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  • New Springtime Pin Locations

    what are your thoughts on the new pin locations?


    not sure how i feel about them yet. IMO #4 shouldnt have been touched. i liked how it was a high risk reward putt when the basket was right on the edge of the hill. i assume they changed it for erosion purposes, but the hole just doesnt play like it used to for me.

    on the other hand tho i really enjoy that they shortened up # 9. putting out is a lot safer(less of a chance of get hit by #4 teepads drives) and it makes it possible for average player to be putting by their 3rd shot. which before, i feel like a par was pretty unattainable for the average player on that hole because of the length and the fear of water all along the rightside.

  • #2
    I think the new pin locations are all laughable. The teeth Downriver used to have are being ground down into harmless nubs. So to reiterate, I do not like them.
    "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
    Cleveland Brown

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    • #3
      And the old 9 position can be an easy 3 if you break it down as a controlled 250 foot shot followed by another and then a putt. Everyone wants to crush one however and that is why people think the hole is so difficult. I do like 2 going back to the original position when it was a 21 hole
      "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
      Cleveland Brown

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Northsidedallin View Post
        what are your thoughts on the new pin locations?


        not sure how i feel about them yet. IMO #4 shouldnt have been touched. i liked how it was a high risk reward putt when the basket was right on the edge of the hill. i assume they changed it for erosion purposes, but the hole just doesnt play like it used to for me.

        on the other hand tho i really enjoy that they shortened up # 9. putting out is a lot safer(less of a chance of get hit by #4 teepads drives) and it makes it possible for average player to be putting by their 3rd shot. which before, i feel like a par was pretty unattainable for the average player on that hole because of the length and the fear of water all along the rightside.
        #4's new position is #4's original pin position from before the big tree fell on it many years ago. There is an alternate position that is further up the road that hasn't been installed yet.
        Fly free and straight to the pin!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by General Scales View Post
          I think the new pin locations are all laughable. The teeth Downriver used to have are being ground down into harmless nubs. So to reiterate, I do not like them.
          Some people complain about holes being too long and the beginners not having any chance to make pars. Others complain because the teeth have been taken out of Downriver. Some people are just fine about the alts. The alternates are an effort to make the course more varied and fun for all. If you don't like the course, don't play there, there will be plenty of people to take your place.
          Fly free and straight to the pin!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wobbly Bob View Post
            Some people complain about holes being too long and the beginners not having any chance to make pars. Others complain because the teeth have been taken out of Downriver. Some people are just fine about the alts. The alternates are an effort to make the course more varied and fun for all. If you don't like the course, don't play there, there will be plenty of people to take your place.
            Well, the subject of the thread is: "what are your thoughts on the new pin locations?".


            To me, the course feels slightly neutered, but I do enjoy having variety and new shots to figure out. I also appreciate the efforts of those who took the time to make the changes and respect their reasoning for doing so.
            "Please throw away or pack out your garbage--except for glow stick litter."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wobbly Bob View Post
              The alternates are an effort to make the course more varied and fun for all. If you don't like the course, don't play there, there will be plenty of people to take your place.
              Well said Bob!!! First off I have to say that I tend to not be a big DR fan, so I usually choose to play elsewhere for various reasons. That aside I played DR on Thursday a.m. for the first time in a long time and I have to say the course looked BEAUTIFUL. It was apparent that a lot of man-hours have gone on out there since I was last there and it showed. Very little garbage, upgraded tee boxes, bark, etc. The course was in great shape. As for some of the new locations, first off I just thought it was cool to see alternates period. I think every player at a given course has their position preference so that fact that some of the new positions may be easier is irrelevant, at least the baskets can move and are not stuck in one boring spot that can never be changed. I didn't think 4's was unreasonable at all - and I don't just say that because I got my first ever 2 on it and it was a drop in. I feel that hole 9's change makes it more of a true par 3 whereas the long position made it more of a 3.5 - don't get me started on par "3.5s." The nice thing with 9 is that it is 2able with a decent drive as I learned the other day but just like the long position, a well controlled drive is what will play better than a crushed drive. Those are just a couple things that I really noticed. I was really quite impressed with all of the improvements and changes. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see all the new changes at HB since I was last there now!

