Not paying to park at Blue Lake = Douchebag

[columbia gorge discgolf]

What a great new course we have. I for one did absolutely nothing to make this happen. No work, no donations, not one damn thing. The least I can do is pay to park. I understand that it is "legal" to park on the road, but by doing so you are not contributing. Metro, Stumptown and a whole army of volunteers paid a ton of dues to build this course. I feel it is every disc golfers responsibility to show this to be a sustainable project. By paying to park or purchasing an annual parking pass($40) we are showing Metro something. We show that they made a good decision by installing a disc golf course. If we can show Metro that their investment in our community has even a small return maybe they will open up even more land for future courses. This is my opinion and I'm sure quite a few people will disagree. If you're not at least paying to park at Blue Lake, you are a douchebag.

P.S. The people who put in the bulk of the work all have annual parking passes. I would love to hear what your excuse is.

[Matt B.]

What a great new course we have. I for one did absolutely nothing to make this happen. No work, no donations, not one damn thing. The least I can do is pay to park. I understand that it is "legal" to park on the road, but by doing so you are not contributing. Metro, Stumptown and a whole army of volunteers paid a ton of dues to build this course. I feel it is every disc golfers responsibility to show this to be a sustainable project. By paying to park or purchasing an annual parking pass($40) we are showing Metro something. We show that they made a good decision by installing a disc golf course. If we can show Metro that their investment in our community has even a small return maybe they will open up even more land for future courses. This is my opinion and I'm sure quite a few people will disagree. If you're not at least paying to park at Blue Lake, you are a douchebag.

P.S. The people who put in the bulk of the work all have annual parking passes. I would love to hear what your excuse is.

Second.

[jdinteg]

I fully agree that cheating by parking on the street is a slimy move. If someone is too pinched for funds to pay for parking; then they should take the bus, ride a bike, walk, or carpool. But parking on the street and starting in the middle of the course makes DGr's look bad.

Btw, I called Metro to check on when the 2013 annual pass will be released. This Tuesday December 4th we can purchase the 2013 parking pass for Blue Lake and any other Metro parks that share reciprocity, I do not know which additional parks that would be. I plan on asking Metro to note I am only buying the pass due to the new Blue Lake course. If we all do that it would help them understand how much we all appreciate the course.

[Bruce]

I know it includes Chinook Landing, at least that's if I remember correctly.

[HerbalTee]

It is so weird. Pier and Blue Lake are the same distance from SE Portland...If you want to play for free it makes sense to go to Pier. Both a great courses and I know if I'm short for funds, I'll head to Pier or look in the cushions of the couch to pay to park at Blue Lake.

[sillybizz]

So if you bike to work because parking is too expensive are you being a "douche bag" too?

So someone is saving a couple of bucks by walking a little farther like when you go to a sports event and park farther away to save money? Sounds reasonable but I guess that would be taking away from all of the hard work of the people who built the streets and and signs rights?

[NWDiscer]

So if you bike to work because parking is too expensive are you being a "douche bag" too?

So someone is saving a couple of bucks by walking a little farther like when you go to a sports event and park farther away to save money? Sounds reasonable but I guess that would be taking away from all of the hard work of the people who built the streets and and signs rights?


the course is part of the park......what your saying is it is alright to sneak in to the newest disc course in the Portland area :confused: :rolleyes2: :blush:

or maybe park along the road above Milo or Dabney and sneak in to play a round :bricks:


since we want the Metro parks around here to help us, by letting us put more courses in the ground why is it so hard to cough up a couple bucks or buy a pass for the year...:slapface: or just play any of the FREE 1's we have around also.....:trophy::cheerleader: as we are some of the most spoiled discers in the USA :rockon: :wink2:

[Adam Schneider]

the course is part of the park......what your saying is it is alright to sneak in to the newest disc course in the Portland area
It's not "sneaking" in. The fee is to park a vehicle at the park, not ENTER the park. If it were an entrance fee, you'd pay per person — even if you biked or walked in.

[NWDiscer]

It's not "sneaking" in. The fee is to park a vehicle at the park, not ENTER the park. If it were an entrance fee, you'd pay per person — even if you biked or walked in.


Thanks for that info now i feel like a total shit for what i said.....naw i dont think so.

if you park on the street around the park i hope you get towed i doubt it will happen.

Thanks again Adam

and if your biking/busing/walking to the park then more power to you :trophy: :cheers:

[columbia gorge discgolf]

Bike and walk to Blue Lake all you want to. I'm all for that type of non intrusive transportation. I don't think it's cool to park all along the neighborhood when parking is offered for a small fee and benefits the course. I feel we as golfers need to cultivate a positive image with the neighbors. Parking in front of their houses and dipping into the park really is counter productive. It's a shame that some people have a problem supporting their own recreation.

[Scotty B]

Since I already have a pass just curious how much of the purchase of a pass goes back into course upkeep and improvement? I would also like to say to everyone please clean up after yourself I have carried out one plastic grocery sack of trash after each round that I have played mostly beer cans/bottles. I think this would be a quick way for metro to shut the course down if you are going to drink pack out your trash please.

[Yoduh]

Paying to play is the wave of the future. The more popular and successful it is the sooner another course gets put in!:cop:

[jdinteg]

Paying to play is the wave of the future. The more popular and successful it is the sooner another course gets put in!:cop:

If paying to park and play is the trade I have to make to get courses like Blue Lake in, then I will happily pay $5 a day to park my car. It's still cheaper then the $40-60 I would pay to play an 18-hole round at an OK municipal ball golf course, or the $80-100 for a high caliber ball golf course, then some require a caddie +$50, and a cart +$20. Turn left early as your heading up to Hornings some day and look at the prices at Pumpkin Ridge, then let me know if $3-$5 is unfair?

