ORS donates $80,000 to Oregon disc golf

[dEuCeDrOpPeR]

News is here! (http://www.orsdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=18) :seeya:

[Sam]

I always knew they were making money! I mean... how else could they have donated so much if they hadn't been making money?!

It's fun being crazy. :jumpspin:

[LJ Jubner]

News is here! (http://www.orsdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=18) :seeya:


Not sure how you got the $80K. I read the team spent about 10k per year for the series. Maybe better headline Ore Series Team donates 80k

It seems more like an explanation for why they decided not to continue the Ore series (Disclaimer) I realize Mags is rallying the troops so the series is not dead just under "new management" Hopefully with financial transparency as a cornerstone.

[Sam]

At the risk of threaddrift...

Reasons why JubJub thinks ORS was not financially transparent:
1. Jerry Miller says so and JubJub is part of Jerry's flock. I don't think that this is a ba-a-a-a-a-a-a-d thing, necessarily. Some people cannot be more than they are born to be.

Valid reasons for thinking this:
................................................tu mbleweeds......................................... .......

[D-Walk]

At the risk of threaddrift...

Yanking the thread back on track, :laughing: I just wanted to thank the Bellingers for all that they have contributed to disc golf in OR. I, unfortunately, never got to play in an ORS event and was looking forward to playing in them this year but they have laid the ground work for continued greatness in our disc golf community.

:bowing: Thank you you two. :bowing:

[Adam Schneider]

The title of this thread makes it sound like they're taking all the profits they've earned over the years and are now giving that cash back to the disc golf community. But isn't this "headline" really just an odd way of saying, "The Bellingers have spent $80K of their own money to run ORS for the last 8 years"?

[Sam]

Or... all of the profit that has been speculated that they made over the years actually went back into the sport rather than into the yacht and the houses in the Caribbean and Europe... Ooops. I said too much. :whistler:

[Matt B.]

Or... all of the profit that has been speculated that they made over the years actually went back into the sport rather than into the yacht and the houses in the Caribbean and Europe... Ooops. I said too much. :whistler:

Was the ORS a non-profit organization? Is there some other reason they would need or want to be financially transparent?

If I really like a store and its goods do I get some sort of right to know it's financial situation? Why would anyone think that?

That's just me, thinking outside of the box.

Back to the original topic, I'd like to thank the ORS team for all the good times, the camaraderie, the fun, and the incredible amount of time and effort they have given to grow the sport and put on the BEST series of tournaments in the NW. I was always in awe of the dedication it took to do that every month for seven months a year, and I was always thankful for all their work.
:trophy:

[LJ Jubner]

Yes, Cal the Ore series is non profit or least they wanted it to appear to be. If the series was a business then that would be a little different. Why no tax forms? Series paid out in cash or prizes that where not documented. Non profit or not these are the rules. If they were so benevolent then they should be saints so publish the books so you can be canonized

Once Again, Sam when you make the same statement it's fact but when I make it it's just absurd

If the thread had said
Bellingers are retiring
or
Ore series has new proprietors
or just
Thanks for all you have done would have been great

but Ore series donates 80k to DG needs some clarification.

[TreeLove]

Cut dEuCeDrOpPeR some slack, it was his/her first post ever.

[Matt B.]

Cut dEuCeDrOpPeR some slack, it was his/her first post ever.

Who is Deucedropper, anyway? Interesting subject matter for the first post since registering months ago. Deuce - you still there? I like the Homer Simpson pic on your profile.

I was not aware that the ORS was a non-profit organization, hence the questions. How do you get information like that? Do you have to work for the IRS? Because it sounds to me like someone is alleging that crimes have been committed.

Hey - as long as there is no name-calling going on!

[LJ Jubner]

Maybe "Ore series gets T.A.R.P. money" would be the most accurate title



I was not aware that the ORS was a non-profit organization, hence the questions. How do you get information like that? Do you have to work for the IRS? Because it sounds to me like someone is alleging that crimes have been committed.

Hey - as long as there is no name-calling going on!

Two years ago the ORE series went (or least said they were) non profit. .."Gonna hook up with special Olympics and get tons of sponsors".... Well, non profit is not all it cracked up to be. The sponsorships thing is still hard and you have to keep and show books (financial transparency).

If crimes have been committed they would be swept under the carpet just like last time.

[Jim J]

Maybe "Ore series gets T.A.R.P. money" would be the most accurate title

Two years ago the ORE series went (or least said they were) non profit. .."Gonna hook up with special Olympics and get tons of sponsors".... Well, non profit is not all it cracked up to be. The sponsorships thing is still hard and you have to keep and show books (financial transparency).

If crimes have been committed they would be swept under the carpet just like last time.

Well here's my first post ever in this forum:

Anyone who thinks the ORS was a rip-off but still played in the events lacks either judgment or self-control or both.

Whether the ORS made money or lost money has no impact on my belief that they provided more bang for my entertainment dollar than any organization I have given my dollars to.

I hope they made a lot of money. They earned every last dime (which is probably the sum total of everything they earned).

[snap7times]

I've played tournaments in many different states, the ORS is just a tad notch ahead of everyone else in total package expirience, I thought they should have gotten at least $5 per entry fee towards their work before the 2008 season started.

[LJ Jubner]

$5 a head
Ave attendance at Ore series events

Specuation 160 x $5 =$800 per event x 9= $ 7200
Actual 160 x $3 = $480 x 9= $4300

God! who would not like that kinda of job espically when the locals do most of the work anyway! The series just shows up with cards and payout. Thats a hell of a deal if you ask me

[LJ Jubner]

A second thought Average entry fee for Ore series was say

$40 - $3 (TD fee per head). -$4 (to PDGA fee's) - $2 (ace pot that carries over), - $15 PP (includes crap trophies). So whats left for "over valued payout" $40 - $24 is a whopping $16 per player ( on average)

My question is Was the $10k/year donation before or after the $480/event payments

[Scott]

$5 a head
Ave attendance at Ore series events

Specuation 160 x $5 =$800 per event x 9= $ 7200
Actual 160 x $3 = $480 x 9= $4300

God! who would not like that kinda of job espically when the locals do most of the work anyway! The series just shows up with cards and payout. Thats a hell of a deal if you ask me

Have you ever attended an Oregon Series event? I think anyone who has would understand that a HELL of a lot of effort goes into them. Sponsorships, course cleanup (might be done by locals, but someone is organizing those work parties), fundraising tournaments, setting up tourney central, staffing tourney central.... I could go on and on and on.... They do a lot more than show up and collect their money.

[snap7times]

Website operation, Fliers, registration, communicating, must spend one full weekend for 7 months straight plus 2-4 fundraiser tournaments. Traveling, pulling the trailer and much more... Even at $7200 split several ways for 7 tournaments x 3 days = 21 days minimum at tournament central running tournaments. Who will operate the trailer/goods and the money now... care to donate to ODDGA?:biggrin2:

[Bullseye]

Jub,

As someone who has watched, participated and very much appreciated the immense efforts of the ORS series staff, I am disgusted by your never ending criticisms. Year after year, the ORS series staff put in hours of work to bring us all the most professionally run tournaments I have ever participated in. To have you sit here and call to question their motivation is, in my opinion, a joke. If you think the ORS series staff was getting rich off these tournaments I think you as sorely mistaken.

