2012 Beaver State Fling Amateur Lottery Results & Wait List

[Bullseye]

Here goes nothing.

Congratulations to all of you who made it in, and our apologies to those who did not.

PLEASE NOTE: I will be mailing out these invitations shortly (within a week). You will have TWO WEEKS from the day I send out that email to complete your registration, so watch your email boxes (and spambox). At the end of that 2 week period, if you haven't completed registration I will give your spot to the next person on the wait list.


Div Name
MA1 Isaac Aasen
MA1 Jason Abell
MA1 Nathan Anderson
MA1 Chris Auseth
MA1 Denny Axmacher
MA1 Jason Back
MA1 Jon Baker
MA1 Peter Belizi
MA1 Kenny Benjamin
MA1 Lewis Bitney
MA1 Ned Blaisdell
MA1 Nick Boardman
MA1 Greg Bowers
MA1 John Boyko
MA1 Jerry Brown
MA1 Danny Brown, Jr
MA1 Matt Burke
MA1 Dan Carpenter
MA1 Jason Carr
MA1 Dale Chambless
MA1 Matt Cook
MA1 William Danch
MA1 Josh Demartini
MA1 Ryan DeSpain
MA1 Joshua Dowdy
MA1 Joey Duckett
MA1 Jeremy Fancher
MA1 Miki Fujikawa
MA1 Chris Gilberts
MA1 Michael Grummert
MA1 Ryan Gwillim
MA1 Aaron Hagner
MA1 Travis Head
MA1 Justin Hiatt
MA1 Brandon Johnson
MA1 Joel Jones
MA1 Peter Jovanovich
MA1 Eric Kuusisto
MA1 Michael Lawand
MA1 Das Loomis
MA1 Eric Lund
MA1 Bryan Luoma
MA1 Teddy Machin
MA1 Zeb Maloney
MA1 Jason McGrew
MA1 Logan Miller
MA1 Joey Moro
MA1 Matt Murphy
MA1 Brian Newmark
MA1 Mathew Owens
MA1 Brandon Parsons
MA1 Josh Petit
MA1 Corey Phillips
MA1 Michael Phillips
MA1 Josh Pierce
MA1 Noah Politzer
MA1 Tim Price
MA1 AJ Risley
MA1 Morgan Rothrock
MA1 Nigel Rutigliano
MA1 Nate Salvon
MA1 Matt Schion
MA1 Mark Schlachter
MA1 Dana Simmelink
MA1 Stephen Sines
MA1 Joshua Skei
MA1 Tony Skrivanek
MA1 Scott Snow
MA1 Eric Vachon
MA1 Xander Waibel
MA1 Joe Winn
MA1 Dan Zents

Div Name
FM1 Rebecca Duffy
FM1 Darlene Kaetzel
FM1 Nichola Landry
FM1 Nancy Morgan

Div Name
FA1 Cyndi Baker
FA1 Chris Brow
FA1 Ashley Davies
FA1 Minna Dennis
FA1 Ashley Gilbert
FA1 Janine Gunn
FA1 Sarah Johnson
FA1 Andrea Keller
FA1 Cindy McMahan
FA1 Monica McNeal
FA1 Courtney McSherry
FA1 Jessica Poffenroth
FA1 Erin Reichel
FA1 Celeste Scandiffio
FA1 Amber Snow
FA1 Tanya Spence
FA1 Rebecca Tobias
FA1 Kirsten Voyer
FA1 Sally West
FA1 Jessie Ziegler

Div Name
MM1 David Babuka
MM1 Steve Carson
MM1 John Cloutier
MM1 John Crabtree
MM1 Jeff Elliot
MM1 Birk Ellis
MM1 Steve Erle
MM1 Andy Foster
MM1 Steve Ganz
MM1 Chris Graham
MM1 Lance Hankins
MM1 Randy Ivie
MM1 Jared James
MM1 John Kimbler
MM1 Ron Klein
MM1 Wing Ko
MM1 Rufus Manley
MM1 Ryan Mickelson
MM1 Craig Nielsen
MM1 Elec Pryor
MM1 Jeffrey Roberts
MM1 Terry Shuler
MM1 Daniel Sieverin
MM1 Gawain Stern
MM1 Michael Trask
MM1 Russell Tritico
MM1 Kevin Willis
MM1 Garin Wootton

Div Name
MG1 Virgil Ackerman
MG1 Michael Blair
MG1 George Bodiroga
MG1 Tom Bontempo
MG1 Dave Coleman
MG1 Hugh Everett
MG1 Kerry Gaughran
MG1 Lonell Greene
MG1 Robert Guessford
MG1 Dan Hammett
MG1 Garry Hanley
MG1 Phillip Kurtz
MG1 Don Richter
MG1 Allen Risley
MG1 Scott Searles
MG1 Paul Wright

Div Name
MS1 Robert Burton
MS1 Eugene Fackler
MS1 Dennis Rockwell
MS1 Charles Parsons

[andrea2279]

Thanks for all you guys do!!

[Bullseye]

1 Tan Nguyen - DECLINED
2 Justin Romito - INVITED
3 Troy Cyganowski - INVITED
4 Jason Kimbell - INVITED
5 Brandon Hansell - INVITED
6 Luke Jenks - INVITED
7 Scott McMullen - INVITED
8 Aaron Kinyon - INVITED
9 Nicholas Hajicek - DECLINED
10 Zach Beltz - INVITED
11 Eric Langsam - INVITED
12 Bryan Wilkinson - DECLINED
13 Raymond Sanchez - INVITED
14 Lee Smith - DIDN'T ANSWER HIS PHONE. TWICE. OOPS.
15 Grant Berry - DECLINED
16 Ray Mckillop - DECLINED
17 Kevin Chow - INVITED
18 Martin Barnett
19 Adam Clark
20 Jayden Johnson
21 McKenzie Baldwin
22 Marshall Dunst
23 Eric Taylor
24 James Templeton
25 Connor Smith
26 Matt Yencopal
27 Richard Dore
28 Brian Cole
29 Jason Andrews
30 Victor Cervantes
31 Kyle Smart
32 David Berck
33 John Fox
34 Roy Albert
35 Cole Swanson
36 Douglas Whitney
37 Charles Andersen
38 Mark Scheid
39 Shawn Davis
40 Ric Schaaf
41 Drew Gibson
42 Kevin Pavlak
43 Shibley Burnett
44 Gary Newman
45 Jason Ames
46 Andy Campbell
47 Travis Roehl
48 Nate Bell
49 Shane Collins
50 Manuel Cervantes
51 Jordan Bowser
52 Sean Johnson
53 Solomon Henson
54 Kevin Holloway
55 Daniel Leckband
56 Rick Reichard
57 Kyle Sutherland
58 Jake Peters
59 Craig Woeck
60 Dallas Steely
61 Dan Brown
62 Kelly Collins
63 ThomasCruz
64 Jason Lewis
65 Jesse Everett
66 MichaelRay
67 David Hanley
68 Travis Lindstrom
69 Sage Williamson
70 Logan Grasseth
71 IanSmiley
72 JoshuaNoone
73 Toby Cheff
74 Timothy McDill
75 Ian Stone
76 Edward Florance
77 Don Alexander
78 Nicholas Johnson
79 Jason Bruster
80 Danial Schmidt
81 Nick Sikorski
82 Kevin Aquino
83 Tristan Hundley
84 Frankie Baltierrez
85 Paul Coover
86 Robert Waters
87 Robert Littrell
88 Adam Wagner
89 Bryan Serniotti
90 Carl Boje
91 Ben Chilton
92 Zaq Jones
93 Chris Sams
94 Warren Hollinshead
95 Steven Winslow
96 Jeff Monette
97 Ben Armstrong
98 Matthew Zlatich
99 Christopher Allan
100 Marcus Poppen
101 Robert Davies
102 Derek Penfield
103 Joe Hellickson
104 Brandon Mokuiki
105 josh aumick
106 Sean Murphy
107 Marcus Crespi
108 David Stewart
109 Chris Bowden
110 Justin Gaston
111 Trent Miller
112 Chris Wright
113 Ian Schelly
114 Shawn Barry
115 andi jones
116 Max Dimmick
117 Joe Garrettson
118 William Wagman
119 Cameron Ficker
120 Brandon Miller
121 James Taylor
122 Anthony Chivers
123 John Stengele
124 Todd McDowell
125 Josh Johnson
126 Ryan Lange
127 Jeff Heider
128 Shawn Barnett
129 Tim Baugher
130 Andrew Nava
131 Charlie Tellessen
132 Dustin Clark
133 JP Russo
134 Robert Daley
135 Chase Estep
136 Jusitn Shrack
137 Nick Wood
138 Luis Nava
139 Curtis Monette
140 Evets Valencia
141 Brian Jacobs
142 Jason Oxsen
143 Jerimie Lankins
144 Kevin O'Brien
145 Eric McDonald
146 Andrew Downey
147 Jason Turner
148 Sawyer Bracy
149 Tim Wenrich
150 Chris Provencher
151 Mike Dietrich
152 Drew Brown