[General Scales]

I honestly have no problem paying to play disc golf so long as the course calls for it. I buy a yearly pass for Farragut (even though I don't have a car) because the courses are well worth the money spent. The best part about pay to play is it usually keeps the 18 pack 1 disc huckers away from the course meaning a more enjoyable day of golf for me!

[Scott]

Paying $5 to park isn't that big of a deal for me and if I lived closer I wouldn't think twice about purchasing an annual pass. Judging by the previous comments, it seems that most here feel the same way.

But that doesn't mean that everyone has to feel the same way we do. Calling someone a douchebag for doing something that is perfectly legal seems a little harsh.

[Lund]

Calling someone a douchebag for doing something that is perfectly legal seems a little harsh.

I suppose any slang word is up for interpretation but from my perspective choosing an option that is an obvious attempt to circumvent a rule's intention solely because it is legal is the essence of douchebaggery.

There has been at least 1 car parked on the road next to holes 6/7 every time I have played Blue. My first thought is that it will be the residents along that side of the park that sound the alarm and that will be looking for shady or illegal behaviors to bolster their complaints.

[columbia gorge discgolf]

You are correct Scott. It is harsh but that was the point. It's my opinion and I tend to lean that way. I also figured a jarring thread title would generate attention and debate. To be clear all I am saying is, if you drive a motorized vehicle to Blue Lake park, you should pay to park.

[spikehyzer]

$40 to feed one of my addictions for a year? sold!

Purchase a pass online, over the phone or in person at the Blue Lake or Oxbow Regional park offices. MasterCard and Visa are accepted. For more information, call 503-665-4995 option 0.

Prices
Regular passes are $40
Senior passes are $30
Low-income/disability passes are $10 (documentation required)
For information about disabled veterans passes call 503-665-4995.

[jdp11284]

I will be purchasing a 2013 pass the next time I come up from Albany. I agree 100% that we need to show financial support for our incredible disc golf scene, especially on courses managed by public entities. Blue Lake is truly a special place that will soon be (if it already isn't) a destination course. We should all support in ANY way we can. This will ensure the continued prosperity of the sport (and the development of exceptional courses) in the region.

No low putts.

[Mcw5378]

Since this course is to be used for The Worlds in 2014, it would be nice to for it to be there to use. Hopefully us disc'ers, the neighbors, and Metro will soon make a lasting relationship. I need to get up there and play it soon I guess.

[SMOKIN JOE]

Don't agree with not paying to park but can understand why someone might not. What gets me going is playing holes 1-7 just fine then getting backed up for an hour on hole 8 with 5 groups in front of you. Start at tee one will ya.

[Adam Schneider]

My thoughts on the subject, which I realize are very different from most NWDGN forum-goers (but perhaps not uncommon amongst the general public): I paid $5 to play Blue Lake Park once, just so I could see what all the fuss was about. I'm glad I went, but I probably won't be back much. I don't think a course with four 900'+ holes is much fun.

If I'm headed out that direction, I'll have a more enjoyable time if I drive five more minutes and go to Dabney or Rooster Rock, both of which I can get into using my Oregon State Parks pass — which is also valid at McIver, Stub Stewart, Champoeg, and a whole pile of other non-DG parks (e.g., Silver Falls, Ecola, Nehalem Bay).

Basically, for me, playing Blue Lake isn't worth the money. If I was in the neighborhood and there was a free parking option, I might take advantage of that, because the alternative is not going there at all.

[Chet Chainley]

What I though was a little effed up was the fact the season pass doesn't start when you buy it, unlike the state parks pass does. I have spent $40.00 on parking this year at Blue Lake and I will now be parking on the street when I go there to play. I will however, walk to hole 1 to begin.

[pdxdiscer]

Is everybody cool with me buying the yearly pass and parking on the street to start at hole 8?:biggrin2:

This debate is quite similar to $ parking pass to access public lands [NW Forest Pass], with similar issues:

A. If you pay, theoretically you have more say in the use of the resource. Is this true at Blue Lake?

B. Not everyone is in a position to pay everytime/anytime they want to access this outdoor resource,
or Does EVERY F'in thing in this society have to cost cash money, and F@#$ you if ya ain't got ? (the answer might be 'yes')

C. there will always be free riders on a resource that is not completely access restricted , like clean air
so maybe those who carpool in a Prius can park on street and those who drive alone in their SUV should pay to park?

D. how much more space on my windshield can I cover with these things?
Do u contribute?
from http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24271
Metro will receive an estimated $39 million in property tax in FY 2011-12
PLUS local, state and federal grants ($12.6 million)
PLUS Current revenue= 57% of Metro's resources
such as: solid waste disposal fees {Metro's largest $ activity}, also Zoo admission fees, Blue Lake fees, Arleen Snitz concert admission...
METRO also brings you the Urban Growth Boundry, probably the only thing slowing PDX's slide toward Seattle sprawl and Californication

[loki]

I worry about what the neighbors will think. When I played Blue lake for the first time I walked out onto the street for a cigarette after hole 9. Then I realized that this is a practice that will probably piss off the neighbors so even though I am a heavy smoker I have submitted to the fact that I just won't smoke when I play blue lake. I saw what it did to that short lived little course most recently removed in Gresham. Between the parking issues, the smoking and the drinking (mainly littering by the way of cans and bottles) a couple of neighbors had enough pictorial proof to have the course removed. Imagine how embarrassing that would be if they removed blue lake before 2014?

