Pine Jam - June 1 & 2, 2013 - Sisters, OR Page Title Module
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  • #61
    Originally posted by discVENTures View Post
    Yammits, your blog is erroneous and disdainful. Your payout calculations are wrong. Perhaps you failed to consider course and venue rental fees, insurance, trophy cost, printing, supplies, trash, etc.? You also failed to mention that scrip was redeemed through a partnership with Huklab which reduced the value paid, but helped to increase the variety and quality of products offered for the players or that we were redeeming $10 scrip vouchers for $20 discs. You didn't notice that we sponsored less fortunate player's entry fees, awarded non-cashing ams with additional schwag, or that we allocated one dollar from each entry to a course improvement fund. We even priced our fundraiser discs (GLO ROC3's) far below retail value as a benefit to the players in attendance.

    We never claimed that the event offered an exorbitant payout. It was sanctioned as a C-Tier. The real factor that limited payout was a lack of sponsorship in the form of added cash. The community of Sisters has already contributed heavily to the initial course installation and the community center, so instead of begging them for contributions, we partner with them in order to encourage our players to give back. We had plenty of prizes to award for side games and other feats that merited recognition.

    Thanks discaddiction for donating two discs to the event in exchange for advertising and the benefit of selling 43 discs to the tournament players. I'm sure the next generation of disc golfers will appreciate your thoughtful comments and the dregs from the load of toxic rit dye and acetone that your wife dumped all over our course. Next time, take your concerns to the TD in private or keep your slanderous thoughts to yourself...

    Maybe I read the blog wrong but it seemed like the only negative he had to say about the whole event was the payout. He had several positives about the event and merely was frustrated that 1st place payout was just over his entry fee. From the tone of the writing I would say he had a blast and thinks it is a great event.
    -kris
    If people only had one complaint about events around (within 45miles) here I would be thrilled.

    Comment


    • #62
      Sorry you took my observations personally Ryan, I went over and above to glorify all the things you guys kicked ass on. I tried to offer an honest assessment of the perception am players had about payouts, as it was mentioned a lot by people in non open divisions. I understand people dont often speak brazenly in open forums, but Ive chosen to. You have as well at this point. The difference is that I didnt stoop to bad mouthing your significant other, or accuse you of polluting the environment. Both of which are over the line. My opinion was rooted in fact, as per PDGA tour standards and my own personal experience running C-tiers for the past 4 years. Which means i understand additional expenses and hidden costs. It doesnt change the fact of what percentages were paid to open vs. am. Glad you could ignore all the compliments I had for you, your staff, and your course and choose to be venemous towards myself and Danni because I dont just drink the Kool-aid when it comes to growing my sport the correct way. I still loved being in Sisters and playing Pine Jam and I thank you for that and the opportunity to dye discs in a new area.
      www.DiscAddiction.com - Apparel, Custom Discs, and more
      www.WhidbeyIslandDiscGolf.com - club details

      Comment


      • #63
        Oh and two more quickies

        *Danni did 43 discs over the past two weekends as it said at the top

        * I was charged regular price for discs in the Huklab tent, not sure what the 20 for 10 comment meant. Got an aviar for 10 a champ firebird for 17 and a towel for 9 with my "$"40 scrip
        Last edited by Yammits; June 6th, 2013, 08:12 AM.
        www.DiscAddiction.com - Apparel, Custom Discs, and more
        www.WhidbeyIslandDiscGolf.com - club details

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Danni View Post
          I won't speak to the rest of the comments, because The Blog is Tim's project, but I will address the above issues since they were in my direction.

          First, I'm not upset, I understand not everyone has dyed discs and I know Ryan is one of those people. I just don't want anyone to misunderstand how the process is done.

          1) ZERO acetone is or was spilled, a small about of acetone is placed on a paper towel to "remove the factory stamp" and then that paper towel was placed in a trash bag.

          2) I recycle all of my rit dye (it's too difficult to find the type that actually dyes plastic now to be wasteful)

          3) the only thing that was "dumped" was the bucket of water I used to wash the disc off. Yes, there is a small about of residue from the disc dye that is in the water, but it's heavily diluted with water obviously- this is just done to end the dyeing process. This bucket was "dumped" in a bush and like I said it's mostly water.

          4) I'd love to have done 43 discs for people, but that's actually physically impossible for me (just time wise) but I was thrilled to have done 21 designs for the players at the tourney.

          I'll leave the rest for others to debate.
          I have dyed discs. There are more responsible ways to dispose of waste. I offered the sink.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Yammits View Post
            Sorry you took my observations personally Ryan, I went over and above to glorify all the things you guys kicked ass on. I tried to offer an honest assessment of the perception am players had about payouts, as it was mentioned a lot by people in non open divisions. I understand people dont often speak brazenly in open forums, but Ive chosen to. You have as well at this point. The difference is that I didnt stoop to bad mouthing your significant other, or accuse you of polluting the environment. Both of which are over the line. My opinion was rooted in fact, as per PDGA tour standards and my own personal experience running C-tiers for the past 4 years. Which means i understand additional expenses and hidden costs. It doesnt change the fact of what percentages were paid to open vs. am. Glad you could ignore all the compliments I had for you, your staff, and your course and choose to be venemous towards myself and Danni because I dont just drink the Kool-aid when it comes to growing my sport the correct way. I still loved being in Sisters and playing Pine Jam and I thank you for that and the opportunity to dye discs in a new area.
            I didn't feel the need to address the compliments and I do appreciate them. Since you were attempting to point out the shortfalls of the event, I chose to identify areas where you could have helped to improve it; like by providing more sponsorship support and/or being a good steward by respecting the course and community.

