Camp Sekani

[Wobbly Bob]

Congratulations to the DISC GOLFERS in Spokane on the birth of their new Disc Golf Course
CAMP SEKANI

I would like to thank those that have had a hand in bringing this BABY to Spokane.
The Spokane City Park's Department
The Spokane County Park's Department
The Spokane Disc Golf Association
Jeff Crum
Taylor Bressler
Leroy Eadie
Mike Aho
The Disc Golf Community of Spokane

Cody Miller will be directing the first tournament at Camp Sekani this coming Sunday.

Where: Camp Sekani
When: November 6, 2011 @ 10:00 am
Cost: $10 per person for 2 rounds
Format: To be announced

[Gordy #21004]

All you guys who are throwing around Leroy's name would do us a service by knowing how to spell it. E-A-D-I-E:posting:

[Wobbly Bob]

Having a last name like Perrewe, I understand about misspelling and mispronunciation. I apologize to Mr. Eadie for this error. I was using the spelling that Jeff used. I was not throwing anyone's name around, my intent is a heartfelt THANK YOU.

[Gordy #21004]

I guess you guys with the frenchy sounding names have learned to put up with it. But Eadie? That's Scottish! We don't roll that way.:nahnah:
Can I get a member ship renewal while I'm there? Thiss'll be my 10th year running. Do I get one free now?:chug:

[Gordy #21004]

I got a call from Tom Schot this evening from somewhere in the Sierra Foothills of N. California. He is just finishing up a Disc Golf Course design there. He said he is already familiar with our courses and then heard about the opening of the site at Sekani. He told me that he would like to come to Spokane later this month and spend two or three weeks here to study the property and create for us a course design or two course designs or a 27 hole course design what ever we want.
I told him I just wet my pants . I couldn't believe I was having this conversation with the Jack Nickalus of disc golf. He said he will give me another call over the weekend so I will have more concrete details for everyone in the next few days. This really is becoming a magical time in our Disc Golf story! Way to Go SDGA.:trophy:

[Wobbly Bob]

I contacted the Webmaster at NWDGNews on Wednesday and requested a new thread to be posted under Disc Golf Courses/Washington: Eastern WA./Camp Sekani.

I haven't heard back yet but I'm sure it's not far away.

[Wobbly Bob]

I guess you guys with the frenchy sounding names have learned to put up with it. But Eadie? That's Scottish! We don't roll that way.:nahnah:
Can I get a member ship renewal while I'm there? Thiss'll be my 10th year running. Do I get one free now?:chug:


I hope that Kevin will bring some membership forms for 2012. I would like to sign up for next year as well.

I'll bring a few forms myself.

[jshrack]

I got a call from Tom Schot this evening from somewhere in the Sierra Foothills of N. California. He is just finishing up a Disc Golf Course design there. He said he is already familiar with our courses and then heard about the opening of the site at Sekani. He told me that he would like to come to Spokane later this month and spend two or three weeks here to study the property and create for us a course design or two course designs or a 27 hole course design what ever we want.

:yay:

[Simmeltron]

AWESOME!!! So the best place to park is the Boulder Beach parking lot or???

[Burge]

AWESOME!!! So the best place to park is the Boulder Beach parking lot or???

Hmm:chinscratch:...approaching from the East? Drive ~1500' past the Boulder Beach parking lot and take a right at Camp Sekani. There is a terraced parking area just inside the gate and to the left...can't miss it. The first tee of the "Jam" course is to the right of the kiosk on the upper level.

[Gordy #21004]

"Gordy #21004=I told him I just wet my pants":waaah: ,and there not a damn thing you can do about it!:shocked: quote from Dances with Wolves.:nahnah:
:slapface:I have to work out of town next week and may not be able to make the Jam trny this Sunday:headbang: Good luck guys;)

Then I spilled all my Cheteos right in my lap.:shocked:

[Gordy #21004]

18 people came out to play in the 1st Sekani Benefit. Jeremy handled the registration and the scorecards and turned in $190 to the Club.
There were two more donations from two guys who couldn't play; $10 more.
The INWS sales table turned in 20% of its sales from the day; $14 more
Altogether that's $214 raised and dedicated to the Sekani project in the first day! There will be a second Benefit in two weeks. Keep checking in for details. A big thanks to all who kicked down and had a great time in the process!
Gordy.

[jshrack]

Do you know what day you will be holding the 2nd event?

I would like to keep the date clear.

[Yoduh]

Saturday the 19th is the next Camp Sakani Fundraiser!!! $10 entry fee and $5 goes to the course! I will begin taking registration at 11:30. The pros will play Sakani Gold and the ams will play the Jamboree course for schwag. Come out and see how quickly our new courses are coming together and support our new playground! Bring baskets and smiles!!!

[Gordy #21004]

The Sdga Board met tonight to discuss the transition of the Sekani project from the acquisition phase to the implementation phase. The measure before the Sdga to appoint a project manager to spearhead the project and their attendant
measure to subsequently designate a course designer was met with overwhelming support from the Board present.
The discussion was specifically about whether the Club contact to the Park's Dept. reservered the right to designate himself as Sekani course designer and designate the courses as finalized prior to these options being presented back to the Board. The Board concluded that the first step forward must come back to the Club first. We agree this decision underscores the Club's role in this process from it's very beginning. We further refer to the Club the services of Tom Schot, a nationally renowned disc course designer, to tackle the unique challenges of camp Sekani.

[Timber]

The discussion was specifically about whether the Club contact to the Park's Dept. reservered the right to designate himself as Sekani course designer and designate the courses as finalized prior to these options being presented back to the Board.

Jeff was perfectly clear in his original announcement that his layout work was preliminary, and any final design would have to be approved by the full board.

[Wobbly Bob]

Jeff was perfectly clear in his original announcement that his layout work was preliminary, and any final design would have to be approved by the full board.

And the design is already on the ground and the Board has not been asked to approve said design at this point. Will concrete go in before the design is approved?

[Gordy #21004]

Since the 'green light' news first broke the board has made every effort to convene in order to take the first step forward. In the pre-meeting discussions among ourselves we made it very clear that designating a project manager would be a solid beginning. Further, we spoke about enlisting the services of an independent designer who we have identified in a previous post. (which could be obtained at little or no cost to the Club)
When we met as a Board on Tuesday we were joined by the team that is doing the preliminary work at Sekani and were told by them that it is too late to pursue another course of action.(All the logistics meetings with the bike club had already taken place and all the Parks officials had already come and gone and would not be back) From these pronouncements I felt that if we engaged an independent designer that Jeff and his team would not be forthcoming with the preliminary guidelines that arose from their confidential meetings prior to the 'green light 'announcement. In this environment I do not feel comfortable having Tom Schot, the independent we have in mind, make travel commitments to come up and get started.
I wish Jeff had convened the meeting, so that the board could have conducted business and reached some conclusions on this matter and others. In the end it was good to meet the team and hear from them how they had diveed up the park amongst themselves.
Is this the juncture where we finally accept the formation of a Valley Club? Could this be our point in history where there is finnaly enough to go around? From what I gathered this team has all the essential elements it needs to go forth on its own. Gordy

[ScottW]

I think it would be sad if it's too late to bring in a professional designer. I am not super excited about some of the holes as they currently stand and would be interested to see what an outsider would come up with. Just my 2 cents.

[Stimpi]

I played the Jamboree course today, and was very disappointed. Many "dumb" holes, with a couple of "worst holes ever". One involved a huge, steep climb to a nice flat boulder/teepad. The shot was about 200-250ft. across a gully, with another steeper climb down into the gully and back up the other side. Definitely not worth the climb. There were better holes there, but I'm sure they would have encroached on other "designed" holes.
I was pretty disturbed by all the cutting Jeremy is doing, creating fairways where there are/were none. I understand he has permission from parks to cut anything "hand-around", which I take to mean about 2" in diameter. Many trees cut were quite larger. All this work on an undesigned course. Why? Does Jeff and Jeremy really feel this is the best use of this property? Man, I hope that's not where they're going. It'll be very disappointing as I feel Camp Sekani could be a great course. Nothing great about it so far.
They seem invested in two 18 hole courses, but I'm not sure that's the best idea. 27 holes, or one huge 18 would seem to make more sense.
I hope Jeff and Jeremy don't continue in the vein they are going. I wouldn't support SDGA club funds to build this course as it sits and I hope the other members who have been left out of this development feel the same way. If Jeff and Jeremy want to have the whole say, let them start their own club and raise their own funds and then they can do whatever they want. With MY club, I want a vote.
Furthermore, I would like to see the Club distance itself from the bushwhacking that's being done there. It's not being designed to use "natural corridors" as disc golf courses normally are, yet the cutting is being done to satisfy this precarious design of Jeff and Jeremy's.