[Bullseye]

1 - Kim Smothers - INVITED

[Bullseye]

1 Dan Denny - INVITED
2 Chris Cox - INVITED
3 Scott Belknap - INVITED
4 Jordan Lewis - INVITED
5 Steve DeFord - INVITED
6 David Zimmerman - INVITED
7 Crist Garcia - INVITED
8 NATHAN KABZA
9 Rich Baker
10 Sam Gibson
11 Mark Burgess
12 George Adams
13 Robert Byram
14 Jesse Grasseth
15 Gerardo Di Pietro
16 Gordon Field
17 Michael Gay
18 Steve Gelhar
19 Tobin Engen
20 David Heider
21 James Huestis
22 jeremy john
23 John Johnson
24 Todd Jordan
25 Bill Mansfield
26 Kent Smothers
27 Scott Martin
28 Darin McCoy
29 Tom Osterdahl
30 Ron Owings
31 Michael Reed
32 Lionel Simmons
33 Dino Papagni

[Bullseye]

1 Wes Hansen - INVITED
2 John Stach
3 Ray Rothrock
4 Brad Huggins
5 Jeff McBride
6 Ward Stroud
7 Joe Higgins
8 Lawrence Adams
9 Robert Brown
10 Ed Johnson
11 Jim Quinn
12 Robert Stoltz
13 Howard Thomas
14 Rick Buttle
15 Paul Larson

[loki]

Well, like an idiot, I completely missed even entering the lottery and so there will be no mm1 for me this year. That being said I recognize a ton of names (many who would be very competitive) on the waitlist. I hope all my old friends (old being the operative word here) and all those whom I have enjoyed many rounds with get a chance to compete.:yay:

[murray the brit]

Don't forget you can still be part off the bsf by volunteering see my post

[Tanya Spence]

Don't forget you can still be part off the bsf by volunteering see my post


Im gonna volunteer on Friday even though I got in!!

See your post, I will (:

[Tanya Spence]

Im gonna volunteer on Friday even though I got in!!

See your post, I will (:

Post looked for... yet to be seen.

Help me Murray, You're my only hope!!!

[LegoRules]

Post looked for... yet to be seen.

Help me Murray, You're my only hope!!!

It is actually a separate thread.

http://nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8838

[Tanya Spence]

It is actually a separate thread.

http://nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8838



Oh, Thanks!

I looked for a seperate thread like last year but I didn't see it.

Thanks, McMayhem!!

[Bullseye]

We will not be adding ANY more names to the Amateur Wait Lists... not even for women. We feel like we have gone above and beyond the call of duty for the ladies on this event, including take an entire extra card from MM1. We already have 100s of people on wait lists, and we feel like someone who wanted to play that badly should have signed up on their own when they had a chance.

If we have a number of women drop out of the event at this point, we will fill those cards with the two ladies on the wait list, but after that point we intend to fill the remaining the spots with the men who DID put their names in.

I hope you all understand.

Jeff H

[Tanya Spence]

We will not be adding ANY more names to the Amateur Wait Lists... not even for women. We feel like we have gone above and beyond the call of duty for the ladies on this event, including take an entire extra card from MM1. We already have 100s of people on wait lists, and we feel like someone who wanted to play that badly should have signed up on their own when they had a chance.

If we have a number of women drop out of the event at this point, we will fill those cards with the two ladies on the wait list, but after that point we intend to fill the remaining the spots with the men who DID put their names in.

I hope you all understand.

Jeff H


Much appreciated!!

This will be the largest FA1 field that I have been a part of. A huge opportunity.



p.s.- Jeffs are RAD!!

[LegoRules]

Much appreciated!!

This will be the largest FA1 field that I have been a part of. A huge opportunity.



p.s.- Jeffs are RAD!!

What she said! :rockon:

Cindy :)

[Amber]

i thought there were gonna be 32 adv masters not 28

[emmarose]

i thought there were gonna be 32 adv masters not 28

us girls stole them spots. :p

see post #14... and tell crist no more whining, emma says so...

[Bullseye]

i thought there were gonna be 32 adv masters not 28

As I mentioned earlier, we pulled a card from MM1 to add an additional women's card. Now, I know that probably pissed off a lot of guys, but the reality is this: There are 120 men in this event and only 24 women. Giving them ONE extra card is hardly unfair.

[Amber]

not whining just wondering when i had talked to jeff earlier he had said 32. now we just need a couple of shadow cards:):)

[Bullseye]

not whining just wondering when i had talked to jeff earlier he had said 32. now we just need a couple of shadow cards:):)

I can safely say that is not gonna happen. There's just not enough time in the day.

[Denny]

Did you see the size of that wait list? :jumpspin:
Looks like we got us some disc golfers in these parts

[Bullseye]

Did you see the size of that wait list?

Yup. And it breaks my heart to see so many awesome people on it. This is the absolute worst part of the BSF for me. I'd take a work party any day.

[Amber]

i think we should make the ams play three days also. One round a day we could accomidate more players without to much hassle. AMS on one side pro's on the other. just a suggestion..

[Bullseye]

i think we should make the ams play three days also. One round a day we could accomidate more players without to much hassle. AMS on one side pro's on the other. just a suggestion..

Its a LOT more complicated than that unfortunately. Trust me, we have looked at every possible angle, and there really is no "easy" solution.

[Amber]

i was just wondering,the tee times at the memorial seem to flow pretty good. not saying that yur way is not good! Mite be worth looking at though. there were alot of ams at that event and no conflicts that i had herd. And agian you are doing a great job i understand yur dalema i too hate to see all these good players sitting the side lines not being able to play, not just me. I think if we all want to play we need to step up as a community of golfers and make this even better for the future. And not just complain about how you and yours mite be getting it done. i would like to see the biggest field ever in oregon. I say shut up and put up to all of those who arn't!! with that being said,I am bummed that I'm not playing,and if you need my help let me know??

[Sam]

Very disappointed. Don't really have much else to say.

[CarlitosBonitos]

However I did some research on the Advanced Men’s field and found that there are 17 out of the 72 lottery winners who were also able to play last year, which equates to 23.6% returning players and when I compare that I am #90 out of 150 on the waitlist, the 17 spots that probably shouldn’t have gone to players who got to play last year, doesn’t really matter as the problem isn’t really in the hands of Jeff or anyone else and how they choose to run the entry system. It really boils down to supply and demand. The demand to play in the Beaver State Fling is very high! The supply without going to ridiculously demanding efforts on the part of the TD's is what it is and that is low. I propose an economics lesson wherein Cost is directly correlated to the point where supply intersects with demand. Perhaps raising entry fees considerably would not only raise additional funds to further the efforts of the BSF, but also to raise the Cash Payouts on the Pro Side to attract even more of the world’s best players. I must admit I am likely in favor of this as I have steady work and make a decent living and would be willing to pay (***read donate) a couple hundred dollars to compete in this event.

The only other solutions I can see are predicated on qualifiers, or some kind of earning your spot through disc golf related activities such as work party hour credits or community service activity credits or? Or? Or? Or I guess I will just shut up and hope that it won’t be 3 years in a row without playing in the BSF, or I will invest my $200 into proper putting lessons and qualify as a pro???

That being said, thanks to everyone involved for their efforts!

[mowens404]

The only other solutions I can see are predicated on qualifiers, or some kind of earning your spot through disc golf related activities such as work party hour credits or community service activity credits or? Or? Or? Or I guess I will just shut up and hope that it won’t be 3 years in a row without playing in the BSF, or I will invest my $200 into proper putting lessons and qualify as a pro???






