Alton Baker Park Eugene - Public Input Needed - Last Chance

[Matt B.]

I'm posting this in "Disc Golf" because I think it's about more than just the new course at Alton Baker.

For those who haven't been following the situation, here it is in a nutshell: The City of Eugene has had one 9-hole disc golf course since 1988. About three years ago we started to see some movement with the City and eventually they chose Alton Baker Park as the site for a proposed 18 hole course. Multiple public input meetings, two public surveys, several one and two day tournaments on different layouts, and recently three "trial days" that were overwhelmingly successful.

The Oregon Track Club which maintains "Pre's Trail" in Alton Baker waited over 18 months and until the last possible moment for public input to raise objections to the proposed course, initially citing "safety concerns". More delay, more public input. The OTC asked for a walk-through of the course. Then they asked for the "trial days" so they could see what it would look like. The trial days were beyond expectation, with over 1000 rounds played and zero reported safety incidents or concerns.

The Oregon Track Club has now started a public media campaign against the proposal, but they've dropped any mention of safety concerns and now cite possible affects on the "ambiance" of the running trail. Essentially, they think that people will stop running on Pre's trail if they have to see disc golfers. They have had a meeting with the Mayor, published an opinion piece, and they followed that up by somehow convincing a reporter to write a story that repeated every single thing that was in the opinion piece.

The City of Eugene is again interested in public input and will be making their final decision on moving forward with the proposal in the next few weeks. We need to stand up for disc golf in Eugene now or we will never be taken seriously.

They WANT you to contact them. If you live in Eugene this is especially crucial, but everyone who wants a disc golf course in Alton Baker should contact them. Tell them how much you travel to play disc golf and how many courses you have where you are.

BE POLITE, BE BRIEF, BE POSITIVE.

Some points to consider:


Pre's Trail is four miles long. The disc golf course is only visible along 800 feet of the trail! The disc golf course design has been proven beyond any doubt to be safe.

The citizens of Eugene own Alton Baker Park, not the Oregon Track Club. One organization should not be allowed to deny anyone access to recreation in a public park.

You would travel X number of miles to play this course.

Disc golf is a game for people of all ages and walks of life.

We'd like to see the City follow through with their plans.

BE POLITE, BE BRIEF, BE POSITIVE.

Emails are easy, phone calls are great, and letters are even better. Please include your full name and the City you live in however you contact these folks.

The people to contact, and please contact them all:

Kitty Piercy
kitty.piercy@ci.eugene.or.us
(541) 682-5010
The Honorable Kitty Piercy
777 Pearl Street, Room 105
Eugene, Oregon 97401

Neil Bjorklund
neil.h.bjorklund@ci.eugene.or.us
(541)682-4909
Parks and Open Space Planning Manager
City of Eugene, Parks and Open Space Division
1820 Roosevelt Blvd.
Eugene, OR 97402

Philip Richardson
Philip.S.Richardson@ci.eugene.or.us
(541)682-4906
Landscape Architect
City of Eugene, Parks and Open Space Division
1820 Roosevelt Blvd.
Eugene, OR 97402

Dave Battaglia
dave.f.battaglia@ci.eugene.or.us
541-682-5212
Eugene Athletics Program
2700 Hilyard Street
Eugene, OR 97405-3686

Johnny Medlin
johnny.r.medlin@ci.eugene.or.us
City of Eugene, Parks and Open Space Division
1820 Roosevelt Blvd.
Eugene, OR 97402
541 -682-4930

For Eugeneans:

Your City Council Representative
777 Pearl St. Room 105
Eugene, OR 97401
mayorcouncilandcitymanager@ci.eugene.or.us

Eugene Weekly letters to the editor can be sent to:
editor@eugeneweekly.com

Register Guard letters to the editor (250 words or less, full name, address and telephone number) can be sent to:
rgletters@registerguard.com



BE POLITE, BE BRIEF, BE POSITIVE.

These people know they need to provide disc golf, and they know what disc golfers think. But they want you to tell them one more time so they can tell the Oregon Track Club that the disc golf course is going forward. You don't have to convince them, just let them know how you feel.

The sooner the better, and the more the better. Please forward this info to anyone you think wants to see more disc golf in Eugene, and please contact these people today.

Thanks!

[Rebecca]

I'm a little disheartened at the lack of responses on this thread. We are asking for your help- we need your help. We have worked so hard for this course and we have ONE club trying to take that away.
We have many disc golf clubs in Oregon. We are not asking for money, we are asking for a phone call, email, or a letter. Can we not come together for this one thing?
I know this is not the prime area for a lot of you but this course could break the stagnant mold in Eugene. The same mold that has held us to a nine hole course for 23 years.