I'm not calling people douchebags for parking outside the park because it is not for me to judge those on a tighter budget than I, but......I would suggest that most people who can afford to drive out there to play can afford the $5 fee, but for those who cant they should probably get a ride with someone who can. If this practice becomes a big issue with the locals it could have some seriously negative affects to the longevity of blue lake as a disc golf destination.

There will always be the few who make disc golf look bad. Just as long as the majority can carry themselves with decorum, civility, discretion and respect we can continue to be given opportunities such as the ones realized at Blue Lake. But if enough people get rubbed the wrong way it can all go away very quickly.

[pdxdiscer]

[QUOTE=loki

Just as long as the majority can carry themselves with decorum, civility, discretion and respect we can continue to be given opportunities such as the ones realized at Blue Lake. [/QUOTE]

:trophy:

[Matt B.]

Unfortunately we seem to have a disproportionately high rate of "Rebel Without a Clue" syndrome in the disc golfer community. This situation seems like a pretty good example. It can also be described as "cutting off your nose to spite your face". People are going to stick it to the man, man! If that results in everybody losing out, oh well man, f*ck it.

It's nothing new, and not unique to Blue Lake. What's unique to Blue Lake is both just how much there is to lose, and the forethought and care the crew that installed the course put into identifying the potential problems and trying to put solutions into place from the get-go. For instance, the tee signs on the holes that play along the neighborhood road reminding us that we are guests in the neighborhood.

First time I played there I encountered a group at the tee of the last hole along that road drinking, smoking and in the company of their dog. No big surprise, but still a disappointment. I hope the Blue Lake staff and Metro are tracking an increase in parking fees and can relate it to this awesome disc golf course sooner rather than later. And maybe if road parking becomes really popular, the fee structure changes to pay-to-play instead of pay-to-park? That would be a shame, as I really like the thinking that encourages car-pooling and alternative transport.

Just because it's legal to park on that road doesn't make it a smart thing to do for people who want to see the course succeed. It's pretty sure to be the first thing the neighbors notice though, unless people have been parking there for other reasons prior to the course installation. And once some neighbor decides they don't like that, they will start to find other things they don't like.

[Matt B.]

My thoughts on the subject, which I realize are very different from most NWDGN forum-goers (but perhaps not uncommon amongst the general public): I paid $5 to play Blue Lake Park once, just so I could see what all the fuss was about. I'm glad I went, but I probably won't be back much. I don't think a course with four 900'+ holes is much fun.

If I'm headed out that direction, I'll have a more enjoyable time if I drive five more minutes and go to Dabney or Rooster Rock, both of which I can get into using my Oregon State Parks pass — which is also valid at McIver, Stub Stewart, Champoeg, and a whole pile of other non-DG parks (e.g., Silver Falls, Ecola, Nehalem Bay).

Basically, for me, playing Blue Lake isn't worth the money. If I was in the neighborhood and there was a free parking option, I might take advantage of that, because the alternative is not going there at all.

Adam, will we ever break you out of that "it's not fun if I don't have a chance at a 2" mold? What's a few extra throws on a nice walk in the park?

[Adam Schneider]

Adam, will we ever break you out of that "it's not fun if I don't have a chance at a 2" mold?
Nope. And I still have no desire to play in tournaments.

Part of it is about TIME: one of the things I like about disc golf is that it doesn't take all day to play a round. If I've got 90 minutes to play, I'd rather play 18 holes (or 27 if solo) than 9.

And like I said, I'm not alone. Casual players are underrepresented on internet forums.

[Flatroc]

It's nothing new, and not unique to Blue Lake.

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

[Matt B.]

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

I haven't been to Tom Pearce, what's the situation?

[Flatroc]

I haven't been to Tom Pearce, what's the situation?

People park outside the gate to avoid the park fee and walk into the course. Typically they start on hole #8.

[Wes Hansen]

Tp has a park fee?
When did that happen?

[emmarose]

What I though was a little effed up was the fact the season pass doesn't start when you buy it, unlike the state parks pass does. I have spent $40.00 on parking this year at Blue Lake and I will now be parking on the street when I go there to play. I will however, walk to hole 1 to begin.

i concur, hanley. i mean, chet (would hate to blow your secret identity).


i do pay when i go, but that's 'cause i have a really hard time breaking the rules... i now i have spent well over $40 and am hoping that someone gets me a permit for christmast (hint hint, dad).

[emmarose]

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

eclipses!!! i have lots... let me know if you need them.

[Adam Schneider]

Tp has a park fee?
When did that happen?
Both Lake Selmac and Tom Pearce require a Josephine County Parks day-use fee. A few years ago it was $2, but now it's $4. I wonder if the price increase led to significantly more people parking outside and walking in.

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.

[jevon]

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.
Because they never do move faster. They jump in front causing you to be delayed. You waited behind the groups on hole one, then as things are flowing nice you have to wait on hole 7, 8, or 9 because they didn't want to wait at hole one and jump in front of you.

[Flatroc]

Both Lake Selmac and Tom Pearce require a Josephine County Parks day-use fee. A few years ago it was $2, but now it's $4. I wonder if the price increase led to significantly more people parking outside and walking in.

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.

