Disc Golf (Vs.?) And The Gay Community

[sillybizz]

I am a Gay Man and also a long time Disc Golfer but something has been bothering me for quite some time but I've never really spoke about it openly and honestly before and I'm getting older and I've just stopped caring what people think of me or my opinions. (:)) It seems like there is a tension between the two communities, I mean one of the big reasons in the beginning of how they got new courses (and still today but maybe less) was the promise of Disc Golf designers moving the cruisers (Gay Men) out of their parks. I've had 'old school' local players not only tell me this in person but boast about it.

I look at web pages like the one here (http://thegayshangout.blogspot.com/2010/02/discers-v-limp-wristers.html) and it hurts my soul to see this but I understand their feelings about it and a lot of it I agree with. My Gay friends can't believe it when they find out that I play the sport, it's like I just told them I don't love Lady Gaga or something. Seriously though they think I'm crazy. Now I've never had much issue being a Gay Man in the Disc Golf community other than a couple of people not being able to look me in the eye or telling me they love 'vagina' every four seconds just in case I forget I suppose, nothing I can't handle. Even on our own forums here (which is largely a liberal group if you don't mind me saying) we have homophobic comments such as in this thread (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4053)

Now I'm not saying that people should be able to do sexual acts in public but it does seem like Gay Men are over targeted most of the time. I've actually seen more straight couples in our parks 'messing around' more than I've seen Gay Men. At this day in age I believe that everyone should be able to come of the closet and not have to resort to cruising in the parks anymore but again like I said there are just as many straight couples out there doing things and Straight people are never targeted. It does seem like there is still that 'old school' element hanging around and maybe some new conservative anti-Gay sentiment creeping in I don't know.

[Adam Schneider]

I think the perception (if not the reality?) is that when parks are used for clandestine hookups with strangers, it's usually only men who are involved, and for obvious reasons: women tend not to hang around in isolated woods by themselves! I'd like to think that for most citizens, the objection is to the activities taking place, not the gender of the participants.

[Wes Hansen]

Silly,
The DBs in the thread you mentioned... you don't really count them as people who count do you?
Is it (gay bashing- lightly or otherwise) really an issue in the DG community? I'll defer to whatever your answer is....
As evidenced by the thread you pointed out- it was only a couple of barely literate folks that would say such stupid things. Sure, a few is to many, but breeding is an inexact science.

But why can't gay people believe you play DG?
(I had 2 or 3 good jokes to place here, but I wasn't sure if every one would get that they were jokes. One was about the way DGers dressed, another about sweat and the last about the fact that 90+% of DGers are male.)
As a matter of fact, if most DGers weren't so damn ugly and dress so poorly, wouldn't most courses just look a bunch of gay men following each other around in the woods?
(I had to try a joke.)
What brought this thread on now? Aside from the 2 year old thread you linked?

I know that new DG courses can often help alleviate "undesirable" behavior in parks, but I hear about criminal activities and homeless camping, not stopping gay men from "cruising."

Oh- and who are you hanging out with when you play? Sounds like vagina hounds.

[DanD]

Thanks for having the courage to say something. There are idiots in every community, glad a few in ours haven't ruined it for you.

[sillybizz]

Silly,
The DBs in the thread you mentioned... you don't really count them as people who count do you?
Is it (gay bashing- lightly or otherwise) really an issue in the DG community? I'll defer to whatever your answer is....
As evidenced by the thread you pointed out- it was only a couple of barely literate folks that would say such stupid things. Sure, a few is to many, but breeding is an inexact science.

I wouldn't say outright homophobia it's more subtle than that, like passive aggressive I guess you could say at least in my experience. I'm not saying poor me or something like that, the vast majority of disc golfers are really cool to me. I know there are other LGBT players that might have had a different experience than me, in fact I can think of a friend of mine who is a local Transgendered player who has had dealt with a lot of crap. Others might say that they've felt none, I can only speak for me.

But why can't gay people believe you play DG?

I tell them I play and the reaction is usually "seriously?" although there are quite a few that have tried it but just aren't addicted like the rest of us crazies here. :)

What brought this thread on now? Aside from the 2 year old thread you linked?

Something I've been thinking about recently. Some people don't believe things sometimes so I wanted to link to something that helped me out. I think the internet is probably the biggest outlet for these types of people. Most of them would never say things like that to a person's face and being anonymous on the internet helps you grow balls. :)

Oh- and who are you hanging out with when you play? Sounds like vagina hounds.