I think that is a cool idea. You must prove your worth! work party's and fundraising along with ability. BUT... I also think that the amount of work these guys are doing and have done to put this on, gives them the right to leave it to a lottery and call it that. (but I got in, so I might be biased in the lottery's favor.) Thanks Jeff and Jeff! you guys rock! :bowing:

[Scott]

The only other solutions I can see are predicated on qualifiers, or some kind of earning your spot through disc golf related activities such as work party hour credits or community service activity credits or? Or?

There goes the chances of anyone from outside the Portland area.

[mowens404]

There goes the chances of anyone from outside the Portland area.


good point

[Reichard]

Dam feriners filded ar ternimint! Orgun ternimints fer Orgunites! :nahnah:

[Reichard]

Very disappointed. Don't really have much else to say.

Say that you reg'd for MPM as a fall-back plan? I hit every angle I could (short of relocating my brain from my lower abdominal area to the empty space above my shoulders) to try and increase my chances to play.

[Bullseye]

However I did some research on the Advanced Men’s field and found that there are 17 out of the 72 lottery winners who were also able to play last year, which equates to 23.6% returning players and when I compare that I am #90 out of 150 on the waitlist, the 17 spots that probably shouldn’t have gone to players who got to play last year, doesn’t really matter as the problem isn’t really in the hands of Jeff or anyone else and how they choose to run the entry system. It really boils down to supply and demand. The demand to play in the Beaver State Fling is very high! The supply without going to ridiculously demanding efforts on the part of the TD's is what it is and that is low. I propose an economics lesson wherein Cost is directly correlated to the point where supply intersects with demand. Perhaps raising entry fees considerably would not only raise additional funds to further the efforts of the BSF, but also to raise the Cash Payouts on the Pro Side to attract even more of the world’s best players. I must admit I am likely in favor of this as I have steady work and make a decent living and would be willing to pay (***read donate) a couple hundred dollars to compete in this event.

The only other solutions I can see are predicated on qualifiers, or some kind of earning your spot through disc golf related activities such as work party hour credits or community service activity credits or? Or? Or? Or I guess I will just shut up and hope that it won’t be 3 years in a row without playing in the BSF, or I will invest my $200 into proper putting lessons and qualify as a pro???

That being said, thanks to everyone involved for their efforts!

Carl,

Thank you for your understanding. I will say one thing though, I will NEVER agree to using pricing to edge people out of this tourney. Yes, the price may have to go up at some point, but not with the intent of driving people away. This isn't about who has the fattest wallet... its about disc golf.

Jeff

[Jester]

Very disappointed. Don't really have much else to say.

Feeling your pain..... can't stop crying. Want to meet at Whistlers the 16th of June to commiserate?

[Sam]

Thinking about it. That does sound like a good idea... Let's talk in two weeks.

[bryan_luoma]

Similar to the NT side, I wonder if tiered, ratings-based registration would be a workable solution to the overwhelming demand?

It seems that the same reasoning applies to the A-tier side.

[CarlitosBonitos]

Carl,

Thank you for your understanding. I will say one thing though, I will NEVER agree to using pricing to edge people out of this tourney. Yes, the price may have to go up at some point, but not with the intent of driving people away. This isn't about who has the fattest wallet... its about disc golf.

Jeff

I understand there is no perfect solution Jeffery, Not trying to say it would be fair, but I also think that this is a prestigious event and if you take a look at the calendar you will see many, many events that are very affordable. It is Disc golf and it is not supposed to cost a fortune to be able to play or compete, but this is the best annual tournament on the West Coast IMO. Anyways, I like the idea of giving preference to people who actually earn their spot through work parties and such much better as an alternative, and to speak to the point Scott brought up of this eliminating the crowd outside of Portland; I don’t live in Portland, I live an hour away. It would be up to me to decide how bad i want to play in the BSF and determine if I can put in the man hours that would equate to my tournament entry. If I don't than I have no one to blame but myself, and I certainly cannot blame a lottery. The Pro side of things should not be reserved for the local crowd only, it should be constructed in a manner that encourages the best players possible to compete with each other. The rest of us however have demonstrated far too great of a demand and therefore I think the fair thing to do is give preference to those who frequent the course and contribute to it, while encouraging these same people to frequent and contribute to the other courses supported by the powers at be with regards to the BSF. That is all and just discussing openly some ideas, not meant as an attack on the poor, geographically challenged, or any other group of peeps I may have left out :)

[Bullseye]

Similar to the NT side, I wonder if tiered, ratings-based registration would be a workable solution to the overwhelming demand?

It seems that the same reasoning applies to the A-tier side.


Bryan,

I had initially requested that exact thing last year and the PDGA declined to allow it. I can see both sides of this argument, but I think I may need to push them a little harder next year.

So, while that might work for MA1. What about all of the other divisions? Hell, we have 32 Advanced Masters and 15 Advanced Grandmasters on the wait list, and those divisions are only going to get bigger. Do we set ratings caps for everyone? See the can-o-worms you open up there?

How about this: If we continue to attract more and more female golfers (as we should) they will continue to pull slots from the men. What then? Imagine how pissed Amber will be when THAT happens! ;)

I'm really just throwing these questions out there because they are real issues to be addressed, and the answers might look more obvious than they really are. Whatever the case we need to do something. Even the lottery, which is as fair as we could come up with, is far from perfect. Hell, the whole process seems borderline unmanageable. Well, I take that back. It can be managed... just not if I want to keep any friends. :D

Jeff

[*freeskier]

not whining just wondering when i had talked to jeff earlier he had said 32. now we just need a couple of shadow cards:):)

Yeah, like 50 of them.

[J Monette]

Jeff,

I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

Jeff

[Kenny B]

I think the lottery system is 100% fair: equal chance for all who want to play. First-come, first-serve used to also be fair; that was until the event filled up in 3 minutes online, then it was no longer fair to those without good internet connections. Increasing the cost is not fair for obvious reasons (well, obvious to me anyway). Would an entry fee of $100 be enough to reduce the entrants? How about $200? $300? Whatever it would be, it's way too much. Qualifying events would not be fair to players far away.

Qualifying events, however, are very intriguing indeed. They are inherently fair as long as people have an equal opportunity/cost to attend the events. If qualifying events could be used in a fair manner, they would probably be accepted by the disc golf community.

What I'm getting at is a small number of spots reserved in each division for qualifiers. So, for MA1, a pool of 72, hold 12 spots in reserve for the top 3 finishers at 4 separate qualifying events. That leaves 60 spots remaining. Now, the hard part: do you let the players who entered qualifying events, but didn't qualify, enter the lottery? If so, they have an unfair advantage because local players could have higher chances of getting in. If you don't let them enter the lottery. Well, then they'll get pissed off!!!

[Matt B.]

Jeff,

I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

Jeff

Step right up and make it happen!

[Kenny B]

Jeff,

I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

Jeff

I agree that it would be sweet to have a massively increased capacity. I've thought of a number of ways this could be done but they all add up to chaos for the TDs. Lengthening the event would be a good way, but can A-tiers be that long? Also, would it be odd to have the Ams play more days than the Pros? I'm guessing the touring Pros would not come so consistently if it was a 4 or 5 day event.

[ski2man]

:waaah:

[J Monette]

Kenny B,

I agree with the point that you wouldn't want the pro side of the event lengthened, they have other tourneys to head off to. The Ams are really the problem here. The amateur championships are longer than 2 days and have a very large capacity, so I don't think it violates rules for an A tier event. Also, the TD's definitely couldn't magically squeeze 180 more people into the two day event. Would a Thursday through Sunday event add enough spots to stop the majority of the belly aching?

Ski2man,

Where did you get the video of me when I found out I had lost the lottery again?

[Kenny B]

One of my older ideas the received no traction in the past...advance the players to the final round on sunday by their finish in a pool.

------------------------------
BSF as it sits now for Ams: two pools, C (AM1) and D (the rest).

Saturday AM: C on East and D on West
Saturday PM: D on East and C on West
Sunday AM: C on East and D on West

------------------------------
Proposition: eight pools, C (AM1), D (the rest), E (AM1), F (the rest), G (AM1), H (the rest), I (AM1), and J (the rest).

