charging for returned discs

[hudsonryan]

I heard from a friend about a club member charging $5 for returned discs. The person supposedly scuba dives in shallow water, and calls the people about their discs. The first time it happened the man asked for a couple bucks for the oxygen tank or donations to a new local course being installed. This time around some club members are a little mad that they were being more so 'told' to pay $5 for THEIR disc instead of 'asked' for a donation.

I understand both sides of this argument about charging for it, but if I find a disc am I now allowed to call them up and ask for $5 to get it back??? My friend said the club seems to be all about charging the money because they are obviously benefiting from the so called 'donations'. Is some kind of integrity being broken here though by not being just willing to just give the discs back? I am sure the scuba diver is looking for his own discs as well. I am just curious what others think. Apparently, the club president even said to a person, tell the guy to go throw your discs back in the water then.

I think a buck or two isn't bad personally.

[Jreynolds]

I am a member of this club, and I was there when the president said this... and let me be the first to call bs... I have never charged for ANY DISC to be returned, and I've found some plastic that ppl would have given a big reward for (ce leopard, fr ce firebird, 10x roc, etc)... it would be a different story if I lost my irreplacable driver, and I told someone, "hey, I will pay you $20 to find my driver"... Plus, this kid isnt anything but a club member, how am I to know where my $5 went? Do I get a paper trail of receipts, to show everytime my money changed hands, until it helps pay for a basket?? Obviously that is a little extreme, but, how do I know this kid isn't just using my money to buy beer for himself?? My main problem is him holding discs for ransom. What is he going to do to my disc if I dont pay him? If he asked for donations, I would gladly flip him a 5. Lastly, it really pisses me off that he is using the new course as an excuse for bs behavior. If he called me and said "dude, I found your disc, could you donate to my beer fund?".. I gladly would donate, but demanding does nothing but make ppl mad... If he sells my disc to someone else, cuz I won't buy it back, I will still keep an eye out, and let them know its mine

[00-WING-NUT]

I'm not a member of the local club, but I did just get a returned disc that was lost in the water. The guy didn't ask for any money but I still spotted him $5 cause I thought it was nice of him to find my disc and actualy call me on it.

[DGShawn]

Is some kind of integrity being broken here though by not being just willing to just give the discs back? I am sure the scuba diver is looking for his own discs as well. I am just curious what others think.

My Opinion:

If you leave a park/course knowing you have a lost disc there, you are forfeiting your "ownership" of that disc. This applies to any "lost possession" really.
Is it great when a call comes? Absolutely, which is why I put my name and number on my discs, however, I do not ever "expect" to get my disc(s) back.

I see what the diver is doing here as a service. I know him personally, and know there is zero "shady" going on here. I think he merely saw an opportunity to help raise funds for the new course going in, I seriously doubt the Club had anything to do with the instigation of any of this.

My 2 pence.......argue away..:chinscratch:

Shawn

[blu666z]

While I don't agree with being told you have to donate to get your disc back, if somebody is taking the effort to dive for discs, you're the asshole if you're not kicking down a couple bucks.

[General Scales]

As soon as my disc hits water that isn't right off the shore of the river or lake or pond that I threw into, I consider it gone. Sucks but it's no longer my property. I knew the risk and I threw it. It's gone.

If a diver gets my disc back, is nice enough to call me and ask for a couple of bucks for the trouble, sweet. I wasn't going to go after it. It's awesome they did. The cost of even 5 bucks can be worth the money it saves in the long run. Like losing a OOP disc can set you back 50 or more depending on mold. 5 bucks seems like a better deal...

[Don't Think Twice]

I think given the effort the diver goes to to retrieve the discs, a small 'suggested donation' to help the cause isn't too far of a reach. A disc ransom seems like what this sounds like though. I threw a disc into a pond about a month ago and considered it gone but a guy i was playing with, didn't even know who he was, figured it was reachable so he worked on fishing it out and gave it back to me. i couldn't keep it for all his work and didn't have any beer, my usual repayment for lost discs, so i gave him the disc he retrieved out.

[EnigmaSquad]

I think I would just be happy if someone actually called when they found my disc.... :rolleyes2:

[whalekillah]

I think I would just be happy if someone actually called when they found my disc.... :rolleyes2:

Agreed!