Yes, the subject line of this thread could have been a bit clearer, but rather than clarify the subject line, once again, you took the opportunity to bad mouth some of the most dedicated advocates of disc golf in our area. I have nothing but good things to say about the ORS staff and Bellingers in particular.

Jeff H








A second thought Average entry fee for Ore series was say

$40 - $3 (TD fee per head). -$4 (to PDGA fee's) - $2 (ace pot that carries over), - $15 PP (includes crap trophies). So whats left for "over valued payout" $40 - $24 is a whopping $16 per player ( on average)

My question is Was the $10k/year donation before or after the $480/event payments

[LJ Jubner]

Jub,

As someone who has watched, participated and very much appreciated the immense efforts of the ORS series staff, I am disgusted by your never ending criticisms. Year after year, the ORS series staff put in hours of work to bring us all the most professionally run tournaments I have ever participated in. To have you sit here and call to question their motivation is, in my opinion, a joke. If you think the ORS series staff was getting rich off these tournaments I think you as sorely mistaken.

Yes, the subject line of this thread could have been a bit clearer, but rather than clarify the subject line, once again, you took the opportunity to bad mouth some of the most dedicated advocates of disc golf in our area. I have nothing but good things to say about the ORS staff and Bellingers in particular.

Jeff H

Jeff, I actually did suggest several alternate titles for this thread. If it had been (like I suggested) "Thanks for all you have done..." then I would not have had any qualms about the thread. But to offer up such a claim without records seems like glad handing.

Efforts made

Most of the posts about how much Time and Effort goes into running an event were done by "the locals". There sweat and effort make the event.

You do offer some interesting questions though.

If the series coordinator's get some sort of compensation is the actual TD also considered as Series staff for that weekend?

Does sponsorship money come from series sponsors go to club? and conversely does local sponsorship money go back to series?

In other words
Does series keep all it's sponsor money or share it with events?
and Does series get a cut of the Local sponsorship?

Yet Another Question
What does the club/course receive form the series as compensation for hosting the event?

[Matt B.]

Jub,

As someone who has watched, participated and very much appreciated the immense efforts of the ORS series staff, I am disgusted by your never ending criticisms. Year after year, the ORS series staff put in hours of work to bring us all the most professionally run tournaments I have ever participated in. To have you sit here and call to question their motivation is, in my opinion, a joke. If you think the ORS series staff was getting rich off these tournaments I think you as sorely mistaken.

Yes, the subject line of this thread could have been a bit clearer, but rather than clarify the subject line, once again, you took the opportunity to bad mouth some of the most dedicated advocates of disc golf in our area. I have nothing but good things to say about the ORS staff and Bellingers in particular.

Jeff H

:cheers:

Nice to see some others chime in here so I don't have to get accused of "attacking" a chronic negative naysayer and conspiracy theorist disc golf cop. As far as the subject line, I'll ask it again : deucedropper, are you out there? One post since you registered 6 months ago and this is it? You sure set someone up well to attack people who had nothing to do with the post - and they are taking full advantage of it.

Attacking the subject line and using it as an excuse to spew utter crap is really lame. I wish the ORS staff had made a ton of money - they freakin' earned it! Worth every goddamn penny and then some! You think gas is free? Series t-shirts, trophies, scoring, website. Sweet hoodies, jackets for people who played all events.

Some people are jealous and negative and carrying loooong held grudges. You can say I'm a name-caller all you want, but the kind of unfounded accusations and criticism aimed at the ORS that gets spewed is astounding!

The ORS was the best thing to happen to sanctioned tournament disc golf in the PNW, and I am sorely sad to see it go! THANK YOU Cris and Teresa, Todd, Tom, Flash, Greg and EVERYONE on the local level who ran events, sponsored events, helped out and played. We can only pull together and hope we can keep things moving at the high level we have become accustomed to. One thing is for sure - some people will always run their mouths about other peoples events.

[Adam Schneider]

I'd change the title of the thread if I fully understood exactly what it's supposed to mean.

By the way, the mods can see the identity of "DeuceDropper"; it's someone active in the Oregon disc golf scene, not just some random schmoe.

[JMan]

Everyone can say what they will, what I will say is that I played in a few ORS events and they were all run professionally. All the other talk, well talk is cheap folks, you think it was done wrong, or could be done better ... show me

[Sam]

And actually... DeuceDropper has been a TD of Oregon Series events... in Bend. That should probably give it away sufficiently.

It's funny. I can barely see Jerry Miller's lips moving when JubJub posts. :rolleyes2:

At the risk of inspiring him to respond again, Jub... in your mathematics... what does the 9 represent? Number of events? I have to tell you... your argument would be stronger if you got your facts right. Not strong, mind you... but stronger, anyway.

[Matt B.]

And actually... DeuceDropper has been a TD of Oregon Series events... in Bend. That should probably give it away sufficiently.

It's funny. I can barely see Jerry Miller's lips moving when JubJub posts. :rolleyes2:

At the risk of inspiring him to respond again, Jub... in your mathematics... what does the 9 represent? Number of events? I have to tell you... your argument would be stronger if you got your facts right. Not strong, mind you... but stronger, anyway.

"And actually... DeuceDropper has been a TD of Oregon Series events... in Bend. That should probably give it away sufficiently."

Ok. See, now I'm seeing conspiracies too! Ahh, it's catching!

[Bullseye]

Jeff, I actually did suggest several alternate titles for this thread. If it had been (like I suggested) "Thanks for all you have done..." then I would not have had any qualms about the thread. But to offer up such a claim without records seems like glad handing.

Efforts made

Most of the posts about how much Time and Effort goes into running an event were done by "the locals". There sweat and effort make the event.

You do offer some interesting questions though.

If the series coordinator's get some sort of compensation is the actual TD also considered as Series staff for that weekend?

Does sponsorship money come from series sponsors go to club? and conversely does local sponsorship money go back to series?

In other words
Does series keep all it's sponsor money or share it with events?
and Does series get a cut of the Local sponsorship?

Yet Another Question
What does the club/course receive form the series as compensation for hosting the event?


It is my understanding that:

The ORS Series was compensated for their direct expenses. (ie: travel).

The event TDs do thier own fund raising and that money stays within that specific event.

The only money the series collected from the events was a couple of bucks per entry for the series final points awards.

Yes, the local TDs put in a ton of work and it is their hard work that make each and every event a good one. However, it was the ORS series umbrella of organization that transformed those already good events into truly great ones.

[Sam]

The ORS Series was compensated for their direct expenses. (ie: travel).

Only this past year was this the case. The previous years, they paid for these expenses out of pocket.

[Adam Schneider]

I don't understand what the brouhaha is. What if they HAD made a lot of money?

Seems to me they were providing a well-liked service at a fair price (I assume it was a fair price, since the events sold out, yes?). They can do anything they want with the money, as long as they haven't made promises they didn't keep.