For the weekend before the Pro's arrive:
Friday AM: C on East and D on West
Friday PM: D on East and C on West
Saturday AM: E on East and F on West
Saturday PM: F on East and E on West
Sunday AM: G on East and H on West
Sunday PM: H on East and G on West

For the Pro NT weekend:
Saturday AM: I* on East and J* on West
Saturday PM: J* on East and I* on West

Create new pools K (AM1) and L (the rest) that are made up of the top 25% (based on finish, not score, due to weather factors) in each of pools C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J.

*NOTE: pools I and J can consist of all out-of-town players so that they don't have to travel to Portland twice.

Sunday AM: K on East and L on West

Cool parts:
-two weekend of awesome disc golf
-8 x 72 = 576 happy players

Not so cool parts:
-TDs have 4 amatuer check in days!! Can you image the player pack chaos alone?
-Who in the heck is going to volunteer to work these days when everyone is playing?

[TreeLove]

Jeff,

I think the only way to make all of us happy is to extend the number of tournament days to allow for more people to get in. It is the only major that is close to the Pacific NW. It is always going to have a large amount of people wanting to play in it. It can't be done in 2 days without going through this every year. I agree that the ratings requirements or the qualifiers would be unfair to folks not in the Portland area and it truly doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that disc golf is booming in the Pacific NW and people want to get in on the biggest and most fun tournament of the year. Speaking from the point of view of one of these boomers, who also has landed in the 90's on the waitlist for 2 years in a row, something has got to be done to increase the capacity of this venue!

Jeff

Well, technically, the BSF is an NT, a National Tour Elite Series event (for Pros, a SuperTour (A-tier) for Ams), not a Major. Majors in the Pacific Northwest are even more rare, wait: has there ever been one at all?

[stevegelhar]

Bryan,

I had initially requested that exact thing last year and the PDGA declined to allow it. I can see both sides of this argument, but I think I may need to push them a little harder next year.

So, while that might work for MA1. What about all of the other divisions? Hell, we have 32 Advanced Masters and 15 Advanced Grandmasters on the wait list, and those divisions are only going to get bigger. Do we set ratings caps for everyone? See the can-o-worms you open up there?

How about this: If we continue to attract more and more female golfers (as we should) they will continue to pull slots from the men. What then? Imagine how pissed Amber will be when THAT happens! ;)

I'm really just throwing these questions out there because they are real issues to be addressed, and the answers might look more obvious than they really are. Whatever the case we need to do something. Even the lottery, which is as fair as we could come up with, is far from perfect. Hell, the whole process seems borderline unmanageable. Well, I take that back. It can be managed... just not if I want to keep any friends. :D

Jeff

Jeff,

I think prior to next summer some thought should be put into what the goal of the amateur BSF is. If you'd/we'd like it to be the "best of the best amateurs in each division come to Oregon to compete in one of the biggest tournaments in the country", the lottery doesn't work. If the goal is "fairness to all disc golfers, regardless of division or ability, to compete within respective divisions", the lottery works. Being a competitive MM1er this year I'd love to say it's "best of the best" since that'd be great for Oregon, but because of the random lottery you can really only say that about the pro side of the tourney.

That said, it may be the PDGA's perspective that amateur events, even "major" ones, should remain fair and less competitive (perhaps, unfairly IMO, to encourage the better ams to move up). If this is the case, then I guess the lottery is something all ams have to accept. I can't help but be disappointed though that the BSF, the highest profile tournament in Oregon, won't have participants who represent the best amateur disc golfers that Oregon (and the country) has to offer, unless of course if it randomly falls that way (which'll never happen).

Steve Gelhar

( Also note that, while I'm bummed I didn't make the cut in MM1, I accept that it's purely because I lost a coin flip and am in no way honked at the TDs. It's the TD's tourney, and they announced the fairness method prior. That said, it bites I'll not be able to compete. )

[jcrab66]

wow, i got in!, on another note I look forward to flying back out and visiting my favorite part of the country, I was going to come out the week before and try and play the tourney layout sometime early in the week before the fling, now i guess i get to play it during the fling. Big year for me with some quality tourneys on the horizon....really looking forward to this one!

[Matt B.]

i think we should make the ams play three days also. One round a day we could accomidate more players without to much hassle. AMS on one side pro's on the other. just a suggestion..

We?

[Matt B.]

Feeling your pain..... can't stop crying. Want to meet at Whistlers the 16th of June to commiserate?

The MPM division was open for several days Mr. 960+ rating. Didn't you almost win this thing in MM1 last year?

[SMOKIN JOE]

Bummer. Again. O'fer on the lottery system. Since it's a lottery system, I suggest every year you don't get in you get an extra ball. :D
Numbers would suggest, most amount of players = two events.
Been fortunate to play in a few of them. Thanks given for that.
Feel real sorry for anyone that hasn't.

[LegoRules]

Bummer. Again. O'fer on the lottery system. Since it's a lottery system, I suggest every year you don't get in you get an extra ball. :D
Numbers would suggest, most amount of players = two events.
Been fortunate to play in a few of them. Thanks given for that.
Feel real sorry for anyone that hasn't.

Um Terry the first list on this thread is for the people who DID get in, and you ARE on that list. :yay:

Div Name
MM1 David Babuka
MM1 Steve Carson
MM1 John Cloutier
MM1 John Crabtree
MM1 Jeff Elliot
MM1 Birk Ellis
MM1 Steve Erle
MM1 Andy Foster
MM1 Steve Ganz
MM1 Chris Graham
MM1 Lance Hankins
MM1 Randy Ivie
MM1 Jared James
MM1 John Kimbler
MM1 Ron Klein
MM1 Wing Ko
MM1 Rufus Manley
MM1 Ryan Mickelson
MM1 Craig Nielsen
MM1 Elec Pryor
MM1 Jeffrey Roberts
MM1 Terry Shuler
MM1 Daniel Sieverin
MM1 Gawain Stern
MM1 Michael Trask
MM1 Russell Tritico
MM1 Kevin Willis
MM1 Garin Wootton

Cindy :)

[Tanya Spence]

Um Terry the first list on this thread is for the people who DID get in, and you ARE on that list. :yay:

Div Name
MM1 David Babuka
MM1 Steve Carson
MM1 John Cloutier
MM1 John Crabtree
MM1 Jeff Elliot
MM1 Birk Ellis
MM1 Steve Erle
MM1 Andy Foster
MM1 Steve Ganz
MM1 Chris Graham
MM1 Lance Hankins
MM1 Randy Ivie
MM1 Jared James
MM1 John Kimbler
MM1 Ron Klein
MM1 Wing Ko
MM1 Rufus Manley
MM1 Ryan Mickelson
MM1 Craig Nielsen
MM1 Elec Pryor
MM1 Jeffrey Roberts
MM1 Terry Shuler
MM1 Daniel Sieverin
MM1 Gawain Stern
MM1 Michael Trask
MM1 Russell Tritico
MM1 Kevin Willis
MM1 Garin Wootton

Cindy :)


Oh my gosh that's hilarious!!! :slapface:

Terry needs to thank you like a million times :bowing:

[Reichard]

We?

Yeah, WEEE!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onHUf3CnOzc

[SMOKIN JOE]

Oh my gosh that's hilarious!!! :slapface:

Terry needs to thank you like a million times :bowing:

Since I hadn't recieved an e-mail I didn't bother to look.
Just thought the Idea of an extra ball was funny.
Still sorry for those who have yet and are not playing.

[Flash]

The event can be lengthened with significantly more volunteers, Entry fees and cooperation from Sponsors and State parks. The cost to rent the park for 1 more day to make this a 4 day event is not a small amount it is quite a bit. Also making the event longer caters to those who are out of work or have flexible work or vacation schedules. The memorial used a 4 day three day schedule and the organizers and sponsors of the Beaver State Fling have not been willing to go this route. More people do not make an event better, the best players in the US do not make an event better. The dedication, attention to detail and willingness of the staff to push an event each year makes an event better.

There is no solution that will make all happy. If you want it to change get involved then your words mean more.

[buckyvania]

Yup. And it breaks my heart to see so many awesome people on it. This is the absolute worst part of the BSF for me. I'd take a work party any day.

We've been playing almost 20 years..is this why we are bringing up the rear on the Grandmasters wait list? Please remove Rick Buttle and Paul Larsom from the waiting list. Thank you.

