Festivus 8 - 1/24/09 Page Title Module
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  • #16
    As a Rec player, or MA3 as PDGA officially calls it, I have to disagree with 2 of your statements.

    1) Recreational is the Division by name it implies that people that sign up for the division are more casual golfers that are playing at least as much for fun as for serious competition.


    In the 3 events that I have played Rec, I mean MA3 in, they were they most fun tournament rounds I have ever played in. But, saying that Rec players are playing for fun as much as competition is wrong. Yeah, the rounds tend to be more casual an fun without the stress of trying to win the upper divisions. Competition? yes we do try to compete as hard as anybody in any other division. We are just competing against players more at our skill level, or in the case of PDGA events, we are playing the proper division that our player ratings put us in. The old Rec divison from a few years back, was normally trophy only, or sometimes even no trophy, just glory. It was the division for people who played like crap, were new, or just wanted to play in a tourney and wasnt really trying to win anything. That is not the case now. MA3 is a legitimate division, just lower rated players and its not even the lowest division one could play in.

    3) Maybe those inclined to sand bag by playing Rec while destroying at least 1/2 the Intermediate field will be provoked into moving up. Every event that I have seen a Rec division the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys.


    MA3 is for any player rated under 900. if someone is rated 899 and their only competition is a player rate 720 or so, it isnt really sandbagging, and is completely acceptable to be playing in that division. In my 3 MA3 tourneys, two of them were won by someone who clearly dominated in the end scores. If they had played in INT, they would have finished mid pack. Not a bad result, but it obviously would have taken away their chance to actually have a tourney victory. By the way, those 2 guys were both playing in their first PDGA tourney, and had no rating, so they were in the correct division. The 3rd person to win in my MA3 playing was me. If you know me, you would know I am far from sandbagging by winning that event. I won by 7 strokes I believe, which was nice, but it was also a bit of luck, since I was 799 rated at the time, not a high rating.

    I know this event isnt PDGA, so their official rules dont apply here. And I also know that in this case, the TD made this ruling, and anyone still playing in MA3, or FW3 for that matter, either moves up, or lives with the TD's ruling.
    All I want for Christmas is Sharpies and Rit Dye!!!!

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    • #17
      on a more personal note. you said "the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys."

      Are you trying to say that us Rec, or MA3 guys dont count as one of the guys? Are we just the redheaded stepchildren of this sport?
      All I want for Christmas is Sharpies and Rit Dye!!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        3) Maybe those inclined to sand bag by playing Rec while destroying at least 1/2 the Intermediate field will be provoked into moving up. Every event that I have seen a Rec division the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys.

        Damn. I have no snappy comeback or articulate statement. Just a question:

        What is sandbagging?
        Training to be a bagger

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by smobro View Post
          3) Maybe those inclined to sand bag by playing Rec while destroying at least 1/2 the Intermediate field will be provoked into moving up. Every event that I have seen a Rec division the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys.

          Damn. I have no snappy comeback or articulate statement. Just a question:

          What is sandbagging?

          Lets take this to a different thread. I will create it.

          I really do appreciate all the hard work.
          Training to be a bagger

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Trozzle!!! View Post
            Are we just the redheaded stepchildren of this sport?
            Just you Troy.
            Golf appeals to the idiot in us and the child. Just how childlike golf players become is proven by their frequent inability to count past five. - John Updike

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            • #21
              Thanks Justin, I already knew that, hahaha

              But still, us lower rate players eserve respect too. whether its a PDGA event or not. I am just glad that we had 4 fun players who decided to do MA3 for WOX.
              We made our own division know and raised a lot of stink about it. I plan to play 4-5 ORS events this year, and i will proudly enter as MA3 everytime!!!! I just hope we have enough participants to be able to get a series winner this year
              All I want for Christmas is Sharpies and Rit Dye!!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Trozzle!!! View Post
                on a more personal note. you said "the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys."