Joe County Parks require a "park permit" fee, not a "day-use" fee. This fee went up from $2 to $4 Jan. of last year as a result of budget cuts and certain parks being close to the chopping block. The 'outsider' problem escalated this summer and is indeed an issue with the park peeps. They are currently working with the city zoning/street peeps to see what can be done.
Adam, I think that taking cuts is rude and much worse than walking in for free and if you ever see Emma and I behind you with our Eclipser's you may want to let us know that you for sure started on hole one. :biggrin2:

[Adam Schneider]

Adam, I think that taking cuts is rude and much worse than walking in for free
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tournament players start in different spots all over the course? How is that different?

Because they never do move faster. They jump in front causing you to be delayed.
Really? They never move faster? So you're saying that when I'm playing by myself and I jump in on hole #4, the foursome with beer coolers and chairs on #2 is going to catch up to me?

[emmarose]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tournament players start in different spots all over the course? How is that different?



i'm gonna assume you're really asking this... so here goes: it is different because 1) you're playing a tournament. 2) everyone starts at the same time. 3) the groups consist of 4 or less... so you are not stuck behind a group of 5 or 6 or 8 or... 4) it's a tournament. people are aware of speed of play and are not drinking, gabbing (well, one would hope), answering their phones/texting or otherwise lollygagging.

it's just different, yo.

[Adam Schneider]

i'm gonna assume you're really asking this... so here goes: it is different because 1) you're playing a tournament. 2) everyone starts at the same time. 3) the groups consist of 4 or less... so you are not stuck behind a group of 5 or 6 or 8 or... 4) it's a tournament. people are aware of speed of play and are not drinking, gabbing (well, one would hope), answering their phones/texting or otherwise lollygagging.

it's just different, yo.
What if 18 groups of people showed up all at once to play at a course, in a non-tournament situation? Would it really make more sense for EVERYONE to wait for their turn at #1, while the rest of the course was sitting empty? Of course not, that'd be silly and a waste of a lot of people's time.

(And for the record, if I was playing with a group of 5 or 6 or 8, god forbid, I probably wouldn't jump into the middle of a course. But I don't like playing in groups of more than three.)

[emmarose]

What if 18 groups of people showed up all at once to play at a course, in a non-tournament situation? Would it really make more sense for EVERYONE to wait for their turn at #1, while the rest of the course was sitting empty? Of course not, that'd be silly and a waste of a lot of people's time.

(And for the record, if I was playing with a group of 5 or 6 or 8, god forbid, I probably wouldn't jump into the middle of a course. But I don't like playing in groups of more than three.)

no! it wouldn't make sense, mr. schneider! fine! you win! now stop being ridiculous and creating fantastical imaginary disc golfing scenarios that will never happen. sheesh.

:p

[Str8MaxW8]

What if 18 groups of people showed up all at once to play at a course, in a non-tournament situation? Would it really make more sense for EVERYONE to wait for their turn at #1, while the rest of the course was sitting empty? Of course not, that'd be silly and a waste of a lot of people's time.

(And for the record, if I was playing with a group of 5 or 6 or 8, god forbid, I probably wouldn't jump into the middle of a course. But I don't like playing in groups of more than three.)

That situation never happens unless it's DGOD affiliated! :drool:

[Flash]

Park along side the road and enjoy it, but when they put up signs or change the use of this road side parking don't bitch and moan when you need to continue driving into that park and pay your fees. If the parking situation creates an issue they will modify your behavior or it will cost you in a larger fee.

I can only speculate that this road side parking will be changing in the future and it won't be Metro who will be driving the change but the Interlachen community will be at the helm.

Keep an eye on the meeting minutes on this website
http://www.interlachen-hoa.org/?page_id=2

I always play through groups starting on Hole 8, Why should I wait on you when I have paid $5.00 to play you freeloaders!

[jevon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tournament players start in different spots all over the course? How is that different?


Really? They never move faster? So you're saying that when I'm playing by myself and I jump in on hole #4, the foursome with beer coolers and chairs on #2 is going to catch up to me?

First off, a tournament reserves the course so they can do whatever they want. No?

Secondly, you obviously aren't the type of person being talked about here. It's the people that cause you to wait. Paranoid much? Reading comprehension is a good thing.

[Matt B.]

Park along side the road and enjoy it, but when they put up signs or change the use of this road side parking don't bitch and moan when you need to continue driving into that park and pay your fees. If the parking situation creates an issue they will modify your behavior or it will cost you in a larger fee.

I can only speculate that this road side parking will be changing in the future and it won't be Metro who will be driving the change but the Interlachen community will be at the helm.

Keep an eye on the meeting minutes on this website
http://www.interlachen-hoa.org/?page_id=2

I always play through groups starting on Hole 8, Why should I wait on you when I have paid $5.00 to play you freeloaders!

Yes, it seems like a change in parking rules is the likely outcome and solution here.

[Flash]

I always play through groups starting on Hole 8, Why should I wait on you when I have paid $5.00 to play you freeloaders!


I feel that my post may incur the wrong response by users of the roadside parking so I wanted to include some additional clarification.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h139/flash_25296/SarcasmWarning.jpg

[sillybizz]

Pic fail.

[pdxdiscer]

Posted by Flash :
Park along side the road and enjoy it, but when they put up signs or change the use of this road side parking don't bitch and moan when you need to continue driving into that park and pay your fees. If the parking situation creates an issue they will modify your behavior or it will cost you in a larger fee.

I can only speculate that this road side parking will be changing in the future and it won't be Metro who will be driving the change but the Interlachen community will be at the helm.

