2012 Beaver State Fling Amateur Lottery Results & Wait List Page Title Module
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  • #31
    Dam feriners filded ar ternimint! Orgun ternimints fer Orgunites!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      Very disappointed. Don't really have much else to say.
      Say that you reg'd for MPM as a fall-back plan? I hit every angle I could (short of relocating my brain from my lower abdominal area to the empty space above my shoulders) to try and increase my chances to play.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by CarlitosBonitos View Post
        However I did some research on the Advanced Menís field and found that there are 17 out of the 72 lottery winners who were also able to play last year, which equates to 23.6% returning players and when I compare that I am #90 out of 150 on the waitlist, the 17 spots that probably shouldnít have gone to players who got to play last year, doesnít really matter as the problem isnít really in the hands of Jeff or anyone else and how they choose to run the entry system. It really boils down to supply and demand. The demand to play in the Beaver State Fling is very high! The supply without going to ridiculously demanding efforts on the part of the TD's is what it is and that is low. I propose an economics lesson wherein Cost is directly correlated to the point where supply intersects with demand. Perhaps raising entry fees considerably would not only raise additional funds to further the efforts of the BSF, but also to raise the Cash Payouts on the Pro Side to attract even more of the worldís best players. I must admit I am likely in favor of this as I have steady work and make a decent living and would be willing to pay (***read donate) a couple hundred dollars to compete in this event.

        The only other solutions I can see are predicated on qualifiers, or some kind of earning your spot through disc golf related activities such as work party hour credits or community service activity credits or? Or? Or? Or I guess I will just shut up and hope that it wonít be 3 years in a row without playing in the BSF, or I will invest my $200 into proper putting lessons and qualify as a pro???

        That being said, thanks to everyone involved for their efforts!
        Carl,

        Thank you for your understanding. I will say one thing though, I will NEVER agree to using pricing to edge people out of this tourney. Yes, the price may have to go up at some point, but not with the intent of driving people away. This isn't about who has the fattest wallet... its about disc golf.

        Jeff
        "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Very disappointed. Don't really have much else to say.
          Feeling your pain..... can't stop crying. Want to meet at Whistlers the 16th of June to commiserate?

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          • #35
            Thinking about it. That does sound like a good idea... Let's talk in two weeks.
            ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
            ~Annika SŲrenstam

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            • #36
              Similar to the NT side, I wonder if tiered, ratings-based registration would be a workable solution to the overwhelming demand?

              It seems that the same reasoning applies to the A-tier side.

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              • #37
                Understood...

                Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                Carl,

                Thank you for your understanding. I will say one thing though, I will NEVER agree to using pricing to edge people out of this tourney. Yes, the price may have to go up at some point, but not with the intent of driving people away. This isn't about who has the fattest wallet... its about disc golf.

                Jeff
                I understand there is no perfect solution Jeffery, Not trying to say it would be fair, but I also think that this is a prestigious event and if you take a look at the calendar you will see many, many events that are very affordable. It is Disc golf and it is not supposed to cost a fortune to be able to play or compete, but this is the best annual tournament on the West Coast IMO. Anyways, I like the idea of giving preference to people who actually earn their spot through work parties and such much better as an alternative, and to speak to the point Scott brought up of this eliminating the crowd outside of Portland; I donít live in Portland, I live an hour away. It would be up to me to decide how bad i want to play in the BSF and determine if I can put in the man hours that would equate to my tournament entry. If I don't than I have no one to blame but myself, and I certainly cannot blame a lottery. The Pro side of things should not be reserved for the local crowd only, it should be constructed in a manner that encourages the best players possible to compete with each other. The rest of us however have demonstrated far too great of a demand and therefore I think the fair thing to do is give preference to those who frequent the course and contribute to it, while encouraging these same people to frequent and contribute to the other courses supported by the powers at be with regards to the BSF. That is all and just discussing openly some ideas, not meant as an attack on the poor, geographically challenged, or any other group of peeps I may have left out
                Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by bryan_luoma View Post
                  Similar to the NT side, I wonder if tiered, ratings-based registration would be a workable solution to the overwhelming demand?

                  It seems that the same reasoning applies to the A-tier side.

                  Bryan,

                  I had initially requested that exact thing last year and the PDGA declined to allow it. I can see both sides of this argument, but I think I may need to push them a little harder next year.

                  So, while that might work for MA1. What about all of the other divisions? Hell, we have 32 Advanced Masters and 15 Advanced Grandmasters on the wait list, and those divisions are only going to get bigger. Do we set ratings caps for everyone? See the can-o-worms you open up there?

                  How about this: If we continue to attract more and more female golfers (as we should) they will continue to pull slots from the men. What then? Imagine how pissed Amber will be when THAT happens!

                  I'm really just throwing these questions out there because they are real issues to be addressed, and the answers might look more obvious than they really are. Whatever the case we need to do something. Even the lottery, which is as fair as we could come up with, is far from perfect. Hell, the whole process seems borderline unmanageable. Well, I take that back. It can be managed... just not if I want to keep any friends.

                  Jeff
                  "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Amber View Post
                    not whining just wondering when i had talked to jeff earlier he had said 32. now we just need a couple of shadow cards
                    Yeah, like 50 of them.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Jeff,

                      I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

                      Jeff

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                      • #41
                        I think the lottery system is 100% fair: equal chance for all who want to play. First-come, first-serve used to also be fair; that was until the event filled up in 3 minutes online, then it was no longer fair to those without good internet connections. Increasing the cost is not fair for obvious reasons (well, obvious to me anyway). Would an entry fee of $100 be enough to reduce the entrants? How about $200? $300? Whatever it would be, it's way too much. Qualifying events would not be fair to players far away.

                        Qualifying events, however, are very intriguing indeed. They are inherently fair as long as people have an equal opportunity/cost to attend the events. If qualifying events could be used in a fair manner, they would probably be accepted by the disc golf community.

                        What I'm getting at is a small number of spots reserved in each division for qualifiers. So, for MA1, a pool of 72, hold 12 spots in reserve for the top 3 finishers at 4 separate qualifying events. That leaves 60 spots remaining. Now, the hard part: do you let the players who entered qualifying events, but didn't qualify, enter the lottery? If so, they have an unfair advantage because local players could have higher chances of getting in. If you don't let them enter the lottery. Well, then they'll get pissed off!!!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by J Monette View Post
                          Jeff,

                          I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

                          Jeff
                          Step right up and make it happen!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by J Monette View Post
                            Jeff,

                            I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

                            Jeff
                            I agree that it would be sweet to have a massively increased capacity. I've thought of a number of ways this could be done but they all add up to chaos for the TDs. Lengthening the event would be a good way, but can A-tiers be that long? Also, would it be odd to have the Ams play more days than the Pros? I'm guessing the touring Pros would not come so consistently if it was a 4 or 5 day event.

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                            • #44
                              "When a ball dreams, it dreams it is a frisbee."

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                              • #45
                                Kenny B,

                                I agree with the point that you wouldn't want the pro side of the event lengthened, they have other tourneys to head off to. The Ams are really the problem here. The amateur championships are longer than 2 days and have a very large capacity, so I don't think it violates rules for an A tier event. Also, the TD's definitely couldn't magically squeeze 180 more people into the two day event. Would a Thursday through Sunday event add enough spots to stop the majority of the belly aching?

                                Ski2man,

                                Where did you get the video of me when I found out I had lost the lottery again?

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