[Bruce]

My only suggestion/idea for the Am side is this, and I will related it to something I do have experience with. So as far as purchasing hunting tags, take elk for instance, in certain areas you pay to have your name drawn, aka a lottery. For every year you put in for that unit, and your name is not drawn, you build credit. After what is it, 4 years (depending on the area) you are capped out, and will get the tag for that unit. Perhaps, and this is just an idea, for those ams that do put in for the lottery year after year, and do not get in, perhaps something like this could work for them.

Just a thought, and really nobody will ever be happy, but it might make some people happier!

[Sausage Fingers]

We feel like we have gone above and beyond the call of duty for the ladies on this event, including take an entire extra card from MM1.
I hope you all understand.

Jeff H

Even though this decision directly effects my ability to play in this tourney (#4 on MM1 waitlist) I applaud the choice to allow as many women in as possible.:yay:

Now I'm off to cry in my milk and cookies:waaah:

:pirate:

[Matt B.]

We've been playing almost 20 years..is this why we are bringing up the rear on the Grandmasters wait list? Please remove Rick Buttle and Paul Larsom from the waiting list. Thank you.

Yes, that is why.

[Darr]

The event can be lengthened with significantly more volunteers, Entry fees and cooperation from Sponsors and State parks. The cost to rent the park for 1 more day to make this a 4 day event is not a small amount it is quite a bit. Also making the event longer caters to those who are out of work or have flexible work or vacation schedules. The memorial used a 4 day three day schedule and the organizers and sponsors of the Beaver State Fling have not been willing to go this route. More people do not make an event better, the best players in the US do not make an event better. The dedication, attention to detail and willingness of the staff to push an event each year makes an event better.

There is no solution that will make all happy. If you want it to change get involved then your words mean more.

Flash hit it on the head. If all of the people who wish they could play worked 1/2 as hard as the core staff on planning and fundraising...

[Tanya Spence]

Even though this decision directly effects my ability to play in this tourney (#4 on MM1 waitlist) I applaud the choice to allow as many women in as possible.:yay:

Now I'm off to cry in my milk and cookies:waaah:

:pirate:

The support of the ladies in the PDX area is EXACTLY why I drive 3-5 hours 2-3 times a month all season long in order to play in your tournaments. <3

[LegoRules]

Even though this decision directly effects my ability to play in this tourney (#4 on MM1 waitlist) I applaud the choice to allow as many women in as possible.:yay:

Now I'm off to cry in my milk and cookies:waaah:

:pirate:

Jordan you are a peach. :kissflowers:

I have said it before, and I will say it again. We are so fortunate to have such support from the guys in our disc golf community. You guys are one of the main reasons we have some of the largest women's fields in the country.

Thanks you!! :bowing:

[Carie CPink]

Dude, I haven't had a moment to check the Forums (or FB) all day and when I finally get a moment before I go to bed, all I see is a sh!t storm of complaining and negativity.

I haven't had the pleasure to play in the last three BSFs, but I have been a participant through volunteering or being a caddie....

And I had a great time.

That being said, it frustrates me that players want (and expect more) from volunteers who spend hundreds of hours (and I'm sure a lot of out of pocket expenses) for one hell of a weekend of golf.

Thank you BSF TDs, volunteers, sponsors and all of the other entities who make this weekend possible.

You rock. I salute you.

[LJ Jubner]

Maybe if they abandoned Times and went back to pools and shotgun starts

[WestsoundBT]

Outsider perspective(s):

My assessment of this thread has been thats its been more solution-centric than problem-centric, which is encouraging that it seems that most, if not the overwhelming majority, are operating here on the thread in good faith, regardless of their lottery results.

I, would, from my far view love to participate in this event purely based on reputation, testimonials, and video thats out there. Yet based on the uncertainty of entry and how our family needs to plan our time, I did not even enter the lottery.

This suggests that it is good to consider that the true demand pool likely far exceeds the waiting list or lottery entrants.

Thoughts:

- as a small business owner, I do see the benefit (of someone at least) making full use of the demand that exists. It's true, there is a perpetual status benefit of being the "hardest ticket in town to get", but any super surplus then goes to waste (for the area and the sport)

- A great (better than good) outcome is one where the area and sport can capture this demand either in participation, greater fundraising or revenue generation, or in final showcase gallery size. All of these can be a benefit to the BSF event (directly or indirectly) and its organizers if they chose to pursue it.

- That participation (playing as an am) could take the form of an alternative event that sets up those participants more likely (all things being equal) to attend the finals gallery masses at the BSF proper. (BSF, PDGA wins) Player participation in an affiliated event also would benefit the BSF proper by crossover attendance year-after-year and be of benefit to (vendors, sponsors, local business, and the overall "happening" of the weekend)

- That participation could take the form of pool play, as in Kenny B's example. I'm biased and think Kenny's generally good in this area of thought.

- There would be a benefit to recognize going forward that the BSF is an exception to the rule in its demand status, and allow the opening of new provisions for others wishing to utilize this super surplus of player demand. Locally, regionally, nationally, tailor structure exemptions or exempt specific standard non compete regulations to recognize this unique situation.

Any strategizing by people (players) reading this thread should consider:

------------
How would any proposed changes enhance the BSF?
How would it enhance the sport?
How can it do that without additionally burdening the BSF proper team?
-------------

If the core team is where they wish to be and stay, then how could they open themselves to co-partner with others that can satiate the surplus player demand? (win-win)

***the NCAA March basketball tourney is great, but many still come out happy playing and competing in the NIT. Perhaps there could be a NIT to the BSF as part of the overall regional event that could allow players to be able to come back year after year after year after year and build a rock solid attendance tradition - sometimes its playing in the big one, and sometimes its with the secondary... with a stop ins to gallery, perhaps micro-volunteer, visit vendors at the biggie.

That's my thoughts from a distance.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Flash hit it on the head. If all of the people who wish they could play worked 1/2 as hard as the core staff on planning and fundraising...

Dude, I haven't had a moment to check the Forums (or FB) all day and when I finally get a moment before I go to bed, all I see is a sh!t storm of complaining and negativity.

I haven't had the pleasure to play in the last three BSFs, but I have been a participant through volunteering or being a caddie....

And I had a great time.

That being said, it frustrates me that players want (and expect more) from volunteers who spend hundreds of hours (and I'm sure a lot of out of pocket expenses) for one hell of a weekend of golf.

Thank you BSF TDs, volunteers, sponsors and all of the other entities who make this weekend possible.

You rock. I salute you.

The event can be lengthened with significantly more volunteers, Entry fees and cooperation from Sponsors and State parks. The cost to rent the park for 1 more day to make this a 4 day event is not a small amount it is quite a bit. Also making the event longer caters to those who are out of work or have flexible work or vacation schedules. The memorial used a 4 day three day schedule and the organizers and sponsors of the Beaver State Fling have not been willing to go this route. More people do not make an event better, the best players in the US do not make an event better. The dedication, attention to detail and willingness of the staff to push an event each year makes an event better.

There is no solution that will make all happy. If you want it to change get involved then your words mean more.


Best three post on this entire thread!!!!!!!!


Bob:rockon:

[OkieinOR]

24th on MM1 Waitlist. At least this year I will get to experience the real cog of the BSF. Email sent to Murray!

And Jeff and Jeff, thanks for all you do. I was amazed at how quickly you posted both the lottery results and the waitlists. You guys are amazing.

Todd

[emmarose]

... thanks, todd, for reminding everyone in this community that what we really meant was "thank you so much for running one of the best dang events in the world and aren't we lucky to get to experience it however it plays out? ... competing, volunteering, caddying or spectating... and we are also so incredibly lucky to have one of the most amazing and pleasurable disc golf courses in the world on which to hold the previously mentioned bad ass tournament. and isn't it remarkable how much time and effort is put in by these selfless people who run the thing and organize every teeny tiny detail purely because they lovelovelove this sport?! thank you thank you thank you to everyone involved... none of us could do a better job than you all!!!"


that's what we all meant.

and p.s. isn't it incredible how many people lust after playing this event and isn't that a positive statement of everything that is good and wonderful and exceptional regarding oregon disc golf?

[J Monette]

Cari CPink,

I'm sorry you have mistaken our posts for a sh@tstorm of negativity and complaining. In truth the people that are posting here (for the most part) love this tournament, what it represents, and the dedication of the TD's, volunteers, and organizers who put it together. I joined the conversation on this forum in hopes that together we could improve this tournament not detract from it or b%$ch at people like flash because I didn't get in.