[blaineT]

If someone is spending money on filling oxygen tanks to find discs that seems a bit different that just picking up a disc that was lying in the woods. And I've never seen a disc golf course with water hazards that I would voluntarily get into. Just sayin' ~

[Jason Philips]

I find it wrong to call it a donation when it is considered mandatory even if only implied.

On the topic of paying someone who retrieved my disc, I would kick down some cash for the effort. If the price was consistent and the person wasn't rude about it.

[NWDiscer]

I think I would just be happy if someone actually called when they found my disc.... :rolleyes2:

i have had so FEW disc's returned/called :shocked: ....the last person to return a disc to me got it given back to them a couple of weeks later and it was a early eco-destroyer. :rockon: Thanks Xander

i can seriously think of 2 calls from strangers on a piece of lost/left plastic in the last 10 years and 1 was from a ranger at Dabney and i have lost/left 20+ disc's in that time including many "CE" disc's.


i would have paid a 5 dollar fee for any1 of the disc's some1 had to dive for or 1 they picked up in the schule that i had lost.

[Cornwall, Esq.]

I would be fine paying $5 for most of my discs If I lost them, doubly so If lost in a water hazard. Other discs might not be worth $5, and I might then give it to the person who found it.

But note, this person who finds the abandoned personal property has a right of ownership against all but the true owner/bona fide purchaser (BFP). If the bona fide purchaser claims ownership, the finder of the abandoned property must relinquish control. Now being a BFP and proving that you are a BFP to the court are two different things entirely.

What the diver should be doing is reporting/turning over each abandoned disc to the police, and if not claimed after X amount of time, the police will typically give it to him as the finder of abandoned property.

[Jeff Hemmerling]

What the diver should be doing is reporting/turning over each abandoned disc to the police, and if not claimed after X amount of time, the police will typically give it to him as the finder of abandoned property.You're joking right?

[Danielsp12]

Just depends on how bad you want your disc back I guess, Ive lost one that I gladly pay $5.00 for, especially if it was to help fund the new course, I also have lost one that I wouldnt pay $5.00 for brand new, hence why I threw it and left the course once I lost it

[Jreynolds]

I still have no proof that my money would go towards the new course... Plus, the club prez said "he can just throw your disc back in the water", on top of being horribly immature, what good would that serve the "new course", that my money is SUPPOSEDLY going to

[ScottW]

I have no problem with being charged a "finders fee." Really the moment I walked away from a lost or drowned disc I gave up my ownership rights, otherwise I would have worked harder to get it back. The NIDGC has a similar system of a small (albeit optional) donation and works with a local diver. All unlcaimed discs are then sold at a very reduced rate to try to get cheap discs in the hands of potentially new players. This benefits us all and creates added funds to the club for the many projects that we undertake. Sorry though, there is probably not a paper trail, just a work trail leftover by all of the hard working NIDGC volunteers:cheers:.

[LakeStevensBA]

I played Monday doubles at lake stevens last night. For some reason I kept putting my partners disc in my bag. It happened all round. By the end of the night I had "found" 3 of his discs. I did not ask for a finders fee. I am above that! All I demanded from him for returnng his discs was a cold beverage.

[Mikk]

Look at it this way. If you loose a disc, consider it gone for ever and replace said disc. If it gets returned, then its a bonus. Throwing "CE" and or expencive/non-replaceable plastic = foolish to think it would ever get returned. This sucks I know but thats how most people are "finders-keepers". There are cool people that will return plastic, and they help spread the word about returning lost discs. A person who "finds" a lost disc has the right to ask for a donation or what ever for returning it. They took the time to call YOU, so YOU should be greatful. Most the time when I get a call about lost plastic, I tell the person to keep it. If I want it back, I tell them I have a 5$ reward for its return. This way everybody is happy and no fights break out ;)

[mine all mine]

A person who finds something (including a disc) does not have a right to ask for anything in return as a finders fee. It doesn't matter if the person "abandoned" it or not, it still belongs to that person as long as they are the true owner of said item. Ownership is not 9/10ths of the law!