              Nice work SDGA and volunteers Those are all changes/improvements to be proud of.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by White Walls View Post
                Well, the subject of the thread is: "what are your thoughts on the new pin locations?".
                Well, with that said, it wasn't Bob that asked the question now was it? It has become pretty commonplace around here to blast other peoples thoughts, ideas, and hard work as garbage at the drop of a dime. I think he has the right to defend the new pin placements (which as noted are not even complete) just as much as you all have the right to blast them as laughable , neutering , or whatever you will .

                Whether good or bad in people's eyes, there has been blood, sweat, and I am sure at times, tears gone into the the maintenance and decisions for our public courses. These pin placements were things discussed at the last (open to ALL members and non-) meeting that you all chose to attend or (mostly)not.

                I applaud the hard work that those people put into keeping these courses in great shape, with interesting pin placements of varying difficulty that do keep things fresh. We can't make everybody happy but we can sure have fun trying!!

                P.S. Thank's ScottW for your glass being more than half full in your comments and seeing the good being done out there!

                Everything's Gonna Be Alright
                -

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wobbly Bob View Post
                  Some people complain about holes being too long and the beginners not having any chance to make pars. Others complain because the teeth have been taken out of Downriver. Some people are just fine about the alts.
                  That's one way to look at it. Another way is that there are (mostly) objective qualities that make a hole good or bad regardless of the skill level of the players playing them.

                  Holes without routes or rely too much on "poke and hope" are bad. Crossing fairways are bad. Holes with major erosion problems are bad.

                  Holes that require good shot selection and placement are good. Holes that have scoring variation based on skill rather than luck are good. Balanced risk/reward options are good.

                  Sometimes its tough to agree on what holes are fun (excepting maybe downhill shots which almost everyone loves), but usually its easy to look at a hole and see whether or not it is actually a good golf hole.
                  We're at our best when it's from our hips

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Simmeltron View Post
                    Well, with that said, it wasn't Bob that asked the question now was it? It has become pretty commonplace around here to blast other peoples thoughts, ideas, and hard work as garbage at the drop of a dime. I think he has the right to defend the new pin placements (which as noted are not even complete) just as much as you all have the right to blast them as laughable , neutering , or whatever you will .
                    I'm sorry that you misunderstood my post. It was nothing but positive from my perspective. Please just take my words for what they say, not what you think they mean. I really meant no offence, and was trying to be honest, thankful, and complimentary.
                    "Please throw away or pack out your garbage--except for glow stick litter."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by White Walls View Post
                      I'm sorry that you misunderstood my post. It was nothing but positive from my perspective. Please just take my words for what they say, not what you think they mean. I really meant no offence, and was trying to be honest, thankful, and complimentary.
                      Oh you have nothing to be sorry about... if anything it is me for having a rough morning and trying to catch up on the latest gossip. Guess i could head to FB for that...

                      I do see your comments as positive... didn't mean to single you out bro!

                      Originally posted by Parks View Post
                      That's one way to look at it. Another way is that there are (mostly) objective qualities that make a hole good or bad regardless of the skill level of the players playing them.

                      Holes without routes or rely too much on "poke and hope" are bad. Crossing fairways are bad. Holes with major erosion problems are bad.

                      Holes that require good shot selection and placement are good. Holes that have scoring variation based on skill rather than luck are good. Balanced risk/reward options are good.

                      Sometimes its tough to agree on what holes are fun (excepting maybe downhill shots which almost everyone loves), but usually its easy to look at a hole and see whether or not it is actually a good golf hole.
                      ++++++++++1
                      -

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Simmeltron View Post
                        Oh you have nothing to be sorry about... if anything it is me for having a rough morning and trying to catch up on the latest gossip. Guess i could head to FB for that...

                        I do see your comments as positive... didn't mean to single you out bro!
                        No worries. Have a wonderful day!

                        "Please throw away or pack out your garbage--except for glow stick litter."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I didn't say I didn't appreciate people putting time and effort into the course. Just out of the new pin positions, only two of them really do anything to change the shot and make it a different play (2 and 5 which I like both of). None of the other pins seems to change the shot or make it anymore difficult. I know that the course has to cater to all that play but it seems some of them were just done without any real thought into the location.

                          I guess I should explain what I don't like instead of just saying they are laughable.

