Disc Golf 'going big': For(e) or against?

[sillybizz]

I personally don't understand why paying pros more money, getting disc golf on TV or in the Olympics (unless it's the mountain range) would make the game any better. I'd like to hear reasons why you are for or against growing the sport/getting DG 'big'.

[Bruce]

I would like to see touring pro's actually make a living, rather than struggling to get by. Some of us love the higher level of competition and the chances to better our own game. Everyone plays for different reasons obviously, and finds different aspects of the game that they connect with the most. Some people would love to make a living doing what they love, disc golf happens to be that venue for them, but growth needs to happen to make that dream a reality. I am totally for growth in the sport. That comes with more pay to play courses, etc etc. Totally want to see it happen. Will I ever see it? Who knows!

[putter anonymous]

I would like to see touring pro's actually make a living, rather than struggling to get by. Some of us love the higher level of competition and the chances to better our own game. Everyone plays for different reasons obviously, and finds different aspects of the game that they connect with the most. Some people would love to make a living doing what they love, disc golf happens to be that venue for them, but growth needs to happen to make that dream a reality. I am totally for growth in the sport. That comes with more pay to play courses, etc etc. Totally want to see it happen. Will I ever see it? Who knows!

I would love to see more pay to play courses, It would be great for the up keep and quality of courses! I understand why some people don't like the idea of the sport growing, some people don't like change. The more the sport grows the more money, better disc, better baskets, better courses.

[Mcw5378]

With all the talk of pay to play courses, which I understand the reasoning. Why don't people just donate a $1 for every round/day played at a course to the host club/caretakers to help maintain them? Why not get more involved with your local clubs/courses and take some pride/responsibility to care for the courses? I stead of just USING the course?


Why is everyone so willing to turn DG into a snobby sport? (Like ball golf)
Or is this just the way I see it?

[Bruce]

I can think of many advantages to Pay to Play Courses. I'll list some off the top of my head.

1) Ability to control group size.
2) Course Upkeep, a Pay to Play is more than likely is going to have some sort of Caretaker.
3) Removing bad influences from a course
4) Knowing where your money actually goes. (I'd be willing to be a very small % of money that the State Parks etc collect, go back into those courses. Volunteers raise money, Volunteers do the most of the work.)
5) Being able to bring in sponsors for various things that normally wouldn't happen, because the could have year round advertising, as opposed to one or two events.
6) On sight Pro Shop, Hot Food...etc etc.
7) Not having to deal with the powers that be and control the land, and all the crap that goes along with that. Aka less red tape. If they own the land they can make the decisions.

That was just a brief minute of thinking of advantages. I can think of very few disadvantages to Pay to Play.

[hawgman]

I also understand the concept of 'pay to play' but be careful of what you ask for or the expense involved will drive away a lot of the players and families that are now joining our sport. To keep it short for now, the cost of installing and then running and maintaining theses course in quality shape may drive per round or per day fees fairly high. Even with theses course we still need to come together and keep and maintain our free courses for all to enjoy.
Lots of sides to this discussion so bring them on.
Steve Moore
Salem Oregon

[quenyaistar]

Once you decide to go big it will never stop. You will have the we need more money excuse justifying all kinds of silliness.

If you want to play on golf courses so bad convince established course owners that they would make a lot more money if they included a disc basket at each hole along with a ball hole. I see no reason both cannot use a golf course at the same time.

Some folks say more money more disc technology. I just do not see it, what are you going to change on a disc to make it significantly better? Plenty of disc choices out their right now, for any shot you could conceive. Seriously we are talking micro upgrades at best and more likely just more useless its already been done better plastic.

I learned to kite surf last summer, same problem their way to many folks making the same thing.

[ScottyJ]

With this economy pay for play will drive a lot of people away. I am retired and will not be able to play if the local course started to collect a round or day use fee.

[putter anonymous]

With all the talk of pay to play courses, which I understand the reasoning. Why don't people just donate a $1 for every round/day played at a course to the host club/caretakers to help maintain them? Why not get more involved with your local clubs/courses and take some pride/responsibility to care for the courses? I stead of just USING the course?


Why is everyone so willing to turn DG into a snobby sport? (Like ball golf)
Or is this just the way I see it?

Have you seen at least half of all disc golfers? Asking them to donate a dollar would be like getting them to get a job or put down the crack pipe! just kidding. I live for my local course. Our group puts in tons of hours and our own money in up keep, and there is always some jack wagon trying to say we are pocketing the money, when really we are paying. My home course is whistlers bend, so what I would like to see is you drive out pay a $3 dollar day pass for our car. Also how would a small fee turn DG into a snobby sport?
:cheers:

[putter anonymous]

I can think of many advantages to Pay to Play Courses. I'll list some off the top of my head.

