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  • Where do we go from here?

    With the 'transformation' of the Oregon Series there is going to be an organizational vacuum for the next year or so.

    Here're some questions to ponder before the GNO.
    1. Do qualifiers from last year still get an early registration period?
    2. Or, can clubs give registration preferance to club members for events that are expected to sell out? (If so, there's several clubs I'm going to join tomorrow).
    3. Is any entity going to track overall series points and declare series winners?
    4. If so, are players willing to spend an extra buck or so per event for trophies, assuming the clubs are willing to collect and track it.
    5. Are there any
    quality control (as in payout) standards that can be applied to these events?

    It seems like the clubs are pretty much on their own to answer these, and a lot of other, questions. I know we'll be talking about it at the Eugene Club meeting next week.

    Should be an interesting summer.

  • #2
    6. If someone tracks the Oregon Series points, will they please put into place tiebreak procedures for trophy positions?
    Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
    Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
    Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
    Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
    Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

    Comment


    • #3
      7. Who will answer any of these questions?



      EDIT:
      Which is to say, who will answer the questions by answering the call to leadership?
      Last edited by proto something or other; February 27th, 2009, 08:50 PM. Reason: Clarification
      Ruining everyone else's fun since 1998.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jim J View Post
        With the 'transformation' of the Oregon Series there is going to be an organizational vacuum for the next year or so.

        Here're some questions to ponder before the GNO.
        1. Do qualifiers from last year still get an early registration period?

          This has NOT been discussed by the TD's.....I guess that we SHOULD follow the same rules that have been in place.
        2. Or, can clubs give registration preferance to club members for events that are expected to sell out? (If so, there's several clubs I'm going to join tomorrow).
          I would surely HOPE that TD's would not do this...
        3. Is any entity going to track overall series points and declare series winners?
          FLASH has said that he would continue to do the points for the Series...I have "offered" to keep Series fees for end of year payout.
        4. If so, are players willing to spend an extra buck or so per event for trophies, assuming the clubs are willing to collect and track it.
          I am proposing a $2 per player fee that will be used for END of season awards, with full disclosure of finances at end of year
        5. Are there any
        quality control (as in payout) standards that can be applied to these events?
        For now TD's will follow basic guidelines for a PDGA B Tier event, which states the guidelines for payout ,etc.

        It seems like the clubs are pretty much on their own to answer these, and a lot of other, questions. I know we'll be talking about it at the Eugene Club meeting next week.

        Should be an interesting summer.

        The "SHOW" will be up to the individual TD's to run. It will depend on each individual TD/Club resources as to what extent that will be.

        I AM also proposing a CHANGE in the points system....

        The current system can be unfair, IMO...
        WHY should someone who gets 2nd place in a 2 person Divison get MORE points than a person who finishes 3rd in 10 person division?

        Id like to start awarding points from the bottom UP instead of the Top DOWN.

        example...Play the event you get 10 pts + 1 point for every person you beat.

        Thoughts??

        Any thoughts??


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Magilla View Post
          Id like to start awarding points from the bottom UP instead of the Top DOWN.

          example...Play the event you get 10 pts + 1 point for every person you beat.
          I completely agree. But why 10? Why not 1 for playing the event and 1 for every person you beat?
          ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
          ~Annika SŲrenstam

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Magilla View Post
            The "SHOW" will be up to the individual TD's to run. It will depend on each individual TD/Club resources as to what extent that will be.
            The focus, I think, should be exclusively on the clubs, not the TDs since the clubs select the TD.

            I think each club that ran an ORS event last year needs to step up by appointing one person to an inter-club committee to hash out these issues and come up with some solutions. Then each club can ratify the recommendations as they see fit.

            Otherwise everything's just a bunch of words floating around in cyber-space (and we all know how silly those things can be).

            Comment


            • #7
              Great idea about avoiding top loading. I have always thought that last place should get 25 points
              minimum then you take the number of player divided into 75 divided by 10 players = 7.5 points per place.

              1st 100, 2-92.5, 3-85, 4-78.5, 5-71, 6-63.5, 7-56, 8-48.5, 8-41, 9-33.5 10-26.5

              Say there is a three way tie for 5,6,7 add total points (195.5) divide by 3 and 63.5 is their total points. This system takes into consideration field size.

              The best line is full financial Disclosure at the end of the year.

              Now thats a State series I can and will support
              rewindb.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jim J View Post
                The focus, I think, should be exclusively on the clubs, not the TDs since the clubs select the TD.

                I think each club that ran an ORS event last year needs to step up by appointing one person to an inter-club committee to hash out these issues and come up with some solutions. Then each club can ratify the recommendations as they see fit.

                Otherwise everything's just a bunch of words floating around in cyber-space (and we all know how silly those things can be).
                While I agree that there needs to be a "committee" with representatives from each "Region", It is still the TD that makes the Final decisions as to how an event will turn out.
                Sure there are exceptions BUT in most cases it has been the same TD's that have run the events and, for now, should be the primary focus when discussing what we do in the short term.

                Im not seeing what the "Issues" are OR what the clubs would need to "ratify......as they see fit"?

                The "Rules" are already in place and have been the norm.... BUT seeing how the "Staff" isnt going to be traveling with Merch & the "Show" there is no reason to continue the $5 fee.....hence my proposition to reduce it to $2

                The points is something that can be discussed BUT as of now nothing has changed and will be calc'd the same as always.

