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  • Originally posted by Gordy #21004 View Post
    The discussion of an out-of-bounds came up on the day we were installing the new tee and the new pin for #2. The saplings in question are in the fairway a little short of the green (30 to 40') and lie slightly to the right of the line-of-play. They are the only young trees in this area and there are very few of them. Our idea was to contain them in their own little OB area. We thought that if you let players take a free drop or something beside or in front of the trees then they would more likely be left unmolested. (for competitive play a penalty would be assessed if you landed in the OB) Otherwise the trees will soon be victims. We thought that a permanent in-ground line ( something you wouldn't trip over) would be best. A set- in line of bricks came to mind; paint them blue and call it the'Lake' (optional).
    The only problem with this is that, well, it wouldn't protect the saplings. To illustrate my point, over the bank on holes 2 and 15 are OB and yet the bank has still become highly eroded. Competitive players may respect an OB, Lake, or Mando, but the majority of players at DR will not.

    That being said, I think roping it off or painting a line to mark the lake for tournament play is a great idea.


    Originally posted by Gordy #21004 View Post
    We also discussed either a mando or an OB to protect the 17th green. I personally think an OB protecting the 17th green would be a better solution than a mando.
    I think an OB here would be both a good idea and easy to do. There are some big rocks that are out of the rock pile proper and in the fairways for #2 and #17. Just moving these free rocks into a line from the tip of the rock pile to the tree that is northwest of 17's basket. This will create an OB line that will require little maintenance and is quite visible, distinct, and obvious. Roping off the rock pile and calling it OB for tournaments would also make sure there was no question as to what is in or out of bounds.

    I think for tournaments, using this OB AND a mando left is the best option because it will keep righties from throwing hyzers over 17's green.


    Originally posted by Gordy #21004 View Post
    (there will be a pair of mandos installed for the new arrangement at # 15 anyway)
    I've seen the ribbons for the suggested mandos on 15, and they are entirely unnecessary. There is a "fun route" where a righty can throw a huge anhyzer down the road, but no one would seriously consider throwing it in a tournament. And in a casual round, a mando would not stop someone from throwing this route.

    Originally posted by Gordy #21004 View Post
    The notion that #2 could be made even tougher by installing an OB line on the inland side of the park path that wraps up the left side of the fairway and green is something we are also considering.
    I think making anything left of the main path OB on this hole is a good idea both playability-wise and erosion-wise. Depending on the placement of the pin, making the hole path OB as well may be a good idea as well. I normally dislike artificial OB, but it is necessary on this hole for several reasons. We just have to accept that it will not be followed by the majority of casual players.
    We're at our best when it's from our hips

    Comment


    • Meeting

      I am concerned about all the changes which entail marking O.B. and instituting mando's which aren't obvious to the average players.
      If you arrange the course in this way it will work great for the 2-4 tourneys a year but it will be a disaster for the other 350+ days of the year where casual players don't care.

      We should be developing the course to make it playable...
      If I am putting on 17 and a random intoxicated douche is slingin' a side-arm on 2... no ribbon is gonna save me; Nor is a pile of rocks or a line gonna save the small trees.
      I still think we can DESIGN the holes to keep these issues OUT of PLAY!
      Eric seems to be the person we put in charge of this, I believe he can be trusted to develop something that works.

      I am sorry if this insults anybody, it is not meant to; just my 2 cents.
      I think we have amazing possibilities in place if we decide to work as a team.
      When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

      Comment


      • Unless you have a massive property to work with or some amazingly thick tree barriers in between every single hole, there will always be some risk of getting hit by the disc. Its the same with ball golf, baseball, and any other sport.

        The idea is to minimize the risk and work with what we have. Hole 2 and 17 are wide open areas, and so there is not much you can do with natural barriers. Right now, there is good visibility between the two holes and that is one of the best things for safety. A blind shot would have a much greater risk of getting hit.

        Drunken douche can find a way to hit you all over Downriver. From 1's tee he can hit you on 11 and 17, drunken douche can hit you on 18 from 17, on 16 from 12, on 15 from 14, etc.