Your attempt to dismiss our entire conversation by basically saying that the TD's and volunteers spend a lot of time on this, the innuendo being that the people on the forum don't, is insane to me. The people on this forum are generally the most involved in progressing the sport of disc golf in the Pacific Northwest. We have the added benefit of having the TD's for this tournament directly involved in the conversation on this thread.

Flash,

Thank you for all you do. I'm there are more subtleties than the forum users know about. If you would like to try and expand the tournament for next year and/or need extra help in the planning phases please let me know. I am located in Seattle now, but I'm sure there is some way I could help out.

[Flash]

Cari CPink,

I'm sorry you have mistaken our posts for a sh@tstorm of negativity and complaining. In truth the people that are posting here (for the most part) love this tournament, what it represents, and the dedication of the TD's, volunteers, and organizers who put it together. I joined the conversation on this forum in hopes that together we could improve this tournament not detract from it or b%$ch at people like flash because I didn't get in.

Your attempt to dismiss our entire conversation by basically saying that the TD's and volunteers spend a lot of time on this, the innuendo being that the people on the forum don't, is insane to me. The people on this forum are generally the most involved in progressing the sport of disc golf in the Pacific Northwest. We have the added benefit of having the TD's for this tournament directly involved in the conversation on this thread.

Flash,

Thank you for all you do. I'm there are more subtleties than the forum users know about. If you would like to try and expand the tournament for next year and/or need extra help in the planning phases please let me know. I am located in Seattle now, but I'm sure there is some way I could help out.

Jeff,

I appreciate the offer but this show is no longer mine to control. Jeff Mittl and Jeff Hagerty are the head honchos now. I agree that not utilizing the demand is a sad thing but having to raise the cost of entry to cover the costs of extending the event seem somewhat unfair for the average amateur.
The professionals pay more, but the result is a better payout. Amateurs are treated to a fair and balanced players pack and enough scrip to make the win exciting but not on par with a pro payout. Money has never been the drive to improve the amateur side of the event. So not wanting to raise the entry fee will result in lowering the bounty for the amateur side. As much as people say they don't care about their prizes they sure complain when its less then they expected.

[OneDarkRebel]

As #107 on the AM1 wait list, I'm DANG EXCITED that Oregon, and Peeps I know, host the most demanded tournament on either the PRO or AM side of Disc Golf...IN THE ENTIRE WORLD that dictates entry rules exceptions from the PDGA and still creates absolute pandemonium by those who have or haven't gotten in!! The Beaver State Fling creates a fervor, and perhaps is a fervor, within disc golf which innately makes disc golfers want to disc golf!!!! I LOVE IT AND I LOVE THAT ENTHUSIASM FOR THE SPORT FROM EVERYONE AND I LOVE DISC GOLF AND I LOVE BEING A PART OF IT IN OREGON!!!

[Toby Puttzinski]

You know it's a great event when scrolling down the registration/waiting list is exciting. The only other time I've been #72 on a waiting list was at the DMV, and I have to say this was a much better experience.
I can see having just as much fun as a spectator/volunteer for this event, while sneaking in the occassional round. I was lucky enough to play my first BSF last year, but 70 something on the wait list has me hoping some blessed soul sets up a tourney at Timber that same weekend.(or how about a mini doubles tourney on Gawain's course- that'd be a hoot)

I would disagree Bob, and say that WestsoundBT should be awarded 'best post of thread', based soley on contribution to the discussion at hand.

[loki]

I was lucky enough to play my first BSF last year, but 70 something on the wait list has me hoping some blessed soul sets up a tourney at Timber that same weekend.

I was seriously thinking about running a tournament at timber for all the disappointed players. My only concern was that it may take away volunteers from the BSF.

[Scott]

I was lucky enough to play my first BSF last year, but 70 something on the wait list has me hoping some blessed soul sets up a tourney at Timber that same weekend.

I was seriously thinking about running a tournament at timber for all the disappointed players. My only concern was that it may take away volunteers from the BSF.

You don't have to play in the BSF to experience the BSF. Not only would an alternate tourney prevent you from volunteering, you would also miss out on the tourney central festival atmosphere, watching and mingling with the best players in the world, and every thing else that goes along with the greatest tournament in the world.

And don't forget, you can party like a rock star on Saturday night without worrying about playing like crap the next morning because you're hung over. :chug::chug::biggrin2:

I've played in four flings and volunteered for the first time last year (by choice - I didn't register for the lottery). Without a doubt, last year was the most enjoyable for me by far. (of course we all get something different out of competing ing tournaments - your results may vary)

[NWDiscer]

I was seriously thinking about running a tournament at timber for all the disappointed players. My only concern was that it may take away volunteers from the BSF.

I wonder how many BSF players go to Timber for warmups before their rounds?

["Over the Hill" Bob]

You know it's a great event when scrolling down the registration/waiting list is exciting. The only other time I've been #72 on a waiting list was at the DMV, and I have to say this was a much better experience.
I can see having just as much fun as a spectator/volunteer for this event, while sneaking in the occassional round. I was lucky enough to play my first BSF last year, but 70 something on the wait list has me hoping some blessed soul sets up a tourney at Timber that same weekend.(or how about a mini doubles tourney on Gawain's course- that'd be a hoot)

I would disagree Bob, and say that WestsoundBT should be awarded 'best post of thread', based soley on contribution to the discussion at hand.

While I was typing mine his was posted. I agree, great post!

Bob

[EnigmaSquad]

Outsider perspective(s):

***the NCAA March basketball tourney is great, but many still come out happy playing and competing in the NIT. Perhaps there could be a NIT to the BSF as part of the overall regional event that could allow players to be able to come back year after year after year after year and build a rock solid attendance tradition - sometimes its playing in the big one, and sometimes its with the secondary... with a stop ins to gallery, perhaps micro-volunteer, visit vendors at the biggie.

That's my thoughts from a distance.

I had these same thoughts and while I am not in a position to do it this year, I would strongly consider pitching in to create some sort of NIT in future years.... Although I agree that I do not want to take volunteers away from the BSF in order to fill a tourney.

[Toby Puttzinski]

How about the possibility of a one day event at Timber? I don't think that would take away from the volunteer pool too much, and ultimately it could perhaps get more spectators out to Milo. For me, this would make it that much more worthwhile to travel down there to spectate & volunteer a few hours.

[Carie CPink]

[QUOTE=J Monette;118157]Cari CPink,

I'm sorry you have mistaken our posts for a sh@tstorm of negativity and complaining. In truth the people that are posting here (for the most part) love this tournament, what it represents, and the dedication of the TD's, volunteers, and organizers who put it together. I joined the conversation on this forum in hopes that together we could improve this tournament not detract from it or b%$ch at people like flash because I didn't get in.

Your attempt to dismiss our entire conversation by basically saying that the TD's and volunteers spend a lot of time on this, the innuendo being that the people on the forum don't, is insane to me. The people on this forum are generally the most involved in progressing the sport of disc golf in the Pacific Northwest. We have the added benefit of having the TD's for this tournament directly involved in the conversation on this thread


Dear Jeff M,

Wow, I must have been wearing my tightest snarky pants the evening I wrote this (dis)missal. And reading your response further strengthened my opinion. Being a VERY proactive member of the Portland disc golf scene (charter secretary of Stumptown Disc golf club, TD of the first two Chick Flick Tournaments, Open Women's player, and running various disc golf clinics for both kids and adults), I feel that I have seen and experienced the development and growth of this sport in Oregon. I'm not making potshots or dismissing the "discussions" with little or no reflection. These discussions would have been much more proactive if done before the lottery or after the event. the TDs have been extremely transparent throughout the process...no surprises. The "discussion " has revolved around those not getting in.

If all the people you said that are running tournaments, volunteering, participating in work parties, then We should having a lot more tournaments. Personally, I thought your response to my voice of dissent was equally insane. And yes, i am saying that not enough people volunteer and contribute. There, I said it. I have been a long time member of this community trying to build the sport and feel comfortable saying this. Have I contributed as much as i have in the past? No, because of other commitments, much like other people. However, in the nine years i have played disc golf competively, it a small percentage that shoulder most of the responsiblity. And it frustrates me to no end to see TDs receive endless scrutiny and feedback for a volunteer position.