If you pay a climbing gym for a rock-climbing session, do you demand to see their books afterwards so you can see where the money went?

[Magilla]

And actually... DeuceDropper has been a TD of Oregon Series events... in Bend. That should probably give it away sufficiently.

It's funny. I can barely see Jerry Miller's lips moving when JubJub posts. :rolleyes2:

At the risk of inspiring him to respond again, Jub... in your mathematics... what does the 9 represent? Number of events? I have to tell you... your argument would be stronger if you got your facts right. Not strong, mind you... but stronger, anyway.

Well, I can say for one thing...It aint me:whistler:

BUT, I suppose I can "chime in" on my thoughts as to why this thread was started......

Im pretty sure that "Duecedropper" is taking issue to the statement that the ORS staff has put approx $10,000 per yr out of its own pocket to run the Series, with out taking a dime, except for the past 2 yrs.

It makes it sound like they were OUT $10,000 a year......
to that "dueceDropper" & I (and others) call "BULLSHIT".

They might have well just told ALL Oregon DiscGolfers that we were a bunch of Morons that cant think or do any kind of Math.
(except JubJub he STILL cant do Math) :nono::nono::nono:

To ME this really sucks to feel this way...I personally like EVERYONE that has been involved with running the Oregon Series. Without them Oregon Disc Golf would not be where it is right now. I can fully except that they are "tired" and wish to do other things..BURN OUT happens. But ONE paragraph in the Series statement can be done without........

Ive tried to NOT get into the debates online....BUT Rumors fly...

:cheers:

[Sam]

Thinking about it, I don't think that I read it as "we made no money and even put $10,000 of our own money back in." I read it as, "we made some money and, of that money, we put $10,000 per year back in."

I am having a hard time comprehending why we should want our TDs and series coordinators to not make any money. Do we not want these people who are organizers to stick around to organize stuff for us to do? Seems pretty counter-intuitive to me.

[Bullseye]

Only this past year was this the case. The previous years, they paid for these expenses out of pocket.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if they started that last year or the year before, so I erred on the conservative side.

[Matt B.]

I don't understand what the brouhaha is. What if they HAD made a lot of money?

Seems to me they were providing a well-liked service at a fair price (I assume it was a fair price, since the events sold out, yes?). They can do anything they want with the money, as long as they haven't made promises they didn't keep.

If you pay a climbing gym for a rock-climbing session, do you demand to see their books afterwards so you can see where the money went?

EXACTAMUNDO!!!! :yay:

I know I and presumably many of the other ORS participants would have paid MORE to kep the series running. The value for my money was outstanding.

[Matt B.]

Well, I can say for one thing...It aint me:whistler:

BUT, I suppose I can "chime in" on my thoughts as to why this thread was started......

Im pretty sure that "Duecedropper" is taking issue to the statement that the ORS staff has put approx $10,000 per yr out of its own pocket to run the Series, with out taking a dime, except for the past 2 yrs.

It makes it sound like they were OUT $10,000 a year......
to that "dueceDropper" & I (and others) call "BULLSHIT".

They might have well just told ALL Oregon DiscGolfers that we were a bunch of Morons that cant think or do any kind of Math.
(except JubJub he STILL cant do Math) :nono::nono::nono:

To ME this really sucks to feel this way...I personally like EVERYONE that has been involved with running the Oregon Series. Without them Oregon Disc Golf would not be where it is right now. I can fully except that they are "tired" and wish to do other things..BURN OUT happens. But ONE paragraph in the Series statement can be done without........

Ive tried to NOT get into the debates online....BUT Rumors fly...

:cheers:

Well then maybe deucedropper should have just said what he was thinking....

[Wes Hansen]

I can't believe people still argue with JubJub. At every turn he's demonstrated a willful disregard for facts and generally tried to create a negative impact on every thing he touches.

The Oregon Series events were among the best this country has to offer. Every member of the ORS crew, local TDs... deserves the gratitude of every player that came to an event.

I HOPE that the Bellingers and anyone else involved made some money. They deserve whatever profits they were able to earn. I wish it were more. At least enough to have kept them going.

This loss will set back DG in Oregon, at least for a year.

To those that entered ORS events, like JubJub, and then try to create animosity through badmouthing them... you are hypocrites of the worst order. Go away.

Wouldn't this entire forum be a better place if the powers that be simply removed Jub Jub from this site?

[all2common]

Just because you don't like him doesn't mean that he should be kicked off.

[Sam]

If JubJub were removed without provocation, we would be ODSA all over again. Hell, we would be JubJub at ODSA all over again. I think not.

[Matt B.]

Just because you don't like him doesn't mean that he should be kicked off.

Yeah, that just guaranteed another six months of "I'm being censored" and conspiracy whining. Unless someone violates the rules I don't see any reason for banning. A person who has crapped themselves in public is certainly given the right to repeatedly proclaim the presence of the self-inflicted dooky without being exiled. Theoretically speaking of course.

[Wes Hansen]

Hey Magilla,
Why read things the way Jub Jub does?
I read that statement and, having a brain, understood what they were saying.
Sort of like your "bullshit" statement. Or implying that the ORS was calling DGers morons.
That was just you trying to stir crap right?
Aren't you the PDGA rep for OR? (Tell me no, so I don't have to vote against you next time.)
That's not the kind of representation we need right now.

[Wes Hansen]

OK- fine. He shouldn't be banned. i just like to think of him that way.
Now, back to how evil the Bellingers are.

[Sean Phillips]

It's funny. I can barely see Jerry Miller's lips moving when JubJub posts. :rolleyes2:

Dude?!? :rolleyes2: you deserve to be punched in the mouth. :angel:


not a threat, just a thought.

[Sam]

I see. So your hero can badmouth others but others badmouthing him and they deserve a punch in the mouth. Perfect Jerry Miller logic. :rolleyes2:

[Wes Hansen]

Sean,
You are not the first person to have that thought!
Frankly, I think Sam takes pride, much as I do, that his words have that power.
Particularly when the words have enough truth in them (I'm NOT talking about this instance, perhaps) that it tends to piss off people.
I also don't envy your position as a friend of someone who gets so much crap here.
(I HOPE you know I'm talking about JM. I've always thought you were too sane to be JJs friend. Please don't tell me I'm wrong.)

Sam,
We wouldn't be where we are today if we hadn't felt like punching each other in the mouth at least once! I think maybe you and Sean will be friends one day.


ALL,
So- are all sane people here agreed on the gist of the thread?
The ORS is no more.
People can read the ORS statement in differing ways.
Every player who played in an ORS event is richer for it and, by it's presence, ORS has contributed to the overall advancement of DG in Oregon.
That some people have so little concept of business they misguidedly believe products and services should be free. Or at least free to them.
That idiots can be found more easily than intelligent people.

What else have we learned?

[Magilla]

Hey Magilla,
Why read things the way Jub Jub does?
I read that statement and, having a brain, understood what they were saying.
Sort of like your "bullshit" statement. Or implying that the ORS was calling DGers morons.
That was just you trying to stir crap right?
Aren't you the PDGA rep for OR? (Tell me no, so I don't have to vote against you next time.)
That's not the kind of representation we need right now.