Keep an eye on the meeting minutes on this website
http://www.interlachen-hoa.org/?page_id=2

I always play through groups starting on Hole 8, Why should I wait on you when I have paid $5.00 to play you freeloaders!
Yes, it seems like a change in parking rules is the likely outcome and solution here.

The solution to the problem of free parking? that's cutting off a nose to spite a face!

However, good call about keeping updated on the neighborhood website, true problems would be voiced there:
"Keep on alert for those persons planting "drano bombs", siphoning gas from vehicles, stealing canoes, creating potholes, stealing outgoing mail, then parking on the street while smoking like chimneys, trailing litter, taking 'cutsies' on the disc golf course, then playing too slow as they scream profanities at their dogs for not fighting aggressively enough to win the big money." If only we can get rid of those six guys that ruin it for the rest of us...
Just lighting the fuse for the famous "Blue Lake 4 th of July fireworks demonstrations"

[buzzvsroc]

nwdiscgolfbitching.com

[Flash]

The solution to the problem of free parking? that's cutting off a nose to spite a face!

However, good call about keeping updated on the neighborhood website, true problems would be voiced there:
"Keep on alert for those persons planting "drano bombs", siphoning gas from vehicles, stealing canoes, creating potholes, stealing outgoing mail, then parking on the street while smoking like chimneys, trailing litter, taking 'cutsies' on the disc golf course, then playing too slow as they scream profanities at their dogs for not fighting aggressively enough to win the big money." If only we can get rid of those six guys that ruin it for the rest of us...
Just lighting the fuse for the famous "Blue Lake 4 th of July fireworks demonstrations"

They are actually a very thorough and watchful community. If they are not happy with the disc golfers parking on the road it will be known soon enough. But like any other community they have other issues to deal with like theft, vandalism and general mayhem. The rest of the rules that are violated inside the park like, smoking, drinking and pets, well that is Metro's responsibility to enforce and they are going to need to accept that responsibility.

[Bullseye]

nwdiscgolfbitching.com

It might seem like bitching to you, but to those of us who have put in 100s of hours installing this course it really does mean a lot to us.

Metro invested a lot of money into this project and they're really not asking for very much in return. They're simply hoping to make that investment worthwhile. Honestly though, if this project does not pay off for Metro, or if it becomes more hassle than it is worth. What do you think the chances of getting more courses funded will be? I'd venture to say, slim to none.

In any case, seeing this course get yanked because of a few inconsiderate people trying to save a couple of bucks would be a great loss to disc golfers in Portland.

[spikehyzer]

It might seem like bitching to you, but to those of us who have put in 100s of hours installing this course it really does mean a lot to us.

Metro invested a lot of money into this project and they're really not asking for very much in return. They're simply hoping to make that investment worthwhile. Honestly though, if this project does not pay off for Metro, or if it becomes more hassle than it is worth. What do you think the chances of getting more courses funded will be? I'd venture to say, slim to none.

In any case, seeing this course get yanked because of a few inconsiderate people trying to save a couple of bucks would be a great loss to disc golfers in Portland.

Jeff- since you've worked with Metro--- what's the best way to buy the annual pass while letting Metro know that their awesome blue lake course is the one and only reason for the purchase?

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Matt B.
Yes, it seems like a change in parking rules is the likely outcome and solution here.


The solution to the problem of free parking? that's cutting off a nose to spite a face!



How so? It's not the solution to free parking, it's the solution to parking along the road period. The neighbors or the governing municipality would be the ones cutting off the nose, so to speak, by ending the roadside parking. And to them that would be improving the face. No?

If parking along that road right now is legal, which it seems it is, then yeah, disc golfers are probably going to park there, and there's nothing morally or legally or even ethically wrong about it.

If that leads to neighbor complaints to Metro and Fairview, increased scrutiny on disc golfer behavior, and general dissatisfaction among neighbors and Metro with the disc golf course, it seems to me that yes, disc golfers would be cutting off their nose to spite the face. Avoiding parking fees at the expense of the thing they are parking there for in the first place. And yes, the thing which might ultimately "solve" the problem for everyone except the people who don't want to pay to park at the course, is 'No Parking' signs.

Does parking there make people douchebags or jerks or evil? Eh, it's an opinion. Can we all agree it's not going to help the course in the long run, it's not going to make a positive impression on the neighbors or Metro, and it's not going to help get Metro onboard to do a similar project?

It's not surprising that some people just don't care if it doesn't help. Most people, and disc golfers are no exception, just don't care.

[Bullseye]

Jeff- since you've worked with Metro--- what's the best way to buy the annual pass while letting Metro know that their awesome blue lake course is the one and only reason for the purchase?

I walked in to the office (the brown house on the right just past the disc golf parking) and said I am here to buy a year pass for the disc golf course. I felt like that got the point across. :)

So far, Metro IS happy with how things are going, but they have definitely pointed out the few areas where we are having trouble. Mainly the problems were littering, boozing, smoking and that damned parking issue. Thankfully, Metro's proactive installation of additional trash cans has helped with the littering considerably.

[Flatroc]

If the city pulls the course only because of the parking issue, then they should pull something else out too. :whistler:
I'm curious to know, is it only dger's that evade the park fee?

[NWDiscer]

If the city pulls the course only because of the parking issue, then they should pull something else out too. :whistler:
I'm curious to know, is it only dger's that evade the park fee?


well i do not know for certain.

i think so though as the rest of the park is inside of a cabled fence from what i have seen.

i've only been a couple of times for work parties and we got to park for free and i played it 1 time and we had a pass in the rig we went in.