        Ideally, I'd like to plant a string of trees that catch discs all along the rock pile between the two holes, but I don't think its a realistic solution. The only thing we can do without a full redesign to improve safety from drunken douche would be to nerf 2 and 17 to the point where they are no longer fun to play. And let drunken douche know that he should wait if there is a risk of hitting someone that is putting, and that he needs to yell fore if he does throw a shot that may go near someone.
        We're at our best when it's from our hips

        Comment


        • These are the reasons why I have been wanting a club meeting and the reason I am a proponent of a complete redesign of my beloved Downriver which I have been playing since there was paint on the trees. Times change, Courses Change, adapt or fall by the wayside..
          Relax and enjoy your hair
          TNT Yardworks.com

          Comment


          • I like the idea of changing the course and doing as much as possible to keep rogue throws from hitting others. The serious disc'ers out there will probably follow the mandos and OBs, but I think Parks is right - most people will not. I appreciate the work the club and players have done for the course.

            That being said, I saw a blue line painted about 30 feet in front of and to the right of Hole #1's tee. Is this a proposed throw spot? The Hole 1/11 debacle is probably the most dangerous spot on the course currently, and throwing from this spot would probably help a bit, although it is quite easy.

            Also, changes to Hole 8? Anything? I see the pad is not up the hill anymore.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SeanT00 View Post
              I see the pad is not up the hill anymore.
              The pad was actually stolen a few weeks ago.
              "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

              Comment


              • Parks...

                I agree with you, errant throws happen and need to be watched for.
                It's part of the game...

                I don't agree with the course being set up so that pins are so close that a semi-decent shot would have a good chance of hitting someone. A point I didn't make very well.

                If we plan on planting barrier trees... I LOVE the idea. Lets do it. I'll help.
                If we need to put in another type of barrier, check out the wackiness at 'Mineral Springs' (North Park) in Seattle... anything is possible but our design can definitely improve safety.

                All said, I would love a re-design of Downriver. I think that property has amazing possibilities that are not being used to potential. And with the new set-up at Highbridge... we need a course Pro's enjoy playing and amateurs can better use to improve their game.
                When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a Frisbee.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jshrack View Post
                  All said, I would love a re-design of Downriver. I think that property has amazing possibilities that are not being used to potential.
                  Not going to happen at this point. The last two years of club meetings all had stuff in them about DR redesigns and nothing came out of it that would make it worth doing.

                  Fixing a few holes to remove safety and erosion issues and leaving the rest alone really is the best option for DR. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

                  Originally posted by jshrack View Post
                  And with the new set-up at Highbridge... we need a course Pro's enjoy playing and amateurs can better use to improve their game.
                  This is the plan for Camp Sekani which the Parks Dept. will let us do after we get set up in People's Park, or hopefully they'll let us do it if it is clear that the PP bureaucratic red tape is endless. I wanted to do a truly challenging course with People's Park, but it just wasn't feasible with the land.

                  Right now, unfortunately, the best bet to play a course like this is over an hour away at Farragut.
                  We're at our best when it's from our hips

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tomw
                    PS Why not the CE RE design? TW
                    I think the C Re design did not work within the Parks Dept restrictions (staying away from bank, no cutting of trees). There might have been other ways to do it; I was personally really hoping for a full redesign but that train has left the station.

                    Comment


                    • #8, reborn!

                      In an effort to move forward with the situation as it stands and offer a suggestion...