[coryreu]

I played the Jamboree course today, and was very disappointed. Many "dumb" holes, with a couple of "worst holes ever". One involved a huge, steep climb to a nice flat boulder/teepad. The shot was about 200-250ft. across a gully, with another steeper climb down into the gully and back up the other side. Definitely not worth the climb. There were better holes there, but I'm sure they would have encroached on other "designed" holes.
I was pretty disturbed by all the cutting Jeremy is doing, creating fairways where there are/were none. I understand he has permission from parks to cut anything "hand-around", which I take to mean about 2" in diameter. Many trees cut were quite larger. All this work on an undesigned course. Why? Does Jeff and Jeremy really feel this is the best use of this property? Man, I hope that's not where they're going. It'll be very disappointing as I feel Camp Sekani could be a great course. Nothing great about it so far.
They seem invested in two 18 hole courses, but I'm not sure that's the best idea. 27 holes, or one huge 18 would seem to make more sense.
I hope Jeff and Jeremy don't continue in the vein they are going. I wouldn't support SDGA club funds to build this course as it sits and I hope the other members who have been left out of this development feel the same way. If Jeff and Jeremy want to have the whole say, let them start their own club and raise their own funds and then they can do whatever they want. With MY club, I want a vote.
Furthermore, I would like to see the Club distance itself from the bushwhacking that's being done there. It's not being designed to use "natural corridors" as disc golf courses normally are, yet the cutting is being done to satisfy this precarious design of Jeff and Jeremy's.

If Stimpi, one of the most knowledgeable and well traveled disc golfers in Spokane, is saying that the course is not good. That's bad. Somehow the club needs to nip this in the bud ASAP! The club needs to have a meeting and vote this down and get Tom Schot up here to make this a world class course, while the terrain is still prime.
Why are there permanent changes being made to a preliminary course design?
Jeff and Jeremy, if you're willing to listen, I beg you, please stop what you're doing to the land. You're acting quite hastily. My two cents.
Wait... I have another cent to spend.
Jeff, when you initially posted your report on Sekani, you offered the opportunity to "would be" designers to come in and try to come up with a better design, which you doubted. Why are you not willing to take on the option of having an "already established" and well known designer come in and help the cause, at little to no cost to the club? Wouldn't that be going against your word?

[Wobbly Bob]

I implore Jeff and Jeremy to quit cutting at Camp Sekani. The Board has not agreed to any layout as of yet. With no layout approved it seems that the cutting should be considered the actions of outlaws. After reading the last few posts on this thread I think it is time to halt all cutting and put this project into the hands of the SDGA Board. I am documenting the cutting that is being done and there are a bunch of trees that have been cut that are bigger than 2" in diameter. If the Parks Dept. knew we were cutting these larger trees what would they say? Jeff himself said that the work being done was preliminary and any final design would have to be Board approved. Cutting out fairways is not considered preliminary work and no design has been approved.

[Yoduh]

All of the branches that have been taken are less than 2'' in diameter. The dumb hole you are referring to will be changed with a shovel and a bit of work. A 27 hole course is an awful idea, dumb is a good word to describe the use of the property in this matter. You wanna see dumb holes, walk out into your yard and look around.

[Yoduh]

Furthermore I have approval to trim everything that has been trimmed. We had a long meeting with the parks official. Please refrain from passing judgement until the work we are allowed to do is done. Speaking of Tom Shott I have a great story about him. He spoke with a city council woman about a potential course that he wanted to put in. She was interested in letting him put in the course and she said she'd do some checking on it.. 3 months later she contacted him to talk to him about going forward with the project. She asked him how close he was to being ready to start the project. He said he was done with the front 9 and was in the midst of building the the middle 9 of the course.. She thought they were going to have to do an environmental study and that it would be at least another 6 months before he started.. You should have seen the forest he cut this course out of.. It was thick as could possibly be. If you were off of the fairway you were in the crap. The course was pretty good Had about 2 or 3 stupid holes.. It ranked 3rd out of the 4 courses I played at worlds. I like Tom, one of Gordy's old friends. He is a doer.. He gets stuff done. I've played 272 courses in 30 states. I've played at 5 World Championships and designed what Christian Dietrich calls the 2nd best course behind Milo Mcgiver in Estacada Oregon. Milo is on most people's top 5 courses in the world list for those who don't know.. So please, lets not pass judgement until all the horses have come in. Next Saturday I am hosting an event. If its as awful as it can be when you play it.. Come back and post such on Saturday evening, my thoughts are that you will probably be in the minority.

[Stimpi]

You're right Tom. The SDGA used to be a viable organization, who built courses, improved those courses, and was considered the "best club in Washington". Then along came our Steward, Jeff, and the club became the Crum show. If Jeff didn't want it to happen, it didn't happen, and if Jeff wanted something to happen, it happened, no matter what the members and Board had to say about it. "the Board" hasn't been able to agree on anything since his inception.
Yep, he's getting something done, all right. We all wish we knew what it was? And we wish we had some input.

[Yoduh]

Yeah right Stimpi... Your funny!! I remember hearing Gordy brag about getting garbage cans in one years worth of work, right before Jeff was elected.. One guy gets things done. A couple are ankle weights and the other 2 have quit a while ago.... anyway


Next Saturday's event that starts at noon and cost's $10 will be pro am doubles!!!!!

[Wobbly Bob]

All of the branches that have been taken are less than 2'' in diameter. The dumb hole you are referring to will be changed with a shovel and a bit of work. A 27 hole course is an awful idea, dumb is a good word to describe the use of the property in this matter. You wanna see dumb holes, walk out into your yard and look around.

Lots of trees (not branches) cut that were larger than 2" but I guess that depends on where you measure the tree. Right?

Are you measuring them at the point that you are cutting them?

[coryreu]

First of all, this isn't an issue about who's gotten the most done in a given amount of time. And it isn't about who's designing credentials give them the right to build design. It's about getting this major project done right and going through the proper channels to get it done.
Secondly, having a meeting with a park official and getting their approval to do something, doesn't mean you just go do it. Minutes from the meeting with the park official should be taken and brought to the attention of the board.( this should be where you break out a tape recorder.)*see below.
Lastly, in regards to the idea of.. wait and see what we've done, and then give your opinion... isn't right. Of course good reviews will be given when people come play this course. It's like sticking a great big, shiny, new toy in front of a kid. They love it every time. Disc golfers have a mutual love of throwing discs into baskets. And if you give them a new place to do it, they love it even more.

*Usually when these recordings of conversations between Jeff and park officials are taken, they get written into a report and posted on these forums, which don't show total authenticity. The report sucks all of the air out of the thread right off the bat. Leaving questions to be answered which never are. Seemingly giving Jeff the feeling of accomplishment to do whatever he believes he has earned the right to do. Yes, he's gotten into the good graces of the city parks officials, which is totally and respectably noble. But that doesn't mean he can act solely on his own agenda. Currently, Jeff is only an informative between the city to the board, when he should be more focused on being a representative and co-worker for the SDGA .

[Stimpi]

You wanna see dumb holes, walk out into your yard and look around.

That's the difference between you and me. I never pretend that my course is any more than it is. A 5 acre pitch and putt. I suspect your ego feels it could redesign my property into a "Championship" layout like the one you are creating at Crumkani. I hate to tell you this, but that's what it is, your ego, designing this property. Give us (the members of the club and the board) one reason why we should go along with an agenda and design that you and Jeff have been working on, in secret, for months without a lick on input from anyone? and a design that is having a hard time drumming up support?

[Yoduh]

That's the difference between you and me. I never pretend that my course is any more than it is. A 5 acre pitch and putt. I suspect your ego feels it could redesign my property into a "Championship" layout like the one you are creating at Crumkani. I hate to tell you this, but that's what it is, your ego, designing this property. Give us (the members of the club and the board) one reason why we should go along with an agenda and design that you and Jeff have been working on, in secret, for months without a lick on input from anyone? and a design that is having a hard time drumming up support?