That being said, chipping a few bucks in to get a disc back is good karma and I appreciate all those who have found a disc and called the RIGHTFUL owner

[Jreynolds]

^ thank you!! Finally someone gets what I am saying!! If you find some ones wallet, are you allowed to use their credit cards?? According to some of you, they "abandoned" their property, so its now rightfully the finders, WRONG!! Is it right if you find someones wallet, to demand they give you half the money in their accounts, and if they don't, that you will throw their wallet in the river?? No, it is absolutely wrong to treat someone like that, whether its a wallet or a disc!!

[grobert]

hello

[Scott]

A few years ago there were some heated discussions this forum regarding a person who would dive for discs and either charge for their return or post them straight o Craigslist. I asked a police officer if this was legal. He said that if someone puts their name an number on the USC it is reasonable to assume that they won't it back. Therefor, it is not abandoned property and it is not legal o keep or sell back.

[Cornwall, Esq.]

For those in WA state, read this section (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=63.29)

[TYVEK]

For those in WA state, read this section (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=63.29)


seriously??? you dont really expect people to go through and find an answer in all that do you? why dont you find the answer in all that and then post the answer or the direct link.

[General Scales]

Well, if people wanted to really know what property law was in this state, they'd read all of it. Only about 40 minutes of reading if you put your nose down to it.

[Cornwall, Esq.]

Sheesh, I thought y'all were genuinely interested in this topic. It's not like I've got you strapped into some kind of book reading torture device. I posted that link mostly for the laughs, and I have not been disappointed.

[Jreynolds]

My main point is this... If I found this guys wallet with his info in it, he would be pissed if I demanded cash for it's return, so why can he do this to my disc, with my info on it?? I could say, pay me $500 for finding your wallet, the money is going to feed hungry kids (my own, at dinnertime), its the same thing, and its not right!!

[Cliff]

I was at Timber Park today and fished out 2 disc's and I will not ask a flipping cent.:rockon:

[JNichols]

With ALL of the Plastic I have lost Between Oregon and Washington, I have been called MAYBE 25% of the time. MAYBE. BUT, I stopped looking and left it. Plain and simple. When I do get a call I tell them to keep it, or Give it to Someone that will throw it.
Probably the reason I have only thrown and lost ONE CE disc..... :)

[TREX]

I understand the issue and I can see why someone might be upset about the whole process. with that said, is there any way to resolve the issue by asking him directly? I mean coming here and posting this in the long run will server no purpose other than to make you feel better about your own opinion by getting people to side with you. Go right up to the guy and ask him to "ask" for donations and not ask for payment. Let him know that anything he gets for his time you would like to see put to the new course.
He can actually spend the money any way he wants. He has no obligation to put it toward anything he doesn't want to. The fact that he said it was for the new course is pretty cool but checking up on it is useless because he has the right to spend the money how he sees fit. It is his time and effort, and he should be rewarded in some way. Maybe clarify that with him and resolve it that way.

[EL DOTRRE]

Here is what I have been doing...I made a disc catcher to get one of my favorite discs back from Lakewood.I have returned over a 100 discs out of Lakewood,turned them into Kieth for in store credit,which I think is awsome! I have given players thier discs back at Lakewood when I'm fishin.I never got back my disc back with my huge catcher,but someone else returned it to Kieth.I'm now returning discs back to Kieth again but now I'm asking the owner of these returned discs to donate a new or used disc so I can send them to Kenya.I have asked for support here before and got very little response from my fellow golfers,so now maybe this will get someone else involved in helping the kids in Kenya.Chainbangers have said they are behind me in this.Thanks Kieth...It takes time and money to go fishin,I enjoy finding fellow golfers discs but if I throw a disc in the water I cosider it gone until I go fishin for it.Thats my 2 cents...

[Jreynolds]

Here is what I have been doing...I made a disc catcher to get one of my favorite discs back from Lakewood.I have returned over a 100 discs out of Lakewood,turned them into Kieth for in store credit,which I think is awsome! I have given players thier discs back at Lakewood when I'm fishin.I never got back my disc back with my huge catcher,but someone else returned it to Kieth.I'm now returning discs back to Kieth again but now I'm asking the owner of these returned discs to donate a new or used disc so I can send them to Kenya.I have asked for support here before and got very little response from my fellow golfers,so now maybe this will get someone else involved in helping the kids in Kenya.Chainbangers have said they are behind me in this.Thanks Kieth...It takes time and money to go fishin,I enjoy finding fellow golfers discs but if I throw a disc in the water I cosider it gone until I go fishin for it.Thats my 2 cents...