:chinscratch:

"....spending ~$10k yearly to run the Series (out of our own pockets), and not pulling a dime out of the Series for personal payment other than to cover minimal travel expenses the last year or so,...."


Ok so here is the EXACT quote from the ORS site....

What does of "out of our own pockets" & "Not pulling a dime out of the Series.." say to you??
Im am NOT saying NOR have I ever said that they are not entitled to make $ off of what they do/did. There is nothing wrong with it.

Maybe, It took $10000 of our own money to purchase all the Merch we sell at each event & cover costs to attend...would eliminate the 10+ phone calls Ive recieved since they posted that statement.

I had no intention of taking this any further than moving on, dealing with it the best we can AND keep the Series running.

People here asked for further clairification....I just gave it.

:cheers:

[Wes Hansen]

Perhaps neither you nor I can read the mind of the writers and you've simply misunderstood their statement?
Perhaps their statement referred to the cost of supplies, infrastructure, gas, lodging, food, loss of salary due to time off... $10k seems like a reasonable statement to me.

Did they not provide you with enough information? Why in the world should they?

Those 10+ calls are a drop in the bucket compared to the HUNDREDS of DGers that have been happy with the ORS.

Since Magilla has said he's more about the future than arguing about the past...
PLEASE let us all know what efforts are being made to see the events that were the Oregon Series remain in some way consistent in excellence?
Or, be honest, will this year be a serious clusterfuck and it will be all TDs for themselves?

Isn't there a local organization that could easily absorb the work of running a series?

[snap7times]

Through the ORS, we have all learned what it is like to be part of a top quality tournament. Many of us have taken that expirience and knowledge and applied it to our own tournaments like the ODDGA. Thanks to the ORS, the ODDGA has improved it's tournament quality threefold. No BS neccessary, the ORS walked the talk, period.
Now let's take all the good we can out of this and apply it to our 2009 "ORS" tournaments. Leave the negative skeptism BS out of this. If I wanted to listen to BS, i would watch the news... Which I never do because they can never talk about anything positive longer than it takes me to eat an M&M. I'll be there for BSF, don't make me smack you on the head with my ROC. :cop:

[Magilla]

Perhaps neither you nor I can read the mind of the writers and you've simply misunderstood their statement?
Perhaps their statement referred to the cost of supplies, infrastructure, gas, lodging, food, loss of salary due to time off... $10k seems like a reasonable statement to me.

Did they not provide you with enough information? Why in the world should they?

Those 10+ calls are a drop in the bucket compared to the HUNDREDS of DGers that have been happy with the ORS.

Since Magilla has said he's more about the future than arguing about the past...
PLEASE let us all know what efforts are being made to see the events that were the Oregon Series remain in some way consistent in excellence?
Or, be honest, will this year be a serious clusterfuck and it will be all TDs for themselves?

Isn't there a local organization that could easily absorb the work of running a series?

Wes I base my thoughts on the fact that Ive run 100's of tournaments (50+PDGA) and I know EXACTLY what the costs are......... :headbang:

As far as the Series........

The actual RUNNING of the events isnt the issue...It's being able to put on a similar "Show"
Without the assets of the "Series" ie Tents, Tables, Sound System, Scoreboards, Computers,etc. it WILL be different.
The TD's themselves are more than capable of running the events, Heck the GNW Open will be just about the same seeing as they are traveling there to Merch for Tom AND honor old scrip so they can close the books.

[Wes Hansen]

So, we've agreed to disagree?
I feel like I'm sitting in front of Clinton, trying to define "costs" for him/you.
"and I know EXACTLY what the costs are........."
It's all semantics.
"Without the assets of the "Series" ie Tents, Tables, Sound System, Scoreboards, Computers,etc. it WILL be different."
Those items are free! By your logic they must be.
Your posts show an obvious predisposition to malign the ORS.
Why is that?
Or simply state your real issue here. After just a couple posts from you I feel I can probably guess your real issue, but I won't take your statements out of context and stupidly put words in your mouth.


Snap,
I'll take that smack in the head! You should bring some extras for my forum friends! See you at BSF. I hope.

[Magilla]

So, we've agreed to disagree?
I feel like I'm sitting in front of Clinton, trying to define "costs" for him/you.
"and I know EXACTLY what the costs are........."
It's all semantics.
"Without the assets of the "Series" ie Tents, Tables, Sound System, Scoreboards, Computers,etc. it WILL be different."
Those items are free! By your logic they must be.
Your posts show an obvious predisposition to malign the ORS.
Why is that?
Or simply state your real issue here. After just a couple posts from you I feel I can probably guess your real issue, but I won't take your statements out of context and stupidly put words in your mouth.


Snap,
I'll take that smack in the head! You should bring some extras for my forum friends! See you at BSF. I hope.

Where or HOW have I attempted to "Malign" the ORS, Wes?

I have only attempted to work with them to grow this sport in ways that I have proven will work. I have given them praise about ALL they have done for Oregon Disc Golf and because I question something, I am the bad guy?
Is this China? Are you a Commie? Better watch out..McCarthy could still be watching...

Anybody have any ideas for the NEW name of our Series?

:cheers:

[snap7times]

I went back to read the message that was left to us by the ORS, and i find it almost perfect and find nothing to be digested as far as some have taken it... Just remember, anyone I smack with my ROC cannot retaliate because i'm handicapped and i SIGNED "FOUR", so I did my part before the ROC hits ya...:jumpspin:

Oh yeah, here's a great idea for a name, "Oregon Series".. no point in changing something good....

[Sam]

Oregon Tour

Really. I take it to mean "We made X (and we are not telling you how big the X is because why should we?) and from that X, we spent about $10,000 per year on the costs of running the series." I really fail to see the problem with this.

"Not pulling a dime out of the series." I take this to mean that of the purse, they took none. I know the two events I was directly involved with, they took money for laminating but that is a valid expense that shouldn't be absorbed by them. And that was it. The rest went to payouts and expenses. Period.

I understand that this will leave people questioning how big X is. I encourage the Bellingers to maintain their position of "not telling you because it is none of your business" and allow the speculators to speculate. They will no matter what answers are provided to them.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Anybody have any ideas for the NEW name of our Series?



OSS=Oregon Summer Series


Bob

[Wes Hansen]

Magilla- OK.

I vote for

Oregon Series

unless the people that used the name previously object.

[Scott]

It's the Oregon Series.

[Sam]

Why, Scott?

[Matt B.]

Oregon Tour

Really. I take it to mean "We made X (and we are not telling you how big the X is because why should we?) and from that X, we spent about $10,000 per year on the costs of running the series." I really fail to see the problem with this.

"Not pulling a dime out of the series." I take this to mean that of the purse, they took none. I know the two events I was directly involved with, they took money for laminating but that is a valid expense that shouldn't be absorbed by them. And that was it. The rest went to payouts and expenses. Period.