Start compensating TDs for the work they do and let's elevate the conversation.

Sincerely,

Carie Coleman
PDGA Member #31366

Ps...sorry in advance for any typographical or grammetical errors. I'm writing this on my way over to Bend. Don't worry, I'm not driving.

[Carie CPink]

P.S. We need less idea people and more doers. Let's do this PNWers! We have a great scene going on. We are only as strong as our collective efforts.

[WestsoundBT]

Conversation at Milo 2015

"
Dude, great to see you man, hows it going? I didn't know you guys were coming this year.

-- No worries, like we'd miss this thing. c'mon, you know we've been coming for the last 5 years straight. We're even staying at the same [campground][Hotel] as always.

So - you got in the Fling this year?

-- Naw, didn't get the lottery, I'm playing in the B.S.. (Fundraiser). No worries, it's still a great time.

Cool, so you'll be playing some...that's cool. Too bad you'll miss out on the BSF player pack - you should see whats in mine this year.

-- No, I am getting one. Everyone in the fundraiser ends up with the same player pack you're getting. They source them the same. The "Fundraiser" is trophy only, but you know its raising money for [big recognizable name charity]. Plus the schedule is lighter, so I'm here now free to check out the scene here at Milo and I think I'm going to buy a sweet new bag from the vendors over there. I also signed up to spot or help out during the finals gallery thing.

Cool, great to see you - best of luck playing in the fundraiser. I'll try to hold my own in advanced. Hey maybe next year you'll get into the big show and I'll be the one over at the 'raiser. Are you coming to our usual dinner outing tonight after the putting contest?

-- Wouldn't miss it! Remember I told ya we're staying at the same place as [I]every year - But you know, by being in the fundraiser I'm eligible to enter the distance comp and putting contest, right? Not that I'd have a chance at the distance comp, but I think I'll try out the putting since I've been putting hot lately.

Cool - see ya later. Text me when your round is done tomorrow, maybe you can come over and caddy for me... yeah, like you'd do that... hoser.

-- Take 'off eh(?).

-------------------
(What, I didn't mention these two guys come all the way down from Canada to play the BSF each year because its that cool?)

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Conversation at Milo 2015

"
Dude, great to see you man, hows it going? I didn't know you guys were coming this year.

-- No worries, like we'd miss this thing. c'mon, you know we've been coming for the last 5 years straight. We're even staying at the same [campground][Hotel] as always.

So - you got in the Fling this year?

-- Naw, didn't get the lottery, I'm playing in the B.S.. (Fundraiser). No worries, it's still a great time.

Cool, so you'll be playing some...that's cool. Too bad you'll miss out on the BSF player pack - you should see whats in mine this year.

-- No, I am getting one. Everyone in the fundraiser ends up with the same player pack you're getting. They source them the same. The "Fundraiser" is trophy only, but you know its raising money for [big recognizable name charity]. Plus the schedule is lighter, so I'm here now free to check out the scene here at Milo and I think I'm going to buy a sweet new bag from the vendors over there. I also signed up to spot or help out during the finals gallery thing.

Cool, great to see you - best of luck playing in the fundraiser. I'll try to hold my own in advanced. Hey maybe next year you'll get into the big show and I'll be the one over at the 'raiser. Are you coming to our usual dinner outing tonight after the putting contest?

-- Wouldn't miss it! Remember I told ya we're staying at the same place as [I]every year - But you know, by being in the fundraiser I'm eligible to enter the distance comp and putting contest, right? Not that I'd have a chance at the distance comp, but I think I'll try out the putting since I've been putting hot lately.

Cool - see ya later. Text me when your round is done tomorrow, maybe you can come over and caddy for me... yeah, like you'd do that... hoser.

-- Take 'off eh(?).

-------------------
(What, I didn't mention these two guys come all the way down from Canada to play the BSF each year because its that cool?)

:confused:??????????????????:confused:???????????? ???????:confused:

Bob

[Wes Hansen]

When will AMs start registering? When will the 2 week window end?
I'm planning on refreshing my browser every couple hours between open and close so I can see if any old guys forget to sign up.

[Aware]

Does anyone know how many off the wait list in MA1 got in last year?

[pdxdiscer]

:confused:??????????????????:confused:???????????? ???????:confused:

Bob
His above post fleshed out the happy end result of an additional dedicated TD, organizer, compromiser, quality centric type with some local cred leading an enlarged pool of dedicated volunteers to make the below happen for reals within the next three summers
I think:wink2:
***the NCAA March basketball tourney is great, but many still come out happy playing and competing in the NIT. Perhaps there could be a NIT to the BSF as part of the overall regional event that could allow players to be able to come back year after year after year after year and build a rock solid attendance tradition - sometimes its playing in the big one, and sometimes its with the secondary... with a stop ins to gallery, perhaps micro-volunteer, visit vendors at the biggie.

[Kenny B]

Does anyone know how many off the wait list in MA1 got in last year?

I have a friend who was nearly 20 on the wait list and did eventually get in.

[mine all mine]

I was 19 on the wait list last year and got in...fingers crossed, I'm 16 on the wait list this year

[WestsoundBT]

Yes, my previous "future conversation at Milo 2015" is what one could call an envisioning the end result exercise.

It's easier and more effective to really lay out where you want to end up before you start hacking through a jungle of changes. The next step once you figure out the end point is to work out the steps and pathway to get there. (of course, if its not where you want to go, then it wasn't the ideal endpoint to begin with)

If this floated idea of an outcome is predicated on having a great competent and dedicated TD, organizer, compromiser, quality-centric type with some local cred(PDXdiscer).... ...and the region around the BSF doesn't have that beyond whos willing to be involved now... well, maybe I should have made it 2025, and given the Milo community another ten years to find one. :wink2: The person that becomes the leader of any secondary event would likely make a great future step-in candidate for the BSF proper if one was ever needed (due to burnout, frustration, life circumstances..) - Again, if a secondary trophy-only low cost to operate option is not right for you, then apply the same concept to what you do want.

The time just before a big event is the perfect time to look at change, not for the current year, but for the future. This way, everyone involved really really sees those discussions as they walk through the current year. It becomes plainly obvious where one or more the new ideas would have fit in nicely. After or away from the event, you lose a sense of reference. (unless you debiref immediately)

[Bullseye]

The Call for BSF Volunteers (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8838)

[Wes Hansen]

When will AMs start registering? When will the 2 week window end?
I'm planning on refreshing my browser every couple hours between open and close so I can see if any old guys forget to sign up.

...

[juda4936]

The Call for BSF Volunteers (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8838)

Have the emails gone out yet for the Fling? I just don't want to miss out

[Bullseye]

Have the emails gone out yet for the Fling? I just don't want to miss out

Not yet, but should be very soon. As in: today or tomorrow.

[juda4936]

Not yet, but should be very soon. As in: today or tomorrow.

AWESOME!!!!:yay: :rockon:

I hated to even ask, but I was getting worried.
You guys are the best, thanks :cheers:

[jcrab66]

email just arrived!

[Bullseye]

email just arrived!

Yes, it is true. All invitations have been sent, so check your inboxes, spam-folders, etc...

Your 2 weeks to register starts NOW!

PLEASE don't call me asking for more time. I have 150 people who don't need more time... if ya know what I'm sayin.

Thank you all for making the Beaver State Fling awesome!

[aksargon14]

Do I need to pass the officials exam before I can register? I didn't think I had to even have passed the test for an A-Tier? I'm in MA1 hence the A-Tier.

[jcrab66]

no officials exam required for A Tier

[Bullseye]

That should be gone now. It was a remnant of the Pro template. If not, just click yes and don't fret none.

[Wog]

It's not mandatory for Supertour (A Tier) events. It is no longer mandatory to check the box in order to check out.

Steve
4DiscGolf.com Administrator

[mowens404]

Is monday the 30th the last day to register? Or is that the first day of being too late? (Not getting paid until the 30th.)

[Jason Philips]

Is monday the 30th the last day to register? Or is that the first day of being too late? (Not getting paid until the 30th.)



I am guessing if you got your email today that you have until the 30th

Yes, it is true. All invitations have been sent, so check your inboxes, spam-folders, etc...

Your 2 weeks to register starts NOW!

PLEASE don't call me asking for more time. I have 150 people who don't need more time... if ya know what I'm sayin.