                          1.) Didn't change the shot nor make it easier for anyone who had difficulty getting to the other position. It seems like it only moved 15 feet forward.
                          2.) Actually like this new/old position.
                          3.) Not sure if this will have an alternate or not. I guess it could go back to it's original position in the middle of the hill but once again, it wouldn't change the shot or make it any easier for anyone.
                          4.) Takes the fear out of the hole. I can see that erosion may have an issue with this but it's going to to constantly be an issue for that hole as it sits on a sandy based hill side with no support.
                          5.) Changes the shot and I like it but it's definitely easier.
                          6.) Drives me nuts. It can't be more then 220 feet. Becomes a deuce or die hole. Maybe an addition of a pad back where the pad used to be could make this hole fun in this position and make a challenging hole for the long. Because of safety reasons I don't see it happening.
                          8.) Once a challenging tee shot when going for the 2, it's now a lazy shot with some hyzer finish. It pretty much made what was once a bad shot now a easy 2 attempt.
                          9.) Makes it easier for the people that don't have long throws but once again, didn't change the shot. I guess it's a good thing if you want to end the whole par 3.5 debacle that people seem to have with that hole. It will be a definite three now.
                          10.) Ugh, why? Put the basket in the trail, that seems legit. No real line to throw at the basket besides the one you were already taking to the previous position. Seems like somebody just took the metal line which attached to the bottom of the basket and stretched it at random and said that's where the alternate pin should go.
                          11.) Didn't see one but I saw a hole dug directly left of the basket position now. If that happens to be an alternate, it seems just like up above with the metal line theory. It won't change the hole in anyway big enough to be consider a new shot. It won't even make it any easier for newbs and such.
                          12.) Didn't see one. Not sure if there is one
                          13.) Seriously, four feet back from the basket location now and to the left stacked against a bunch of pecker pole trees. Same shot, incredibly disappointed. I hope that the tree's get cleared out a little, might make for some skip by's when people try to skip ace the position.
                          14-17) Didn't see any but I'm sure that I was just not looking well enough.
                          18.) Now currently where the old practice basket was. Could be a great hole if it wasn't for the fact you are bombing pretty much onto the trail where people are walking up from 10. So definite safety issue. Needs trimmed around the hole for sure it it's going to be there for a long time.

                          So I hope that this get's my point across, it's not that I don't love all the effort that people have taken in Downriver recently. Hell, I brought two garbage bags for my round and I didn't even fill a quarter of one. So that is awesome. It just seems that there were a lot of decisions made for alternates that don't really merit putting them in those locations. I am intrigued to see this longer basket position for 4 though.
                          "Honest work is for the downtrodden and the Polish"
                          Cleveland Brown

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Stuart does make a lot of very valid points there and I don't think he's being rude about it either, just making statements. Some of the alternates don't seem to necessarily change the way you play a given hole and that is a fair point. I can also see some of the safety issues that he brings up, especially on 18.

                            As for hole 13 - the little deuce or die dumper - it did have an alt that I think he mentioned right up next to the trees that if the basket was there would make for the worst putting green ever if no trees were cleared out. I do remember making a comment to my buddy about that one as we played past it.

                            I have to guess that there is still more work being planned out there that neither Stuart nor myself know about. I still think it's cool to see all that has been done and for the most part think the changes are for the better.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ScottW View Post
                              As for hole 13 - the little deuce or die dumper - it did have an alt that I think he mentioned right up next to the trees that if the basket was there would make for the worst putting green ever if no trees were cleared out. I do remember making a comment to my buddy about that one as we played past it.
                              that hole has been switched to the new alt basket location behind the tree, 10 feet back from the previous location(just as u mentioned above). there is no green really to approach to, and it surrounded by hanging branches and bushes. once the foliage gets cleared out it will be a good location, but as of this evening, its definitely thick foliage around those chains...(btw i bogeyed it. cant remember the last time i didnt birdie that hole)


                              also 14 was changed. same shot as before, but a tad bit deeper(10-20 feet) and 5-10 feet to the left of the original location behind the tree.

                              lastly 12 was changed as well. it now sits about 40 feet to the right of the previous basket, just to the right of the concrete tennis court slab. pretty much a forehanders dream now. the guy i was playing with was expecting a 40 foot putt to the basket until we realized the basket location had changed and he parked it within 5 feet for birdie unfortunately for me tho, i had a 70 foot approach shot instead of a 30 foot putt

                              forgot that 16 was moved as well. its now deeper and to the right. still pretty easy to park with a decent sidearm or thumber tho.
                              Last edited by Northsidedallin; April 2nd, 2013, 10:27 PM.

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