                      I think there could be a better solution for the need to change #8 and instead, add a new challenging hole. Rather than keep the old teepad at the top of the hill, bring the entire hole down to ground level and play the unused old #8 fairway backwards. If #7's teepad does get moved back and to the left (which I assume would be on the road), a teepad for #8 could be placed just behind the two large pines at the bottom of the hill, forcing a tight drive back up the old fairway and keeping sticky-fingered hyzers from bombing on #7's tee. The pin for this new hole would then be placed in the small clearing to the east of #6's pin, but closer to the bottom of the hill and protected from the intended approach by the large shrubs bordering the open area. this would create a medium-length blind dog-leg to the left that would present a challenging deuce for a Pro, but would be a good challenge to keep par for Am/Rec players. There is plenty of heavy protection around #6's pin to ward off upshots with too much gas and there are a few deadfall logs in the clearing that could be drug out and used to demarcate a safe trail--both from #6 pin to #7 tee and from (this hypothetical) #8 pin to #9 tee. If there is no objection to doing so, this proposed hole could be laid out with surveyor's tape and a bucket target. Hmm?
                      Last edited by Burge; September 11th, 2010, 05:06 PM.
                      "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Burge View Post
                        In an effort to move forward with the situation as it stands and offer a suggestion...

                        I think there could be a better solution for the need to change of #8 and instead, add a new challenging hole. Rather than keep the old teepad at the top of the hill, bring the entire hole down to ground level and play the unused old #8 fairway backwards. If #7's teepad does get moved back and to the left (which I assume would be on the road), a teepad for #8 could be placed just behind the two large pines at the bottom of the hill, forcing a tight drive back up the old fairway and keeping sticky-fingered hyzers from bombing on #7's tee. The pin for this new hole would then be placed in the small clearing to the east of #6's pin, but closer to the bottom of the hill and protected from the intended approach by the large shrubs bordering the open area. this would create a medium-length blind dog-leg to the left that would present a challenging deuce for a Pro, but would be a good challenge to keep par for Am/Rec players. There is plenty of heavy protection around #6's pin to ward off upshots with too much gas and there are a few deadfall logs in the clearing that could be drug out and used to demarcate a safe trail--both from #6 pin to #7 tee and from (this hypothetical) #8 pin to #9 tee. If there is no objection to doing so, this proposed hole could be laid out with surveyor's tape and a bucket target. Hmm?
                        Great idea. I don't think many people will be too upset at not having to climb up the hill to get to the tee. Also, I think the course needs another hyzer hole to balance things out a bit. There are several holes that favor anhyzer/forehand shots (3,4,11,13 new 15, and 16), many holes that play straight or end straight after a S-curve (1,2,5,7,9,10,12,17, and 18) but how many holes on the courses finish left or favor a hyzer line? Sure hyzers can be thrown on many of the holes I mentioned, but 6 is the only hole that seems like a hyzer is the primary route.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Burge View Post
                          In an effort to move forward with the situation as it stands and offer a suggestion...

                          I think there could be a better solution for the need to change #8 and instead, add a new challenging hole. Rather than keep the old teepad at the top of the hill, bring the entire hole down to ground level and play the unused old #8 fairway backwards. If #7's teepad does get moved back and to the left (which I assume would be on the road), a teepad for #8 could be placed just behind the two large pines at the bottom of the hill, forcing a tight drive back up the old fairway and keeping sticky-fingered hyzers from bombing on #7's tee. The pin for this new hole would then be placed in the small clearing to the east of #6's pin, but closer to the bottom of the hill and protected from the intended approach by the large shrubs bordering the open area. this would create a medium-length blind dog-leg to the left that would present a challenging deuce for a Pro, but would be a good challenge to keep par for Am/Rec players. There is plenty of heavy protection around #6's pin to ward off upshots with too much gas and there are a few deadfall logs in the clearing that could be drug out and used to demarcate a safe trail--both from #6 pin to #7 tee and from (this hypothetical) #8 pin to #9 tee. If there is no objection to doing so, this proposed hole could be laid out with surveyor's tape and a bucket target. Hmm?
                          This or something similar has been kicked around a lot. I think C-Re's design had a variation on this that was pretty cool.

                          It wouldn't be so bad if it wouldn't be cutting out the only true downhill shot on the course.

                          Originally posted by Sean Johnson
                          Great idea. I don't think many people will be too upset at not having to climb up the hill to get to the tee.
                          That walk up the hill is worth it for a solid downhill throw.

