Mid-range disc trouble

[YukiYamani]

Since I've read on here that my mid-range discs should be traveling around 300 feet, I decided to give it a try today. This is when i found a little problem...

First off, I have a Star Kite, and a Skeeter in my bag. I also own a Buzz, and the 2010 Ace Race edition of the Hornet. Today i was throwing the Kite and the Skeeter.

Every time i tried to throw them for any distance, they instantly turned over and headed to the right. How can I fix this issue? I'm pretty sure I'm releasing them level, they just kept turning over on me. Should I be using a different disc?

P.S. I throw RHBH

[CMC206]

Throwing to hard. Power down.

[General Scales]

Smooth is the way to be. Watch your wrist when you are throwing for power. Most people that are ripping for distance are turning their hand over when they release, trying to helix their big meaty overstable drivers. This will not work for most midranges (Drones and Whippets are a different breed). Throw it flat and let the disc do the work.

On average, I try to throw my mids between the distances of 200-300 feet. Anything under 200 is a putter shot 95 percent of the time. Anything over 300 (for me at least) is a fairway driver.

Hope this helps a little.

[Adam Schneider]

Yuki, how far are your drives going? You probably won't be able to throw a Buzzz 300' unless you can throw a driver 400'.

(My drives are around 320' and I can get my Buzzz and Wasp out to around 250' on flat ground.)

[Bullseye]

Most mid range discs are high-speed understable, so the key to effectively throwing them is to slow down your arm speed, but increase the amount of spin you put on the disc. Mid-range discs will carry a long way if they have enough spin on them.

[Sean Phillips]

All very good advice.

Also, try using a fan or modified fan grip with your mids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ABf6csQpM

Work your way up to 300' over the next year. If you're getting 250, great. Don't rush it, slow and smooth.

[Adam Schneider]

Mid-range discs will carry a long way if they have enough spin on them.
They also need some height, by the way; you're not going to throw a mid-range past 200' with a low ceiling.

[COV45]

These are the right answers, but you can also try releasing your disc with a little hyzer on it, throw it so its left side is down when you release, then it'll level out and gradually turn right.

[YukiYamani]

Thanks to everyone who posted. I most likely am throwing to hard, so I'll have to work on it. Most of my drives, if going for distance, I throw side arm, and will get 350 feet or more out of em. I learned to throw side arm first, so my backhand needs more work, which is what I'm focusing on this year. My backhand drives seem to cross the 300 mark... so I'm getting there.

I'll have to try your suggestions in the morning. Thanks again.

[JMan]

COV45 has the key...understable plastic needs a hyzer release...try winging a 175 Ultimate disc...let it pop up flat, add the increased snap and you're in...well that and decades of practice, enjoy

[Scott]

It may not be realistic to expect your midranges to go 300' if your drivers are just barely getting there.

[YukiYamani]

yeah, i understand that. but i did read on here that the way to get good with drivers, is first to be able to throw your putter 200'. i can do that. then it said your mid range should fly around 300' so i figured i'd focus on that next. And thats when i ran into the problem. So i know i probably wont get 300 out of it. but i could work my way up to 300 with my mid range and then hopefully break the mystical 400 mark with my drivers in the not to distant future.

[ericedge]

At the 2000 World Championships in Michigan I went to a clinic given by 1999 Champ Ron Russell. He was sponsored by Discraft at the time and offered some good advise about learning to throw properly. He was really big on the Comet, which is on the more understable side, but what he recommended would work great with almost any mid. He said to go to an open field with a friend and start by just throwing back and forth from about 100' or so to warm up. Then start to move back in 50' increments all the while trying to hit your partner in the numbers with straight shots until you get out to around 300'-350' (or more?). By starting out close together and moving apart slowly I think you'll develop much better "touch" with whatever mid-range disc you use. His philosophy was that if you could control a straight shot like that with a mid-range disc, you'd be able to control a lot more shots with the rest of your bag too.

[Jeff Hemmerling]

[Ron Russell's] philosophy was that if you could control a straight shot like that with a mid-range disc, you'd be able to control a lot more shots with the rest of your bag too.Amen brother! :)

[YukiYamani]

sounds fantastic. next time i get a chance, i'll have to drag my buddy out across the street and start trying to kill him with a mid range lol.

Anywho... its raining here this morning. so i didnt get the chance to test anything out yet. maybe tomorrow morning. i'll keep you posted

Thanks again to everyone. you all are shaping a better disc golfer out of me.

