Headwind Driver

[ski2man]

I am finally beginning to understand and appreciate the specific usefulness of certain discs. Headwind drives get me, they are rough for me...I do not have a big arm. I am rely more on accuracy, I do not fully know what to use for each situation yet so...

I was thinking about what people's favorite, most consistent and productive headwind drivers were...any thoughts?

[DGShawn]

Predator

[JR Stengele]

overstable destroyer for me - you might like to start with something less beefy like an orc, tbird, or tracker - in z/champ plastic.

[DGShawn]

overstable destroyer for me - you might like to start with something less beefy like an orc, tbird, or tracker - in z/champ plastic.

agreed, or even a Firebird would be good as well....

[geo_ducks]

Firebird is THE headwind driver. Too bad Discraft doesn't make the Xtreme anymore!

Viper, Whippet...pretty much discs that do not have much high speed turn.

Of course it is all a combo of the disc AND your technique. A good hyzer technique will treat you better than a flat release angle.

ski2man, you say you don't throw far. Does that mean you throw with an anhyzer angle to get D? If so, this will make the wind quite tricky...

[Parks]

It depends on how the headwind is affecting your throw.

If you have a clean, nose down throw and your disc is turning over too far, then you need something that is naturally stable to overstable. From stable to overstable, a good short list of drivers would include a Star/Champ Teebird, a Predator, a XXX, or a Firebird.

However, if you are throwing nose up or with off-axis torque and the headwind is getting under the flight plate and pushing or stalling your disc too much, then a different disc won't help you a whole lot. You'll have to correct your technique first.

[Scott]

In a good headwind, accept that you won't get as far. Don't try to throw to the pin. Settle for a controlled drive with an overstable disc that will get 3/4 of the way there.

[ski2man]

Firebird is THE headwind driver. Too bad Discraft doesn't make the Xtreme anymore!

Viper, Whippet...pretty much discs that do not have much high speed turn.

Of course it is all a combo of the disc AND your technique. A good hyzer technique will treat you better than a flat release angle.

ski2man, you say you don't throw far. Does that mean you throw with an anhyzer angle to get D? If so, this will make the wind quite tricky...

i have found an xtreme on ebay...so i know i can find them. i throw with a bit of an airbounce like an ultimate player. just how I do it, people give me shit for it all the time, but i have good accuracy with it. so this does inhibit my distance. so yes, i throw with an anhyzer angle with many discs to get some maximum distance.

[ski2man]

what about a blizzard ape?

[General Scales]

A Predator or a Trident are what I throw for most serious headwinds. If it's 5 miles per hour or under, I'll change the release angle on my disc to compensate for the headwind.

[Bruce]

All depends on how much of a headwind, I have a super overstable boss, all the way to a XXX's I use depending on how hard it's blowing. Though trident from Lat64 is very similar to the older Monster's and also a great choice, in my opinion.

[atlarson]

My 173+ Destroyers never let me down.

[Parks]

i throw with a bit of an airbounce like an ultimate player. just how I do it, people give me shit for it all the time, but i have good accuracy with it. so this does inhibit my distance. so yes, i throw with an anhyzer angle with many discs to get some maximum distance.

Well, this is a great shot for accuracy in calm conditions.

However, you are going to be pretty boned throwing this type of shot into a headwind with any disc. You best bet is to learn to throw nose-down hyzers if you want to be accurate and have decent distance into a headwind.

[Yoduh]

I like to teach head wind philosophy so that people can figure out which works better for them or where to start. So if a player throws a disc and it leaves his hand at 50 mph with calm conditions and the disc flies straight and goes 300 ft. A 10mph head wind picks up on the next hole and the same player throws the same shot and the disc flips and almost turns into a roller and goes 140 ft. What happened? It helps to picture the disc flying in a wind tunnel. Say a certain mold flies well at 50 mph but at 60 mph the disc becomes understable. That's effectively what is happening when you throw into a headwind. A lot of new golfers tend to throw harder into a headwind When in fact the opposite is much more effective. Backing off into a headwind can really be helpful throwing into a headwind. Of course throwing more stable can too.. My advice would be to figure out how stable the plastic you throw is in normal conditions. Find a chart that shows how all discs are compared to your go to. Try a disc that's a few notches above your go to but not to crazy stable. Especially with your throwing style. Just out of curiosity what disc works best for you with no wind. How worn is it and what weight and plastic is it?

