed so the best shot is one that doesn't require a ton of skill, but merely rotator cuff strength. That is not a well designed hole. I have run tournaments in the past where I used height mandos to restrict the overhand shots off the tee because the more skilled shot is the one necessary to navigate the middle of the fairway.

                        Just sayin

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                        • #42
                          Now there is a certain amount of risk reward to the thumber/tomahawk. If you use the two meter rule, the chance of taking a stroke by trying to throw a thumber into or over the tree line goes up exponentially. I've lost more discs in those evilly thick tree's at Farragut from overhands than I have from any other shot selection. One more thing, I doubt anybody would tell Brian Schweberger that his thumber doesn't take skill. He can throw every kind of shot with a thumber. That is skill.

                          Now that I have gone that route, I don't throw but a few overhands a round. Not that I can't and not that I don't have a killer thumber. It's more along the lines of I'd like to continue playing this game as I get older instead of remembering the times I played till I tore my shoulder apart from throwing overhands.

                          I still think the best way to go about this whole situation is to sit down with Jack and the players and decide what would be the best and most challenging situation. I know that if you had some ob rope and some mando's in certain area's, you'd definitely see some score variation. Something to think about.
                          Last edited by General Scales; July 26th, 2011, 06:21 AM. Reason: Because I am not smart in the morning.
                          "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
                          Cleveland Brown

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                          • #43
                            I have heard him say that it takes no skill at worlds in a practice round in KC.
                            There is one mando that we added to hole 7 to drop thumbers but that is the only hole possible. I don't see ob rope making thumbers less likely. They are MORE precise so it wouldn't hurt a thumber.
                            Relax and enjoy your hair
                            TNT Yardworks.com

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                            • #44
                              The only somewhat tough thumber throw is a thumber roller which I ca do with pretty good accuracy
                              Relax and enjoy your hair
                              TNT Yardworks.com

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Yoduh View Post
                                It does make a lot of sense that tournament hardened and TD extrordanaire Jack makes the decisions about we the unknowing players play..
                                Ahhh yes, a snide remark will surely help you win your case Another touch of class from Jeremy Thornton! Obviously the best decision for any TD would be to step aside and just ask the Open players what they want to do, then do that while still having to take the brunt of the players gripes about other tourney complications. Perhaps the only way Jeremy will be happy is if TD extraordinaire Jeremy runs an event, then you can make all of your decisions based on what you think the Open players will like most. That will surely work well. It's just like with anything else, we're just trying to run a fun event that makes the most happy and makes the most players want to return.

                                Anyway, digressing, I do think that some added difficulty with mandos and/or OB could help alleviate some of the overhand issues, especially on NorthStar. It's too bad not everyone can just be happy to be playing in a tournament and not have to worry about ALL the hassles of running it.

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