[YukiYamani]

It was a little windy. But I did get to try some of your suggestions. Tried it out mainly on my Buzz. I did release with a hyzer, and watched it pop back level and turn to the right. And it flew pretty good... just have to get used to the fan grip.

Do all mid-range discs turn to the right like that when throwing RHBH? Or are there discs that will fly straight then turn to the left more like a driver?

[The Ombudsman]

I find most Roc molds to be more stable than any buzz I have ever thrown.

[YukiYamani]

I find most Roc molds to be more stable than any buzz I have ever thrown.

Any specific type of plastic that you suggest?

[DMajor]

It was a little windy. But I did get to try some of your suggestions. Tried it out mainly on my Buzz. I did release with a hyzer, and watched it pop back level and turn to the right. And it flew pretty good... just have to get used to the fan grip.

Do all mid-range discs turn to the right like that when throwing RHBH? Or are there discs that will fly straight then turn to the left more like a driver?

Keep your follow through on the same angle as the hyzer all the way through and you should be able to make the disc flip to straight and then hyzer out. If your buzz is really beat up that might not work. I'm sure there are people on this site that can hyzer flip their buzz over 350 without turning it over at all.

[Adam Schneider]

are there discs that will fly straight then turn to the left more like a driver?
Definitely. In Discraft's lineup, the Wasp, Hornet, and Drone (in that order) all have less high-speed turn than the Buzzz. It's nearly impossible to get a Drone to flip over to the right.

[YukiYamani]

I do have two of the 2010 ace race edition of the hornet. I think i remember reading that they're a little different than the ones released fully... cant even think of what they call that... but i digress...

I'll have to try those next time... I ended up putting them away cuz they were making me upset lol

[Adam Schneider]

I don't remember hearing what the difference is between Ace Race Hornets and production ones, but no matter what they'll be more overstable than a Buzzz.

[YukiYamani]

I don't remember hearing what the difference is between Ace Race Hornets and production ones, but no matter what they'll be more overstable than a Buzzz.

Time to put one back in the bag then lol

[TreeLove]

I find most Roc molds to be more stable than any buzz I have ever thrown.

Interesting, I have observed the opposite (once I started throwing the ESP FLX Buzzz, that is!)

[The Ombudsman]

Any specific type of plastic that you suggest?

I love the Roc in Star plastic.

[YukiYamani]

I love the Roc in Star plastic.

Alrighty then, I'll have to give that try at some point. It seems a lot of people like the Roc

[Trozzle!!!]

I hate the Roc, too many iff molds to try figure out. A BUzzz is pretty much the only Discraft I throw, but no matter what mold i throw they all pretty much work the same for me

[General Scales]

Discs that are not flippy immediately (at least in the discraft line up).

Wasp
Hornet
Drone

FLX Buzzz in heavier weights isn't flippy per-say, but easy to make stay in any direction. FLX Buzzz's are the only Buzzz I throw.

[YukiYamani]

I got to throw my buzz a little yesterday. definitely works better than my Kite. I'l have to toss my Ace Race edition Hornet today. I'll let ya know how it goes when i get back

[Burge]

BUZZZ BUZZZ BUZZZ

Love the Buzzz. Yes, you can get a Buzzz out to 300'-350', but only with a hyzer-flip and a ton of spin -- definitely not the job for a fan-grip. It's particularly challenging to get a Buzzz to go 300' on a tight line, but it is possible.

[YukiYamani]

BUZZZ BUZZZ BUZZZ

Love the Buzzz. Yes, you can get a Buzzz out to 300'-350', but only with a hyzer-flip and a ton of spin -- definitely not the job for a fan-grip. It's particularly challenging to get a Buzzz to go 300' on a tight line, but it is possible.

Alright, if you can't use a fan grip to et it to go that far, what type of grip do you suggest?

In a related issue... i seem to have a real hard time holding my fingers in a fan grip form...

[Adam Schneider]

When I need to throw my midranges over 150', I just use the same grip that I do on my drivers.

[YukiYamani]

When I need to throw my midranges over 150', I just use the same grip that I do on my drivers.

Do you use a power grip? Because the power grip always felt cluttered to me. so i only tuck three fingers against the rim and tuck my pinky out of the way

[Adam Schneider]

Do you use a power grip? Because the power grip always felt cluttered to me. so i only tuck three fingers against the rim and tuck my pinky out of the way
I rarely include the pinky -- especially with mid-ranges.