Please respond just to let us know that you've sent some kind of communication to the city of Eugene.

[wyattearp67]

Just sent my emails off. Get them going folks we need this course.

[Rebecca]

Just sent my emails off. Get them going folks we need this course.

Thank you very much:)

[General Scales]

Even though I live in Spokane I've actually sent a few emails myself. I don't think that 1 nine hole course in Eugene is enough. I'm especially set back by the appalling behavior of the running club. I understand they want to protect their investment but they seem to be a little overzealous with their fears.

Hope it all works out for you golfers down there. Remember this when I have to petition the Spokane Valley Parks and Recreation to get at least 1 course in the Spokane Valley :)

[DexterHawk]

Emails written... Thanks for the support everyone!

[Jim J]

Emails written... Thanks for the support everyone!

Don't mean to sound like an old fogey, but actual, written letters trump emails in the minds of our elected and non-elected officials.

So email and then snail mail. And then we'll meet down at City Hall and spell out messages with our bodies by laying down and making letters in the middle of Sixth Avenue.

If we stay there long enough, we may get pictured on Google Earth.

I may also look into organizing a 5K fun run/walk on Pre's Trail with proceeds going to support DG in Alton Baker.

[bryan_luoma]

I just mailed letters to Kitty, Dave, Neil, and Philip showing my support for disc golf in ABP.

[Rebecca]

Thank you so much--- I would be happy to help anyone get in a course. (Spokane valley). Just let me know:)

[Jason Philips]

I wrote up an email in support and hopefully it helps. I did express that my son and I would likely travel to play. Also I expressed that as out-of-towners we would be spending money in Eugene.

Best of luck on this issue.

[wyattearp67]

I just got a return email from the Mayor Kitty Piercy. So they are reading and addressing these emails and letters. Here is what she wrote to me.
(I think disc golf is great and attracts a lot of folks from out of town. The problem is the strong opposition from the track club and the Prefontaine family. It’s a conundrum. I wish we had another local. Kitty) I sent email yesterday and have reply today. Lets get on this folks send them in (emails letters etc) she and they are reading them and trying to make this happen.

[Jason Philips]

Same sort of response I received. Is there a nice way to basically tell her it is not a private park and one family or group should not receive preferential treatment even disc golfers.

[wyattearp67]

Same sort of response I received. Is there a nice way to basically tell her it is not a private park and one family or group should not receive preferential treatment even disc golfers.

I sent an email back stating the same thing telling her the argument is over 8oo ft of a 4 mile trail. her response was that they dont and wont be making the decision (the OTC) and that they (OTC) have spent lots of time and personal money keeping the trail up but she agreed that it is all of our park.
After getting Her last response it seems to me more than ever that we need non disc golfers to send in these emails. I saw some guy on the Eugene disc golf club facebook page with a discer and a memeber of the club who wants to help get it in. We should take advantage of a guy like this who is in both worlds.

[Matt B.]

I sent an email back stating the same thing telling her the argument is over 8oo ft of a 4 mile trail. her response was that they dont and wont be making the decision (the OTC) and that they (OTC) have spent lots of time and personal money keeping the trail up but she agreed that it is all of our park.
After getting Her last response it seems to me more than ever that we need non disc golfers to send in these emails. I saw some guy on the Eugene disc golf club facebook page with a discer and a memeber of the club who wants to help get it in. We should take advantage of a guy like this who is in both worlds.

Thanks everyone. I am in touch with Josh, mentioned above. He's a mediator and that is great, but when one side has made all concessions and one side is waging a dishonest media campaign, there is not a lot to mediate.

If someone on the list emails back and you see a simple, short point you can make to their reply, then feel free to do so briefly and politely. Beyond that just say thanks.

[Jason Philips]

In the Burning Man world we are required to stipulate cleanup and impact studies in order to continue the event. In what means can the disc golf community step up to meet the expectations of the city with regards to land use. I understand their are outside parties influencing decision but sometimes a great idea requires follow-up that can be documented. Showing such a plan may help to put the city back in favor.

[Matt B.]

In the Burning Man world we are required to stipulate cleanup and impact studies in order to continue the event. In what means can the disc golf community step up to meet the expectations of the city with regards to land use. I understand their are outside parties influencing decision but sometimes a great idea requires follow-up that can be documented. Showing such a plan may help to put the city back in favor.

