Harmony/Milwaukie: Parks Advisory Board meeting, 1/14/10 Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    It was an interesting meeting and an interesting insight into the workings of our local government. When did this all start, a couple of years ago? Actuallly it started about 20 years ago with a grand plan to fill in the marshy areas with dirt, built softball complexes, tennis courts, picnicing, ect ect. A couple of years ago Clackamas County Parks partnered with OIT, Clackamas Community College, and others to develope the Harmony/3 Creeks Vision. They've held meeting after meeting, worked diligently on developing a plan. Last night the lady in charge of all of this was presenting her plan to the Advisory Board to move forward and take it to the County Commisioners. Leave it "as is", make strictly a nature area, include other activeties such as but not limited to disc golf. Now, after all the planning and preperation, and when it's time to "move forward", the board decides that the best thing to do is to advise the County Commisioners that a Environmental Impact study needs to be done. Really? Nobody thought of this sooner?

    I think at the first mention of disc golf most of the Board had no idea of what it was and those that did for sure didn't want it at this park. By the end of the meeting and after Adam addressed the Board, I believe we now have several Board members that are on our side. Guess we'll see though!

    Bob

    Comment


    • #17
      Adam, thanks so much for all your efforts and persistance! I know you had about a 1,000 things better to do but I, and I'm sure many others, truly appreciate it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by "Over the Hill" Bob View Post
        It was an interesting meeting and an interesting insight into the workings of our local government. When did this all start, a couple of years ago? Actuallly it started about 20 years ago with a grand plan to fill in the marshy areas with dirt, built softball complexes, tennis courts, picnicing, ect ect. A couple of years ago Clackamas County Parks partnered with OIT, Clackamas Community College, and others to develope the Harmony/3 Creeks Vision. They've held meeting after meeting, worked diligently on developing a plan. Last night the lady in charge of all of this was presenting her plan to the Advisory Board to move forward and take it to the County Commisioners. Leave it "as is", make strictly a nature area, include other activeties such as but not limited to disc golf. Now, after all the planning and preperation, and when it's time to "move forward", the board decides that the best thing to do is to advise the County Commisioners that a Environmental Impact study needs to be done. Really? Nobody thought of this sooner?

        I think at the first mention of disc golf most of the Board had no idea of what it was and those that did for sure didn't want it at this park. By the end of the meeting and after Adam addressed the Board, I believe we now have several Board members that are on our side. Guess we'll see though!

        Bob
        My Wife and I were also a little like "what what what" by the 20 year aspect of the overall meeting and with NO E.I. study here in Oregon....

        but after Adam spoke it seemed like there was a more positive aspect than a neg. one from the board towards the disc course going in.

        So again many props and thanks should be going to Adam for getting and keeping this disc rolling forward.


        and who was the guy in the khaki shorts at the end of the meeting......


        also big shout out to my son who came with us and displayed some of the best manners i could have seen or asked from him.
        "In Discatarianism We Trust"

        :cheers:

        :cool:sigpic

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NWDiscer View Post
          My Wife and I were also a little like "what what what" by the 20 year aspect of the overall meeting and with NO E.I. study here in Oregon....

          but after Adam spoke it seemed like there was a more positive aspect than a neg. one from the board towards the disc course going in.

          So again many props and thanks should be going to Adam for getting and keeping this disc rolling forward.


          and who was the guy in the khaki shorts at the end of the meeting......


          also big shout out to my son who came with us and displayed some of the best manners i could have seen or asked from him.
          Yeah, the guy in the shorts was a hoot. I didn't catch the group he was representing but when he told the Board they had to show his group respect and contact THEM before they could do anything, I about fell out of my chair.

          Scott, I did notice how quiet and polite your son was last night. Tell him I'm proud of him and thank him for me.