I understand that this will leave people questioning how big X is. I encourage the Bellingers to maintain their position of "not telling you because it is none of your business" and allow the speculators to speculate. They will no matter what answers are provided to them.

I read the statement the same way. You know what is BULLSHIT!? Someone with an axe to grind posting that the ORS said they made a "donation". It seems that there are so many old grudges in our scene, finger pointing, rumors, etc. And SO many of us know nothing about some five-ten year old problem and frankly don't give a shit. We go to tournaments and we decide if we had a good time, if the TD was nice or a jerk, and if it was worth it enough for us to come back.

Too bad we've got some people stuck in the past and looking to just cause problems.

And I vote for "Oregon Tour" as I'd say the name "Oregon Series" is clearly someone else's creation.

[all2common]

Why, Scott?

Because it's a series of tournaments...in Oregon.

(I didn't mean to answer for Scott.)

[Sam]

Yes.. but as Caloch has already pointed out, the Oregon Series is someone else's creation. What will follow might be a series of tournaments in Oregon but it will not be the Oregon Series. Not in my mind, anyway.

[snap7times]

I like the word series... i do see the point of leaving "oregon series" alone and leaving that to be respected for what it was. how about "The Beaver State Series", since the BSF is the signature event of the series?

[LJ Jubner]

As far as the Series........

The actual RUNNING of the events isn't the issue...It's being able to put on a similar "Show"
Without the assets of the "Series" IE Tents, Tables, Sound System, Scoreboards, Computers,etc. .
.

I have have a serious problems with this statement. In the beginning It was my understanding that all the Ore series stuff, trailer, Tents scoreboards were originally purchased with seed money from Full Sail. it was my impression that FS gave the money to support DG in Ore not the Bellingers personal ownership. So WTF is going on. Maybe Mags is right thinking Ore DG are too stoned/drunk to notice or even care. If they do retain possession of these goods that's one hell of a parting gift or they found a way to recoop 20k of their supposed 80k.


The TD's themselves are more than capable of running the events, Heck the GNW Open will be just about the same seeing as they are traveling there to Merch for Tom AND honor old scrip so they can close the books.

So there are books, then Lets see them!!!

If the books show that the series coord. did donate/lose (whatever you want to call it) 80k and It can be verified I will quit posting on this site. Is that good enough for you wus?

[Sam]

Jub, here's a hard and fast rule for you.

If it is your understanding, start over because you are probably wrong.

Good luck. :cheers:

[all2common]

I like the word series...

...and we can have poetry battles to settle any ties.

[snap7times]

Move on! The stuff will either find its way into the new series or be replaced by the hundreds of disc golfers that have some of this stuff already. MOVING ON to the next topic, the new name of the series....

[snap7times]

...and we can have poetry battles to settle any ties.

Never have a poetry battle with a Deaf person, they always win because they can do it in two different languages at once, even when y'all dont understand it, it still looks so beautiful, y'all just standing there with eyes glazed and jaws dropped.. :biggrin2::wink2::nahnah::whistler::dancing:

Anyways *drinking coffee*, back to the topic on hand *rereading what i just typed, damn that's cocky, who wrote that... ohh.. ooops* :jumpspin::angel:

[Scott]

Because it's a series of tournaments...in Oregon.

(I didn't mean to answer for Scott.)

Absolutley correct. That is exactly what I was thinking.

I am hopeful that those who take the reigns from the Bellingers (and all others involved) will eventually create a better product - one that will continue to live up to the ORS name.

When a business changes ownership it doesn't necessarily change names. How many "Joes Auto Shop" aren't really owned by Joe - it was the name of the original owner? Ruth's Chris Steakhouse comes to mind as well...

This just came to mind.... The Stumptown Oregon Series..... Or the "(Your Name Here) Oregon Series".

[snap7times]

stumptown is a start, but if i'm correct, that is already a club in northwestern Oregon and that would not be a neutral name... but good brain stroming nevertheless.

[Scott]

stumptown is a start, but if i'm correct, that is already a club in northwestern Oregon and that would not be a neutral name... but good brain stroming nevertheless.

True, but it's likely that whatever entity runs with the series will be a club (that's a lot of work for one or two people) and that club will have geographic ties.

In my mind, "The Stumptown Series" and "The Stumptown Oregon Series" say two different things. The first one implies a series around Portland, and the second one implies a series around Oregon sponsored by Stumptown. Kind of like the "Los Angeles Dodgers of Anehiem. :laughing:

[SMOKIN JOE]

I vote to keep it the same,, OREGON SERIES,, lots of things change ownership without changing the name ,,, to me the name represents something,,, it's simple , to the point,, and people around the world have heard of the Oregon Series,,,, why start a new tradition,, we have a good one going now,,, maybe put a sign in the window saying "under new management",,, I think sponsers would also like to keep asociated with the name that has grown to be known,,, we should try to change as little as possible,,,, now about the other sh... being said,,, if they are non-profit (which can easily be found with the actual name of the business) then by law, apon reselution(wish i could spell) they would have had to put on the application form what was to be done with the assets,, you just can't keep them,, if they were not a non-profit business then whatever was donated to the business is thiers,,, the point of them making money or not is irrelivent,,, businesses are supposed to make money,, all this means is someone with the means needs to step up for the sport of disc golf:cool2:

[discojango]

News is here! (http://www.orsdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=18) :seeya:
I really do value all the work done to run an event: the locals who build and maintain the courses, and provide a TD, the sponsors, the poor individual who GOT the sponsors(like having your teeth pulled) the contributions from the behinds the scenes people, like score cards and putting up temporary courses..etc.etc and of course the PLAYERS who spend the money they earn to gamble on there ability to toss bright plastic with unerring accuracy for two full days!!!
Yet I'm confused. I never knew it took SO much time and money to waltz into a location with a trailer that was supposed to be bought from Full Sail seed money and pimp the locals with scripted disc sales???!!! $1428.57 per tournament really contributes to the overall excellence of said event. That really frees up some serious overhead for awards, lunches, and an over 100% payout. It is these kinda sacrifices that make the world a better place. Thats like 10.00 per player in a 144 player field and that is some serious contribution!! Especially in a field of 72!! 20.00 bucks a player. Hell yes!!!! I really am sorry I missed all that!!! And I have alot of respect for those who sacrificed so much for so long, just so we can have fun!!!

[SMOKIN JOE]

just read i great idea posted why i was posting ''''''''(sponser of the series) '''''' oregon series, has any of the powers to be tried to sell the series sponshership title,,, Inova Oregon Series,, something more local,,,Fred Meyer Oregon Series,,, Full Sail Oregon Series,,:cool2:

[Sam]

Yet I'm confused. I never knew it took SO much time and money to waltz into a location with a trailer that was supposed to be bought from Full Sail seed money and pimp the locals with scripted disc sales???!!!

Waltz into a location.