[YukiYamani]

I rarely include the pinky -- especially with mid-ranges.

yeah, it just feels weird lol, i may have to figure out a little different grip for my mid range discs. but i'm not sure yet. I gotta throw some more first.

[Burge]

Alright, if you can't use a fan grip to et it to go that far, what type of grip do you suggest?

In a related issue... i seem to have a real hard time holding my fingers in a fan grip form...

Like Adam, I use the same grip rip for driving, whether it's a Buzzz or an Avenger. I guess you would call it a variation of the standard power grip.

The pinky, ring and middle fingers are the lock point and grip the disc at the tips of the fingers rather than the pads (with the fingernails flat against the bottom of the flight plate) and the index (being the rip point) gripping with the pad of the finger. This gives me the most control during the release, but on a really big drive I will grip with all four fingers at the tips. I think gripping with the tips instead of the pads of the fingers is key to an effective 'power' grip because it requires much less grip force to pull the disc through the snap. As a quick comparison, rest your throwing arm on your lap with the palm facing up and curl your fingers up as if they were gripping a disc. Now, while attempting to maintain your 'grip', use the thumb of your other hand to pull open your fingers by first placing pressure against the pads and then placing pressure against the tips. You should notice that it requires quite a lot of hand strength to resist opening your grip when you push on the pads of your fingers, but when you push against the tips, not only does your grip stay solid, but it requires a fraction of the strength to maintain.

Also, I never leave my pinky out on any drive...it's a disc -- not a cup of tea.:wink2:

[Rakoz]

I use the 2 finger grip on just about everything (forehand, backhand, tomahawk). I have moved to a 3 finger grip on big drives but 4 just feels uncomfortable.

[YukiYamani]

I have some news in the mid range department today.

I can proudly state that i was able to throw my buzz approximately 290' this morning.

[Ol' Bob]

Big deal. I can do that from the top of a 60 foot cliff.

[chris7graham]

I'm a big midrange thrower and I say using a power grip is great, all four fingers underneath the rim.And the hornet production model is so much more over stable then the ace race one,because it's made from different plastic.I'd say throw how you feel is comfortable to you.And remember what's good for one is not good for another do what you feel is right,what feels good.:seeya:

[DMajor]

I have some news in the mid range department today.

I can proudly state that i was able to throw my buzz approximately 290' this morning.


What was the biggest difference maker?

[YukiYamani]

What was the biggest difference maker?

I started releasing my mid-ranges with a severe hyzer, put some extra snap on it, and watched as the disc popped up level and flew for 290'. It was a fantastic sight.

Thank-you all who have helped. I'm seeing the fruits of your "labor" lol.

[YukiYamani]

So I haven't been able to throw my buzz that far again, but I did throw my Ace Race Edition Hornet that far. I ended up just throwing it regularly. It came out a little wobbly, but when it straightened out it took a little turn to the right then faded left. Thought it was going to crash into the chains for a second or two... but no such luck.

[Mikk]

178 Cryztal Z Buzz. 350 ft drive. Would have been way better if I didn't hyzer so badly....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=684zDxXw0UM&feature=player_detailpage

[Ol' Bob]

Would have been way better if...

Stop, you're breaking my heart.

[YukiYamani]

Stop, you're breaking my heart.

yeah... no kidding...

[Bryon_Harris]

I started releasing my mid-ranges with a severe hyzer, put some extra snap on it, and watched as the disc popped up level and flew for 290'. It was a fantastic sight.

Thank-you all who have helped. I'm seeing the fruits of your "labor" lol.

Don't wanna come off cotrarian or dark but what constitutes , "extra" snap? Shouldn't "snap" kinda always be the goal of the whole swing?

[Ol' Bob]

If anyone does have a little extra snap, I could sure use it, but only if you can spare it.

[YukiYamani]

Don't wanna come off cotrarian or dark but what constitutes , "extra" snap? Shouldn't "snap" kinda always be the goal of the whole swing?

if you had read everything on this thread you would have seen that i couldn't throw a mid range at all. So, coming from no snap, any snap would be constituted as extra snap.

[The Ombudsman]

It sounds like you need some 'Old School' advice. Throwing a putter or midrange requires a technique more akin to throwing catch discs than modern day drivers. I did a search on the web and was lucky to find a great treatise written in 1982 by former World Champion Craig Simon entitled "Frisbie: Beyond Catch and Throw (http://www.rkey.com/da/throw.html)"
Heady stuff indeed...