This proposal is the result of a two-plus year planning process where every last detail and contingency has been designed, vetted, analyzed, feedbacked, modified, vetted again, feedbacked again, etc. The site would never have been chosen by the City in the first place if there were any possible ecological, economic, or social impacts that were unacceptable. This is Eugene. And this is not a Eugene Disc Golf Club proposal, it is a City of Eugene proposal.

It is a proposal for a pay to play course that would pay for itself, provide small business jobs, income for the City, and meet unmet maintenance needs for the park while providing affordable and long overdue recreation opportunities to regular people in a time of shrinking budgets.

It's a no-brainer. But we're in Eugene, and our public process often looks like it has no brains.

[hyzerbomb]

letters and emails have been sent, c'mon folks we NEED public input now.

[the_lung]

http://kezi.com/news/local/221952

[Sam]

The comments take some of my anger away.

But... This woman seems like a total jerk who should mind her own f'ing business. "We need a trail to remember my brother who was actually quite a jerk, too!"

[Sam]

Sorry, Matt. Better? :)

[Matt B.]

Sorry, Matt. Better? :)

Who loves ya, baby!?

[Scott]

From the comments: "Surly we can't have discs flying of the memorial trial, of course not, we wouldn't want to taint the reputation of this famous drunk driver. "

[prettyboyfloyd]

269 words of that article are about her, 82 are about how 90% of the people surveyed who run the trail weren't bothered by the disc golf course. I'm so glad I live in Corvallis.

[Matt B.]

269 words of that article are about her, 82 are about how 90% of the people surveyed who run the trail weren't bothered by the disc golf course. I'm so glad I live in Corvallis.

As a Eugenean who plays a LOT of golf in Corvallis and has always supported the WDGC and appreciated what they do, I understand your feelings and sincerely hope you will provide similar feedback to either the list of officials upthread or the media outlet in question or both or more. Thanks!

[NWDiscer]

Sent 1 off to all 4.

It appears that Mr. Richardson is out of his office this week Monday thru today. lets make sure his email box is fullish.

Go Eugene :cheerleader:

[prettyboyfloyd]

I already have e-mailed all, nice and brief. Mentioned how people run all over Willamette park and how I've never heard a peep from those folks about the (pretty much always crowded) disc golf course.

[Matt B.]

I already have e-mailed all, nice and brief. Mentioned how people run all over Willamette park and how I've never heard a peep from those folks about the (pretty much always crowded) disc golf course.

Thank you!

[Huk'nGeiks]

Please respond just to let us know that you've sent some kind of communication to the city of Eugene.

Just saw this....sent off letters to all. I really hope this happens!

ps. The extended disc golf community in Oregon never fails to surprise me. Thanks for the all the support from outside the Eug!

[Matt B.]

Don't mean to sound like an old fogey, but actual, written letters trump emails in the minds of our elected and non-elected officials.

So email and then snail mail. And then we'll meet down at City Hall and spell out messages with our bodies by laying down and making letters in the middle of Sixth Avenue.

If we stay there long enough, we may get pictured on Google Earth.

I may also look into organizing a 5K fun run/walk on Pre's Trail with proceeds going to support DG in Alton Baker.

A great letter in today's Register Guard by our own Jim J.

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/26751171-47/letters-aug-club-letter-trail.html.csp

Excellent job Jim, Thank You!

Also, George Schroeder, the RG lead Sports Columnist was obviously approached by OTC and Neta Prefontaine to tell their side of the story. Too bad he basically stayed neutral and then concluded by telling them that Pre probably would have liked disc golf and they should learn how to get along with others!

http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/26768981-41/disc-trail-pre-golf-course.html.csp

We're making some progress here, if you haven't expressed your opinion yet, please do so by reading the original post in this thread and taking five minutes to support and promote disc golf.

Thank you to everyone who has already done so, we are making a difference!

[General Scales]

A great letter in today's Register Guard by our own Jim. J.

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/26751171-47/letters-aug-club-letter-trail.html.csp

Excellent job Jim, Thank You!

Also, George Schroeder, the RG lead Sports Columnist was obviously approached by OTC, and Neta Prefontaine to tell their side of the story. Too bad he basically stayed neutral and then concluded by telling them that Pre probably would have liked disc golf and they should learn how to get along with others!

http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/26768981-41/disc-trail-pre-golf-course.html.csp

We're making some progress here, if you haven't expressed your opinion yet, please do so by reading the original post in this thread and taking five minutes to support and promote disc golf.

Thank you to everyone who has already done so, we are making a difference!

Jim your the man!

[Flatroc]

Here's a thought.
It's the Oregon Track Club right? Not the Eugene Track Club. Perhaps someone could approach runners from elsewhere in the state where there has already been a test of interaction between the two activities. Maybe you could find some 'case histories' in which it's worked or not.