[ski2man]

Just out of curiosity what disc works best for you with no wind. How worn is it and what weight and plastic is it?

that makes sense Yoduh.
well, i use katana's regularly but also have certain go to's for certain throws. I'm a pretty straight thrower, with that air-bounce I was talking about, I use a JLS and a z-avenger ss for straighter ones or turn overs respectively. A champion 170 katana that is beat in is a regular disc for me to let it do its thing, be a stable turner with some s-curve to it if I get it right. Most my drivers are around 170. However, i am really getting into the blizzard plastic now because it does add a lot of distance for someone like me with not too much arm. I throw a blizzard katana and teedevil now in many cases of wide open hucking, they are both 150. Those do not like the wind obviously, but it would be great to see if I could figure them out to handle it, don't know if that's possible.

does the same principle of going a little more stable apply to mid ranges in the wind? So does a headwind make a disc do what it wants more(in other words a stable disc goes more stable and understable almost turns into a roller) or is it just about the speed and they will all turn over at some certain speed? Just trying to get something in my head to remember what to do in odd situations like getting out of trouble...

[Scott]

what about a blizzard ape?

I thought it would be, but was very disappointed. The Blizzard Ape threw very understable for me and flipped in the wind very easily.

[Yoduh]

that makes sense Yoduh.
well, i use katana's regularly but also have certain go to's for certain throws. I'm a pretty straight thrower, with that air-bounce I was talking about, I use a JLS and a z-avenger ss for straighter ones or turn overs respectively. A champion 170 katana that is beat in is a regular disc for me to let it do its thing, be a stable turner with some s-curve to it if I get it right. Most my drivers are around 170. However, i am really getting into the blizzard plastic now because it does add a lot of distance for someone like me with not too much arm. I throw a blizzard katana and teedevil now in many cases of wide open hucking, they are both 150. Those do not like the wind obviously, but it would be great to see if I could figure them out to handle it, don't know if that's possible.

does the same principle of going a little more stable apply to mid ranges in the wind? So does a headwind make a disc do what it wants more(in other words a stable disc goes more stable and understable almost turns into a roller) or is it just about the speed and they will all turn over at some certain speed? Just trying to get something in my head to remember what to do in odd situations like getting out of trouble...

For a wide rimmed driver into a head wind a wraith could possibly be a pretty good choice. Red and dark blue's tend to be more stable. Look for a domey top to be a good indicator of how stable it is. Star Teebirds in same dark colors might be a good fairway driver. Look for both in the 167-170 range. A predator/firebird could be a good finishing driver. Meaning a disc you want flight out of but then a good finish to the left (RBH). Also If the wind gets really mean it could just be a go to driver. They also work good for side arm roller's, pancake's, and overhands/trickshots.


Headwinds will make any disc less stable. Some discs are so over stable that the wind may have to be blowing 60mph before you notice it.. That's when it gets really fun. Here's an example. All of these throws are written as if the thrower throws 300 feet on average. 10 mph headwind.. thrower puts out 3 shots at regular arm speed (85-90% power)with the disc turned down slightly. 1st shot is understable driver. Disc leaves hand and turns into a roller at 80 feet, rolls for 100 feet flips and lands on its back. Straight driver. Same release. Disc flies 140 feet. Lands on edge with out enough speed to stand up and cut rolls off to the left and lands on it's belly. Turning/ stable to over stable driver, when this disc is thrown usually it flies 230 feet before turning to the left and finishing about 250 feet down the fairway 25 feet to the right. Same release. Disc flies 260 feet pretty straight with a slight hyzer finish.
All of these are over simplified because the amount of snap can change the things slightly. The greatest predictor is arm speed. TO throw the understable disc into the head wind you could turn the disc so the angle of the release was way sharp. You could throw at 60-70% and get a full flight. There's a lot more guessing involved here than simply throwing more stable plastic but to achieve certain flights the mastery of such flights can be very desirable in some situations.
By rule I throw about 80% power most of the time. I often throw at less and rarely throw over 85.. This is how form and snap timing creates power.. have fun in the wind. A field will teach you this well before the course will.

[Nubin]

Firebird, the flatter the better.

[3 Fingers]

PRO DESTROYER works for me ..Or move to the Tri-Cities where the WIND always blows and you'll figure it out real quick. LOL

[sillybizz]

wn2vg8ips5g

[Mikk]

+++ on the destroyer, I keep a 175 glow destroyer in the bag just for headwind driving.

[TYVEK]

i have a esp force that has an unsually flat top that i like for headwinds. but a sure bet is a firebird.

[SPIDER-DAN]

I usually go with a pro line monster when dealing with the headwinds and the eltie z drone for a midrange. I dont usually get alot of distance because the monster just is not a super long distance driver.