If you lose your wallet, do you just give up and consider it lost?? If I find your wallet, and ask for $500 for it's return, is that ok?

[tmiller]

If you lose your wallet, do you just give up and consider it lost?? If I find your wallet, and ask for $500 for it's return, is that ok?

If you "lost" your wallet trying to huck it 200 ft across a lake and left without retrieving it, then yes he can ask whatever he wants for fishing it out. You also always have the option of saying no...

[General Scales]

If you "lost" your wallet trying to huck it 200 ft across a lake and left without retrieving it, then yes he can ask whatever he wants for fishing it out. You also always have the option of saying no...

Yeah I find that most wallets aren't very high speed stable.

[mine all mine]

If you "lost" your wallet trying to huck it 200 ft across a lake and left without retrieving it, then yes he can ask whatever he wants for fishing it out. You also always have the option of saying no...

The reason I don't throw expensive plastic is because of comments like this...makes me sick!

[Jreynolds]

If you "lost" your wallet trying to huck it 200 ft across a lake and left without retrieving it, then yes he can ask whatever he wants for fishing it out. You also always have the option of saying no...

So you are claiming that WHERE you find it determines how much of a reward to ask... If you find my wallet in a lake, you will demand a reward. What if I get hammered and leave it at the bar? So if you find my disc in a tree, or in tall weeds off the fairway, you will return it for free, but a lake is too much? Who draws the line?

[tmiller]

So you are claiming that WHERE you find it determines how much of a reward to ask... If you find my wallet in a lake, you will demand a reward. What if I get hammered and leave it at the bar? So if you find my disc in a tree, or in tall weeds off the fairway, you will return it for free, but a lake is too much? Who draws the line?

Man, this topic really gets people going :) To clarify, I return all discs I find for free and ask nothing in return. I just happen to agree with the people that say when they leave the course without it, it's gone. If I happen to get one back, then bonus, but you talk like it is an expectation. Part of your disc selection on any particular hole should take into account the risk of losing the disc and how willing you are to part with it forever (this thread started talking about a diver pulling discs out of water, but this could apply to any shot). All my comment was getting at is that your wallet analogy is ridiculous. Of course I would return a wallet I found anywhere, same as a disc. The difference is you don't take willing, conscious risks with your wallet like we do when throwing plastic.

[sillybizz]

http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-08-30/1251654909866.jpg

[Jreynolds]

Man, this topic really gets people going :) To clarify, I return all discs I find for free and ask not in return. I just happen to agree with the people that say when they leave the course without it, it's gone. If I happen to get one back, then bonus, but you talk like it is an expectation. Part of your disc selection on any particular hole should take into account the risk of losing the disc and how willing you are to part with it forever (this thread started talking about a diver pulling discs out of water, but this could apply to any shot). All my comment was getting at is that your wallet analogy is ridiculous. Of course I would return a wallet I found anywhere, same as a disc. The difference is you don't take willing, conscious risks with your wallet like we do when throwing plastic.

The wallet analogy is right on point. It is something that belongs to me, that the finder can easily identify and contact the rightful owner. Either you return property that belongs to someone else, or you don't. I guess this is a moral debate, cuz there is no grey area, either you return found property, or you dont. I would return your disc, wallet, car, wife, or anything else I found of yours that was lost. there is actually a law against having someone else's stuff, it's called receiving stolen property. So, if I dont pay this guys ransom, and I report it stolen, then he becomes a thief, and if he sells it, the buyer is receiving stolen property, which is also illegal.