            Point is, your payout calculations are wrong. The payout exceeded C-tier standards and there was zero am cash added to the pro payout. I don't appreciate you presenting unsubstantiated ideas as fact. The payout tables were posted following the first round and you could have asked about expenses if you were concerned enough to present it this way.

            Comment


            • #66
              Things seem to go better when people bring their concerns or complaints directly to the Tournament Director and not directly to the internet.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Matt B. View Post
                Things seem to go better when people bring their concerns or complaints directly to the Tournament Director and not directly to the internet.
                Agreed. I've rarely seen a difference of opinions turn out well when one of the parties feels backed into a corner.

                I respect when people who are willing to tackle difficult subjects and speak their minds, however, I also appreciate addressing the issue, while at the same time allowing people to save face.

                Jeff

                Tact: The fine art of telling someone to go to hell... and making them feel happy to be on their way.
                "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Bullseye View Post
                  Agreed. I've rarely seen a difference of opinions turn out well when one of the parties feels backed into a corner.

                  I respect when people who are willing to tackle difficult subjects and speak their minds, however, I also appreciate addressing the issue, while at the same time allowing people to save face.

                  Jeff

                  Tact: The fine art of telling someone to go to hell... and making them feel happy to be on their way.
                  I am on the other side of the tracks I love it when people come up to me and say hey this could be different. But I actually prefer for it to be brought up on the correct forum and through facebook so others can add what they think about it.
                  I cannot make an event grow and change if I dont know what is wrong but if i just change what the people come up to me about....people would be upset...will leave it at that.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Cerrgurry View Post
                    I am on the other side of the tracks I love it when people come up to me and say hey this could be different. But I actually prefer for it to be brought up on the correct forum and through facebook so others can add what they think about it.
                    I cannot make an event grow and change if I dont know what is wrong but if i just change what the people come up to me about....people would be upset...will leave it at that.
                    But there's nothing stopping someone from taking their concerns and complaints to the internet AFTER they've talked to the TD, gotten facts, and given the person they are criticizing the chance to communicate directly.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I'd just like to say that as an Am player I love Ryan's tourneys because you get some breakfast, a good lunch, a good selection of stuff to spend your scrip on and scores/ratings are posted FAST (like crazy fast).

                      Funds are required to make some of these things happen and if that means a slightly smaller payout then so be it. If you are doing this for the $, you better be playing Pro...

                      Originally posted by Yammits View Post
                      I've been writing a tournament blog as I go around the country this summer, making observations and working towards the end goal of making the sport better, FASTER.

                      http://www.tumblr.com/blog/yammits
                      I think this is a great idea...but either I missed something or there is really only one blog entry preceding the pine jam. You might want to scope some other payout structures before bashing this one, I think you'll be hard pressed to find one that is significantly better. Even if you win the BSF (which you should feel lucky as hell for getting into!!) the scrip is about $120 for 1st in a field of almost 80 players! That's only $45 more than your entry fee!

                      I love competitive disc golf. I assume the competition is what drives most of us to play these tournaments. If the payout you receive is important as well, then you gotta move up to Open...

                      Finally, I skimmed the blog entry quickly so may have missed it, but one thing Ryan did this year that is way above and beyond is opening the tournament up to way more players by running two flights. I can only image the headache two flights caused for him and Gretchen...All of us Am's should be very grateful for this because our payout wouldn't have been even close to what it was if the field was cut in half.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I see all the points being voiced. Im new at this(blog writing) and know that I'm not doing everything perfect either. Approaching the TD before voicing on the internet is good constructive criticism that I'll apply moving forward. I see criticsm as a chance to do things better, not a chance to get into a defensive posture where I insult people. If you think my responses have been less tactful than Ryan's thats a bit humorous though. Thats the last Im saying on Pine Jam, love the memories and once again am thankful for the hospitality.
                        www.DiscAddiction.com - Apparel, Custom Discs, and more
                        www.WhidbeyIslandDiscGolf.com - club details

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Danni and Yammits,

                          Sorry for my overreaction. I need to learn how to accept criticism and move on without retaliating. I am practicing right now.

                          Thank you both for your contributions to the event.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by discVENTures View Post
                            Danni and Yammits,

                            Sorry for my overreaction. I need to learn how to accept criticism and move on without retaliating. I am practicing right now.

                            Thank you both for your contributions to the event.
                            A heartfelt thank you from us as well, i meant no disrespect and ill improve my quasi-journalism as i move on. I shouldve approached you first and im sorry for that. You really truly did run a phenomenal event dude. Bring it in for a hug lol
                            www.DiscAddiction.com - Apparel, Custom Discs, and more
                            www.WhidbeyIslandDiscGolf.com - club details

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              loving cup

                              Originally posted by bryan_luoma View Post
                              Thanks for sharing Yammits. A bit of a buzz kill.
                              buzz revived! Oh, what a beautiful buzz!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I read the blog myself and considering it was my first tournament ever last year, I'll chime in slightly.

                                I thought last year's event, being smaller than other tournaments I've spectated at, was impressive enough being a newbie. Coffee and bananas in the morning, shower access, lunch both days, helpful staffing, etc was nothing to complain about.

                                This year added the Huk Lab van and Disc Addiction, putting and driving competitions, sweet tourney stamped discs, etc

                                Want a better prize? Play better. Play better in high divisions. I didn't even qualify for scrip but improved dramatically over previous year and considered that a win!

                                I think Ryan and company put on a great effort and the amount of work for the basket switches and all is worth acknowledging.

                                Lastly, Danni, to stay you didn't go overboard on dumping rather it was minimal sounds like a person's argument for fluoridated water because it's just a little fluoride. NO THANKS!

                                Kudos to Disc Ventures. More of the Portland crew will be there next year because of the awesome tourney that it is and is growing to be!

                                Comment

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