                          I know there's a small number of people that don't like losing discs on 7 and don't like walking up the hill on 8 so they just skip that little turn and go straight to 9. Its always an option in casual play, just be courteous and don't cut in front of a faster group.
                          We're at our best when it's from our hips

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Parks View Post
                            This or something similar has been kicked around a lot. I think C-Re's design had a variation on this that was pretty cool.
                            It wouldn't be so bad if it wouldn't be cutting out the only true downhill shot on the course.
                            That walk up the hill is worth it for a solid downhill throw.
                            Well, (and I'm sorry to say, Sean-J) I think the walk up the hill, or most of it, would still be necessary so that players finishing #7 wouldn't walk straight back down the fairway to the proposed #8 tee. Also, I agree with Tom that old #6 was the better downhill shot...Here's another thought though...

                            I've also mulled about this possibility: keep the tee at the top of the hill, but put the pin in the clearing I'm talking about (E. of #6). Now, THAT would be a fun downhill shot. That way, it could be a good run at par for a Pro, but could represent a daunting hole for the average player, thereby bringing back a little more of the 'tough' rep that DR seems to have lost since the change from the old "21". For this option, the pin could be placed more near the center of the clearing, giving the outside chance at a miracle hyzer sky-bomb ace. Howz 'bout dem apples?
                            "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix

                            Comment


                            • The walk up the hill never bothered me, and I think that we are losing one of the best holes on the course, though I've never had much luck with the current placement. Regardless, challenge is what makes a good hole. I'd like to see the elevation stay, especially since I see no other safe way to 8's teepad (wherever it ends up). Personally, I think that we should keep the teepad and play down the hill just like you said, and I hope that the approach is still a healthy distance from the landing area. Shot placement would become the name of the game, as I could see skips turning a good shot bad. This way, we preserve the fun and challenge of an elevation shot without the risk of lost discs or erosion.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tomw
                                Make the course safe and challenging to play for all levels.
                                I agree with that.

                                Originally posted by tomw
                                I also think old #6 was a better downhill throw, risk reward, than old #10, new #8
                                I disagree with this. Old 6 was a very safe overhand shot, low hyzer for lefty or righty, a straight floaty putter/mid shot, or a mid/driver skip up to the basket. All these shots were very safe, and you would have to overpower it a fair amount to end up in the river. And 99% of the time if you messed up you had a wide open approach and an easy par.

                                Current 10, old 8, is much more of a finesse shot. For a righty, you want to throw a straight and low shot with a mid, and if you don't get the right touch on it you can accidentally turn over this shot too much and end in the river. For a lefty, its a straight shot or a slight hyzer, either of which can fade or skip into the river if you don't execute it well. The risk/reward is way more intense on this hole.

                                Originally posted by Burge View Post
                                Well, (and I'm sorry to say, Sean-J) I think the walk up the hill, or most of it, would still be necessary so that players finishing #7 wouldn't walk straight back down the fairway to the proposed #8 tee. Also, I agree with Tom that old #6 was the better downhill shot...Here's another thought though...

                                I've also mulled about this possibility: keep the tee at the top of the hill, but put the pin in the clearing I'm talking about (E. of #6). Now, THAT would be a fun downhill shot. That way, it could be a good run at par for a Pro, but could represent a daunting hole for the average player, thereby bringing back a little more of the 'tough' rep that DR seems to have lost since the change from the old "21". For this option, the pin could be placed more near the center of the clearing, giving the outside chance at a miracle hyzer sky-bomb ace. Howz 'bout dem apples?
                                The hole will actually be changed somewhat similar to this to prevent the safety issues on hole 7 and 8. The tee will be the same, and the pin will be place in the trees in between old 8's fairway and current 7's teepad in the clearing where there is an obvious green. There will be a safe righty hyzer or sharp lefty turn, or you can play it straight and low to current 7's teepad area. These are usually solid par shots. The best chance at a deuce is a shot that plays left of the path going down the hill and brings the trees over there into play. This is a very risk/reward oriented shot, as the deuce run can easily leave you with a 4, and the safe shots are almost always pars. Hole 7's teepad will be moved behind the current pin location for 8 to make this turn very safe and fast moving for tournament play.
                                We're at our best when it's from our hips

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