If you throw katanas and what distance in a headwind........the first run star katana and even some of the flat stock stamp ones are very overstable compared to the champion plastic. The first run star has the 2010 pro worlds stamp (farting lemon). Mine is 168 grams and it is just know starting to fly straight in a headwind after 1 1/2 years. Im pretty sure the 175 grams would be the ticket.

[ski2man]

A field will teach you this well before the course will.

thanks for the great explanation, I will take it all into consideration!

[ski2man]

wn2vg8ips5g

Awesome!! thanks :)

[General Scales]

wn2vg8ips5g

That's the same thing I say to my discs before throwing them.

[juda4936]

I use the TeeDevil for head wind and it works GREAT!

[Ol' Bob]

126 Blizzard Destroyer. Henh.

[Big Red]

i stick to one that works anywhere. my blue z cyclone at 173.

[General Scales]

Nobody has said an Xtreme or a Ram yet..

[ski2man]

Nobody has said an Xtreme or a Ram yet..

someone mentioned xtreme early on, got one...not the biggest fan... but I think I can make it work.

[mazza]

Legacy Rampage

[Scott]

Nobody has said an Xtreme or a Ram yet..

I haven't met anyone other than me that throws a Ram. Got any extras? :biggrin2:

[OneDarkRebel]

Nuke OS...it's impossible to get those to go understable...I have a big arm and at The Memorial I threw them flat into 20+ mph headwinds and they stayed overstable...insane!

[ski2man]

Well, I've got plenty of choices for drivers now, thanks!!! How about the best headwind midrange?? something that can still get some distance but do what it's supposed to...

[mazza]

i like my wasp. but i've also used a fairway driver if it's to bad of a wind

[mowens404]

Gator. Won't ever turn over. It is a firebird that won't go as far. Great for headwinds.

[jdinteg]

Star 175g Rhyno for me. I can throw it just inside of 240'. Works great as a forehand roller too. I throw it about 10' shy of all the overstable mids I thrown. On hyzer with snap it will fade slowly but consistently, or flat and slow for a predictable finish. Great clutch putter in the wind, and I can flick it on anhyzer or slow hyzer for tough upshots. Probably one of three discs I would fear playing a round without. I have taken my overstable mids out of my bag and just kept the Rhyno.

[jdinteg]

Nuke OS...it's impossible to get those to go understable...I have a big arm and at The Memorial I threw them flat into 20+ mph headwinds and they stayed overstable...insane!

I would agree with this for sure. If I'm playing in a hurricane, I would use the Nuke OS. I threw it at my local park in gusts over 40 mph with branches flying. It was the only time I saw that disc fly straight, and not hyzer out soon. I bought it to compensate for my poor overpowering forehand technique, I does that very well. It is more stable then anything I've thrown, including max weight (XCaliber, Ape, Firebird, XXX, Trident, Destroyers, Predator, Giant, Halo, King, Riot, Blitz, and any Innova Champ Glow I have). If I need to turn hard right I throw it forehand, hard left backhand, crazy skip thrown upside down backhand or forehand. Smashed it into more trees then I can count, it has not lost stability. I have had it over a year playing 2-3 times a week. I use it as a utility disc mostly, I tend to favor my Firebird for thumbers and XXX for forehands that need finesse though. But the OS will probably not leave my bag anytime soon.

[mowens404]

I heard the mamba is great for headwinds. :whistler:

[Joshua Olmsted]

I feel somewhat bad that you got an xtreme, I love them personally and I have 2 in the bag, but they are so beefy that they barely fly, it's more of a weird mid-range that wants to be a fairway driver. As for good mids, I'm a fan of the drone, it's very overstable with, what I feel, is a more comfortable rim than other overstable mids like the gator.

[mowens404]

I feel somewhat bad that you got an xtreme, I love them personally and I have 2 in the bag, but they are so beefy that they barely fly, it's more of a weird mid-range that wants to be a fairway driver. As for good mids, I'm a fan of the drone, it's very overstable with, what I feel, is a more comfortable rim than other overstable mids like the gator.



Also has more glide than the gator, won't just die and fall.

[ScottW]

I just picked up a Lat. 64 Gold Line Villain to replace an Eco STAR Xcaliber that I lost. Very similar flight characteristics so it should be interesting to see how it compares. Haven't thrown it yet.

[General Scales]

I heard the mamba is great for headwinds. :whistler:

Yeah it is...:jumpspin:

[mowens404]

Yeah it is...:jumpspin:

unless you're a power thrower, than I'd recommend the vulcan. :nahnah:

[DMajor]

Don't think anyone has mentioned my favorite overstable driver for most forehand shots and for headwind backhands:

MAX!