1) Ability to control group size.
2) Course Upkeep, a Pay to Play is more than likely is going to have some sort of Caretaker.
3) Removing bad influences from a course
4) Knowing where your money actually goes. (I'd be willing to be a very small % of money that the State Parks etc collect, go back into those courses. Volunteers raise money, Volunteers do the most of the work.)
5) Being able to bring in sponsors for various things that normally wouldn't happen, because the could have year round advertising, as opposed to one or two events.
6) On sight Pro Shop, Hot Food...etc etc.
7) Not having to deal with the powers that be and control the land, and all the crap that goes along with that. Aka less red tape. If they own the land they can make the decisions.

That was just a brief minute of thinking of advantages. I can think of very few disadvantages to Pay to Play.

Damn it sam where is the freaking like button?

[bstullis]

the cost of installing and then running and maintaining theses course in quality shape may drive per round or per day fees fairly high.

Check with four mounds in spokane, they have 3 killer 18 hole courses that can be combined in different ways to increase the challenge. I have seen mowed fairways and trimmed trees, excellent driving range (would like to see a pro shop there but may present problems with zoning/use laws). Check with them to find out what the maintance costs associated with a current private course is. The cost of an 18 hole disc golf course is ~$18,000.00 minus the land. The cost of one hole of ball golf is ~$150k-$1mil.
I don't think the maintanance costs are so astronomical to warrant $50-$250.00 per round (or even per day) fees. I wouldn't play every day for 20.00 but I would play up to $2.00 per round if It means not having to deal with broken glass on the tee pad or arround the basket (pack it in, pack it out frolfers!)

Grow the sport, make it accessable to everyone. Public courses for those who want to drink and leave their glass bottles hanging on trees, private for people who want to play great disc golf without the danger of glass lacerations.

[General Scales]

Check with four mounds in spokane, they have 3 killer 18 hole courses that can be combined in different ways to increase the challenge. I have seen mowed fairways and trimmed trees, excellent driving range (would like to see a pro shop there but may present problems with zoning/use laws). Check with them to find out what the maintance costs associated with a current private course is. The cost of an 18 hole disc golf course is ~$18,000.00 minus the land. The cost of one hole of ball golf is ~$150k-$1mil.
I don't think the maintanance costs are so astronomical to warrant $50-$250.00 per round (or even per day) fees. I wouldn't play every day for 20.00 but I would play up to $2.00 per round if It means not having to deal with broken glass on the tee pad or arround the basket (pack it in, pack it out frolfers!)

Grow the sport, make it accessable to everyone. Public courses for those who want to drink and leave their glass bottles hanging on trees, private for people who want to play great disc golf without the danger of glass lacerations.

Not to mention that when you go out to Four Mounds, you will never have to deal with a group of beer carrying, 1 disc chucking people that could care less about course treatment or etiquette. Pay to play disc golf is great as it really separates the people that want to play disc golf from the people that want to throw frisbee's.

[LJ Jubner]

Expecting DG to burst onto the scene is highly unlikely. Pro's, Purses and Promo's are just window dressing or (to dust off an old chestnut) "Top loading"

Our best chance to grow the sport is still a grass roots effort.

The future of the sport is in our schools. We need to get it into the curriculum.
We should be replacing a tether ball pole by installing a basket.
Lost and found held 90 days then donated to a local school.


We will now we have arrived when some 5th graders dad sees his kid off the couch and outside practicing putting at a tree.

Golf (Ball or Disc) are games for a lifetime no matter how well or poorly you play neither of which can never be won they can only be played

Happy Holidays

[Scott]

Why do so many people assume that free play courses in public parks will go away if pay-to-play courses become more common?

[Mcw5378]

Have you seen at least half of all disc golfers? Asking them to donate a dollar would be like getting them to get a job or put down the crack pipe! just kidding. I live for my local course. Our group puts in tons of hours and our own money in up keep, and there is always some jack wagon trying to say we are pocketing the money, when really we are paying. My home course is whistlers bend, so what I would like to see is you drive out pay a $3 dollar day pass for our car. Also how would a small fee turn DG into a snobby sport?
:cheers:

If you are asking me to pay $3 a round. I do pay to play. I have a pass that gets me into State Parks to play courses like Milo. And I donate at places that ask, like Horning's. Also I have volunteered for many course work crews. So if you are asking me to step up I believe I have and I plan on continuing to do so.

I'm glad you are doing the same! Most players don't from what I see.