It's happened a couple of times at tournaments when people have to play a round with me. That and having to work weekends has made want to stop playing tournaments sadly

[sillybizz]

I think the perception (if not the reality?) is that when parks are used for clandestine hookups with strangers, it's usually only men who are involved, and for obvious reasons: women tend not to hang around in isolated woods by themselves! I'd like to think that for most citizens, the objection is to the activities taking place, not the gender of the participants.

Straight couple messing around in the park: "Look at those crazy kids in love, hahaha"

Gay couple messing around in the park: "We need to get rid of the disgusting homosexuals who are performing lewd sex acts in our public parks"

You know that's how it goes most of the time.

[sillybizz]

I'm really glad I've brought these issues up as they never do come up and it's important for people to think about and discuss the many issues I've brought to light here.

[General Scales]

I know here in Spokane the deep bush off 18 at Highbridge is called the Gay Bush. Which earned it's name through prostitution for drug use and money.

I can't say that I haven't heard a lot of derogatory comments directed at the homosexual community while disc golfing. Then again, I've heard lots of derogatory comments towards the homosexual community while shopping for bread.

I believe it's a fear of things that people don't understand. With that being said, I have issues with anyone doing lewd acts in public places. Especially when it's to support drug habits and bad spending.

Although if the senate and congress got out and started pleasuring the nation one penis or vagina at a time, we might have an American public that was happy about being hit in the tail pipe with no lube.

I didn't realize that disc golf was being targeted as an anti-homosexual group. That does not bode well for those of us trying to legitimize the sport.

[Adam Schneider]

Gay couple messing around in the park: "We need to get rid of the disgusting homosexuals who are performing lewd sex acts in our public parks"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the objection is not to "couples" having a picnic.

[sillybizz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the objection is not to "couples" having a picnic.

No my point was that if it's two Gay men messing around in public it's looked at completely different than a Man and Woman messing around in public.

[Adam Schneider]

No my point was that if it's two Gay men messing around in public it's looked at completely different than a Man and Woman messing around in public.
Yes, that's true; I'm just trying to say that what happens deep in the brush isn't typically "a couple messing around in public." I don't think people are happy to see their local park used by heterosexual cruisers either!

[Rakoz]

that people are making sexuality an issue in disc golf. That is just one more thing to add to the list of hurdles to overcome before we're considered a legitimate sport.

Illegal activity in any park that is used primarily (or even secondarily) for disc golf is going to get disc golf negative attention: littering, public urination, smoking pot, open container laws in public parks, and certainly indecent exposure (no matter the gender/sexuality/biological parts shown) are good ways to get a course or a park shut down and that is not in the best interest of the DG community. All of these activities have legal consequences attached to them and should be left at home for the betterment of all of our parks (disc golf or not).

Please keep in mind that homophobia and many "values" judgements would occur if the individuals were playing disc golf, hiking, ball golfing, playing baseball, or having a picnic... it has not been my experience that discgolfers are anymore homophobic than others. It's not right but like someone else already said "people are scared of the things that are different".

Thanks for having the courage to speak up and inform your fellow discgolfers of this issue. Awareness and education are the "different" peoples best friend.

[Wes Hansen]

I've just heard about a couple of Pro DGers who are gay, so you are not alone out there Silly.
I think this topic is a parallel to the T. Martin thread in many ways.
it would be nice to tell you that the opinions of racists/homophobes don't matter, but because they sometimes act out violently we are forced to pay attention to their DBery.
Frankly, as someone NOT faced with prejudice, what drives me crazy are the "aware" folks who display no outward signs of homophobia/sexism/racism yet allow others to display their prejudices without speaking out against it. If you don't try to stop it (by speaking up) then you are part of the problem.

On a lighter note- I prefer not to see anyone having sex in the woods- and in nearly 50 years, never have. I've seen enough naked people to know most people don't look as good with their clothes off. Is this REALLY something folks encounter at their local DG course?

The simple fact is humans, and many other animals, are bisexual. Just like all races of humans originated from "black" races.

That's right- every one of you is part gay and black. Doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?

[General Scales]

I thought I was part gay Eskimo. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ol' Bob]

I'm worried about the numbers of monosexuals who are showing up on the courses these days.