Not having a hard time drumming up support Stimpio. You, Bob and Gordy are the 3 people that have had problems.. I haven't heard anything but support. Next Saturday we will see if Championship is going to be an appropriate term to describe the lower course on Sakani. My ego isn't really in this picture as much as my frustration with somebody voicing displeasure with an uncompleted project.. Furthermore I have an even bigger problem with you coming onto this forum to air out your grievances with my actions when you were standing directly in front of my face and saw what was going on. If you would have pointed out your issue of tree cutting I could have easily showed you at that moment the few bigger than 2" trees that were cut, had big bends in them and were already folded over trees. Instead you wait to hit the forum, pretend to be nice in person, talk smack on a forum?!?!? Par for the course in the passive aggressive department, eh Stimp?

Bob There might be a couple over 2 inches but not by much.. I was there meeting with the park guy and he showed me what was ok and 2 inches was not in the parameters.. Tress that are bigger but totally bent over are also allowed to be removed.

Hard to properly record a meeting that took place while hiking all over a hillside and pointing at stuff and talking. Even harder is trying to post notes about such meeting in a meaningful manner. After Saturday I want any kind of feedback I can get. More than interested in having the best possible course as I don't see it as my design, I see it as our design. There have been 6 golfers that have came up and worked and have contributed their ideas to the course we are building. If you want to come give your ideas and feedback you are more than welcome to. I have worked with you before Cory and we have came up with great ideas before.

[LJ Jubner]

Hard to properly record a meeting that took place while hiking all over a hillside and pointing at stuff and talking. Even harder is trying to post notes about such meeting in a meaningful manner. .

maybe you should have taken your sky pilot with you. He seems to have a photographic memory. or at least his posts read that way

[coryreu]

I have worked with you before Cory and we have came up with great ideas before.

I need not, nor want not to talk about ideas from the past. My comments are only concerning the ideas about what is happening at Sekani in the present. Which are being acted upon without the proper approval of the board.

[Yoduh]

That's the difference between you and me. I never pretend that my course is any more than it is. A 5 acre pitch and putt. I suspect your ego feels it could redesign my property into a "Championship" layout like the one you are creating at Crumkani. I hate to tell you this, but that's what it is, your ego, designing this property. Give us (the members of the club and the board) one reason why we should go along with an agenda and design that you and Jeff have been working on, in secret, for months without a lick on input from anyone? and a design that is having a hard time drumming up support?

Not having a hard time drumming up support Stimpio. You, Bob and Gordy are the 3 people that have had problems.. I haven't heard anything but support. Next Saturday we will see if Championship is going to be an appropriate term to describe the lower course on Sakani. My ego isn't really in this picture as much as my frustration with somebody voicing displeasure with an uncompleted project.. Furthermore I have an even bigger problem with you coming onto this forum to air out your grievances with my actions when you were standing directly in front of my face and saw what was going on. If you would have pointed out your issue of tree cutting I could have easily showed you at that moment the few bigger than 2" trees that were cut, had big bends in them and were already folded over trees. Instead you wait to hit the forum, pretend to be nice in person, talk smack on a forum?!?!? Par for the course in the passive aggressive department, eh Stimp?

Bob There might be a couple over 2 inches but not by much.. I was there meeting with the park guy and he showed me what was ok and 2 inches was not in the parameters.. Tress that are bigger but totally bent over are also allowed to be removed.

Hard to properly record a meeting that took place while hiking all over a hillside and pointing at stuff and talking. Even harder is trying to post notes about such meeting in a meaningful manner. I will take any kind of actual feedback I can get. More than interested in having the best possible course as I don't see it as my design, I see it as our design. There have been 6 golfers that have came up and worked and have contributed their ideas to the course we are building. If you want to come give your ideas and feedback you are more than welcome to. I have worked with you before Cory and we have came up with great ideas before.

[Yoduh]

I need not, nor want not to talk about ideas from the past. My comments are only concerning the ideas about what is happening at Sekani in the present. Which are being acted upon without the proper approval of the board.

Bucket courses have been laid out and played long before the board ever existed

[Yoduh]

Bucket courses have been laid out and played long before the board ever existed

Whats happening now is the exact same thing that happened at People's park when it first went in.. Nobody whined and complained then.. Don't know what the issue is now. Even though I actually designed People's park everybody thought that Kevin designed it. It was a very difficult piece of property to put a safe layout together that flowed, and to make it as difficult as could possibly be on a 20 acre piece of land that has trails zig zagging all over it. Done reading and reacting to certain negative posters on this forum. :biggrin2:

[jshrack]

Yoduh, from my perspective, the problem isn't that you have taken the initiative and started designing a course... rather I commend this action! The problem is the fact that you and Jeff did it without allowing local disc golfers any input whatsoever.

minor example: Many of us like the idea of a 27 hole course.

I have heard you complain that the SDGA has lost sight of local disc golf... you took control of a project many of us were excited about, donned your course designer blinders, and left us golfers feeling further removed than before.

At this point, I just see a Giant Pissing Contest with Spokane area disc golfers acting as the urinal. :slapface:

I hope we can all work to make Spokane Disc Golf the best possible scene it can be.
I am trying my best to keep this in the forefront of my mind and I ask everyone to consider doing the same.

[Gordy #21004]

The issue isn't the relative merit of the proposed courses, it is that Jeff has sought no input
from the Club he was elected to serve.
The SDGA did not elect a Dictator, we elected a Steward to work with an executive board and voting membership.
Jeff was not elected to unilaterally decide for us.

Jaymie Crafts

[LJ Jubner]

It seems to me the project is moving forward without completing the process.
It seems that one group has submitted a design alone. No other concepts were solicited.
It seems one group has taken it upon themselves to decide in favor of the only design submitted
and then started the process of installing holes at the Sekani site.

It seems to me this oversight can be readily addressed if two things happen


all work at the Sekani site needs to cease immediately
the process needs to start.

solicit design concepts to submit to the Facalites Coordinator who will
set deadline for submissions
chair review process for decision making purposes
actually start final installation


It seems that any effort put forth (past the basic marking of the potential holes) is wasted effort and could actually adversely effect the current relationship with the Spokane P/R

It also seems that no matter what the club will be involved when it comes time to write the check.

As the sagey tomw would suggest."Might as well have it be on good terms then adversarial tones"

[Yoduh]

Happy Birthday Tom!!!! Thanks for your input and would love to see you next week and hear what you think!

[General Scales]

I have played the Jamboree course and the gold course twice now and I see both the awesome and the terrible.

In my opinion, I think that a 27 hole with two tees and two pin locations for each hole would be a much more worthwhile investment for disc golf in Spokane. With 27 and two pads, you could make a Gold and Am course without having to force the player to play some, excuse my french, shitty holes.

For example, the gold course has a few holes that seem very forced just to make a second 18. Then again, there are some holes up there that are beyond cool and difficult. I hated 5 the first time around and now I'm on board with it. Even though it's a potential danger because you can't see the bikers on the bottom trail before you make the up hill drive. The second par 4 that plays up the hill (7 or 8 I think) is the best hole on the course. It's fair to both hands, it's difficult if you try to play the giant drive. It's not in danger of knocking anybody out thats on a bike.

The bottom line in this rant. I think that the 27 hole layout would be a better option. You could get a better use of the property, not play so many holes that feel forced and generally have a world class course that draws people to play it. That is, if you make a 27 that has multiple options. I would rather see this course take a year or more to get right then make it in 6 months and spend the next 5 years bitching about it.

P.S. Jeremy, I thought you hated thumber holes :P There are so many holes on the gold course that are thumbers if you have the arm for it.

-Stuart-

[Wobbly Bob]

Attention SDGA Members
There will be a Members Meeting this week

Where; The old Season Ticket or the new Tailgater (in front of Value Village)
When; Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 7:00 pm
Why; Talk about the new property at Camp Sekani
What would you as an SDGA Member like to see at Camp Sekani?

2012 Memberships will be available

[Yoduh]

I have played the Jamboree course and the gold course twice now and I see both the awesome and the terrible.

In my opinion, I think that a 27 hole with two tees and two pin locations for each hole would be a much more worthwhile investment for disc golf in Spokane. With 27 and two pads, you could make a Gold and Am course without having to force the player to play some, excuse my french, shitty holes.

For example, the gold course has a few holes that seem very forced just to make a second 18. Then again, there are some holes up there that are beyond cool and difficult. I hated 5 the first time around and now I'm on board with it. Even though it's a potential danger because you can't see the bikers on the bottom trail before you make the up hill drive. The second par 4 that plays up the hill (7 or 8 I think) is the best hole on the course. It's fair to both hands, it's difficult if you try to play the giant drive. It's not in danger of knocking anybody out thats on a bike.