                Are you trying to say that us Rec, or MA3 guys dont count as one of the guys? Are we just the redheaded stepchildren of this sport?
                No, you're just waaaayyy too sensitive. If you want a better chance at trophies, you'll need a bigger division. As to how to convince more people to play MA3 I have no idea. Seems like a tough call for a hard working TD - should they offer a trophy for a four person division and decimate any possibility of payout? Should 25% of a division get a trophy? Look at FPO - think Toni will be getting a trophy?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by discgolfgreg View Post
                  1) Recreational is the Division by name it implies that people that sign up for the division are more casual golfers that are playing at least as much for fun as for serious competition.
                  At first glance, yes. But by PDGA standards, "Recreational" simply is the name of the division for people with ratings between 850 and 900. It has nothing to do with the seriousness of the competitors.

                  Originally posted by discgolfgreg View Post
                  3) Maybe those inclined to sand bag by playing Rec while destroying at least 1/2 the Intermediate field will be provoked into moving up. Every event that I have seen a Rec division the person who wins clearly should have been playing Intermediate at least with the guys.
                  When has this happened? Please provide your source. I assume you're going back in history a ways, because from what I recall:

                  2009 WOX: 1st Place MA3 would have tied for 23rd out of 41 in MA2
                  2009 Slosh #1: 1st place MA3 would have finished 9th out of 14th in MA2
                  2009 Slosh #2: 1st place MA3 would have finished 11th of 15th.

                  Hardly what I would call destroying half of the intermeditate field.

                  In fact, I will continue to argue that most of the <900 rated players in MA2 should be playing in MA3. That will give us two very balanced and competitive divisions. MA3 is as competitive as every other division. Not as skilled obviously, but it is in the lower divisions where skills and competition are learned.

                  Originally posted by discgolfgreg View Post
                  Since I made the Recreational Entry Fee the same as Intermediate this year, that is not a reason but could be a factor in different circumstances. I made them the same mostly to ensure there was still something left for scrip to play for after deducting players pack costs.
                  If that's your viewpoint, not having trophies for MA3 makes less sense. If the group is for newer and more casual players they should be playing for a trophy, not scrip.

                  I think the main problem is that so many people get hung up on the term Recreational, which is about the dumbest thing the PDGA could have named the division. Since Festivus is not a PDGA event, you certainly can have other criteria for who should be in a division. But if that is the case, it should be noted up front.


                  Originally posted by discgolfgreg View Post
                  Happy Festivus,
                  And to you!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    cmon folks lets move this to the "what is Sandbagging" thread.

                    I apologize for starting it here.
                    Training to be a bagger

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Holy shit you Rec players can be bitches!

                      Greg made the comment "at least with the guys" as a means to distinguish between the MA3 division and the FW3 division.

                      Greg has run this tourney for years now, and I think it's cool that your MA3 division is available, but it seems like you all have some perceived slight every time it is offered.

                      You know, if you all were playing in the Int division, there would be trophies for 1st through 3rd, and the payout would be deeper. want payout or trophies?

                      whatever....

                      meh

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by essjay View Post
                        Holy shit you Rec players can be bitches!
                        Thanks, I appreciate that.

                        Originally posted by essjay View Post
                        You know, if you all were playing in the Int division, there would be trophies for 1st through 3rd, and the payout would be deeper. want payout or trophies?
                        Mostly we're looking for competition. If the MA3 eligible players played MA2, they would typically be out of the running for trophies by about the fourth or fifth hole.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Happy Friday, Essjay!
                          Golf appeals to the idiot in us and the child. Just how childlike golf players become is proven by their frequent inability to count past five. - John Updike

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by all2common View Post
                            Happy Friday, Essjay!
                            Hahaha yeah I guess that hit the page a bit hard. Sorry guys.

                            I am just amazed at the number of posts that are dedicated to whether MA3 players are being treated fairly.

                            Anyhoo, can't wait to blow out of the office and start the good weather golf weekend!

                            Anybody coming down for the Ole???

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Wish I could...got big plans to build planter boxes for the upcoming planting season and work on the house a little. Festivus? Oh, I'll be down for that!
                              Golf appeals to the idiot in us and the child. Just how childlike golf players become is proven by their frequent inability to count past five. - John Updike

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hey will you build me a couple of those planters?? I've been intended to do that the last 2 years! Saw you registered for Festivus! Give us a call if you like...


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