[3 Fingers]

To the diver dude this thread is about : First of all i found a nice snorkle and mask on hole #6 is this yours ?? Also i have 2 disc in the water on ALT #2 throwing RHBH hyzer.. Almost pin high 30ft out 5-6ft deep. Orange Destroyer , Blue Destroyer name and # on both . The blue D is not mine, i was holding it for a buddy till he gets back in the state.. Sorry ALDO .I will gladly pay 10$ for your service cause i know the $$$$ is going towards a new course in the Tri-Cities and i know i will see the same peeps on here playing that NEW course.. P.S : even more if you can get them back before the ROCKWELL OPEN

[tmiller]

The wallet analogy is right on point. It is something that belongs to me, that the finder can easily identify and contact the rightful owner. Either you return property that belongs to someone else, or you don't. I guess this is a moral debate, cuz there is no grey area, either you return found property, or you dont. I would return your disc, wallet, car, wife, or anything else I found of yours that was lost. there is actually a law against having someone else's stuff, it's called receiving stolen property. So, if I dont pay this guys ransom, and I report it stolen, then he becomes a thief, and if he sells it, the buyer is receiving stolen property, which is also illegal.

I should just let this be, but I'm having fun. You state "It is something that belongs to me...". This is where we differ. I would say belonged to you, right up to the point you threw it in a lake. Unless you go get it of course then it still belongs to you. There are other things that are illegal, like throwing things on the ground (or in the water) and leaving them there, it's calling littering. When you put your garbage on the curb and the truck takes it away does it still belong to you? What if some of it has your name and contact info on it? Maybe the definition that is causing the problem is "lost". If you know where your disc is in the water but choose not to go in yourself is it lost, or abandoned?

Kidding and debate aside, I would return your discs (or anything else) to you too. We just differ on how we feel about plastic we lose or throw away. Obviously I think it would be nice if everyone returned every lost disc. When I lose a disc that I want back I do what it takes to find it, otherwise I place the fault on myself and the disc is gone.

[Jreynolds]

I should just let this be, but I'm having fun. You state "It is something that belongs to me...". This is where we differ. I would say belonged to you, right up to the point you threw it in a lake. Unless you go get it of course then it still belongs to you. There are other things that are illegal, like throwing things on the ground (or in the water) and leaving them there, it's calling littering. When you put your garbage on the curb and the truck takes it away does it still belong to you? What if some of it has your name and contact info on it? Maybe the definition that is causing the problem is "lost". If you know where your disc is in the water but choose not to go in yourself is it lost, or abandoned?

Kidding and debate aside, I would return your discs (or anything else) to you too. We just differ on how we feel about plastic we lose or throw away. Obviously I think it would be nice if everyone returned every lost disc. When I lose a disc that I want back I do what it takes to find it, otherwise I place the fault on myself and the disc is gone.

The fault is definitely no one else's but my own when I throw a disc in the water as well. Maybe I have bad feelings about lost and returned discs because of my past of lost discs never getting back to me (only one put in a lost and found in over a year, probably 15 lost that never showed up), while I ALWAYS return discs. I no longer expect my discs to be returned, but I guess the ransom idea just rubs me the wrong way. Dave, good luck in getting your discs back, maybe you oughta put that found mask and snorkel to good use... Plus, if you find other ppls discs, you can charge them $5 a disc, and make some extra beer $$$!!!

[3 Fingers]

Thats not my style I give disc back for FREE !! and if you haven't noticed i'm a non drinker ..

[mine all mine]

When you put your garbage on the curb and the truck takes it away does it still belong to you? What if some of it has your name and contact info on it? Maybe the definition that is causing the problem is "lost". If you know where your disc is in the water but choose not to go in yourself is it lost, or abandoned?

If someone tries to use my property that I put on the curb knowing it was going to the dump, it is still mine. Your trash is YOUR trash according to the law. This also applies to lost property that is found regardless of how or where it was lost. It takes a while for the "abandonment" issue to come into play so not much issue there.

If I leave my bike on the corner and walk away from it with no intention of returning for it (but you don't know my intention), is it OK for you to take it?

[Jreynolds]

Thats not my style I give disc back for FREE !! and if you haven't noticed i'm a non drinker ..

I know you return discs for free, Dave, cuz you are not an @$$clown. But I did not notice that you're not a drinker, one less thing to waste money on!!

[3 Fingers]

I know you return discs for free, Dave, cuz you are not an @$$clown. But I did not notice that you're not a drinker, one less thing to waste money on!!

If it is his diving mask , i could give him a taste of his own medicine and sell back to him . LOL