The bottom line in this rant. I think that the 27 hole layout would be a better option. You could get a better use of the property, not play so many holes that feel forced and generally have a world class course that draws people to play it. That is, if you make a 27 that has multiple options. I would rather see this course take a year or more to get right then make it in 6 months and spend the next 5 years bitching about it.

P.S. Jeremy, I thought you hated thumber holes :P There are so many holes on the gold course that are thumbers if you have the arm for it.

-Stuart-

I can easily disagree with a 27 hole course being the best option. The reasoning behind that disagreement is because the city see's exactly what you see. The reason I designed the course the way I did. They have been opening up new land for us to use. By putting their bike trails in danger we have successfully lobbied to get different unused chunks of land to use for our course. See if you only take what your given and you don;t ask for more than that's all you get. Our members on this forum only see what's directly in their face and do not see the big picture. Nothing has been set in any kind of stone but people are freaking out as if it were. This whole process is about relationships and communication and feedback from the bikers mostly.. Just calm yourselves golfers. There is a method being used here and I promise you it's all worth it in the end..

SO if hole 9 is your favorite Were there any other good holes, or not so good.. Here's my favorites.. hole 1, hole 5, hole 9, HOLE12!!! hole 14, HOLE 15!!! HOLE 18!!! If you don't like the holes with the exclamations than I'm a little concerned :seeya:

As far as thumbers are concerned I try to design them out of every hole but it is nearly impossible.. If the shot is the shot than I'm not going to make it a worse hole just to get rid of a thumber.. But with that in mind you do realize that the thumbers that are on the course are for people that can REALLY throw one, no cheapies..

SO on to this last minute club meeting I love the fact that everybody needs to waste their gas and time to run to a meeting that takes place 2 days before a club event. A 1 round club event that will be over about 2:30 with plenty of time to talk about what people think after they have made an informed decision. This goes right along with having candidates do a speech about what they will do if elected RIGHT AFTER everybody votes. I LOVE MANIPULATION!!!!!!!!:trophy:

[Yoduh]

There are 2 main reasons why two 18 holes are advantagous to our cause. The first is for tournaments. We can play two rounds in one day and allow more golfers to participate. The second is for rec play. Having a world class hilly course will keep a lot of rec players away. It will allow the more serious players a place to throw without the strollers and and the folfers. It's a place where they will get discouraged and head back down the hill in some instances. Should make for a bit more of an exclusive place to play in the city..

[General Scales]

I will agree with the two 18's make for a better tournament layout. Still would like to see multiple pads per hole though on each of the 18's. No reason there couldn't be two gold courses in one location. 18 is awesome on both layouts.

[prospect]

... By putting their bike trails in danger we have successfully lobbied to get different unused chunks of land to use for our course... I LOVE MANIPULATION!!!!!!!!:trophy:

I can see that...nice work:rolleyes2:

[Yoduh]

I can see that...nice work:rolleyes2: SO on to this last minute club meeting I love the fact that everybody needs to waste their gas and time to run to a meeting that takes place 2 days before a club event. A 1 round club event that will be over about 2:30 with plenty of time to talk about what people think after they have made an informed decision. This goes right along with having candidates do a speech about what they will do if elected RIGHT AFTER everybody votes. I LOVE MANIPULATION!!!!!!!!

How is it that we go 8 months without a members meeting and then we get 3 days notice for a meeting.. I'm sure this hasn't been posted at any of the courses nor has it been emailed to any of the club members. If only our PR guy actually knew how to relate to the actual Public :chinscratch:

[Yoduh]

As in to people with jobs and prior commitments who might need more than a few days notice to show up like say a whole week?? Not to worry though the charter is written so that if the board doesn't like what the club decides than they can just out vote it and change it..

[coryreu]

Jeremy, all you simply need to do is state the obvious and say you're not going to be at the meeting.
Giving yourself, and anyone else who is willing to listen, reasons not to go to the meeting is smart on your part. Examples: "Shouldn't because it's 2 days before the Jam this Saturday." "Shouldn't because it's a waste of gas and you should see my work before you speak." "Can't because there was no notice." Whatever your reasons, it can't discredit the purpose of the meeting.
I'd do the same, if I thought there was no chance to win a debate for approval prior to your project.
Why not attend the meeting and see if you can receive approval through legitimate means? It can't hurt, can it?

[Sean Johnson]

The really important question is whether or not there will be any voting going on at this meeting. Club members can get together and hash it out with an hours notice for all I care, but we need more notice and more methods of notification before any vote should happen. The direction we take at Camp Sekani will have lasting and significant impacts on the Spokane disc golf community and we shouldn't cut any corners in the process.

We need to find a way to contact all members of the club and give them the time to plan around the meeting. I hate to say it, but posting something on this forum simply isn't enough. Many members don't even get on this site and those that do don't always do it regularly enough to catch a meeting on such short notice. If there is any way I can help in this matter, just let me know. I don't mind calling or emailing anyone (or everyone for that matter) in the SDGA in an effort to get the word out.


As far as the course goes-

I wholeheartedly agree that no one should be cutting a damn thing until the whole club (not just the board) has a chance to vote on our direction at Sekani. I also agree that neither Jeff or Jeremy have any real authority to be making final decisions about the course design at Sekani.

However, we shouldn't overlook the qualifications that they bring to the table. Jeff may have ruffled some feathers and possibly exceeded his authority over the last year, but the results that he has produced have been impressive and really encouraging. And yes, I know that he is not the only person putting in work around Spokane. :rolleyes2:

Despite whatever misgivings anyone may have, Jeremy is a fantastic course designer. DBD at Farragut is quite simply one of the most technically complete and balanced courses that I have ever played. I may not be as well traveled as some, but I've played over thirty courses in the NW and it sits comfortably in the top three alongside Milo and Hornings Gold.

I also want to remind the board to practice what they preach. There have been many examples of the board ignoring, degrading, or countermanding the wishes of the club as a whole. The midterm appointment of a board member without popular vote and the handling of the Downriver redesign are the first few that come to mind. When people voice complaints, they are rarely addressed and are often scorned or marginalized.

All I am asking is that everyone keep an open mind and don't let your personal issues get in the way of what could be one of the pivotal moments for disc golf in the Spokane area. We have the opportunity to effectively double the number of public courses in Spokane and have an incredible property to work with, lets make the best of it.

[Yoduh]

The Saturday Camp Sakani doubles event will be on the Jamboree course and it will be a par 57. The course will be roughly 1,200 feet longer and shooting in the 40's is possible in doubles.. very tough to shoot that in singles.. 1000 rated will be about 53 IMHO

[Yoduh]

Jeremy, all you simply need to do is state the obvious and say you're not going to be at the meeting.
Giving yourself, and anyone else who is willing to listen, reasons not to go to the meeting is smart on your part. Examples: "Shouldn't because it's 2 days before the Jam this Saturday." "Shouldn't because it's a waste of gas and you should see my work before you speak." "Can't because there was no notice." Whatever your reasons, it can't discredit the purpose of the meeting.
I'd do the same, if I thought there was no chance to win a debate for approval prior to your project.
Why not attend the meeting and see if you can receive approval through legitimate means? It can't hurt, can it?

I have to work.. I'm a referee and I cannot switch my matches on this short of notice. I know others that have switched work schedules to attend meetings and others who would of if they found out early enough.

[Yoduh]

I really appreciate Sean's take on the situation... Except the part where you called me an excellent course designer:wink2:

[Stimpi]

So, what happened @ the meeting. ??

It's tonight.

[jshrack]

:jumpspin: its tonight :jumpspin:

[Sky Pilot]

I’ve been getting these e-mail messages about having Stimpi lead (chair) the Club meeting tonight. Jon, Gordy, Lyle and Bob all want him to lead it (on the surface) because he’s supposedly ‘neutral’.

Dictionary.com defines neutral this way…
neu•tral
   [noo-truh l, nyoo-]
adjective
1.
not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others: a neutral nation during World War II.
2.
not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy: The arbitrator was absolutely neutral.

Now re-read these statements that Stimpi has made on the Forum and make your own decision as to his ‘neutrality’.