[Scott]

Here's a thought.
It's the Oregon Track Club right? Not the Eugene Track Club. Perhaps someone could approach runners from elsewhere in the state where there has already been a test of interaction between the two activities. Maybe you could find some 'case histories' in which it's worked or not.

I love the thinking, but I really don't think the OTC will be convinced. They will keep up the attack until the course, or the possiblility of the course, is gone.

This isn't about disc golf or saftey. It's Eugene. Running is sacred. It's a religion, Pre is their God, and the trail is a church.

[Matt B.]

If you read the original post, you can see that this isn't about having to prove if a running trail can co-exist with a disc golf course. They do all the time in many places. This course has been designed and tested on multiple occassions as part of a two year public planning process. On the recent trial days several hundred people played over 1300 rounds, resulting in a conservative estimate of 75000 throws. No reported safety incidents.

However, disc golf isn't invisible. This issue has boiled down to whether it's more important to provide a recreational opportunity for the people of Eugene that has come out of a two year public planning process with overwhelming public support, or to make sure that runners on Pre's Trail don't have to see and hear other park users (except the ones they already see and hear every day: the non-runners using the trail, the dog walkers, the kids, the transient campers, etc) in the few moments it takes them to run 800 feet.

[Bullseye]

I hate to say it, but this running organization sounds like a bunch of selfish snobs who feel everything should revolve around THEM. What happened to people having the ability to share resources? Just like so many problematic issues these days, its just another sad case of intolerance.

[Matt B.]

I hate to say it, but this running organization sounds like a bunch of selfish snobs who feel everything should revolve around THEM. What happened to people having the ability to share resources? Just like so many problematic issues these days, its just another sad case of intolerance.

This is Eugene, where everything is an "issue" and for every public topic the people saying NO almost always trump getting anything done. Even when it's a long public process with clear results, as long as a group (usually an influential one) says NO loudly enough, things don't happen or more typically we start another process.

There won't be another process this time. We either get this course proposal going forward (and there are still significant hurdles after this one) or we can forget about more disc golf in Eugene for at least 10 years. 23 years since we've had anything moving for disc golf in Eugene, and if they think we're going to be stopped over 800 feet of ambience they've got another think coming. :shooting:

But to be fair, it is not really the membership of OTC, it's a few of the OTC board members. I have not heard of any OTC rank and file members who give two bleeps about the proposal, and I don't know that the board is unanimous.

[TalesOfMayorDog]

Don't the running trails extend well into Springfield?

Not to mention the bike path along the river for miles.

That is maddening to hear as the park is public.

[TalesOfMayorDog]

I sent an email to the Mayor too.

[essjay]

http://www.kval.com/news/local/128622688.html

Just saw this article.

[Eagle01]

Just sent email, please God let this happen, Eugene NEEDS more courses

[Matt B.]

Lots of good stuff this week in the Eugene media.

We had a Guest Viewpoint published on Sunday:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/26761321-47/disc-golf-course-trail-eugene.html.csp

That was followed by a great letter from Mat Beecher on Monday:

http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/26751186-47/eugene-disc-county-letters-animal.html.csp

Then, the aforementioned "news" story and web article by KVAL in which Neta Prefontaine continues her campaign against the course which unfortunately relies on a lot of misinformation. But here's the great part - check out the comments! Several disc golfers chime in but so do several non-disc golfers, almost all of them supporting the proposal:

http://www.kval.com/news/local/128622688.html

And yesterday Andrew Rich was able to get KEZI, the other local TV station that ran a similar "news" story to come back to the park and hear the facts about the course. So far, no word if KVAL will do the same but you will notice on the KVAL web story that they are using Andrew's course maps that clearly show how little the trail will be affected. Excellent job Andrew, keep on them!

The KEZI story:

http://kezi.com/news/local/222539

We are hopefully making some progress with the decision makers. Please see the first post in this thread for ways you can help, and thank you to everyone who has already done so!

[M.Parker]

emails sent. hopefully soon the OTC and disc golfers will all be running through alton baker park together, hand in hand, sunshine and pixie dust......and hucking plastic!!!:rockon: Good luck with getting your course approved guys. GO DUCKS!

[Toby Puttzinski]

I just read through the thread and will send a few e-mails off tomorrow.

This small fraction of the trail wouldn't have to be taken out or rerouted, so it's difficult to understand why they're going to such lengths to 'preserve' it.
I'm sure there's hundreds of examples, but Lakewood Park/ DGC in Seattle often gets used for high school cross-country meets. The running 'course' uses much of the grounds, and there has never (to my knowledge) been any issue with either party sharing the park.

