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  • Master and Grandmaster divisions for the Oregon State DG Championships,

    Hey Jeff,
    Any chance (besides trying to play better than a lot of pro players half our age ) that you are going to make this possible for some of us old diehards?
    I know this has been brought up before but speaking for myself and prolly a bunch of others, I don't think it's fair to not let (except by way of qualifications) some of the older folks have a chance to play. Just because they got old and can't keep up with all of today's young pros, IMO, shouldn't mean they don't get to compete for a State Championship.
    A lot of these ol'timers have discovered, built and nurtured this cool sport and feel left out.
    FWIW, I did research and have yet to find any other State Championships who didn't honor their old fellers.
    You know that I know and respect all the great things you've done and continue to do for the sport we both love.
    Thanks Jeff,
    Yoseman
    4438
    He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
    - Anonymous

  • #2
    Originally posted by Flatroc View Post
    Hey Jeff,
    Any chance (besides trying to play better than a lot of pro players half our age ) that you are going to make this possible for some of us old diehards?
    I know this has been brought up before but speaking for myself and prolly a bunch of others, I don't think it's fair to not let (except by way of qualifications) some of the older folks have a chance to play. Just because they got old and can't keep up with all of today's young pros, IMO, shouldn't mean they don't get to compete for a State Championship.
    A lot of these ol'timers have discovered, built and nurtured this cool sport and feel left out.
    FWIW, I did research and have yet to find any other State Championships who didn't honor their old fellers.
    You know that I know and respect all the great things you've done and continue to do for the sport we both love.
    Thanks Jeff,
    Yoseman
    4438
    You're killing me Yose. Here is my dilemma. As it stands right now I have 72 slots for players.

    4 Pro Women
    4 Adv Women
    32 Pro Men
    32 Adv Men

    If I start adding divisions it takes away from the existing divisions. Then where do I draw the line? If I add Pro Masters, do I add Pro Grandmasters as well? Do I also add Adv Masters? Then what about Adv Grandmasters? You see where that leads me?

    I could end up with something like this:
    24 Pro Men
    4 Pro Women
    4 Pro Masters
    4 Pro Grandmasters
    24 Adv Men
    4 Adv Women
    4 Adv. Masters
    4 Adv. Grandmasters

    Sadly, aside from allowing more people to play, (which admittedly is not a bad thing) I don't think it improves the event much, if at all. My original concept for this event was to put on an event where the required level of play rivaled even the USDGC; an event where every shot is a knee-knocker. The USDGC is one single division, and I felt that was a little too harsh for this area, so I allowed women's divisions and Ams. I give you a little and you always want MORE!

    I will say this much, if I do tweak the event to include any additional divisions this year, it would probably be to simply allow Pro and Adv. Masters Divisions. Perhaps if it all worked out I could visit the possibility of GMs next year.

    Its really just matter of my original vision for the event, and overall capacity.
    "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

    Comment


    • #3
      I like the idea of adding a Pro Masters and an Advanced Masters division to this...
      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
      ~Annika SŲrenstam

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        I like the idea of adding a Pro Masters and an Advanced Masters division to this...
        Official Rating cap for Adv Masters = SamsCurrentRating-1
        "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
          Official Rating cap for Adv Masters = SamsCurrentRating-1
          +1

          Comment


          • #6
            more holes, flights

            Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
            You're killing me Yose. Here is my dilemma. As it stands right now I have 72 slots for players.

            4 Pro Women
            4 Adv Women
            32 Pro Men
            32 Adv Men

            If I start adding divisions it takes away from the existing divisions. Then where do I draw the line? If I add Pro Masters, do I add Pro Grandmasters as well? Do I also add Adv Masters? Then what about Adv Grandmasters? You see where that leads me?

            I could end up with something like this:
            24 Pro Men
            4 Pro Women
            4 Pro Masters
            4 Pro Grandmasters
            24 Adv Men
            4 Adv Women
            4 Adv. Masters
            4 Adv. Grandmasters

            Sadly, aside from allowing more people to play, (which admittedly is not a bad thing) I don't think it improves the event much, if at all. My original concept for this event was to put on an event where the required level of play rivaled even the USDGC; an event where every shot is a knee-knocker. The USDGC is one single division, and I felt that was a little too harsh for this area, so I allowed women's divisions and Ams. I give you a little and you always want MORE!

            I will say this much, if I do tweak the event to include any additional divisions this year, it would probably be to simply allow Pro and Adv. Masters Divisions. Perhaps if it all worked out I could visit the possibility of GMs next year.