November 10th
I played the Jamboree course today, and was very disappointed. Many "dumb" holes, with a couple of "worst holes ever". One involved a huge, steep climb to a nice flat boulder/teepad. The shot was about 200-250ft. across a gully, with another steeper climb down into the gully and back up the other side. Definitely not worth the climb. There were better holes there, but I'm sure they would have encroached on other "designed" holes.
I was pretty disturbed by all the cutting Jeremy is doing, creating fairways where there are/were none. I understand he has permission from parks to cut anything "hand-around", which I take to mean about 2" in diameter. Many trees cut were quite larger. All this work on an undesigned course. Why? Does Jeff and Jeremy really feel this is the best use of this property? Man, I hope that's not where they're going. It'll be very disappointing as I feel Camp Sekani could be a great course. Nothing great about it so far.
They seem invested in two 18 hole courses, but I'm not sure that's the best idea. 27 holes, or one huge 18 would seem to make more sense.
I hope Jeff and Jeremy don't continue in the vein they are going. I wouldn't support SDGA club funds to build this course as it sits and I hope the other members who have been left out of this development feel the same way. If Jeff and Jeremy want to have the whole say, let them start their own club and raise their own funds and then they can do whatever they want. With MY club, I want a vote.
Furthermore, I would like to see the Club distance itself from the bushwhacking that's being done there. It's not being designed to use "natural corridors" as disc golf courses normally are, yet the cutting is being done to satisfy this precarious design of Jeff and Jeremy's.

November 12th
You're right Tom. The SDGA used to be a viable organization, who built courses, improved those courses, and was considered the "best club in Washington". Then along came our Steward, Jeff, and the club became the Crum show. If Jeff didn't want it to happen, it didn't happen, and if Jeff wanted something to happen, it happened, no matter what the members and Board had to say about it. "the Board" hasn't been able to agree on anything since his inception.
Yep, he's getting something done, all right. We all wish we knew what it was? And we wish we had some input.

My Comments:
Notice that there is no 'balance' of opinion in his comments. Mostly (if not all) negative without any or (little) positive to say.

You guys are trying to make me laugh right? Let’s drop the ‘political correctness’ mask and tell it like it is. These statements do not qualify someone as ‘neutral’. Truth is, many of you are my opponants, and haven’t wanted me there from the beginning. You've actively campaigned against me, and have been salivating for me to quit since I started. Some of you constantly invalidate, put down, and attempt to frustrate my efforts. I have to forgive you constantly. If you want examples I can share them with the world if that’s what it takes.

You guys are all worked up about ‘cutting’ right now, right? Concerning ‘cutting’ at Sekani, at least we’ve been given permission to do so. I had Gordy tell me to look the other way when he was doing some illegal ‘cutting’ on hole #5 at High Bridge. Eric Brown and Troy Farley were actually caught on film by News channel 4 cutting at High Bridge after I had said that cutting wasn’t allowed there. I wonder how many other Board members approved this. And by the way, this isn't private information - I saw it on TV. Gordy also participated in illegal cutting on new hole #14 at Downriver. I saw the ‘before’ and ‘after’ results, as the ‘hole’ design idea was his. You can ask him how many other times he’s wielded the pruners on our courses since we were disallowed from doing so.

It’s also interesting to me that there wasn’t a big ‘frenzy’ over the development of People’s Park – an area I helped to establish and hoped would succeed. I spent hours down there working on learning the land and developing a ‘first design’. I don’t remember anyone complaining about the fact that I did this. Some went down there later and altered it, but I still wanted people to try what eventually Lyle and I laid out. It didn’t work out, but we didn’t need a ‘project manager’ to slow everything down.

So what happened with the Downriver design contest? I submitted a design – as did several others in 2009. After Chirs's design was approved I went to the City to tell them we had a new design and that they would need to come down and review it and approve it. I fully expected Eric our Facilities Coordinator to implement the design that was voted in at the election meeting of 2009. Nothing was ever implemented. It eventually just became a bad memory in people’s minds. I wonder if other Board members encouraged Eric to shelve it. I eventually got frustrated and said that if this wasn’t going to happen then at least perhaps we can install alternate pins. Though we supposedly have a committee to establish these – I’m aware of little progress.

I honestly believe that some on our Board do not want Sekani to happen in ANY form. That’s why Bob and Gordy suddenly tried to resurrect People’s Park which had been abandoned for about 6 months. I rescued the last bucket in September. I saw two others buckets and one of them was broken and had a bees nest in it. It was a waste. If some of you may have thought that I’d got some of the buckets for Sekani from there – think again. None of them were available to be used.

I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated.

I can’t believe that Stimpi said that in the past we were considered to be the ‘the best club in Washington’. By whom? I got involved in 2009 precisely because I saw the incredible neglect at High Bridge. Gordy himself admitted at the election of 2009 that all they'd done in '08 was "put garbage cans at Downriver". Concerning High Bridge - there were rumors circulating for over a year of a possible ‘expansion’ under the Bridges. When I got involved I was able to settle the rumors with just a few phone calls. why hadn't someone else done that? In '07,& '08, the facilities’ at High Bridge we’re in obvious disrepair and neglect. Perhaps we were the ‘best club in Washington’ for some other reason that I’m unaware of, but not because that course was functioning up to par.

Let’s be real. There’s no neutrality in Stimpi’s appointment to ‘chair’ the meeting tonight. And if he has political asperations, that makes him even less neutral.

Fact is, I wasn’t even asked if I could make a meeting tonight. It was just ‘announced’ by Bob that we were having it. I guess since they got someone else to ‘lead’ it they’re saying that I am not needed.

It is true though, that if there is not a quorum present (4 or more Board members) that some Board members may need me to be there, so that they can vote against me.

And Stimpi, if I’ve ever done anything to hurt you personally, please forgive me. I’ve always thought you were a pretty good guy.

I was going to make an important positive announcement tonight about Disc Golf in this area – but now… I’m not sure that this is the right time or place…

I feel like I should be watching out for a crazed mob with pitchforks and torches.

Sky Pilot

[jshrack]

Who could be an impartial Chair?
Stimpi was suggested but seems partial from his past comments.
Maka was suggested but seems partial from his past comments.
I personally can't stand the way either side is handling this situation, so I will not suggest myself. :biggrin2:

Who might be a neutral moderator...
Might we invite Tom Walker?
Or Sean Johnson?
They both seem to have constructive comments and positive perspectives.

[LJ Jubner]

Who could be an impartial Chair?
Stimpi was suggested but seems partial from his past comments.
Maka was suggested but seems partial from his past comments.
I personally can't stand the way either side is handling this situation, so I will not suggest myself. :biggrin2:

Who might be a neutral moderator...
Might we invite Tom Walker?
Or Sean Johnson?
They both seem to have constructive comments and positive perspectives.


I would offer but I can't make the flight.

This needs to be said. It's kinda funny how when confronted with the promise of descension Jeremy was the only one willing to stand up for what he thinks Not one word from Our Fearless Leader. (Damn moose and squirrel) If Jeremy had even considered stopping or at least slowing down this all could have been easily averted

Remember
This is just a fact finding meeting!!!! Intended on doing just that gaining insight from the members in attendance. Expecting any kind of final decision at or from this meeting is a fools errand at best.

[Stimpi]

I never claim to be impartial. I'm totally partial to the Spokane Disc Golf Association and it's role in the development of disc golf in the area. The Sekani courses are being presented as an SDGA project, yet only one board member, and one member at large, are privy to the information around this project yet tons of permanent development is being done.
That's not the way our club has ever operated in the past, and the City Officials we've dealt with appreciate that fact.
The meeting needs to be facilitated by someone, and everyone already knows where I stand. I'm not going to monoplize the meeting, just see that all the issues are addressed and everyone who want to speak will get a chance to speak. Robert's Rules of Order y'know.
See you soon.
Stimp

[Stimpi]

I thought the meeting went well. Emotions often ran high, but everyone kept their cool and the discussions were pertinent.
No motions were presented, nor votes held, due to the meeting being held in an Over-21 establishment and all members couldn't, legally, be present, not to mention the members who may need to bring young'uns to the meeting.
The one thing agreed upon by all present was the announcement of another Members Meeting to be held on Wednesday, November 30th, at 7:00pm, at a Family establishment to be announced later.
From what I understand, the topic of said meeting will be the future of the Camp Sekani Disc Golf Course property. The club membership, and the Board, will discuss a direction to proceed, and appoint a Project Manager to oversee the clubs wishes for the development of this property, from design to completion. Duties would include being a liaison between all concerned agencies (SDGA, Park Dept, Bike Club, Beacon Hill Agenda folks, etc..) assisting the Designer(s), organizing work parties, and more I suppose. So I think we should gather many members together for the meeting and see what direction we want to take with this promising area.
Thanks to all who showed up tonight.
We even drew Jack Wardian over from North Idaho. Thanks for coming, Jack.