[Wes Hansen]

I believe the original poster started the thread because he felt discriminated against.
The way people approach the topic says a lot about their attitude towards gay people.

[Parks]

I think Adam hit the nail on the head with the first response in the thread.

Silly, I wanted to let you know that I totally love vagina. And although I can't look you in the eyes when I talk to you, its nothing personal.

[Denny]

Dude, let me assure you that NO ONE worth knowing in the disc golf community gives ONE SHIT about who your having sex with, as long as it's not a minor.

:pullhair:

That was the most ridiculous article I have ever read in my life!!!

"The overwhelming support to put our nation's openly gay on the front line may just be disc golf's conspiratorial attempt at a legal form of execution, leaving the dirty work to our enemy combatants"

The person who wrote this is fucking crazy

You posting this and reacting to it like it holds any credence in reality
HURTS MY SOUL

[Wes Hansen]

I missed the first link the first time around. I only saw the thread link.
That type of BS writing isn't about anything.
A blog is like reading a degenerate's journal.
It's creepy, but I don't think anyone of even modest intelligence would take crap like that to heart.

[Denny]

"My Gay friends can't believe it when they find out that I play the sport, it's like I just told them I don't love Lady Gaga or something."

How dare you
I bet a lot of gay people out there have good taste in music

[sillybizz]

I believe the original poster started the thread because he felt discriminated against.
The way people approach the topic says a lot about their attitude towards gay people.

QFT

[Joshua Olmsted]

Thanks so much for bringing these issues to the fore Sillybizz, as well as sharing your personal perspective with the forum. While on the whole I love the disc golf community here in the NW, I've definitely met people with homophobic attitudes on the course, and not just among casual players. I'd definitely agree that people will often let their views out more in anonymous and/or private spaces, the most openly anti-LGBT comments I hear usually come in situations where I, for example, join up with a random group of friends on a course, since they are in their own private company (myself excluded) more unfiltered opinions come out than say, 4 random people in a tournament group.

[Denny]

There is no issue to bring to the fore Josh that was just the ravings of a lunatic seeking attention.
(The blogger not you sillybizz)

Of course there are probably homophobic people in the DG community but SO WHAT that's their problem right?

[Wes Hansen]

QFT?

[sillybizz]

QFT?

Sorry - Quoted For Truth. :)

[REDFIVE]

Thomas, I am shocked. I didn't know people actually liked lady gaga.

[Parks]

I think that we should try to put DG courses in places where people group up and listen to Lady Gaga so that they have to find somewhere else to do this unseemly practice.

[REDFIVE]

I do find listening to lady gaga to be more offensive than dudes picking up dudes. Unintended hijack. Even though I only read the first post and nothing more this is what stuck with me.

[sillybizz]

I antcipated some joking, denial and maybe some out right disagreements involving this thread but what I hadn't thought of was the amazing amount of people who have sent me messages on this subject showing their support and courage. I've even already had someone thank me in person for bringing this subject up. There are lots of LGBT Disc Golfers in our sport and I believe it's important for them to know they are not alone and that there is support from other people out there regardless of orientation. We don't have to be quiet and we don't have to be in the closet!

[CMC206]

Like the many colors of the discs in my bag there are many colors in the rainbow. I'm down with all of them.

[emmarose]

... but what about us straight girls who listen to lady gaga?!? what about us? we have a right to be who we want to be and sing super silly lyrics like "gaga ooh-la-la rhumba rhum ba ba"... or however that actually goes...




seriously, tho, thomas... you are very brave and i am very glad that you have gotten the messages you have and i am pleased that the joking on the thread has stuck to just being silly and hasn't taken away from the topic nor demeaned it...

... and as far as discs and all the colors of the rainbow... i do prefer pink... but i love my blue star t-bird as much as my hot pink ittybitty blizzard katana and whatever color disc you may be it's just fine in my bag...

ummm... i apologize for that terrible metaphor... i have to go now and practice my putting...

[CMC206]

You can hear Lady Gaga on the rewindb Radio. Better yet check out all of our interviews on demand. On the right hand sidebar just click under rewind content: DG World Scenario or listen to the entire show. Help us spread the word.. CMC

http://rewindb.com/category/dg-world-scenario/

[Denny]

I would suggest you filter your sources of information a little better before you get all riled up over some BS!

[sillybizz]

I would suggest you filter your sources of information a little better before you get all riled up over some BS!