                There is NO reason to change anything as far as the "Rules" go.
                We the players & the TD's are used to them and should just "Play On".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Magilla View Post
                  The points is something that can be discussed BUT as of now nothing has changed and will be calc'd the same as always.

                  There is NO reason to change anything as far as the "Rules" go.
                  Sorry, there is a VERY big reason to change the system as mentioned above by Treelove: A TIE FOR THE SERIES TROPHY SUCKS BALLS! Pull your head out and give us some constructive leadership on this topic please! If you are going to change the $ fee/per person going to the series payout you can at least fix the problem of ties in trophy positions at the series end.

                  KEEPING IT THE SAME WILL MEAN THAT IT STILL SUCKS BALLS!

                  And yes, I AM that pissed off about it.
                  Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                  Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                  Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                  Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                  Or does here stand the last remaining man
                  To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                  No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                  Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                  Iíll not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As far as the points go I think changing the way points are calculated will improve the unlikeliness of a tie. Also rules need to be added or ammended that will address issues like those pointed out by Gawain and Jordan.

                    I have devised a points system based on stroke pay that I believe is fair and has worked for the stumptown series last year. I also kept the points this way for the Oregon Series 2008 as a trial to see if the outcome would be the same as the current system. I have removed the need for the tie breaker by moving away from integers and allowed a greater display of on course dominance. My points system does not care if there is 1 person playing, three persons playing or 200 persons playing, it is all based on stroke play against your field and last place will never get zero, unlike the current point system when more that 100 people signup in a division. I don't really like Magilla's idea because it rewards people who play and win in large events but penalizes those players in events with smaller field sizes. We need to move away from points based on field sizes.

                    I also believe that offering one point for playing is lame because its the equivalent of showing up or beating one person. Get rid of the entire mentality of awarding points based on participation, you are trying to crown a champion. Track the events and see who has played in what events but do not award someone 1 point for showing up, puking on the 5th hole and leaving. Acknowledge that they showed up and played by including the event in their list of events played. Also I would like to include a rule that if a final nine is included in the play of the event that the points are based on the rounds that everyone plays not the extra nine holes a few players play.

                    If we are going to do things the old way I am not sure I want to continue doing the points, but if we are looking to improve the system and start crowning a champion based on play on the courses used for the series then I am in.

                    With the $2.00 dollar fee are you just thinking of giving trophies and payout or are you also going to keep the teeshirts for 4 of 7 played, and the end of year prize for 7 of 7 events played. I think if you do not include these incentives your fan base may suffer.
                    PDGA #25296
                    Stumptown #34

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd like to see people that play all or at least 4 still be rewarded for supporting the series
                      points based on size of field does not make sence
                      i could win 6 events with five in the field,get last in 7th event with 35 people and possible lose overall to someone playing one event, not
                      it takes the players to make a series,it takes good leadership to have a great series,
                      without the players there are events
                      maybe put a vote to the qualifiers and see if they did not attend at least four to assure next years entry,
                      i would like to see all the t.d's agree on whatever we do and do it with the players in mind

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SMOKIN JOE View Post
                        I'd like to see people that play all or at least 4 still be rewarded for supporting the series
                        points based on size of field does not make sence
                        i could win 6 events with five in the field,get last in 7th event with 35 people and possible lose overall to someone playing one event, not
                        it takes the players to make a series,it takes good leadership to have a great series,
                        without the players there are events
                        maybe put a vote to the qualifiers and see if they did not attend at least four to assure next years entry,
                        i would like to see all the t.d's agree on whatever we do and do it with the players in mind

                        ALL TD's will need to agree on ANY changes...to be made.
                        I guess that would say that currently the fee is still $5 per player, BUT I dont see that as necessary UNTIL there are "assets" that need to transported from event to event as in the past.
                        We "should" be able to offer ALL of the same end of season awards...BUT the "quality" MAY be reduced due to the reduction in fees. Those $ "could" be supplimented by "Series" fundraiser Discs, etc.
                        I am NEUTRAL on the fee really.....The more money collected, just helps the end of season awards.

                        On Points...Someone playing 1 event CANT win the overall....the CURRENT rule requires a minimum of 4 events to qualify for Final Awards. That wont change.

                        We surely need a way to address ties.....a new pts system "should" fix that.
                        Im sure that Mike (Flash) can come up with a fair & consistant method that could be agreed upon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you really want to pick a series champion:

                          Base it on player ratings. Average the ratings of the player's best four tournaments during the season.

                          No ties, no complicated formulas. The best golfer wins and it doesn't matter what the field size is.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jim J View Post
                            If you really want to pick a series champion:

                            Base it on player ratings. Average the ratings of the player's best four tournaments during the season.

                            No ties, no complicated formulas. The best golfer wins and it doesn't matter what the field size is.

                            Rating vary GREATLY depending on which course you play as well as the people playing the course......

                            Its a nice thought BUT it would work out so well

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Magilla View Post
                              Rating vary GREATLY depending on which course you play as well as the people playing the course......

                              Its a nice thought BUT it would work out so well
                              I assume you mean "Its a nice thought BUT it would not work out so well"

                              Comment

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