Spoken like someone who has never had anything to do with running a tournament ever. It's more like a cha-cha, anyway. :rolleyes2:

[JMan]

:yawn:
Shut up and throw ... all of ya

[LJ Jubner]

Come on sam it's "river dance"

[Sam]

This whole thread has gotten ridiculous. The fact that the single greatest contributors to disc golf tournaments in Oregon are being maligned by some yokels who seem to have a hard time stringing a couple of coherent thoughts together is laughable at best and pathetic at its core. Nothing could better illustrate the rift in our community. The Bellingers, maintaining the class that they have always had, are staying out of it - just like they did when confronted with the unwarranted maligning they have received from a certain Depot over the years. Good on them. Shame on those who sit here when it is all over and have the gall to malign good people.

[Bullseye]

Oh my... :shocked: I agree with 100% of a Sam post. I'm not really sure how I feel about this. :chug:

This whole thread has gotten ridiculous. The fact that the single greatest contributors to disc golf tournaments in Oregon are being maligned by some yokels who seem to have a hard time stringing a couple of coherent thoughts together is laughable at best and pathetic at its core. Nothing could better illustrate the rift in our community. The Bellingers, maintaining the class that they have always had, are staying out of it - just like they did when confronted with the unwarranted maligning they have received from a certain Depot over the years. Good on them. Shame on those who sit here when it is all over and have the gall to malign good people.

[jevon]

Oh my... :shocked: I agree with 100% of a Sam post. I'm not really sure how I feel about this. :chug:
Don't panic Jeff! We can talk you through this. Now just calm down and take deep breaths. Do you have any Rescue Remedy? If so, take 4 drops under the tongue. If not, take 6 of these :chug: and call me in the morning. Everything will be ok. Hang in there!!!

[Bullseye]

Don't panic Jeff! We can talk you through this. Now just calm down and take deep breaths. Do you have any Rescue Remedy? If so, take 4 drops under the tongue. If not, take 6 of these :chug: and call me in the morning. Everything will be ok. Hang in there!!!

Thank you. My panic attack is gradually fading.

[keith_shupp]

I know that the Oregon series has been around since the late 80,s and there has been several groups who have run the series over the years. so their is nothing wrong in keeping the name Oregon series.

I would like to say great job to the bellingers and there crew for doing a great job for running the series and building oregon disc golf. I cant believe there are so many people upset about how much money was made. the series was well run and they sold out there events and it sounds like many people were very happy about the events. since I have been playing many different groups have run disc golf events in the NW and its seems that burn out has happen to all of us but one thing that keeps popping up over the years is the small group of disc golfers who are quick to put down or bitch about how things were done or handled. so this small group of people who bitch should get together and see if they can do any better.

It is wasted time on putting down people who have done great things for the sport. It would be better if everyone focus on how to make the next series better for this year.

P.S. jub you should focus on Washington disc golf and stay out of Oregon if you dont like how things are done down here.

[Scott]

P.S. jub you should focus on Washington disc golf and stay out of Oregon if you dont like how things are done down here.

Post of the year.

:rockon:

[LJ Jubner]

Yeah now these Questions have been around since the beginning and still they fester and need answers

So Keith answer the questions then:

You were the spearhead for the Ore series at Full Sail correct?
Did Full Sail provide money either to be paid back or as a donation to get the Ore series started? Which one?
When Full sail made their money available What was their intent? To support all the sport or just some who were in a position to take advantage of it?

Did FS offer any suggestions on how best to spend the money or was it all left up to the series Coord to decide where, when and how much?

And If assets were acquired who owned them the series or it coord?

My next question goes straight to the heart of the matter

When the current Coord retired (and you said it yourself ...everyone gets burned out)
Who owned all that had been acquired? series or were they parting gifts?

[Sam]

Wow, man... you just don't know when to quit.

You were the spearhead for the Ore series at Full Sail correct?
I believe that this is correct. I don't mean to answer for Keith but I believe this is the only question worth answering.

Did Full Sail provide money either to be paid back or as a donation to get the Ore series started? Which one?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

When Full sail made their money available What was their intent?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

To support all the sport or just some who were in a position to take advantage of it?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

Did FS offer any suggestions on how best to spend the money or was it all left up to the series Coord to decide where, when and how much?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

And If assets were acquired who owned them the series or it coord?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

My next question goes straight to the fart of the matter

When the current Coord retired (and you said it yourself ...everyone gets burned out)
Who owned all that had been acquired? series or were they parting gifts?
I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

Seriously... was it YOUR money that bought this stuff? If not, guess what Jub? It is none of your damned business and I hope no one ever attempts to answer these questions for you any broader than I have.

Go golf. Get a lobotomy. Have a cup of tea. Whatever it takes for you to just drop this. The Bellingers are gone. You are going to have to find a new enemy now. Maybe if you are lucky this time, you will find one who gives a damn about anything you might have to say.

[all2common]

Perhaps Jub would like to take a stab at trying to fill the "void". He has plenty of time and competence to run what we knew as the ORS and expand upon that foundation...right Jub?

[Sausage Fingers]

I know that the Oregon series has been around since the late 80,s and there has been several groups who have run the series over the years. so their is nothing wrong in keeping the name Oregon series.

I would like to say great job to the bellingers and there crew for doing a great job for running the series and building oregon disc golf. I cant believe there are so many people upset about how much money was made. the series was well run and they sold out there events and it sounds like many people were very happy about the events. since I have been playing many different groups have run disc golf events in the NW and its seems that burn out has happen to all of us but one thing that keeps popping up over the years is the small group of disc golfers who are quick to put down or bitch about how things were done or handled. so this small group of people who bitch should get together and see if they can do any better.

It is wasted time on putting down people who have done great things for the sport. It would be better if everyone focus on how to make the next series better for this year.

Damn, this is a great post! Thanks for dropping by and I hope to see you on the course more often!:cheers:

[LJ Jubner]

So SAM it seems the Ore series is more like Citicorp and B of A. Each was handed money with no strings attached. So I guess I should be happy at least they said they say they spent some on Disc Golf. If you ask me spending on DG is what Depot does. How many courses has the series put in compared to Depot? This is the same exact thing that happened at SeaTac. FS gave a very unstable person control of the project and now he holds the all of it hostage because he wants to be bought out. And that was for the sport also.

Sam you like to speak of the divides in this sport Right? I believe that things like these because instead of supporting the sport they become personal slush funds. Someone gets a sponsor and either keeps them all to themselves or discovers one I got and pesters them so much they quit donating all together. Like Yoshinos, He was a great sponsor back in 02-03 but the BSF team badgered him so badly he said ..."I don't ever want that woman in my office again"...

My headline for this post "Let them eat cake"

[Bullseye]

So SAM it seems the Ore series is more like Citicorp and B of A. Each was handed money with no strings attached. So I guess I should be happy at least they said they say they spent some on Disc Golf. If you ask me spending on DG is what Depot does. How many courses has the series put in compared to Depot? This is the same exact thing that happened at SeaTac. FS gave a very unstable person control of the project and now he holds the all of it hostage because he wants to be bought out. And that was for the sport also.

Sam you like to speak of the divides in this sport Right? I believe that things like these because instead of supporting the sport they become personal slush funds. Someone gets a sponsor and either keeps them all to themselves or discovers one I got and pesters them so much they quit donating all together. Like Yoshinos, He was a great sponsor back in 02-03 but the BSF team badgered him so badly he said ..."I don't ever want that woman in my office again"...