          Bob

          Comment


          • #20
            The khaki shorts guy was from a Community Planning Organization (a committee of neighbors or neighborhood associations) in Milwaukie. At first I thought he had a good point when he pointed out to the DAB that someone had, indeed, made a survey of the natural resources that would be impacted by the Sunnybrook Road extension... but then I was baffled by his insistence that the master plan had never had a chance to be vetted by neighborhood groups. The last public meeting, in April, featured large poster-sized copies of the Near-Term and Far-Term concept plans, and invited the public to comment.


            I honestly don't know whether we changed any minds on the council from nays to yeas, but at the very least we made them a little better informed about the issues at hand.

            I also don't know whether they're talking about doing a full-on Environmental Impact Study -- I doubt it, as those can be very expensive. (Just ask the city of Chico, CA.) I think it's more about surveying the land in person and talking more with the people at the County -- someone named Tanya was mentioned -- about the studies they've already done.
            Oregon disc golf map

            Comment


            • #21
              By the way, I found out that the DAB members are not elected, they're volunteers.... BOB??
              In a word, OTHB's wife says NO! He needs a paying gig first.

              Comment


              • #22
                Makin' it happen . . .

                Well done lads (and Scott's Boy)

                Here is my input and thoughts/suggestions if anyone is interested . . . maybe attend the next meeting/gathering with (or make available now to all parties present at the recent meeting) a stack of copies of a disc golf course(s) installation proposal, including possible course layouts and parties responsible, along with a long-term time line, at least five years if possible. This "time line" style proposal should certainly include personal opinions w/ explanations supported by fact and personally researched environmental effects and outlooks . . .

                If it were I, then I'd prefer that I could personally present any said proposal in a meeting/group format, but preferably fact-practiced beforehand to address a small group and/or face-to-face individualistic style. I'd suggest contacting the organizers of the aforementioned "Park Advisory Board" to see if they would be kind enough to schedule in an "official" timeslot, wherein Adam Schneider of (stumptown?, PDGA?, DiscGolfOregon join free ), along with several other dg supporters (players or not) would be given the floor to present the yet-to-be-created-magnificent-genius-wonderful disc golf course proposal.

                It would be very easy for we the NW disc golfers to compile several opinions and quotes from non disc golf oriented agencies, such as cities, counties, states, and private property owners, not to mention local citizens enjoying parks that were previously to scary or risky to enjoy before we the disc golfers chased out the riff-raff . . . no prob

                planning, work, effort, planning, wor . . . speedbump . . . k, effort, planning, work, eff . . . speedbump . . . ort, planning, planning, planning, and planning

                Show up WAY more prepared, hand-outs and all, than any other represented group . . . easy way to portray that we the disc golfers mean business.

                -Derek

                www.DiscGolfOregon.com
                Last edited by DiscGolfOregon3; January 19th, 2010, 05:05 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I've been sending such materials (PDGA documents, news articles from around the country) to the Planning folks all along; that's how we got on the Master Plan to begin with. Michelle has a thick folder of stuff I've sent her. But this was the first meeting where we actually got a chance to say anything at all... disc golf has simply not been an issue. Now it is, and it'll be up to the DAB to decide what the next step is.

                  I think coming up with a layout would be extremely premature, because they're going to have more restrictions than you could ever imagine (I suspect the "Tsunami Crew" will try to fill the map with so many red X's that they basically choke us out entirely), and we don't even know which land we'd be allowed to use.

                  (And Stumptown? Ha. They've been AWOL in this entire process.)
                  Oregon disc golf map

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Adam Schneider View Post

                    (And Stumptown? Ha. They've been AWOL in this entire process.)
                    Adam, are you a current member of Stumptown? Have you ever attended a club meeting or contacted club leadership? Do you know what projects Stumptown is currently working on? Do you know how projects are proposed and supported within the organization? I would ask that you stop disparaging the club until you have answers to all the above questions. In my opinion, your continued remarks on this are making you and the club ‘look bad’. You can make contact with the club here.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      No, I'm not a member of Stumptown, and don't plan to become one. But here's what I know: Stumptown is, or should be, aware of this project. Their "leadership" all read this forum. So you'd think they'd be all over it, based on their stated mission to "support and promote the growth of disc golf through the installation of new courses and continued improvements at existing courses."