:cheers: i sure hope i get to come down and see you next year Yose :cheers:

[pdxdiscer]

How so? It's not the solution to free parking, it's the solution to parking along the road period. The neighbors or the governing municipality would be the ones cutting off the nose, so to speak, by ending the roadside parking. And to them that would be improving the face. No?

If parking along that road right now is legal, which it seems it is, then yeah, disc golfers are probably going to park there, and there's nothing morally or legally or even ethically wrong about it.

If that leads to neighbor complaints to Metro and Fairview, increased scrutiny on disc golfer behavior, and general dissatisfaction among neighbors and Metro with the disc golf course, it seems to me that yes, disc golfers would be cutting off their nose to spite the face. Avoiding parking fees at the expense of the thing they are parking there for in the first place. And yes, the thing which might ultimately "solve" the problem for everyone except the people who don't want to pay to park at the course, is 'No Parking' signs.

Does parking there make people douchebags or jerks or evil? Eh, it's an opinion. Can we all agree it's not going to help the course in the long run, it's not going to make a positive impression on the neighbors or Metro, and it's not going to help get Metro onboard to do a similar project?


Well said, Sir.

And thanks for this question and answer:

Originally Posted by spikehyzer View Post
Q: Jeff- since you've worked with Metro--- what's the best way to buy the annual pass while letting Metro know that their awesome blue lake course is the one and only reason for the purchase?
A: I walked in to the office (the brown house on the right just past the disc golf parking) and said I am here to buy a year pass for the disc golf course. I felt like that got the point across.

because that machine that I feed money into didn't know or care if they were disc golfer dollars
Peace, Douchebags

[matt]

having not played this course, i'm not certain i can contribute to this thread, but.....
if i lived on that street, that last thing i would want, is you damn frolfing hippies parking your vans in my spot

[sillybizz]

It's funny how there is more of an outcry in this sport over where you should be parking your car or returning a lost disc rather than not drinking, leaving litter and driving home drunk after playing your round at the local course.

[NWDiscer]

So far, Metro IS happy with how things are going, but they have definitely pointed out the few areas where we are having trouble. Mainly the problems were littering, boozing, smoking and that damned parking issue. Thankfully, Metro's proactive installation of additional trash cans has helped with the littering considerably.

It's funny how there is more of an outcry in this sport over where you should be parking your car or returning a lost disc rather than not drinking, leaving litter and driving home drunk after playing your round at the local course.

hmm looks like these have been talked about...

so as long as they dont drink/ get drunk or litter there empties it is ok to sneak in to play and piss off the local neighbors by parking along the street is that basically what your still saying SB? maybe you should worry about courses that you can have an effect on instead of what we have going on down here.

[Str8MaxW8]

hmm looks like these have been talked about...

so as long as they dont drink/ get drunk or litter there empties it is ok to sneak in to play and piss off the local neighbors by parking along the street is that basically what your still saying SB? maybe you should worry about courses that you can have an effect on instead of what we have going on down here.

Hell yeah Scott!

[Scott]

hmm looks like these have been talked about...

so as long as they dont drink/ get drunk or litter there empties it is ok to sneak in to play and piss off the local neighbors by parking along the street is that basically what your still saying SB? maybe you should worry about courses that you can have an effect on instead of what we have going on down here.
I think what he's saying is that there are bigger issues out there than the ones that get bitched about the most often.

And just because he doesn't live nearby means he can't voice his opinion? WTF?

[NWDiscer]

I think what he's saying is that there are bigger issues out there than the ones that get bitched about the most often.

And just because he doesn't live nearby means he can't voice his opinion? WTF?

you know what i have been playing this sport 15 yrs and i have known 1 discer that got a dui, while i have seen consumption of adult beverages, i saw very few people that were driving that i would not have gotten in their car a ridden with them.
i worked at a couple of country clubs in the 80's and saw more than a few members that i never would have gotten into a golf cart with to play golf with let alone get in their cars afterwards to go home.

Now that being said im sure that the masses of reg. discing people that dont put any time into the building or up keep of said courses and just go get shitfaced blotto and should not drive and leave empties every where on the course and start fires with the cigs they throw on the ground in their drunken stupors are def. a more important thing to deal with than people parking along a 2 way street and sneaking onto the course instead of not buying that Fing $8 18 pack of Natty ice to drink and litter that $5 pack of butts all over instead of just paying 5 dollars to park inside......:headbang: all of whom will never read this thread and in the end we may lose because of it...and if your to stupid to drive drunk :cop: :bricks:

and his opinion is as follows please Mr Hill tell me what he has contributed to this thread.

1) nothing about riding your bike to the course...

2) parking a few blocks away from a sports event to save a few bucks?? yea playing disc golf is like going to a Mariners or Seahawks or a Blazers game.....:shocked:

3) as for the road crew that put in the streets and signs..... huh??:rolleyes2:

So if you bike to work because parking is too expensive are you being a "douche bag" too?

So someone is saving a couple of bucks by walking a little farther like when you go to a sports event and park farther away to save money? Sounds reasonable but I guess that would be taking away from all of the hard work of the people who built the streets and and signs rights


Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybizz
It's funny how there is more of an outcry in this sport over where you should be parking your car or returning a lost disc rather than not drinking, leaving litter and driving home drunk after playing your round at the local course.


:dancing:

[TreeLove]

Wow, just for the record, I only ASKED about parking for free, I have never DONE so. I have PAID to park in the LOT and started on hole ONE all two times I have been there. Carry on.