My headline for this post "Let them eat cake"

Jub,

Seriously. I have to laugh when I read you rambling on about "divides". The only person I consistantly see "dividing" anything around here is YOU. You've got a burr up your ass about the ORS Series and the PDGA and for some reason you just can't seem to STFU about it.

Go and read Keith Shupp's post again. Especially the post-script. It was a thing of art.

Jeff

PS: Now I'm going to go see if I figure out how to put someone on ignorant... err I mean ignore.

[Leftybagger]

PS: Now I'm going to go see if I figure out how to put someone on ignorant... err I mean ignore.

I actually have chosen to not activate this on a few different people on the forum. It gives me a laugh when I read the posts that these particular ignorant people post... I just don't respond to them for obvious reasons!

[Sam]

Thank you, Jeff. I was going to respond but I figured... why bother? It's not like Jub is listening to other posters here and just wants to get his time in up on the soapbox. I figure if he does and no one responds to him, he will grow tired of it and stop. We'll see...

[Flash]

This Thread and replies really makes me laugh!

There are only two persons on here who have been involved in an Oregon Series events and a possible third who has initiated it but felt their initiation was enough to define their point. Sounds like those two individuals may be conflicting on the additional funds portion but so be it.

I had this great response worked up and ready to send but I decided not to, until someone who is complaining can provide evidence to support their claim. Do some research and provide real evidence not speculation and then we can talk until then, keep festering!

So here is your given, do the math and then we will see the rest of the story.
Oregon Series Fees: $3.00
Oregon Series Fees to recoupe travel expenses last year:$2.00
Average Attendance at events:varies by year, selling out last 3 years or so
Tee Shirts for playing 4 events:???
Prizes for Playing all events:???
Trophies for End of Year Winners 1st-3rd all divisions:???
Payout to Qualifiers all Divisions:???
All events were PDGA in the last 4-5 years so you have everything you need

http://www.pdga.com/
http://www.orsdiscgolf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=71

Oh yeah don't forget these expenses,
Website hosting fees
Website design
Travel Expenses before additional fee
Not able to maintain a job and the series!
Time invested into the PDGA to help the Northwest!

Also food for thought:
Oregon Series = Service provided to TD's, Clubs and Players
Disc Golf Depot = Business, intended to make money or offset habit costs
Number of post replying to my post with actual data = less than the # of posts complaining.

Oregon Series != Disc Golf Depot .................(!= means Not Equal)
Stop comparing the two they perform different functions!!!!!

[DexterHawk]

AMEN!!!!

Wow...
I choose not to participate in this thread because of all of the backstabbing and speculation!
Bottom Line, the oregon series provided a great service. One that, if is not replaced, will be dearly missed. I will now have to travel further and pay more to play in events that are of the quality to which I have become accustomed. I wish that we would stop using this thread to squabble about the past... which none of us can change... and start using it to get present about mourning the loss of the Series and get goal oriented about the future of PDGA disc golf in Oregon.

Thanks for your thoughts Flash...
You've always been willing to put your money where your mouth is!

[Adam Schneider]

I wish that we would stop using this thread to squabble about the past... which none of us can change... and start using it to get present about mourning the loss of the Series and get goal oriented about the future of PDGA disc golf in Oregon.
This thread should be allowed to die an ignoble death and buried in an unmarked grave. I'd start a new thread if you want to discuss a brighter future.

[Sam]

You've always been willing to put your money where your mouth is!

This is NOT sanitary, however. Plus... you'll eat cocaine!

[snap7times]

This is NOT sanitary, however. Plus... you'll eat cocaine!

speaking from expirience I see...

[purediscgolf]

I really do hate to admit it. I really do. Jub has some made a couple good points here. I have been away from this thread for a while. As have many people I see.

It is important for us to ask those questions. I don't really see how it is strictly the Bellingers business. The investment was put up for a series meant for the players. If they are not going to run the Oregon Series anymore how can they justify keeping all the supplies? If we had access to this equipment to pick up right where we left off than none of this would have probably happened.

I for one am saddened we are LOSING the infrastructure of the Oregon Series. It no doubt was a massive undertaking. Only those individuals that have full time committment to Disc Golf could have done this.

I am very grateful for all the Bellingers have done. In no way am I trying to downplay all that has gone on for the past 8 years. It just seems a bit strange to me on how they can simply walk away after all this time....Keep the organizational supplies that WAS the Oregon Series(saying it is for running future events, not the OR Series tho....).....without anyone asking any questions.....Then when someone brings up these points THEY are the ones being criticized.....? It is all detrimental to the sport.

Yes, Jub is typically a bit eccentric. You can't detour from the fact that just because he is a WA player that excludes him from our conversations. WE ARE ALL A DISC GOLF FAMILY. Jub may be the uncle no one calls on Holidays but we are a family nevertheless. He can sit back and bitch about OR Disc Golf all he wants. That's his right. All we can do is kill 'em with kindness. When we engage this negativity though is when "they" win. It's a power struggle.

Questions are a healthy way of gathering information on a particular subject. If these questions were to be answered than this could all have gone a more positive direction.

We are moving toward the future but this should not be without looking at the past and knowing where we came from. Somehow, Someway, Someone, is going to twist this post into a negative attack at the Bellingers. This is not the case. We are merely asking them as the exiting coordinators where we are as an Organization. Like any new management would. When you buy a company you typically get to look at their books....... When you buy a car don't you wanna look under the hood or kick the tires a couple times?

I for one, as an 8 year member of the Oregon Series, would love to have this
information become transparent.:chinscratch:

We are asking eachother where do we go from here, correct? The future!!! It will bring with it the truth. Time will either promote or expose everything.
:yay::nahnah:




Wow, man... you just don't know when to quit.


I believe that this is correct. I don't mean to answer for Keith but I believe this is the only question worth answering.


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?


I believe that this would be between Full Sail and the Bellingers. How would it be YOUR business?

Seriously... was it YOUR money that bought this stuff? If not, guess what Jub? It is none of your damned business and I hope no one ever attempts to answer these questions for you any broader than I have.

Go golf. Get a lobotomy. Have a cup of tea. Whatever it takes for you to just drop this. The Bellingers are gone. You are going to have to find a new enemy now. Maybe if you are lucky this time, you will find one who gives a damn about anything you might have to say.

[Sausage Fingers]

When you buy a company you typically get to look at their books....... When you buy a car don't you wanna look under the hood or kick the tires a couple times?

I didn't realize that YOU were buying the Oregon Series! Sweet! How much are you paying to buy the Oregon Series? Where are YOUR tax returns? I'd like to see your books! What's that? Don't want your personal information out on the web for all to see and bitch about? Jub will be on your ass from now until eternity until you cough up those books!

Really...:pirate:

[purediscgolf]

Missing the point completely......Here we go again.