[wyattearp67]

So has anyone heard of what the city has decided on the Alton Baker course? I had a friend the other day that said he had heard they were doing it.

[Matt B.]

So has anyone heard of what the city has decided on the Alton Baker course? I had a friend the other day that said he had heard they were doing it.

There has been no official announcement that I am aware of, and the planner in charge has assured me we will be notified when they are ready.

Unofficially we have heard that some version of the proposal will continue to go forward. I'm pretty certain it will not be what we were hoping for and that the Oregon Track Club will be happy with the decision.

But let's wait until the City officially announces something, hopefully soon.

[wyattearp67]

There has been no official announcement that I am aware of, and the planner in charge has assured me we will be notified when they are ready.

Unofficially we have heard that some version of the proposal will continue to go forward. I'm pretty certain it will not be what we were hoping for and that the Oregon Track Club will be happy with the decision.

But let's wait until the City officially announces something, hopefully soon.

Thanks Matt

[Bullseye]

Just got this Email...


The City of Eugene Parks and Open Space Division has issued a decision on the proposed West Alton Baker Park Disc Golf Course.

Excerpt:

"Due to on-going stakeholder concerns about a disc golf course that would enclose a portion of Pre's Running Trail on both sides, we are approving a modified area for disc golf that will not cross to the north side of Pre's Trail."


To read the full decision, including a map of the modified area and a summary of the public involvement process, please visit the Disc Golf webpage: www.eugene-or.gov/discgolf

For further information, please contact Neil Bjorklund at 541-682-4800.


_________________________
Philip Richardson
Landscape Architect
Eugene Parks & Open Space Division

[jeverett]

Yep, for anyone interested, the decision document can be found here:

http://www.eugene-or.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_305_370649_0_0_18/WABP_Disc_Golf_Course_Decision.pdf

Just to quickly sum it up.. the course is a go, however it can use even less space than it previously did.. no crossing Pre's trail at all now. I'm honestly a little doubtful a full 18-holes can even fit in the left-over space.. holes 2-5(?) from the most-recent course layout are what's out. That's roughly 650-700ft. of fairways gone.

[Matt B.]

You have to love the 4:30 pm Friday announcement. In a nutshell: no 18 hole course, still has to be pay-to-play or completely funded and maintained by a third party.

Will people pay to play a short 12-15 hole course? Can a vendor make a living and maintain a course just selling discs and maybe snacks?

Stay tuned for another 12-18 months and find out.

[jeverett]

I agree.. the pay-to-play issue gets more and more grating as the course gets pushed around more and more. As a 12-hole, white-level (PDGA Difficulty Rating), pay-to-play course, how much revenue can the course operator expect? How much would you pay to play it?

As an 18-hole course, Alton Baker Park represents a good alternative to the ~18 mile (one way) trip out to Dexter or Cottage Grove. I just checked my scorebook.. last year, I drove at least as far as one of those two courses 50 out of 54 weekends. So while Alton Baker park would be shorter and pay-to-play, I could still potentially save quite a lot of money in gas costs playing it. Just to math it out.. Alton Baker Park is ~3 miles from my house, and Dexter/the Grove are ~18 miles from my house.. so:

50 trips to Alton Baker Park vs 50 trips to Dexter/the Grove would save me approximately $212.00 annually (that's assuming $4.00 per gallon, and my vehicle gets 22mpg city and 27mpg freeway). Now I probably wouldn't play Alton Baker Park every weekend.. Dexter and the Grove are still more challenging courses.. so probably I could pay $100.00 annually to play Alton Baker Park as an 18-hole course and still save money.

As a 12-hole course, though.. Alton Baker Park would only really replace Summer evening (after work) disc golf at Westmoreland, and maybe 4 weekends a year when I don't quite have enough time to make the trip to Dexter or the Grove. Yes, Alton Baker Park would be a lot less crowded (hopefully) than Westmoreland on fair-weather evenings.. but that's not worth a lot to me (after all, I play Westmoreland and don't complain about the long wait). Alton Baker Park is also a little more challenging than Westy.. I can chalk up -10 over 18-holes at Westy on a normal day, and I haven't done better than -7 over 18-holes at Alton Baker Park so far. So that's worth a little. Plus, the four weekends a year might save me ~$17.00 annually in gas costs vs. having to drive to Dexter or the Grove. So I'd probably be fine with paying $30.00 annually to play a 12-hole Alton Baker Park as much as I'd like.. but much more than that and I'd stick with Westmoreland for the vast majority of evening rounds.