You keep focusing on that like it's all I ever said. I used it as an example that maybe the sport isn't so kind to LGBT people and that they are noticing. I said some of it I do or could agree with. The issue I've brought to light is that there is homophobia in the sport, it has been there since the beginning and continues to this day. I've felt it, other people have felt it. There are many LGBT players who remain in the closet within the sport for fear of discrimination, I know this because I know some of them and some of them have revealed this to me after I started this thread, many thanking me for being vocal about the subject in which no one else is willing to be vocal about.

You are obviously very ignorant to this problem and likely part of it judging by your posts.

[Mikk]

Realy it would be great if people were more open minded (duh), there are many things we as the human race could be doing besides picking on those who are different. I just don't understand why, generaly speaking, that people single out other people for dumb reasons. We have all seen and done this, ALL of us and realy it just stinks...
and i throw pink discs, does this bother you??

[cefire]

Of course there are probably homophobic people in the DG community but SO WHAT that's their problem right?

I believe the point here is that the problem extends well beyond the border of the bigoted individual...

[cefire]

BTW - isn't this one of the very topics that made Parks interwebz famous:

http://thegayshangout.blogspot.com/2010/02/discers-v-limp-wristers.html

[Denny]

You keep focusing on that like it's all I ever said. I used it as an example that maybe the sport isn't so kind to LGBT people and that they are noticing. I said some of it I do or could agree with. The issue I've brought to light is that there is homophobia in the sport, it has been there since the beginning and continues to this day. I've felt it, other people have felt it. There are many LGBT players who remain in the closet within the sport for fear of discrimination, I know this because I know some of them and some of them have revealed this to me after I started this thread, many thanking me for being vocal about the subject in which no one else is willing to be vocal about.

You are obviously very ignorant to this problem and likely part of it judging by your posts.

Look man, you're going to get homophobia pretty much everywhere you go in this world, and that's an unfortunate reality that I hope we evolve out of as a species. People fear what they don't know or understand or they are locked into a pre programed way of thinking that is just ignorant.

I truly am sorry if you personally have felt any discrimination from the disc golf community ( or anywhere else for that matter) but I have personally found our PNW DG community to be one of the more progressive minded bunch of folks around.

I focused on that blog because if I am to believe that you read that and it "hurt your soul" it would seem to me that you are very impressionable and slightly detached from reality. Also you tend to make sweeping generalizations and assumptions,
HOW DARE YOU call me an ignorant homophobe

You need to find some peace in yourself brother

Try investing in a sense of humor it may keep you from assuming people like me are homophobic and that the disc golf community are out to get gay people.

Again 99.9% of people don't care who you stick your dick in, just be yourself.

[Scott]

Maybe I'm just blind to the issue, but is this really a thing? Yes, I'm sure bigotry exists towards GLBT in disc golf just as it does in all other walks of life.

Are you proposing that there is more bigotry in the disc golf community than in other areas?

[cefire]

I think it pops up more often or perhaps is just more salient in our community because many new courses are started with the parks dept. mindset of getting shenanigans (drug deals, hookups, homeless, hoodie-wearers, etc.) out of the park. This often leads to an "us versus them" mindset which pits disc golfers against others in the struggle for a potential new course - seems like a fairly natural progression by which this mindset could extend beyond the installation date. Not saying it is or isn't the case as I only have anecdotal data, but seems very plausible that this would be more likely in our group compared with others.

[Ol' Bob]

I have probably become an anthrophobe. I fear the way many people think. I just don't understand them.

[Scott]

I think it pops up more often or perhaps is just more salient in our community because many new courses are started with the parks dept. mindset of getting shenanigans (drug deals, hookups, homeless, hoodie-wearers, etc.) out of the park. This often leads to an "us versus them" mindset which pits disc golfers against others in the struggle for a potential new course - seems like a fairly natural progression by which this mindset could extend beyond the installation date. Not saying it is or isn't the case as I only have anecdotal data, but seems very plausible that this would be more likely in our group compared with others.

I've seen disc golf used as a selling point for clearing out homelessness and drug use in a park, but never for homosexuality.

[cefire]

Maybe it is more of an East Coast thing, one of my absolute favorite all-time disc golf courses - Iron Hill (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2737) - was installed for this very reason.

People's Park seems to be another similar example in Washington, although I am not versed in the history or details of that park...