[friable7]

It was an okay meeting tonight. Unfortunate that there were issues with the venue and short notice. However, I am pleased that we ended up having an open forum with no voting (maybe the Congress should give it a try!). Sometimes a bloodless "airing it out" is the best medicine. Anyway, my hope is that we can just all chill for a couple of weeks and let the "ground rest". There is certainly no lack of energy and investment into get this thing whipped into the "gold standard" for our region- or even better. Just a matter of pulling it together and getting the energy focused. Hope to see all at the next meeting. Tim N.

[Parks]

Chill out??!?

Goddammit Tim, if I catch you in my backyard cutting my shrubs with a chainsaw without permission again I'm going to snap. I will not chill out!

[Yoduh]

I am very dissapointed with the reports I've heard back from the meeting regarding the way it was chaired. We are in a better place now but there was a SERIOUS lack of leadership in chairing the meeting. For further meetings a chairman allows each member to speak. If one member addresses another member with a question. That member should be allowed to answer the question fully before another member is called onto speak. SNIDE comments should not be allowed and asking question upon question without allowing the person to finish their answers, is not how a proper meeting should be ran.

With all that being said I think we found a common ground and there was an understanding that was reached. I am very excited about this huge new chunk of land that Jeff has brought us and it will make coming up with a design a much easier process.:cheers:

[Parks]

I actually thought the meeting went about as good as anyone could have hoped. I did feel that the same questions were repeated a bunch only slightly rephrased, and that there was a bit of shouting, but I thought it was going to be a lot worse.

Jeremy, I was glad you showed up to refute the cutting accusations.

As usual, Sean and Tim decided to be the voices of reason, and I was glad they showed up as well.

[Yoduh]

I actually thought the meeting went about as good as anyone could have hoped. I did feel that the same questions were repeated a bunch only slightly rephrased, and that there was a bit of shouting, but I thought it was going to be a lot worse.

Jeremy, I was glad you showed up to refute the cutting accusations.

As usual, Sean and Tim decided to be the voices of reason, and I was glad they showed up as well.

Lyle was that meeting fun? Did you know that the bartender would not come and serve us because "she was afraid!?" Another group of patrons was "Waiting for the fight to happen!" Did you notice anybody getting ganged up on? What about not letting speakers finish questions, because somebody else blurted out another question, while the original question was being answered? Questions being asked the exact same way, several times is a clear cut case of either disrespect and not listening, OR too much ALCOHOL! I would hope that members with disagreements or not, would listen and respect one another. Everybody at that meeting deserves respect for what they have done in our community. For paying their $20.. For taking their time to show up. Everybody at a meeting should follow some very basic principals of meetings. We may need to add these to our charter.

1. We should listen to one another to find out whats happened.
2. Add what we think.
3. Make plans and motions and move on from there.

I ask any one of you at that meeting to express to me how you would feel if you were badgered by a large group of people. A group that is not listening to your answers and doing whatever they can to piss you off and disrespect you???? I think that once again alchohol has played a huge role in drama at an SDGA club meeting. For some reason or another people think a meeting is a great place to drink. They can't seem to help but drink. It's really no wonder why the same questions were asked repeatedly.... I of course am drawing conclusions, but my experience has taught me that people that drink can easily resort to a mob mentality. Which is probably why we scared the all of the people in the same building as us.

For this reason I ask that the SDGA adopt a club meeting rule, that keeps all members attending a meeting, from drinking while at the meeting, or from being noticeably drunk.. I feel like if you can't meet for a couple hours without booze for a constructive club meeting, than maybe you should go to another type of meeting. A tasty micro is a great way to relax and enjoy time among friends, and a shot of whiskey helps too. :chug: There is a time and a place! If I am heated about something, DRINKING is the LAST THING I need to do!! That is a pretty good rule for humans. It takes an emotional situation, and turns into an explosive situation.:explode: Not the kind of positive atmosphere we should create in our community, or to the viewers of our community. I know that the people that were in that bar that were not a part of our situation were shocked! We really put a bad taste in peoples mouth's that knew nothing about us, well they do now!

I take this sport serious, and as I've heard Gordy say "it's also serious fun!" Our meetings that happen 4 times a year are serious! We as club members have a very small window to figure out things and to get down to brass tax. Booze is not ever used effectively in these sort of situations.. I know that when I drink my mouth gets a little wider and my ears don't listen quite as well. Anybody that's been sober around people that are drinking know what I am talking about. If you were at that meeting and don't know how much more difficult it is to handle stressful situations while intoxicated, I think it's called denial..:(

I am guilty of the same thing at this meeting. I wasn't allowed into the meeting because my id expired and I hadn't realized it. So I left with a friend who came to join the club who couldn't come in for the same reason. It was his birthday though. SO we went down the road and I got us a pitcher. We split the pitcher and I was texted that the meeting was getting very nasty, and that I needed to really come and explain what has been happening on my end. When I got there I listened to the speakers until the chopping blade was pointed at me. I explained that I had followed the rules and that we as an association were in good standing with all of the entity's we work with. A very similar question was put at me again and yet again. At this point of time I lost my cool and I know the whole bar heard me. I apologize for this. Ordinarily I would not have yelled, but it was really hard not to when your answers are being discarded by people with preconceived notions of what they think has happened. I also wouldn't have been so fired up without that half of pitcher. I also wouldn't have had that if I would have stayed at the meeting.

The most important thing about this club is that we learn how to work together and create a positive association with our communities and with ourselves. This bickering is quite wearing and it's not fun. We had a no alcohol rule in place a year back or so, and our meetings were more corrigible. We have to learn from our mistakes and evolve, or keep rolling around in this nastiness :smash:

I also want to say thanks to Sean Johnson for his level voice.. I do not know you very well but the things I have heard you say and have read are as close to dead center as you could possibly be in our crazy group of disc golfers. If there is ever a "Moderator" position I think you would make for a very wise choice. I heard a member say, that even if they could tell you felt a certain way about an issue, you were still very interested in giving the other side a fair shake. Thanks again.. I am looking forward to working and seeing things improve for disc golfers here in Spokane!

[Parks]

Lyle was that meeting fun?

From my experience, most organized meetings aren't. This includes meetings about disc golf and everything else.

But on the other hand I had a sick and morbid kind of fun. The same kind of fun I have reading a lot of the NWDG forums.

Did you know that the bartender would not come and serve us because "she was afraid!?" Another group of patrons was "Waiting for the fight to happen!"

I didn't hear that, but I also didn't stick around afterward. However, at no point did I ever think a fight was going to break out.

Did you notice anybody getting ganged up on?

Obviously. My understanding of the reason for calling this meeting was to crucify you and Jeff.


What about not letting speakers finish questions, because somebody else blurted out another question, while the original question was being answered? Questions being asked the exact same way, several times is a clear cut case of either disrespect and not listening, OR too much ALCOHOL!

People either not being allowed to finish or rambling on/saying the same stuff over and over is a problem at every meeting, alcohol or not. I didn't find any of the worst offenders to be drunk. The people that I saw drink the most at this meeting were not really involved in the discussions either way. I think this has more to do with the personalities of people involved, whether or not they are sober.

I would hope that members with disagreements or not, would listen and respect one another. Everybody at that meeting deserves respect for what they have done in our community. For paying their $20.. For taking their time to show up. Everybody at a meeting should follow some very basic principals of meetings. We may need to add these to our charter.

1. We should listen to one another to find out whats happened.
2. Add what we think.
3. Make plans and motions and move on from there.

Absolutely.


I ask any one of you at that meeting to express to me how you would feel if you were badgered by a large group of people. A group that is not listening to your answers and doing whatever they can to piss you off and disrespect you???? I think that once again alchohol has played a huge role in drama at an SDGA club meeting. For some reason or another people think a meeting is a great place to drink. They can't seem to help but drink. It's really no wonder why the same questions were asked repeatedly.... I of course am drawing conclusions, but my experience has taught me that people that drink can easily resort to a mob mentality. Which is probably why we scared the all of the people in the same building as us.