But I'm asking why that P2P courses are all the rage now. If the correct people are in place, (you sound like one), then the money goes into the course. Which it should. So who cares what the vocal minority says. Keep up the good, honest, work! Whistlers is a great course from what I've read and someday I'll make it there.

P2P reminds me of a ball golf course/counrty club and to me comes across snobby. Just my $.02

[Mcw5378]

And to continue...

I agree with a lot of what the previous posts have to say about the benefits of improving the game,courses, and elimating the bad.

[SPIDER-DAN]

I 'fore' one would love to see disc golf on tv with camera shots like they do in ball golf. My boys and i watch golf all the time and then they put some crappy dog show on and im thinking really!!?

I agree with the previous comment..........i dont think public park courses will go away if pay to play courses are established. Big tournaments that would be broadcast would of course be on the better courses that are kept up and manicured.

[Scotty B]

If the pros are to receive bigger purses then I think that the disc companies need to combine efforts to all be sponsors at the NT events. As for pay to play we have several courses at this time that are pay to play and there is nothing wrong with having free and pay courses it gives people a choice. I know that i wouldn't be able to pay to play all the time so i would still be playing the free courses and helping keep them clean of debris this is how it pretty much works already. We at the lower levels shouldn't be responsible for the pros making more money on payouts we as a community need to show businesses we are a good investment for sponsorship.

[mine all mine]

This whole thread just pisses me off...Why oh why would you ever not want disc golf to be big? Discs will get better, more courses will be built, sponsors will come forward, there will be trash cans everywhere (for those players who feel that a tee sign is a good leaning spot for their empty Rainier can) and not to mention we might not be considered "that game that involves tossing that thing at that thing"!

[putter anonymous]

This whole thread just pisses me off...Why oh why would you ever not want disc golf to be big? Discs will get better, more courses will be built, sponsors will come forward, there will be trash cans everywhere (for those players who feel that a tee sign is a good leaning spot for their empty Rainier can) and not to mention we might not be considered "that game that involves tossing that thing at that thing"!

Man your the biggest jack wagon there is!!!:cheers: I heard you got some pretty sick things to throw at the things this weekend. What a firtata!

[REDFIVE]

Make it bigger. I have never heard any legit reasons why keeping the sport small would be better for anyone. Give me pay to play, give me large corporate sponsors, give me tv coverage, I will even take a nice chunk of change for last place cash. To make a living or some meaningful extra income as a mediocre pro disc golfer would be awesome!

[Jeff Hemmerling]

There are already too many players clogging the courses.
That's my simple reason for not wanting disc golf to grow.

[Scott]

There are already too many players clogging the courses.
That's my simple reason for not wanting disc golf to grow.

But how many new courses have we seen in the last 7-8 years? Would we have as many courses as we do today without the growth?

I for one am excited to see the growth of the sports and all the new courses, discs, and players that it brings. If that means I need to wait my turn now and again so be it.

[DanZ]

IMHO, disc golf will never be a sport where the top professional players earn a substantial living, like tennis, bowling, soccer, cycling, etc. Many players on the Portland Timbers get paid ~50k. Most athletes that compete in the Olympics don't get paid at all. For anyone who thinks disc golf is a career...well, I hope they have a backup plan. Disc golf is best when played for fun.

I think the slow growth to the sport is a good thing, more courses, discs manufacturers, players and larger tournament purse. Fast growth to the sport would likely cause environmental issues, litter and crowded parks and frustrated players which would be detrimental to the image of disc golf.

I found an an interesting article on Bleacher_Report

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1413565-the-weirdest-sports-on-earth

I think that disc golf falls some where between ice golfing and cornhole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVvzVzv094A

The sports that are going to get more media coverage are fast paced sports where people get hurt, just look at WipeOut and sports RedBull sponsors, like Parkour.

[putter anonymous]

IMHO, disc golf will never be a sport where the top professional players earn a substantial living, like tennis, bowling, soccer, cycling, etc. Many players on the Portland Timbers get paid ~50k. Most athletes that compete in the Olympics don't get paid at all. For anyone who thinks disc golf is a career...well, I hope they have a backup plan. Disc golf is best when played for fun.

I think the slow growth to the sport is a good thing, more courses, discs manufacturers, players and larger tournament purse. Fast growth to the sport would likely cause environmental issues, litter and crowded parks and frustrated players which would be detrimental to the image of disc golf.

I found an an interesting article on Bleacher_Report

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1413565-the-weirdest-sports-on-earth (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1413565-the-weirdest-sports-on-earth/)

I think that disc golf falls some where between ice golfing and cornhole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVvzVzv094A

The sports that are going to get more media coverage are fast paced sports where people,get hurt, just look at WipeOut and sports RedBull sponsors, like Parkour.