[matt]

Hit a nerve

[couve discer]

I have paid to park the first 2 times and made it to hole 14 and hole 11 with the family before they could take no more. The next 2 times I parked by hole 8 and started there so we could play the rest of the course. The last came without the fam and paid but got to finish my round. I will be buying my pass next time I go.
Maybe 15 cars could park there by hole eight for whatever reason. As long as they are being respectful of the rules and not making disc golfers look bad other than being cheap.
I don't imagine the course being pulled because of someone taking pictures of there cars being parked on the street. But I could see it being pulled for pictures of people drinking and smoking and other illegal a activities that happen at every other park.
Parking is the least of my worries there and ill be glad to buy the pass for such a nice course.

[sillybizz]

so as long as they dont drink/ get drunk or litter there empties it is ok to sneak in to play and piss off the local neighbors by parking along the street is that basically what your still saying SB?

Adam already went over this but I'll repeat it; no one is 'sneaking' into the park, you pay to park your car in a certain area not to play the course.

So what YOU'RE saying is that it's OK to drink, litter, swear, do drugs, etc. at the course so long as you park your car in the fee area?

maybe you should worry about courses that you can have an effect on instead of what we have going on down here.

That is a very snobby, cliquey thing to say that I would expect to hear out of a Seattle area golfer.

It's an internet forum and I can state my opinion as long as I have an account, I could live in France and it doesn't matter.

If you take a look at my DGCR page you will see that I have played in six states and if you paid attention to many of my posts all over the interwebz you would be smart enough to figure out that I am a Stumptown member and that I travel to the Portland and Albany areas many times a year so these are courses that I do have an effect on.

You're missing my point in that there are bigger things that people do (or don't do) that have an effect on whether P&R are going to approve a new course than where they park their car.

[Str8MaxW8]

Not paying for parking.. Not doing your part.. Nuff said.

[sillybizz]

Not paying for parking.. Not doing your part.. Nuff said.

What a persuasive argument!

[TYVEK]

as i read between the lines within sillybizz's post i think what he is trying to say is that "he is volunteering to pay for everybodys parking and he is going to provide all the drinks and pot you can consume while on the course".

pay the parking fee people, you really cant be THAT HARD UP FOR MONEY.

[sillybizz]

I'm wondering why the parks did it this way, I mean they have to have known that people would find another spot to park close to the course to not pay for the parking. Is this something that slipped through the cracks or was it intended only for that parking spot within the park? Maybe instead of whining on the forum someone should inform them that people are doing this. Maybe they will start towing cars or maybe they don't care, who knows but until they are contacted we don't know. It's NOT pay to play the course it's pay to park your car and if some are smart enough to not pay then I say all more power to them and the more idiotic it makes the people in charge of the park look. If it's supposed to be pay to play then make it pay to play don't F around with some weird parking rule and if it's not then these people aren't doing anything wrong.

That's it for me in this thread the Sillybizz bashing can now go on without response from me.

:seeya:

[Bruce]

I know in West Linn there are many areas with street side parking that is permit only. People that live in the neighborhood get free permits. The streets open for public parking between 6 pm and 8 am. I would like to see something like this at Blue Lake!

[jdinteg]

I'm wondering why the parks did it this way, I mean they have to have known that people would find another spot to park close to the course to not pay for the parking. Is this something that slipped through the cracks or was it intended only for that parking spot within the park? Maybe instead of whining on the forum someone should inform them that people are doing this. Maybe they will start towing cars or maybe they don't care, who knows but until they are contacted we don't know. It's NOT pay to play the course it's pay to park your car and if some are smart enough to not pay then I say all more power to them and the more idiotic it makes the people in charge of the park look. If it's supposed to be pay to play then make it pay to play don't F around with some weird parking rule and if it's not then these people aren't doing anything wrong.

That's it for me in this thread the Sillybizz bashing can now go on without response from me.

:seeya:


Silly,
Not sure if you've had an opportunity to play this course yet. The parking area in question is within a neighborhood, but close to the park turn on hole 7/8. This is the one and only spot close enough to park and still get into the park. This is also a spot many of the neighbors would prefer to allow their guest and friends to park at, hence the reason they have not restricted this small 3-5 car patch of asphalt as no parking yet.

Bruce,
Great idea restricting the time allowed to park. That is the solution several neighbors are mentioning to the Blue Lake staff.

I had a great conversation with someone in the office today when I bought my year pass. I made sure to clearly state I'm buying the pass because of the Disc Golf course. I asked if the had any issues with disc golfers and they have been very pleased, litter has been cut down due to trash and recycle bins, and the parking situation is frustrating to the neighbors but not a deal breaker yet. This idea of a time that is restricted for parking is what she mentioned they plan to use as a remedy.

I had chosen not to get the pass when the park opened and it cost me over $55 since I had played so often in that short amount of time. I will make sure I don't let this pass lapse, unlike my Washington park pass I gladly let expire.

[Str8MaxW8]

What a persuasive argument!

It shouldn't be an argument.. It's common sense.

[Shankmaster]

"Park visitors who walk or bike to the park do not pay a parking fee"

[Shankmaster]

If you drive just pay the fee. You insult everyone who cares about this park by not doing so.

[olydiscgolf]

Its kind of funny, I've been following this thread all along and having never played the course, just assumed by the name calling, the threat of course removal, and the overal tone, that this thread was talking about a real issue of nobody paying to park. But no, It's about a "three to five car patch of asphalt". That really puts this into perspective...