Can a vendor actually recoup installation costs and make a profit in a reasonable time frame if that's all I'm willing to pay to play the course? I'm not optimistic.

[Magilla]

Yes it Sucks that the original layout will need to be modified. BUT why dont you go with a HUGE 9 hole layout that has 2 different tees that play very differently from each other. Then 2 laps make a nice 18 holes.

On the "pay to play/Vendor subject". The right vendor could do very well here.
The $ is NOT made on the course play. It's made on the Snack/Drink/Disc sales.
Just ask Snapper Pierson in San Diego.
:wink2:

Some times we need to just make the best out of what we get.

:cheers:

[jeverett]

Yes it Sucks that the original layout will need to be modified. BUT why dont you go with a HUGE 9 hole layout that has 2 different tees that play very differently from each other. Then 2 laps make a nice 18 holes.

On the "pay to play/Vendor subject". The right vendor could do very well here.
The $ is NOT made on the course play. It's made on the Snack/Drink/Disc sales.
Just ask Snapper Pierson in San Diego.
:wink2:

Some times we need to just make the best out of what we get.

:cheers:

Hi magilla,

Yeah, I can see two tees per hole working o.k., providing course traffic is low enough. With the 500 person-rounds the Alton Baker Park course was seeing on the three test days, though, packing that many people into 9 holes is going to produce considerably longer wait times than Westmoreland in the Summer.

As for the vendor selling snacks/drinks/discs.. I agree that most of the revenue for a pay-to-play course might be made there, however to my knowledge there still has been no word from the City of Eugene as to if a vendor would even be allowed to sell anything at the course. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, though. Further, adding some kind of 'pro shop' means that a vendor would need two employees actually on the premises, instead of one. Because the vendor would not be allowed to simply collect fees for parking, one employee would actually need to be on the course during operational hours, to make sure that golfers are all paying to play.

I'm all for 'making the best of what we get'.. and I'm not in any way trying to make a claim that pay-to-play isn't the future of disc golf, but in this case aren't we actually 'making the best of what we now have to pay for'? The function of pay-to-play disc golf is to allow disc golf to come out from the shadow of City/County/State/etc. ownership. As we all know, the interests of disc golf aren't necessarily 100% compatible with the interests of public parks and city/county/state planning. Want a new tee pad poured or an alternate basket position installed? Want better-maintained and disc-golf-focused course grounds? These kinds of things may or may not ever be possible on public City/County/State-owned courses. Pay-to-play, by comparison, represents the possibility of placing the interests of disc golf first. Want higher-quality courses than what can be accomplished with City/County/State budgets? That *should* cost something. But the current Alton Baker Park course proposal is quite the opposite of that. Instead of the pay-to-play aspect of the course allowing the interests of disc golf to come first, the interests of disc golf have been on the 'back burner' as it will from the outset, as the available course grounds have been reduced and reduced.

Once again, I fully expect one day to need to start paying more for disc golf. But along with paying more for the sport I also expect to see a greater attention to and focus on the interests of the sport of disc golf. That second part is what I'm not seeing happening here, which is what bothers me.

[purediscgolf]

We could still explore the possibility of an 18 hole layout playable year round and a modified 12 hole layout during event days. This would give us the fields south of Day Island road that are used for parking. There is no reason we can't use these fields for the 330+ days each year that events aren't going on. We understand that the course will need to adapt for the presence of 1,000's of people in the park. It's all about education and adaptation. :) The parks dept wants the course as much as we do. It's just important to keep the current stakeholders happy. We need to bond together now and express our feeling that a "modified course" is just not good enough. We understand that there are concerns over the Pre Trail and we will compromise with the fields. Great things are going to happen. It's just a matter of standing up for what we deserve. Can I smell a petition for 18 Holes coming on? :)

[Jim J]

We could still explore the possibility of an 18 hole layout playable year round and a modified 12 hole layout during event days.

Yes it is mind-boggling that the parks department would exempt those huge parking fields from consideration even when they are not in use. At least the Track Club had to sqawk and squeal and they still ended up with a course that plays near the trail. Cuthbert has never given up a square foot of land that's only used occasionally for parking during warm weather.

In any case, this won't effect the areas available for the Food Toss (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7851). We have permission to use the same footprint as was used during the trial.

[pop]

To purediscgolf and the other people who put so much energy into this new course, I wanted to say thank you, thank you, thank you. While it was not as much a victory as desired, it is certainly a reality and I will be driving down from Portland to play the course. My prediction is that it will grow over time into the 18 holes that were desired.