Really? Fast growth to the sport would likely cause environmental issues, litter and crowded parks and frustrated players which would be detrimental to the image of disc golf. these are the biggest problems with disc golf now!:

[DanZ]

Really? Fast growth to the sport would likely cause environmental issues, litter and crowded parks and frustrated players which would be detrimental to the image of disc golf. these are the biggest problems with disc golf now!:

Then maybe disc golf is growing too fast. Maybe the expansion of courses cannot keep up with the increasing popularity of the sport. Therefor, if courses, overcrowded city courses, charged $2 then it would decrease the number of players and increase the resources available to handle these issues.

[mine all mine]

Man your the biggest jack wagon there is!!!:cheers: I heard you got some pretty sick things to throw at the things this weekend. What a firtata!

Considering one of those things used to be one of your things makes it that much more enjoyable:nahnah:

[putter anonymous]

Considering one of those things used to be one of your things makes it that much more enjoyable:nahnah:

Ur still a jack wagon!!! :chug:

[putter anonymous]

Then maybe disc golf is growing too fast. Maybe the expansion of courses cannot keep up with the increasing popularity of the sport. Therefor, if courses, overcrowded city courses, charged $2 then it would decrease the number of players and increase the resources available to handle these issues.

this is what I'm saying, but it is not growing to fast. People need to get away from the idea that it is a free game with frisbees and trees, It cost money!!!

[bstullis]

It cost money!!!

only if you don't take discs that are named and numbered and don't give them back (sorry wrong thread)

. . . it doen't cost alot, but if you would rather buy beer than buy a disc and pay to play access to the park, it leaves more for me.

pay to play won't keep all the drunks and pot heads out (non sanctioned tourneys don't limit the field to non-smokers/drinkers) but it would limit the field to those who really want to play with respect for other players. non sanctioned tourneys limit the size of groups, even if some players are barely able to stand at the end of the tourney.

Bigger exposure means more people that don't need to get high or inebriated to enjoy the great out doors rattling the chains. save the drinking for after the round victory/winner/looser/bets/etc.

p.s.: I do want to thank the person that called me and put my star wraith on his front porch. I lost the number and gave it up to the DG karma, hoping because I was neglegent, they were enjoying a great disc. . . So, thank you disk return DG karma awesome people everywhere.

[WestsoundBT]

Growth is important as the alternative is death.

Even staying still is going backward. If you're growing, you are alive.

I'll put in an argument on the most basic of levels - land. There are a ton of reasons why consistent growth provides benefits, but courses is one thing we hold in common.

For most all of us may realize - available land is premium. Disc golf may sometimes get the "scraps" of the most otherwise conventionally unusable land, and sometimes nice land too, but its still afforded to us as long as we provide a solution to some need that is seen. (for most areas, that may be parks departments seeing value in having the offering of DG as part of their facilities lists)

Most of us realize where we are as a sport in that value pecking order - way lower than we'd like. There will come a time where even the most revered courses will face a challenge - maybe a land swap between agencies - maybe a "need" for a new school,aquatic center,sports fields, jail, water treatment plant, whatever. These things happen.

We need to be in a place always where we are growing and alive simply to justify our existence when these challenges occur. And that's not even trying to gain anything yet.

This is but one part of the argument why staying still or "Us Four and No More" can be so self destructive without realizing it.

Fortunately I'm encouraged by the overall pattern of slow, steady, sustainable growth that exists now. Local conditions may vary, but the overall growth curve seems in place. I'm in favor of a regular and periodic "bump" or two in the curve, but I'm also liking sustainable growth better than flash in the pan growth.

(yet I also know that innovative thought and attempts at rapid growth are how the slow steady growth occurs - aim high!)

Locally - I'd like for disc golf to get better at finding ways to account for our own statistical growth and justify our existence much better than we do now. It's hard to do tracking, account, and report for say... RPW (rounds per week, or UPW (users per week) on our courses. In the NW, our sporting takes place in the woods where no one sees us.
i.e. If the parks dept doesn't see us or hear from us in a positive growing way - we might not even exist

[CMC206]

I like all the drunks and pot heads.

[rastafarice]

The only reason to play is to have fun... If that means drinking and smokin nah herb or not.... And the only appeal to this game to me is that it is not gay like ball golf with stuck up racist type people so let's not worry smokers and drinkers!!

[rastafarice]

Jah* herb

[Matt B.]

The only reason to play is to have fun... If that means drinking and smokin nah herb or not.... And the only appeal to this game to me is that it is not gay like ball golf with stuck up racist type people so let's not worry smokers and drinkers!!