[chris7graham]

:yay::biggrin2::explode:WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO HEY YOUR MISSING THE WHOLE POINT WE LOVE PLAYING DISC GOLF SO LETS DO THIS ENOUGH WITH THE HE SAID SHE SAID BULL SHIT COME ON PEOPLE GROW UP:cheers::headbang:

[Sausage Fingers]

Missing the point completely......Here we go again.

If that's not your point, fine. Then why bring up a bogus argument like that in the first place? There were other things in your post that I disagree with too, but that was the most blatant and I couldn't let it pass.

I'm still not clear on the perception that as a player in the Oregon Series you are part of 'The Organization'. It seems to me that the players are the clients of 'The Organization' and unless you helped run the tourneys you are not part of 'The Organization'.

I, too, have played DG for the last 12 years or so. 8 years ago you could travel to another city and show up Saturday morning to pay and get in a tourney. Today we have people frothing at the mouth wondering when sign-up starts so that they don't get shut out in the mad rush to pre-register. I wonder why that is...:pirate:

[LJ Jubner]

I didn't realize that YOU were buying the Oregon Series! Sweet! How much are you paying to buy the Oregon Series? Where are YOUR tax returns? I'd like to see your books! What's that? Don't want your personal information out on the web for all to see and bitch about? Jub will be on your ass from now until eternity until you cough up those books!

Really...:pirate:

Jordy You got the point AS a business only certain people have the rights to look at your books. As you know if they are publicly held and or traded they must show different levels of books to different type of people. Stock holders get a nice distilled version of whats going on. Like Andrew said If you are buying them Then you have the right to see the complete books. If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.

If you are a non profit then anyone who contributes to you has the right to see what going on. My problem with the series is a matter of perception. That they started the series as a not for profit (subtle difference in wording but huge difference in responsibility) between not for and non profit. and with the recent O.B.E.'s for the series staff. Can Canonization be far behind? Only time will tell.

Was the Ore series "Not for" or "non" profit?

If "not for" then we are stuck and just threw the dough down a hole. Granted they somewhat fun (I still don't like Pools, ghosts or 5 somes)
But if not for then I really strongly disagree with the statement of the 80k contribution because they get to keep the Dog and Pony Show

Hence my other question As a player, do I have the right choose to not give to the series but designate that fee as a donation to the club instead?

[Sam]

If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.

And for getting rich, obviously. I hear that the Bellingers are actually planning to sail around the world in the luxury yacht that they got from all of those $3 entry fees over the next year. This burn out story is just a cover.

[purediscgolf]

The NW Alliance would like to structure a fee system where the Local Club gets a portion up front. I feel a $5 fee that is broken down into $2 for the Local Club, $1 for the NW Alliance, $1 for Administrative costs, $1 to series Final Payout. This shows that the cash is being used for various reasons and supports all organizations. Then you add in the $3 PDGA Fees and $2 Acepot for each day. It gives you a nice round $10/per person from every event for various organizations.

Players are starting to realize that things do not just happen on their own. We must all step up and come together to build on the future.

I know that if you stress to make everyone happy it is a losing struggle. No matter what you do someone out there will find exception to it. Progress must be made no matter what the obstacle.

What would be the problem with having a B-tier every weekend in the NW? Keeping to the PDGA standard that is set of 50 miles apart. This would give people a choice on where they would like to travel. We do not agree that back to back weekends is saturating the Calendar. Events are now filling months in advance. This is just going to give players more options for the future. It will start holding events to a higher standard of quality.

Players enjoy some events over others for various reason. This is due somewhat to the course, scheduling, atmosphere, payout, and factor of fun. Putting on premier events will cause a ripple effect through the region.

Whether we acknowledge it or not every one of us critiques each event in our own way. When we tell people how much fun we had or mention something which effected your experience. However it comes out, it's up to those that couldn't attend to make the choice if they wish to in the future from our perceptions and reactions.

Oregon Series events have been held to a very high standard. Which is a badge of honor everyone should wear. How are those who are picking up the pieces going to keep this standard intact without the existing infrastructure?

[LJ Jubner]

If you ask me the ORE. series was the perfect business model for running an event or series for profit.


It was a complement about how well though out it (ORE series) was. I just find it hard to believe they did not make money. You know the old wholesale retail gouging argument. How can the same regular disc be valued so drastically different from vendor to vendor?

It's interesting how well you spin sam. You made my complement into a dig?
Maybe you could offer some insight instead of quick quips and jabs.

What do you think about my question? Can players decline to participate in series fees or designate them as donations to the "local host clubs"?

[Sausage Fingers]

As a player, do I have the right choose to not give to the series but designate that fee as a donation to the club instead?

No. You have the right to play in the event or to not play in the event. Look at how the fees are set up and who gets what and make your informed decision as to whether you want to participate.

And Jubby, you know I love you, but the coherence of the last post escapes me. I was able to get the question pretty clear though so I answered that.:pirate:

[purediscgolf]

Series Fees are a developing topic. Under the NWDGA, the NW Series portion will only be $3 ($1 NWDGA, $1 Admin Fees, $1 Payout. $2 will go to the hosting Local Club. Please read my above post for more explanation on Fees.

Fees are always going to be a huge discussion topic. Just the word "Fees" expresses that you "owe" something. Well I feel we all do. We owe it to ourselves....

Discussions are underway to allow existing events (Windy, Ft Stilly, Lava) to become part of the NW Series without instituting any Series Fee.

It seems silly to detour people from future development of a region for $3. It could be offered as an optional Fee for those players who wish to qualify for the Series Final. It seems like a pety thing to ask for $3 ($1 NWDGA, $1 AD Fees, $1 Series Payout) from people after they have pre-registered. Announcements could be made to come to the NWDGA table for new memberships and to "sign up" for the Series. This way only the players who have plans to make enough events can choose to sign in or not. Points will be totaled for all players at these events but will only count towards a "qualifying player's" Top 3. I would love to have some input from you all.

[Flash]

It was a complement about how well though out it (ORE series) was. I just find it hard to believe they did not make money. You know the old wholesale retail gouging argument. How can the same regular disc be valued so drastically different from vendor to vendor?

It's interesting how well you spin sam. You made my complement into a dig?
Maybe you could offer some insight instead of quick quips and jabs.

What do you think about my question? Can players decline to participate in series fees or designate them as donations to the "local host clubs"?

Jub you completely ignored my post and I am feeling left out. Go back and read it, calculate how far a $3.00 dollar fee goes, factor in all the items I described and then tell us how much profit was attained from this adventure. I know it could require some work on your part and some assumptions but you are good at those so I will wait patiently for your reply.

Oregon Series was classified as nothing it is just a series of events, Northwest Disc Golf Promotions was classified as a Not-for-Profit.

Andrew, I don't take your posts as a dig against the Bellingers and you have always been supportive of the Oregon Series. I appreciate the path you are taking and the amount of work you will be putting forth into disc golf. I think we both know that most of the information on here is speculation and if we want real answers we need to go to the source. Perhaps you can ask these same questions to Cris and Teresa directly but by no means are they required to post on any forum about anything regarding the Oregon Series and their involvement for the last 8 years. Their public service announcement was nothing more than that and should be read as an announcement.

Good luck and I look forward to the Northwest Series!