For this reason I ask that the SDGA adopt a club meeting rule, that keeps all members attending a meeting, from drinking while at the meeting, or from being noticeably drunk.. I feel like if you can't meet for a couple hours without booze for a constructive club meeting, than maybe you should go to another type of meeting. A tasty micro is a great way to relax and enjoy time among friends, and a shot of whiskey helps too. :chug: There is a time and a place! If I am heated about something, DRINKING is the LAST THING I need to do!! That is a pretty good rule for humans. It takes an emotional situation, and turns into an explosive situation.:explode: Not the kind of positive atmosphere we should create in our community, or to the viewers of our community. I know that the people that were in that bar that were not a part of our situation were shocked! We really put a bad taste in peoples mouth's that knew nothing about us, well they do now!

I take this sport serious, and as I've heard Gordy say "it's also serious fun!" Our meetings that happen 4 times a year are serious! We as club members have a very small window to figure out things and to get down to brass tax. Booze is not ever used effectively in these sort of situations.. I know that when I drink my mouth gets a little wider and my ears don't listen quite as well. Anybody that's been sober around people that are drinking know what I am talking about. If you were at that meeting and don't know how much more difficult it is to handle stressful situations while intoxicated, I think it's called denial..:(

I am guilty of the same thing at this meeting. I wasn't allowed into the meeting because my id expired and I hadn't realized it. So I left with a friend who came to join the club who couldn't come in for the same reason. It was his birthday though. SO we went down the road and I got us a pitcher. We split the pitcher and I was texted that the meeting was getting very nasty, and that I needed to really come and explain what has been happening on my end. When I got there I listened to the speakers until the chopping blade was pointed at me. I explained that I had followed the rules and that we as an association were in good standing with all of the entity's we work with. A very similar question was put at me again and yet again. At this point of time I lost my cool and I know the whole bar heard me. I apologize for this. Ordinarily I would not have yelled, but it was really hard not to when your answers are being discarded by people with preconceived notions of what they think has happened. I also wouldn't have been so fired up without that half of pitcher. I also wouldn't have had that if I would have stayed at the meeting.

The most important thing about this club is that we learn how to work together and create a positive association with our communities and with ourselves. This bickering is quite wearing and it's not fun. We had a no alcohol rule in place a year back or so, and our meetings were more corrigible. We have to learn from our mistakes and evolve, or keep rolling around in this nastiness :smash:

I think placing the blame on alcohol is a bit of a straw man. If this meeting were dry, I could actually see it going very much the same way. That is unfortunate. People would rather argue than move forward, which is not how disc golf should be.

I also want to say thanks to Sean Johnson for his level voice.. I do not know you very well but the things I have heard you say and have read are as close to dead center as you could possibly be in our crazy group of disc golfers. If there is ever a "Moderator" position I think you would make for a very wise choice. I heard a member say, that even if they could tell you felt a certain way about an issue, you were still very interested in giving the other side a fair shake. Thanks again.. I am looking forward to working and seeing things improve for disc golfers here in Spokane!

Indeed.

[friable7]

Chill out??!?

Goddammit Tim, if I catch you in my backyard cutting my shrubs with a chainsaw without permission again I'm going to snap. I will not chill out!

How many times do I have to apologize, Lyle!? I am powerless over power tools!!!!

I admit it was a bad idea to think the entire neighborhood would want all their plants cut into the shape of Mach 3 baskets.

I am back on the medication and the group therapy sessions are really helping me learn about how to contol my impulses.

The judge said no power tools or the use of anything sharper than the leading edge of JK Aviar without adult supervision and I aim to behave!

There, now everyone knows and I feel much better. :shocked:

[psychodwarf]

How many times do I have to apologize, Lyle!? I am powerless over power tools!!!!

I admit it was a bad idea to think the entire neighborhood would want all their plants cut into the shape of Mach 3 baskets.

I am back on the medication and the group therapy sessions are really helping me learn about how to contol my impulses.

The judge said no power tools or the use of anything sharper than the leading edge of JK Aviar without adult supervision and I aim to behave!

There, now everyone knows and I feel much better. :shocked:

shame on you tim for falling off your med wagon .. :slapface::nono:

[Yoduh]

Good to see you up there Tim. I was happy to see you not shaking without power tools a buzzing, congrats on your recovery. Remember, one day at a time!!

[Wobbly Bob]

How did the benefit do yesterday?:rockon: How many golfers showed and how much was raised?:cheerleader:

[friable7]

Good to see you up there Tim. I was happy to see you not shaking without power tools a buzzing, congrats on your recovery. Remember, one day at a time!!

Thanks for showing me around the area. Yeah, I feel good knowing that shrubbery need not fear Mr. Tim anymore...! :)

[friable7]

shame on you tim for falling off your med wagon .. :slapface::nono:

Yeah, what was I thinkin'...!:bricks:

[tomw]

How did the benefit do yesterday?:rockon: How many golfers showed and how much was raised?:cheerleader:
I enjoyed the first round played with my dbls partner Pete Wilson :) ,even just getting over my cold couldn't stop the fun we all had on the hill. Thanks Jeremy & Jeff and others for a damn good start on the newest course in Spokane. Tee flags w/ distances on every bucket hole we played.
Playing this "proposed, preliminarily designed dg course, Crumkani was damn fun. It reminded my in parts to some of our other wooded course's like Down river, Corbin, FSP. I played only the lower course, and only one time, but I was not disappointed with dumb holes. The design and flow of this course felt smooth and unprecarious. Jeff and Jeremy showed to me and Peter piles of "existing" brush that were here and there all over the proposed land/ course. Most of these slash looking piles were already on the land before and work started, i could see that. Some were created by picking up or clearing the ground of the natural corridors. Some where from making corridors. What i saw on the ground compared to what it came from, ie, the forest is actually quit small.There is still a full forest of threes and shrubs there. Over in Idaho forest service workers refer to small pine trees as "weeds' due to there resilience and rapid growth . To describe what i saw as "Outlaw Bushwhacking" seem's a gross exaggeration.
If the issue isn't the course itself, but the fact you feel uninvited, sdga, Do you think that you could get over that disappointment and put behind yourself's the disdain you have towards Jeff Crum and Jeremy Thornton? This isnt the first time you have shown misgivings, to put it mildly, towards these club members.
As Cory said, all dg ers love throwing disc's into baskets and a new place to do that would be like a kid in a candy store. I feel like a kid taping on the storefront window trying to get the attention of a new little puppy, wanting baskets to throw to. This location is closer than Dnrvr and Hbdg to me, and imo the beginnings of a great course. Im anticipating the next time i get the opportunity to play it without snow. If i were a club member:pirate:, i would put my support behind this PROPOSED COURSE:shocked:

[Wobbly Bob]

Tom, My support is 100 % behind disc golf at Camp Sekani and as soon as possible. :cheerleader::cheerleader:

My inquiry was to identify how many players were at the benefit round and how much was raised at the benefit. :trophy:

This is information that should be shared with the Board and the members of the club. :posting:

[General Scales]

Jeremy,

Is there any significant changes that happened to the Jamboree course? Are you available to lead a couple people around tomorrow?

Stu

[Sky Pilot]

Jeremy,

Is there any significant changes that happened to the Jamboree course? Are you available to lead a couple people around tomorrow?

Stu

I don't know about Jeremy, but I will be there for a while tomorrow if I can help.

let me know.

Sky Pilot

[General Scales]

Anyone in the valley able to pick me up for this? I live off Sullivan. Got gas money and beer money to sweeten the deal.

[bstullis]

To the Baord, if there is a need for neutral parties at meetings, find one of the many disc golferes who are on the outside looking at joining but waiting for the drama to subside and have them join as a prospective member,just to get a taste of the local politics (biggest reason I'm not a member) .

To the leaders of the opposition (because that's where things seem to stand from my POV): Preliminary means suggested but not final. I respect the work on your part to design and implement a course that will be an attraction for many years to come, but being sworn to secrecy for an entire year, then everything happening all at once without Board input and approval seems a breach of trust.

I would love to join an association that has everyone's interests at heart, but lurking here for a year an a half leads me to believe I need to wait a while and not join either side until the congressional infighting has abated.

[ScottW]

I would love to join an association that has everyone's interests at heart, but lurking here for a year an a half leads me to believe I need to wait a while and not join either side until the congressional infighting has abated.

I must say I have to agree with many, if not all, of your points. I was an SDGA member in the past but have not found a good reason to rejoin in its current state. I live in the Valley and am also a bit reluctant to join the Disc Golf Uprising (if for no other reason than the fact that it sounds like a tyranny waiting to happen). Perhaps the North Idaho Disc Golf Club would be a good suiter for your membership - especially if you live in the Valley. They have been doing many good things to help make Corbin Park DGC and Cherry Hill DGC better, have had input with Heyburn State Park about their possible addition of disc golf and is in VERY good standing with both the city of Post Falls and Coeur d'Alene. We all seem to work pretty wel together despite our differences and differences of opinion.