Gosh, we're all so proud. Let's all drink and smoke and not be "gay" like the racist ball golfers.

That about sum it up there champ?

[emmarose]

The only reason to play is to have fun... If that means drinking and smokin nah herb or not.... And the only appeal to this game to me is that it is not gay like ball golf with stuck up racist type people so let's not worry smokers and drinkers!!

racist = bad but homophobe = good? who are you people? who says things like that?


... not sure really what to say to this but had to say something. also, just for the record, i am rolling my eyes, shaking my head and making those obnoxiousl little derisive snorting noises.






and for the record, i am all for growing the sport because i crave the fame and glory. duh.

[olydiscgolf]

The only reason to play is to have fun... If that means drinking and smokin nah herb or not.... And the only appeal to this game to me is that it is not gay like ball golf with stuck up racist type people so let's not worry smokers and drinkers!!

There may not be "stuck up racist type people" on the course, but this forum is full of snobs.... Watch what you say!

[Matt B.]

In general I've found this forum to be full of basically friendly and helpful people, not snobs.

But if someone agrees that 'the only appeal to this game is that it is not gay', they have a much different perspective on disc golf and life in general. I can't think of an opinion more different than my own. If that makes me a snob, I'm cool with that.

[emmarose]

In general I've found this forum to be full of basically friendly and helpful people, not snobs.

But if someone agrees that 'the only appeal to this game is that it is not gay', they have a much different perspective on disc golf and life in general. I can't think of an opinion more different than my own. If that makes me a snob, I'm cool with that.

i, too, am embracing my snobbery... and have a feeling that gilby was somehow being facetious in that remark about snobs, anyway.

[olydiscgolf]

i, too, am embracing my snobbery... and have a feeling that gilby was somehow being facetious in that remark about snobs, anyway.

Yeah, snobs was probably not the word I should have used there.

[Yoduh]

I too am a fan of pay to play. San Diego runs a very successful pay to play course where it's $2 a day to play golf. If that's to much for a family to afford to play than I guess they need to try and do something that's more affordable. Snobby is nothing disc golf will ever become. Not even close. What $2 provides is someone to collect trash, upkeep the course and to continue improvements. The opposite is it's free, it get's overused and under kept and volunteers get overused and burnt out. The land looks rough and couses get pulled cause they aren't kept up properly. Folf at any park will always be free but paying money to throw at chains is probably where the game is going whether some want to kick and scream or not.. We're eating our vegetables and growing up disc golf. Gotta act like big boys and girls and chip in to keep it nice for our kids. If this keeps some people away then those people don't have the love to find a way. People will if they really want to will find a way. Pick Disc over beer or cigarettes or whatever it takes.. Or don't play. I bet very few would quit. Maybe the people who are looking for a place to get wasted and litter lol

[Yoduh]

Not growing is not death. That's some silly unsustainable growth formula that our economy tries to follow which is one of the reason our economy is spinning out of control. Our sport needs to develop symbiotic relationships with the parks they live in otherwise our sport will fail.

[hawgman]

I think that 'Pay to Play' can be misleading by what the actual pay cost is or becomes in future. I have no problem with 2-3 dollars if course is going to be kept up by someone or parks group or whoever. If the cost is 3+ it better be really well kept, proper signage and trails and such. If it goes above 10 it better be spotless, all fairways groomed, excellent signage and trail flow and such.
I feel there will always need to be grass roots level involvement to keep the sport available for all to start out with. Then if you want to move up to fully kept courses so be it.
My experiences are from what is happening in Salem especially but Oregon in general and these opinions are my own and may not be agreed with, so be it.
Keep the sport growing ( I started over 30 years ago) but keep it available for the families starting out to the 'Pro' who wants to make the money at it. Just be careful what you ask for and how it grows. Educating the masses and explaining why we need help to keep courses up can go a long way.
Communication and Respect can be wonderful things in life.
Steve 'Hawgman' Moore

[sillybizz]

The only reason to play is to have fun... If that means drinking and smokin nah herb or not.... And the only appeal to this game to me is that it is not gay like ball golf with stuck up racist type people so let's not worry smokers and drinkers!!

Actually Disc Golf is quite Gay. Many Gay people play the sport (including myself) and even one Gay professional is sponsored by Discraft. Stuck up? Racist? Those are stereotypes that aren't always the case. All disc golfers aren't unemployed, pot smoking, hippie, college kids, some of us don't even go to college. ;)

[Bruce]

I have zero issue going and dropping 20+ dollars on a round or two at Skyline, and would do it way more often if it wasn't an hour and half away. We need MORE courses like that.