Thank you all for making the Beaver State Fling awesome!

[LegoRules]

I was wondering if the T-shirt sizes are just men's cut, or if there are women's cut too? It makes a difference as to what size I click on when registering.

Thanks,
Cindy :)

[leefou]

So what does the MPO waitlist look like?

[Bullseye]

So what does the MPO waitlist look like?

Lee,

I've been out of town all weekend, and I also needed to wait for the 970+ window to close. I'll have something posted shortly, but I gotta do my taxes first. :headbang:

Trust me, I'd rather deal with the wait list. :biggrin2:

Jeff

[chris7graham]

I am guessing if you got your email today that you have until the 30th

If you got one I did not get one even though I won lottery

[chris7graham]

If you got one I did not get one even though I won lottery

Chris Graham<-------:yawn: It would help if I gave them my EMAIL ADDRESS
:pullhair::pullhair::angry:

[leefou]

MPO is closed right? I assumed it was full since it said "0 - Registration Suspended".

[Bullseye]

MPO is closed right? I assumed it was full since it said "0 - Registration Suspended".

Yes. The event is full. Any additions to registration list will be due to someone else dropping out.

Jeff

[Nichola]

I was wondering if the T-shirt sizes are just men's cut, or if there are women's cut too? It makes a difference as to what size I click on when registering.

Thanks,
Cindy :)

Me, too. Thanks!!

[LegoRules]

Me, too. Thanks!!

I emailed the Jeff. He said they were going to try to get ladies cut, so choose the size as if it were ladies sizing.

Cindy :)

[Serniotti]

Yes, it is true. All invitations have been sent, so check your inboxes, spam-folders, etc...

Your 2 weeks to register starts NOW!

PLEASE don't call me asking for more time. I have 150 people who don't need more time... if ya know what I'm sayin.

Thank you all for making the Beaver State Fling awesome!


are people really asking for more time? That just seems hilarious to me

and to the Jeffs, Thank you all for making the Beaver State Fling awesome!
and that statement comes from someone 89th on the waitlist.

[Bullseye]

72 Ams are paid up already. 72 to go!

[Bullseye]

84 Ams are paid up already. That means there are 60 players who have just ONE WEEK to get registered or they will NOT be playing in the Fling.

I've been posting the registration status updates pretty regularly, so "I had no idea" will not be a valid argument :)

PLEASE get your registrations in... I hate being the bad guy, but I am still willing to be that guy.

Jeff

[Sally W]

84 Ams are paid up already. That means there are 60 players who have just ONE WEEK to get registered or they will NOT be playing in the Fling.

I've been posting the registration status updates pretty regularly, so "I had no idea" will not be a valid argument :)

PLEASE get your registrations in... I hate being the bad guy, but I am still willing to be that guy.

Jeff

Payday = BSF registration day! come on Wednesday!!!

[Reichard]

That means there are 60 players who have just ONE WEEK to get registered or they will NOT be playing in the Fling.

Sweet, I still have a chance!!!

:jumpspin:

[chris7graham]

getting money this week:cheerleader:

[Jason Philips]

Sweet, I still have a chance!!!

:jumpspin:

It is a nice thought isn't it?

I wonder how many people were in the lottery that are not going to attend due to friends not getting in (Or loved ones) and haven't let anyone know. Just a curious question.

[Sally W]

Registered! Wahoo! :yay:

[Bullseye]

Hey everyone,

We currently have 102 Amateurs completely paid up. That means there are 42 players who will be crying in their PBR on Monday if they have not completed their registration by the end of the day on Sunday.

I've been posting the registration status updates regularly, and I sent every single person who is still pending a FINAL NOTICE email this morning, so if you miss out... It's no one's fault but your own!

PLEASE get your registrations in... You all know how I hate being the bearer of bad news, but it sure makes it a lot easier when I call that next person on the wait list and give them YOUR spot.

Jeff

[murray the brit]

And don't forget if you don't get in or don't get paid up you can Still volunteer :biggrin2:

[CMC206]

Thanks Jeff! I just paid up!

[Huk'nGeiks]

Bring on the wait list!

[chris7graham]

All sign-up now I am so happy:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::yay: :nahnah:

[jcrab66]

wow, if the current pdga reg list is correct it looks like about 10 more will becoming off the MM1 wait list, congrats to those guys!

[Simmeltron]

So yesterday was the last day to register and not today?

[NWDiscer]

So yesterday was the last day to register and not today?



THIS IS YOUR FINAL NOTICE!

Register Now!

Please Note: You have until Tuesday May 1st to complete your registration, after which time your slot is permanently forfeited and we will give your spot to the next person on the waitlist.

Please understand that we have over 150 people on the waiting list for this event, so please do not delay in registering.

[mine all mine]

Hey everyone,

We currently have 102 Amateurs completely paid up. That means there are 42 players who will be crying in their PBR on Monday if they have not completed their registration by the end of the day on Sunday.

I've been posting the registration status updates regularly, and I sent every single person who is still pending a FINAL NOTICE email this morning, so if you miss out... It's no one's fault but your own!

PLEASE get your registrations in... You all know how I hate being the bearer of bad news, but it sure makes it a lot easier when I call that next person on the wait list and give them YOUR spot.

Jeff
um...I think the registration ended last night.

[Sam]

Now you get to be the bearer of good news, Hagerty. What's your final count look like for this thing?

[Simmeltron]

um...I think the registration ended last night.

Ok, it was just a bit confusing considering the initial invite email said 14 days from April 16. I calculate that as April 30.

And my final notice said: Tuesday, May 1st.

Just trying to understand what the real deal is.

[mine all mine]

Ok, it was just a bit confusing considering the initial invite email said 14 days from April 16. I calculate that as April 30.

And my final notice said: Tuesday, May 1st.

Just trying to understand what the real deal is.

Then, I have no clue. But I will add that if I had made the lottery I would have registered the second I got the e-mail by any means necessary instead of wondering when the last moment is to sign up...

[NWDiscer]

Then, I have no clue. But I will add that if I had made the lottery I would have registered the second I got the e-mail by any means necessary instead of wondering when the last moment is to sign up...

my email came on the 17th

[Simmeltron]

Then, I have no clue. But I will add that if I had made the lottery I would have registered the second I got the e-mail by any means necessary instead of wondering when the last moment is to sign up...

You have your reasons and I have mine. Both are valid. In the end, I'm sure it will all pan out. Players lucky enough to be selected in the lottery that registered are a lucky bunch and the WL players who are able to make it in are an even luckier bunch. :cheers:

[Bullseye]

Ok, it was just a bit confusing considering the initial invite email said 14 days from April 16. I calculate that as April 30.

And my final notice said: Tuesday, May 1st.

Just trying to understand what the real deal is.

My initial invitation to register email had the correct date on it. Yes, when I decided to send a second, courtesy FINAL NOTICE warning email, it had had an error on the date, which is why I sent a corrected email about an hour later. The last day to pay up is tonight.

My apologies for the confusion, but honestly... it should not have taken a second email to get people to register in the first place.

Jeff

[mine all mine]

My apologies for the confusion, but honestly... it should not have taken a second email to get people to register in the first place.

Jeff

Seconded

[Sam]

OK... NOW we need an update. :)

[prospect]

OK... NOW we need an update. :)

Seconded....:biggrin2:

[Jason Philips]

Any new updatees on the waitlist?

[Bullseye]

Any new updatees on the waitlist?

I update the original posts every time there is a change.

[Bullseye]

FYI: There have been considerably fewer drops this year, so if you're not amongst the top one or two names on the wait list, it is highly unlikely that you'll be getting in.

[Jason Philips]

Awesome, thank you. Looked like there hadn't been an update for a while so I wanted to ask. Appreciate the work you are doing.

[Mayumoogy]

Wow, from 12 to 17 in a single bound! 21 is starting to look a bit more plausible! Please let my dreams come true!

[TreeLove]

Just so I understand how this works: if it says INVITED, then the player is in if they want to be, right? So Crist Garcia is in if he wants to be? And has been since May 10th (latest post edit)? Then what has Zimmerman been talking about?

[NWDiscer]

Just so I understand how this works: if it says INVITED, then the player is in if they want to be, right? So Crist Garcia is in if he wants to be? And has been since May 10th (latest post edit)? Then what has Zimmerman been talking about?

well they both have a tee time.......