[General Scales]

I must say I have to agree with many, if not all, of your points. I was an SDGA member in the past but have not found a good reason to rejoin in its current state. I live in the Valley and am also a bit reluctant to join the Disc Golf Uprising (if for no other reason than the fact that it sounds like a tyranny waiting to happen). Perhaps the North Idaho Disc Golf Club would be a good suiter for your membership - especially if you live in the Valley. They have been doing many good things to help make Corbin Park DGC and Cherry Hill DGC better, have had input with Heyburn State Park about their possible addition of disc golf and is in VERY good standing with both the city of Post Falls and Coeur d'Alene. We all seem to work pretty wel together despite our differences and differences of opinion.

Not to mention they are home of the number 1 rated player in Idaho. Scott, you hijacked the thread!

[ScottW]

Not to mention they are home of the number 1 rated player in Idaho. Scott, you hijacked the thread!

No I didn`t! It was already hijacked. I just provided him a possible solution to his dilemma:D you hijacked it further:p

Let us digress

Camp Sekani...

[bstullis]

I must say I have to agree with many, if not all, of your points. I was an SDGA member in the past but have not found a good reason to rejoin in its current state. I live in the Valley and am also a bit reluctant to join the Disc Golf Uprising (if for no other reason than the fact that it sounds like a tyranny waiting to happen). Perhaps the North Idaho Disc Golf Club would be a good suiter for your membership - especially if you live in the Valley. They have been doing many good things to help make Corbin Park DGC and Cherry Hill DGC better, have had input with Heyburn State Park about their possible addition of disc golf and is in VERY good standing with both the city of Post Falls and Coeur d'Alene. We all seem to work pretty wel together despite our differences and differences of opinion.


Just wanna say,LOVE CORBIN!!!. got my first tourney plastic there last year (10th AM dev at the open) but live on south hill Spokane 5 min from work at SHMC. Hope to play the Corbin open again if scheduling permits. I have to say I was very impressed at the lack of politicking at the tourney and the fun had by all. I would love to get more serious but don't play/compete Sunday so most tourneys are out for me unless they start doing Friday/ Saturday tourneys ( but that is a whole other hijacking in the making).
It is a very tempting prospect especially since my goal this season is to play cherry hill and Farragut (trying to convince the wife and kiddies that it would make for a great camping trip) :angel:

So for now, I will remain DG-clubless and hope for the best. I will have to hope I can get good enough without the support of the clubs, but may just end up asking for DG lessons for my b-day this year and more tourney playing money next year (or maybe PDGA membership for starters):D .

[bstullis]

Back to the thread. Drove past sekani yesterday and found the drive fully worthwhile, now just waiting for the snow to melt to get out to explore the new course. Is there a course map that would make a first timers going any easier (the only way to get around downriver my first time was with the map in my pocket and a guide to point out the less obvious next tee placement). And bucket courses... just have to hit the bucket? So the challenge is in the terrain and fairway?
Thanks for the help, advice &, whatnot.

[tomw]

Just wanna say,LOVE CORBIN!!!. got my first tourney plastic there last year (10th AM dev at the open) but live on south hill Spokane 5 min from work at SHMC. Hope to play the Corbin open again if scheduling permits. I have to say I was very impressed at the lack of politicking at the tourney and the fun had by all. I would love to get more serious but don't play/compete Sunday so most tourneys are out for me unless they start doing Friday/ Saturday tourneys ( but that is a whole other hijacking in the making).
It is a very tempting prospect especially since my goal this season is to play cherry hill and Farragut (trying to convince the wife and kiddies that it would make for a great camping trip) :angel:

So for now, I will remain DG-clubless and hope for the best. I will have to hope I can get good enough without the support of the clubs, but may just end up asking for DG lessons for my b-day this year and more tourney playing money next year (or maybe PDGA membership for starters):D .

Ben, good to see that you love Corbin. A fine jewel of a course imo! Check out the Corbin Park thread............., TW

[coryreu]

Not to mention they are home of the number 1 rated player in Idaho.
:shocked:

[Yoduh]

Back to the thread. Drove past sekani yesterday and found the drive fully worthwhile, now just waiting for the snow to melt to get out to explore the new course. Is there a course map that would make a first timers going any easier (the only way to get around downriver my first time was with the map in my pocket and a guide to point out the less obvious next tee placement). And bucket courses... just have to hit the bucket? So the challenge is in the terrain and fairway?
Thanks for the help, advice &, whatnot.

Yeah, I have a number, use it.. lol First tee is right above the upper lot. Follow the pink ribbons from the buckets to the next tee. Hit the bucket move on. Flags mark the tee's for the most part. snow marked some down but most are findable.. I think they all are.. Some only have one though.

[SeanT00]

Has anyone put together a satellite map of the course showing the layout yet? Now that the snow is melting off I would like to get up there and check it out!

[The Stranger]

Played Sekani again today. Liked some of the changes since the first time I played. So when do we break ground and get some baskets in?

[Simmeltron]

I just lost my white DX Roc at Sekani yesterday as it was getting dark. After finishing the course, we had a driving range session just behind bucket 18 (of Jamboree) into the big field. I *thought* the disc anny'd towards the treeline to the right but had no luck recovering it. If anybody happens upon it next time they are out I'd greatly appreciate getting it back! Thanks!

Name and number should be on disc.

[SeanT00]

I had a wild throw from hole 15 (the long throw from the rock)? Anyways, got a dark blue Boss stuck way up in the first tall tree to the right. I'm guessing the wind will knock it down eventually, but the number on the back is an old one. Name should be Sean T and new number is (509) 232-9648 if anyone comes across it. Love the course!!

Thanks

[Simmeltron]

From the Sekani FB group (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Disc-Golf-Uprising-presents-Camp-Sekani/110030465792965)

"Disc Golf Uprising is holding it's first club meeting Monday, March 5th at 6:30 at Smacky's on Broadway. It is west of the Broadway exit just past Zips. They have delicious sandwich's. BBQ is the special that day and I have to say it is amazing! We will have lots of new information and a nice game plan on how we can build our new disc golf courses. New memberships will be available. There are several levels of membership's available including family discount memberships. Bag Tag's will also be available for order to use during our weekly leagues. Hope to see you there!"

[Stimpi]

I just lost my white DX Roc at Sekani yesterday as it was getting dark. After finishing the course, we had a driving range session just behind bucket 18 (of Jamboree) into the big field. I *thought* the disc anny'd towards the treeline to the right but had no luck recovering it. If anybody happens upon it next time they are out I'd greatly appreciate getting it back! Thanks!

Name and number should be on disc.

Got it.
It's here, at the Ridge.
Stimpi

[Simmeltron]

Got it.
It's here, at the Ridge.
Stimpi

Right on thanks a ton Stimpi!

[General Scales]

Played at Sekani yesterday. First time in quite awhile. Love the changes that have happened on the lower course. The lower par four (I think it's called whoop de doo's) is fantastic. Especially from the pro pad. Favorite new hole on the course.

With that being said, if somebody happens to come across my orange ESP Predator, it'd be great if they'd snag it. Threw it on a giant hyzer off 14 and stuck in the top of the split tree's. I'm pretty sure it's going to be stuck for awhile. Name and number are on it but the number no longer works. I'm pretty sure most people know who I am so if you see me and you have it, reward will be given.

[Lothiam]

Is Sekani open for public play or is it by appointment or for tournament only. I am curious to check it out.

[Simmeltron]

Is Sekani open for public play or is it by appointment or for tournament only. I am curious to check it out.

Totally open for public play. Buckets in place with tee signs (hole number, par, and distance) on trees. Last time I played Jamboree (the lower course) there were little pink streamers leading from the bucket to the next tee. Enjoy!

[Lothiam]

Totally open for public play. Buckets in place with tee signs (hole number, par, and distance) on trees. Last time I played Jamboree (the lower course) there were little pink streamers leading from the bucket to the next tee. Enjoy!

Great Thanks. I will look to get a group out there soon.

[Dadio!]

What is best way for those of us w/o facebook to get involved and help? This course is close to home and would love to help make it the beautiful site it can be. :-)

[Yoduh]

What is best way for those of us w/o facebook to get involved and help? This course is close to home and would love to help make it the beautiful site it can be. :-)

Sent you a pm..