                      Yet I've seen no representation at these meetings from Stumptown aside from Bob Cabal, who as a resident of Milwaukie would've come no matter what -- and who is no longer involved with Stumptown. (If he has more to say about why not, I'll let him speak up.)

                      This is not my personal project; the Three Creeks area is a community park in the middle of a huge territory that currently contains no disc golf courses. If Stumptown doesn't want to get involved because I haven't gone to them personally and made an appeal... well, hell, why should I have to? The very possibility of a new course in the urban core isn't enough to get them involved? Should the #1 item in the charter perhaps be amended to also read "but only courses that were initiated by Stumptown members, or where the club can host tournaments"? (Is that what's going on? Is 9 holes beneath them?)

                      When all of this started, over two years ago, I thought that the recent formation of a local club would be a real benefit to the planning/advocacy process. I had high hopes for Stumptown's involvement, and had a positive attitude about it. But the apparent apathy I've seen has soured me on it.
                      Oregon disc golf map

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        In other news, I got an e-mail today from Michelle Healy, and she said that "the next step would be to present the information to the Board of County Commissioners (BCC)." I'm not sure what happened to "studying the site in more detail," which the DAB seemed to want; I'll get more information from her. And I'll find out whether she thinks we -- the disc golf community -- should make a presentation, or if she wants to collaborate with us on compiling relevant information that she would present.
                        Oregon disc golf map

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Adam Schneider View Post
                          No, I'm not a member of Stumptown, and don't plan to become one. But here's what I know: Stumptown is, or should be, aware of this project. Their "leadership" all read this forum. So you'd think they'd be all over it, based on their stated mission to "support and promote the growth of disc golf through the installation of new courses and continued improvements at existing courses."

                          Yet I've seen no representation at these meetings from Stumptown aside from Bob Cabal, who as a resident of Milwaukie would've come no matter what -- and who is no longer involved with Stumptown. (If he has more to say about why not, I'll let him speak up.)

                          This is not my personal project; the Three Creeks area is a community park in the middle of a huge territory that currently contains no disc golf courses. If Stumptown doesn't want to get involved because I haven't gone to them personally and made an appeal... well, hell, why should I have to? The very possibility of a new course in the urban core isn't enough to get them involved? Should the #1 item in the charter perhaps be amended to also read "but only courses that were initiated by Stumptown members, or where the club can host tournaments"? (Is that what's going on? Is 9 holes beneath them?)

                          When all of this started, over two years ago, I thought that the recent formation of a local club would be a real benefit to the planning/advocacy process. I had high hopes for Stumptown's involvement, and had a positive attitude about it. But the apparent apathy I've seen has soured me on it.
                          Wow. No response from the powers that be at Stumptown. I mean, didn't really seem like they had a leg to stand on... but I was looking forward to the attempt.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Any updates?

                            Any updates since the meeting? Went down and walked around the area today, can't wait. It's within walking distance for me so if there are any work parties or anything put it on here and I'll show up!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Hey Adam-
                              Has there been any more discussion on this course or any of the alternates that were mentioned above? (meldrum bar) It sure would be nice to fill in the gap on the DG map here in Clackamas. We are surrounded by great courses, but all of them are at least 30 minutes away.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                This is the last I heard, in September:

                                The county roads department is moving forward on some additional design work to give to the Board of County Commissioners. The BCC will then use this info to determine if the Road is going to be built or not. No movement on a decision regarding the park until the road is decided (I know...it is frustrating). Ultimately people couldn't separate the park from the "road". DTD is managing the road design process.

                                I would love to find out more about Meldrum Bar, which is apparently owned by the city of Gladstone, but my inquiries seem to wind up in a bureaucratic black hole.
                                Oregon disc golf map

                                Comment

                                Announcement Announcement Module
                                Collapse
                                No announcement yet.
                                Working...
                                X