Let's tee off - Pop

[Matt B.]

You have to love the 4:30 pm Friday announcement. In a nutshell: no 18 hole course, still has to be pay-to-play or completely funded and maintained by a third party.

Will people pay to play a short 12-15 hole course? Can a vendor make a living and maintain a course just selling discs and maybe snacks?

Stay tuned for another 12-18 months and find out.

Thank you very much to everyone who provided feedback to the City of Eugene in the form of survey responses, emails, letters, etc. when we asked for your support. It did make a difference and it is very much appreciated! When the disc golf community sticks together and raises its collective voice we can accomplish a lot.

I was really upset when we got the decision that the original proposed footprint had been modified and the course could not cross the trail. But now that I've had some time to calm down and read the decision a few times I think overall that this is a very positive step, and that we really won here.

This course proposal was in real danger of being scrapped due to the opposition from the Oregon Track Club Board of Directors. Not just modified, but scrapped completely. THE OTC board wanted the course out of West Alton Baker completely and they did everything they could to make that happen, both behind the scenes and with a public media campaign. They not only targeted the proposal with a "Guest Viewpoint" in the paper but someone also sent Steve Prefontaine's half-sister out to all the local tv stations with a bunch of misinformation to accuse disc golfers of "destroying" the trail and disrespecting the "memorial". The OTC board denies being behind Ms. Prefontaine's hysterical antics and I believe that, but she was clearly informed and encouraged by someone parroting their agenda.

The OTC board is very well connected in Eugene, and the OTC and Pre's trail is very well funded by big donors. They were able to get meetings with City officials that the disc golf community could not get. When the City invited five disc golfers to a joint walkthrough of the proposed course, the OTC board brought ten people and proceeded to browbeat us, cut us off as we spoke, and say things that were simply not true about the course proposal. The City officials stood mute and let us take the heat.

If we had not answered their media campaign with one of our own and rallied disc golfers to provide input, the OTC probably would have blown the course out of the water. So from that perspective I think we were successful and we finally exercised a little muscle as a constituency in Eugene.

So this is good news, but we need to be guarded in our optimism. This course has not been approved. The 'footprint' has been modified and approved. We made it over this hurdle but that was just the one placed in front of us by the OTC board. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I don't see this course going in this Fall or anytime soon. Considering the glacial pace of this process we need to stay patient and keep expectations reasonable. The City now has to work on a Request For Proposal to make public. As far as I know, they have not decided on any contract language or even been working on the RFP. We do not know what any vendor may or may not be allowed to do in terms of sales or what a vendor may be required to have in the way of insurance, business license, etc. etc. I'm not sure starting a pay-to-play venture in the Winter would even be a good idea for a vendor.

Until the RFP comes out we are still waiting. A new course layout needs to be designed and approved. And although the language of the decision seems to indicate that all the "stakeholders" are now okay with the footprint, new objections could still arise from the OTC, the Cuthbert people or someone else. As we just saw, the opinions and desires of the other "stakeholders" have a lot of weight in this process and can easily overpower the feedback and desires of hundreds of regular park users. So we do need to stay positive and stay flexible and recognize the power these groups have and find a way to work with them.

And although I agree with the sentiment that it is important to have 18 holes for the long term success of the course, we have to remember that if we want to modify the footprint again, it is going to be another "process" dependent on another decision with more "stakeholder" involvement and potential opposition, etc. etc. etc. We just saw how long it took to get the OTC to state their opposition, gather feedback, campaign for what we wanted, and wait for a decision on it - two friggin' years! I'm not against the idea per se, but just keep that in mind.

In the meantime we still have general approval to run tournaments like the Food Toss, and I hope Andrew will have a Winter Series event at the site as well. When we are there we need to remember where we are in the process and who is watching. We won this battle but we are still a ways from getting the course installed with a lot of unknown terrain ahead of us. Let's stay positive and keep working together!

[General Scales]

This sounds like a community in crisis. Since when did corporate sponsors get to dictate what the public use of a park should be? Things sound a little back alley like in Eugene at the moment.

I would like to commend all you golfers down there, however, for finding the silver lining in a bleak gray day. I am impressed that instead of rolling over, you all took initiative and fought to keep what should be yours.

To the OTC, shame on you. Steve Prefontaine wouldn't of cared who was using the park so long as he could of run through it. It's ridiculous that you use connections to deny people of something that could be just as healthy as running. You have shamed yourself in front of many people and I wouldn't be surprised if people stop being so sympathetic to your needs.

Stuart

[Matt B.]