[columbia gorge discgolf]

Much larger area than that Chris. Also people are starting to park up the streets in front of neighborhood houses. It's an issues that needs to be delt with much sooner than later. Best to get the problem in hand before it really takes off. 3-5 cars is an extremely conservative estimate. On a side note, I have a couple glow MRVs for trade if you're interested.

[olydiscgolf]

Much larger area than that Chris. Also people are starting to park up the streets in front of neighborhood houses. It's an issues that needs to be delt with much sooner than later. Best to get the problem in hand before it really takes off. 3-5 cars is an extremely conservative estimate. On a side note, I have a couple glow MRVs for trade if you're interested.

Well, a little thread drift is probably exactly what is needed here anyway... So, YES! I am definetely interested in your MRV's. PM me and let me know what you have.

[LakeStevensBA]

Chris Gilberts parked his camper in my yard for 3 days to play Aquafest. In hindsight, I should have charged him at least $5 per day to park there. If I would have brought this up, he would have probably just moved his camper to my neighbor's property and walked to my house to drink all my beers.

[olydiscgolf]

Chris Gilberts parked his camper in my yard for 3 days to play Aquafest. In hindsight, I should have charged him at least $5 per day to park there. If I would have brought this up, he would have probably just moved his camper to my neighbor's property and walked to my house to drink all my beers.

After I finished drinking your beer, I kicked your ass in fooseball, signed my name on your table and left.

[Scotty B]

I don't know how many of you all used the Blue Lake park before the course was installed but parking at the corner of Interlachen has been going on for a long time. I had a friend that lived back in the neighborhood for a couple of years and i used to see people unloading bikes going for walks and even parking at this location to walk into see fireworks. I hope that people parking there for free doesn't go away. Like I said I bought a pass and knew that the complaints were going to start and I wouldn't be surprised if it started from within the disc golf community we have bigger fish to fry like drinking,smoking and trash. also would it make everyone happy if someone paid to park 8 times and parked for free the rest of the year it is still 40 dollars whats the difference.

P.S. would you like me to display my pass when I park at hole 8

[E Smith]

A friend of mine lives on a street where people park to play tennis. There is no parking lot for the courts so we (the tennis players)park where we can. One day she pulled up and couldn’t park in front of her house. She saw my pickup parked on the block and came up and asked me to park on the next block. I understand why she asked but I asked if she would rather have friends park on her block or move to the next block so strangers could park on hers. She understood what I meant.

The way I see this thread is, some people want their friends (or the few who read this) to pay to park. The people who park on the road may not be members of or even know this forum exists. If you want to help your cause, help the neighbors change the parking rules outside of the park.

Maybe you should take a second before complaining about people finding a way to save a couple of bucks while acting within the law.

[Wes Hansen]

Parking vs litter, drinking, smoking, yelling profanities...
No brainer which the neighbors are worried about.
Those spots have been there, and used, Many, many years before the course was in.

[loki]

I understand that people have been parking outside the park (and walking in) for years. This I'm sure has been a talking point and inconvenience (at times) to neighbors. The issue is that now all those people who used to park there are still going to park there and now there will be many more people doing the same compounding the issue for the neighbors. If it does get out of hand disc golfers will become the scapegoat for everyone.
Of course there are other issues such as drinking, smoking etc but all these things should be proactively addressed in concert with each other. Saying that parking is only a "little" problem is stupid. If a neighborhood association is bothered enough they will act and they will be heard. (I again refer to the short-lived park in Gresham that had the support of the majority of neighbors but because of the gripes of two people in particular the course was pulled. These two people started a facebook page and daily posted pictures of cans/bottles, cigarette butts and where and how people parked).
There will always be some people who will thoughtlessly park but those of us who frequent this website are mostly people deeply entrenched in the disc golf community and it should be our duty to spread the word that parking outside blue lake could very easily lead to a disharmony between the neighbors and the course and could ultimately lead to it's removal. It would be a shame but if it happens don't say I (and many many others) didn't warn you.
If you park outside Blue Lake you may not be a douchebag but you most certainly are cheap and thoughtless and your actions could well lead to actions that will spoil the fun for many.

[jeffmonty]

I understand that people have been parking outside the park (and walking in) for years. This I'm sure has been a talking point and inconvenience (at times) to neighbors. The issue is that now all those people who used to park there are still going to park there and now there will be many more people doing the same compounding the issue for the neighbors. If it does get out of hand disc golfers will become the scapegoat for everyone.
Of course there are other issues such as drinking, smoking etc but all these things should be proactively addressed in concert with each other. Saying that parking is only a "little" problem is stupid. If a neighborhood association is bothered enough they will act and they will be heard. (I again refer to the short-lived park in Gresham that had the support of the majority of neighbors but because of the gripes of two people in particular the course was pulled. These two people started a facebook page and daily posted pictures of cans/bottles, cigarette butts and where and how people parked).
There will always be some people who will thoughtlessly park but those of us who frequent this website are mostly people deeply entrenched in the disc golf community and it should be our duty to spread the word that parking outside blue lake could very easily lead to a disharmony between the neighbors and the course and could ultimately lead to it's removal. It would be a shame but if it happens don't say I (and many many others) didn't warn you.
If you park outside Blue Lake you may not be a douchebag but you most certainly are cheap and thoughtless and your actions could well lead to actions that will spoil the fun for many.

^^ I think this comment right here sums up the whole point of this thread. Well said.