[Simmeltron]

Maybe it is more of an East Coast thing, one of my absolute favorite all-time disc golf courses - Iron Hill (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2737) - was installed for this very reason.

People's Park seems to be another similar example in Washington, although I am not versed in the history or details of that park...

People's park WAS.... it kept being vandalized and buckets destroyed/thrown in the river... I wonder by who? It has now been put on the back burner due to other projects taking priority.

As far as this whole issue goes... I do feel you make some good points silly and I have no problem whatsoever with the GLBT community as a people in general and am against anybody discriminating against them, but I do have major issues with the way they go about "meeting" each other.

You said you have seen more straight couples messing around than gays in public, well I'm sorry but that just isn't true in Spokane. At least as far as the areas on or around our disc golf courses are concerned.

High Bridge (and People's Park when it was active) is the prime example. This area has long been known and proven to be a gay meetup spot for "crusiers" as you put it. Well as another has said, this is not something practiced by men and women looking to hook up. I play a lot of evening and night golf at High Bridge. And I can attest that as disc golfers begin to clear out, others quickly move in. The VERY poor road running through High Bridge park has ZERO reason to be driven on other than to access the park. Well people drive that thing nonstop in the evening hours into the night. I can't help but see that it is virtually entirely men driving back and forth back and forth. Huh. I find it quite humorous and sad at the same time. There is no denying that this is a place to look for drugs and/or sex. This is not ok. I am trying to get my family and young niece and nephew involved in this awesome sport and I sadly do not feel comfortable taking them to several of the places I love.

I personally have been approached by more than one person clearly not looking for a disc golf partner in the evening. So have my friends. Whatever.

I don't know what point I want to make in the end... but I do feel that if there is actually a higher level of negative talk among disc golfers about the gay community, well as long as they continue to do these types of things in and around our disc golf courses, they are just setting themselves up for that talk. I don't agree with that talk but I also don't agree with what is going on while I am trying to sink a putt.

[Parks]

BTW - isn't this one of the very topics that made Parks interwebz famous:

Wat? I'm not sure what you're referencing in regards to me.

[cefire]

Wat? I'm not sure what you're referencing in regards to me.

The quote they pulled from DGR from 'Parks' - I made a guess that was probably the same 'Parks' from Spokane, with the same avatar pic etc. - unless you've got a doppelgänger :shocked:

[Parks]

Oh wow, I just skimmed the top portion of that blog post and decided it wasn't worth reading. I didn't even see that part. I thought you were referring to the thread that Silly linked in the original post that had some comments from me, and I was confuzzled.

"I urge you to examine some of theposts on one of the most commented on forums at discgolfreview.com, "Gays serving open in the military" (http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16374&st=o&sk=t&sd=a) The overwhelming support to put our nation's openly gay on the front line may just be disc golf's conspiratorial attempt at a legal form of execution, leaving the dirty work to our enemy combatants. Though many of the disc golfers appear to be following the trend, some feel like Parks, a forum poster on 2/03/10 who wrote, "I don't want some dude watching my ass instead of covering my six. How can you shoot straight with a limp wrist?" What I take from this is that Parks wants a dude to cover his six... This isn't surprising as Park's tag line on every post is, "We're at our best when it's from our hips", hmm. Maybe the gays are rubbing off on some disc golfers after all. (Perhaps Parks would be well served by the note on 4/15/08 regarding FAQ 2006.15 of the PDGA's officials rules, Kneeling on a towel. "One may use a towel or small pad (with a maximum compressed thickness of 1 centimeter) in order to prevent harm/abrasion to the body during competitive play." (http://www.pdga.com/files.documents/RulesQ&A.pdf))"

I don't think that the person who writes that blog understands that DGR is mostly people joking around and poking fun at serious people. Hence the next person in the thread posting the laughing emoticons.

[sillybizz]

I think it pops up more often or perhaps is just more salient in our community because many new courses are started with the parks dept. mindset of getting shenanigans (drug deals, hookups, homeless, hoodie-wearers, etc.) out of the park. This often leads to an "us versus them" mindset which pits disc golfers against others in the struggle for a potential new course - seems like a fairly natural progression by which this mindset could extend beyond the installation date. Not saying it is or isn't the case as I only have anecdotal data, but seems very plausible that this would be more likely in our group compared with others.

Thank you Andrew I'm not always great with words and getting a point across but this is exactly right.