This sounds like a community in crisis. Since when did corporate sponsors get to dictate what the public use of a park should be? Things sound a little back alley like in Eugene at the moment.

I would like to commend all you golfers down there, however, for finding the silver lining in a bleak gray day. I am impressed that instead of rolling over, you all took initiative and fought to keep what should be yours.

To the OTC, shame on you. Steve Prefontaine wouldn't of cared who was using the park so long as he could of run through it. It's ridiculous that you use connections to deny people of something that could be just as healthy as running. You have shamed yourself in front of many people and I wouldn't be surprised if people stop being so sympathetic to your needs.

Stuart


Just to clarify my statements above, I am not saying that corporate sponsors had anything to do with this situation, they did not in any way. My point is that the OTC is a very well-respected, well-established, and well-funded group in Eugene and disc golfers are by and large, not, and we could have just gotten steamrolled. The OTC board is made up in part, as most boards are, of influential people. And rightly so. You want those people advocating for your organization, and aside from this disc golf debacle I think the OTC does good things for the community.

The OTC puts a lot of money into the community and into Pre's trail and they have the right to defend their turf as they see fit. We don't have to agree with their opinions or arguments, but they are already well established in that park and we are not, so we need to work with them. Although they wanted the course to go away, they did end up compromising or at least accepting this compromise for now.

I realize I've been one of the main bashers but I really hope we move into a new phase in this campaign to bring more disc golf to Eugene. We have a lot of collective energy and I'd love for it to be used in a positive direction and not get dragged into another "argument" situation. If we had our own park space to work in that would be the case and we could just roll up our sleeves and get to work like Stumptown and other clubs have been doing. This is what we've got for now in Eugene, and negotiating the political landscape is something we'll have to get better at, me included.

Now if we could just get Phil Knight to buy 100 acres in Eugene to establish a home course for the U of O disc golf team and the rest of the community!

[Ol' Bob]

...Pre's trail is very well funded by some heavy hitters (think swoosh).

Should disc golfers think twice before having a swoosh on anything they have? Isn't there a place for some leverage in the other direction implicit here? I could imagine a national campaign that might get a heavy hitter swinging another direction.

[Jim J]

Should disc golfers think twice before having a swoosh on anything they have? Isn't there a place for some leverage in the other direction implicit here? I could imagine a national campaign that might get a heavy hitter swinging another direction.

There are lots of valid reasons to boycott Nike (and most of the other Fortune 1000 for that matter), but this isn't one of them.

[bryan_luoma]

The Parks and Open Space Planning Manager, Neil Bjorklund appears to be soliciting feedback WRT some potential changes in the ABP DGC plan.

1) leave the disc golf course area as it was, with very restricted hours on Cuthbert event days, and a maximum of 15-16 holes, or

2) to make these changes to allow expanded hours of play on Cuthbert event days and to expand the number of holes to 18 on most days.

Does anyone who is intimately familiar with these changes want to comment on this so we can provide the best feedback.

Expanded hours of play and expanded number of holes seems like a no brainer? Does this adversely affect the quality of the original layout?

[Jim J]

The Parks and Open Space Planning Manager, Neil Bjorklund appears to be soliciting feedback WRT some potential changes in the ABP DGC plan.

1) leave the disc golf course area as it was, with very restricted hours on Cuthbert event days, and a maximum of 15-16 holes, or

2) to make these changes to allow expanded hours of play on Cuthbert event days and to expand the number of holes to 18 on most days.

Does anyone who is intimately familiar with these changes want to comment on this so we can provide the best feedback.

Expanded hours of play and expanded number of holes seems like a no brainer? Does this adversely affect the quality of the original layout?

Opinions vary. The EDGC facebook page has some discussion and a map of the changes has been posted. I think there's two schools of thought.

One says let's just agree to this and get the course in the ground and go from there.

The other response is to complain a bit because essentially they are cutting out a pretty nice section of trees (permanently) to accomodate eight or nine days of parking for the Cuthbert. (Yes, that's right. When there's no event parking, we still can't use the open meadow or a very nice section of trees.)

I sort of see the value in just ignoring this latest affront and moving on, but I still think that the city needs to explain why they are valuing part-time cars over full-time park users. It goes directly against a number of the city's stated principles regarding transportation and planning.

OTOH, the course will up and running this weekend!!!

Friday afternoon, Saturday and Sunday. It's a pay-to-play fundraiser for the club. We can forget about the politics and have some fun.

[bryan_luoma]

Thanks for the insight Jim! I'll check out the FB page too. I think you raise a good point WRT the cities reasoning.