            Its really just matter of my original vision for the event, and overall capacity.
            Well,
            IF there were 2 courses being used, you could have at least 144.
            I think every division that the PDGA recognizes should be honored at a State Championship and that said event should be open to the whole state.
            He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
            - Anonymous

            Comment


            • #7
              Yose makes lots of sense. It would be a great thing if there was an ADV GM division!

              Comment


              • #8
                Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

                I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

                As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

                I hope you all understand.
                "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was only jumping on Yose's bandwagon because I keep getting older.
                  I'm also fairly sure I'll never get to play the event and that kind of sucks...
                  not because of how you set it up, but because I'm not really Championship material.
                  Besides, you know that and I figured you knew I was just ribbing you....
                  unless you go with 144 players... then I want in....somehow.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IF you wait til next year we be asking for a SGM division

                    Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                    Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

                    I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

                    As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

                    I hope you all understand.
                    Jeff,
                    I do understand. It's rather simple.
                    It's your concept and you're the TD.
                    I really have never ignored anything you have to say as I respect you and your goals.
                    BUT, I do disagree with parts of your concept.
                    As far as getting the best in the state, you'll get most, but there are a lot of very good dger's that won't/can't attend these qualifiers. Also, I'd figure there would be some that made the events but didn't qualify.
                    I think the only way to find the best in the state is to have an open shootout!
                    Why are you so opposed to having two or more courses?
                    Most of us have never been or prolly never will experience the USDGC, so IMO that point is moot.
                    You have several challenging courses in your area that would require a champion to play his best if he wants the gold.
                    It seems to me if you make this gig like the USDGC stuff, you're narrowing it down to who is the smartest dger in the state.
                    Also, I never much cared to be the appease-ee.
                    I make part of my living being an appease-er.
                    Yose
                    He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
                    - Anonymous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                      Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

                      I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

                      As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

                      I hope you all understand.
                      You're good Jeff, you don't need to ask for understanding. It's a cool event and people appreciate it, but people always want more. The reality is that not every event can be every thing to all people. Add more courses, add more divisions, make it available to everyone who doesn't have the time or money or determination to make it to a qualifier....blah, blah, blah.

                      It's a cool concept and a cool event and you do it for love of the game and it takes a ton of your time and you're the goddamn TD and you can do what you want, and call it what you want, and run it how you want.

                      Hey- add another course, no big deal, right? BAH!

                      Now about that MPM division....Just kidding (not really). I'm going to try and qualify this year to get my butt kicked by the players and the course.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        state champion

                        The Trojan event that takes place in September is an awesome concept, albeit a bit unconventional for a "State Championships".

                        I think this is good dialogue to have for disc golf in the state of Oregon. In no way should this discussion take away from the effort, dedication, and pure awesomeness of this event.

                        From my perspective, it sounds like the only quandary with ORDGC is the name of the event? Bueller?

                        PMs and PGs want a shot at the "state title" too, understandably. What about PSs and PLs? You can see where this is going (PE, A2, J1, F*)

                        The concept of state championships, regional championships, national championships, and world championships for the sport of disc golf is different than other sports. Does the PDGA care about standardizing these events? Do golfers care, maybe?

                        Ultimately, power to the TD, IMO.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bryan_luoma View Post
                          The Trojan event that takes place in September is an awesome concept, albeit a bit unconventional for a "State Championships".

                          I think this is good dialogue to have for disc golf in the state of Oregon. In no way should this discussion take away from the effort, dedication, and pure awesomeness of this event.

                          From my perspective, it sounds like the only quandary with ORDGC is the name of the event? Bueller?

                          PMs and PGs want a shot at the "state title" too, understandably. What about PSs and PLs? You can see where this is going (PE, A2, J1, F*)

                          The concept of state championships, regional championships, national championships, and world championships for the sport of disc golf is different than other sports. Does the PDGA care about standardizing these events? Do golfers care, maybe?

                          Ultimately, power to the TD, IMO.
                          This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

                          If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matt B. View Post
                            This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

                            If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.
                            amen sing it on the mountain brother matt.
                            "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
                            Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt B. View Post
                              This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

                              If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.
                              Thanks Matt, very well articulated. Makes perfect sense.

                              I am surprised that Oregon does not have a "state championships". I guess it's just another event anyhow. Carry on.

                              BTW, I'll be looking for a caddy for ORDGC3.
                              Last edited by bryan_luoma; February 8th, 2012, 01:04 PM.

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