2011 Farragut Open - Oct. 8th - 9th

[ScottW]

Here's the link to the list of registered players for the Farragut Open so far. I know Jack has received the proof for online registration through the PDGA but it's not available yet. It will be a PDGA B-Tier event. There will be 3 pools of players and all 3 courses will be played. I will try to get the flyer posted soon as well. Holler if you have questions or if you might be able to help out with sponsorship - I do have a sponsorship flyer I can e-mail out.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/70351

[Lyounger]

I certainly understand why the date was changed but I'm totally bummed I won't be able to attend the INWS Finals now...especially since it's at the Gut.

BUMMER :-(

[General Scales]

I can't wait for this tournament. It's going to be amazing. Anything at Faragut is amazing.

[ScottW]

Here's the link to online registration through PDGA pending final approval from Jack. Get signed up sooner rather than later and help make the TDs life a little easier. Sanctioned disc golf tournaments ARE NOT easy to run so do your part as a player and sign up early.

http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1306954618

[ScottW]

I just landed another really nice cash sponsor to the Farragut Open list of sponsors. BIG THANKS to Dr. Michael McDonald, MD, orthopaedic surgeon, and the entire Northwest Orthopaedic Specialists group. Once again proving why they are the best orthopaedic surgeon group in town :yay:

I think so far that makes 2 BIG cash sponsors with 2 other large sponsorships on the way - 1 being from Rapid Fire Plastics Disc Golf in Post Falls and another that I won't mention yet only because it is not a for sure thing yet. Can't wait for this one.

[mine all mine]

Hope I will be able to make this one. I am not sure what my work schedule looks like for October. Fingers crossed that I can make it

[General Scales]

Signed up today. Got myself in the ace pot and am stoked to play it this year. I missed last years and was upset about it.

[General Scales]

Played all the courses on Saturday. Shot pretty hot on Northstar and Wreckreator. Shot decent on A.W.O.L (formerly Double Black Diamond). Question is, what is the layout going to be this year? I'm assuming that it's going to be all three of the regular courses but in what order for what divisions?

Plus, what is the course rating on A.W.O.L as of the moment? I shot a 3 over on Saturday so I know that it's got to be better than that.

[ScottW]

I think Jack listed it on the flyer but I am pretty sure pool A (probably Open and Adv divisions) will play NorthStar & Wreckreator on Sat. then DBD/AWOL (whatever) on Sun. The other divisions will be something else but we will NOT have all 3 courses in play at the same time per request of the park to keep at least one course open to casual players - hence the cap of 144ish.

I thought based on last years FO that the SSA for DBD was about a 58 for 1000 rating. Could be wrong though.

[prospect]

57.19 was the SSA last year on dbd

[Yoduh]

Hoping that the A pool could entirely skip the Northstar. There will be at least 10 alternate tees or pins in place by the beginning of the Farragut Open. The tougher of the 2 layouts should be SSA over 60. Also I do not think that it's a good idea to leave the DBD as the open course for the public. Hope to get into some course work on the NorthStar too. There are some really nasty spots on the fairways and greens.. You know, 15ft from the pin with no look at all?

[Yoduh]

I just landed another really nice cash sponsor to the Farragut Open list of sponsors. BIG THANKS to Dr. Michael McDonald, MD, orthopaedic surgeon, and the entire Northwest Orthopaedic Specialists group. Once again proving why they are the best orthopaedic surgeon group in town :yay:

I think so far that makes 2 BIG cash sponsors with 2 other large sponsorships on the way - 1 being from Rapid Fire Plastics Disc Golf in Post Falls and another that I won't mention yet only because it is not a for sure thing yet. Can't wait for this one.

He has won the national dentist of the year award. So I guess that means he is the best in town by a ways!

[General Scales]

I'd like to see the Advanced players play some sort of crazy arrangement of Wreckreator and DBD instead of Northstar. Then again, I really have no problem playing Northstar either. I love all the courses at Idaho's little slice of disc golf heaven.

[ScottW]

He has won the national dentist of the year award. So I guess that means he is the best in town by a ways!

Uhhhhh...crickets here:confused: Jeremy! Not sure if that was a joke or if you have the name confused with someone else. Orthopaedic surgeons are the ones who fix your broken bones, or torn ligaments/tendons. He doesn't work with teeth :biggrin2: He specializes in arthroscopic repair of the shoulder complex, i.e. rotator cuff repairs and labral repairs and also does a hell of a job on knees as well. Perhaps you know of some players who throw nothing but thumbers and tomahawks? He would be a good one to go see when they all start tearing their rotator cuffs and other structures. I know a few of those players:slapface: Most seem to be beginners who aren't willing to learn how to throw backhand or sidearm.

[Sean Johnson]

If the whole field of players is only allowed on two courses at a time, it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least if I never stepped foot on North Star. Nothing against it or anything, but it's not really in the same league as the other two.

[ScottW]

Jeremy, Liked your ideas on the format change up for F.O. and talked to Jack about it at league tonight. He'll definitely consider doing something and he also seemed intrigued by the idea of a shotgun start on Sun. for pool B on whatever course they are on and tee times for pool A. Here were my suggestions - remember they were only suggestions nothing definitive:

Pool A - Open and Advanced Divisions - DBD & Wrecreator on Sat. DBD on Sunday.
Pool B - all other divisions - Wreckreator & NorthStar on Sat. Wreckreator again on Sun. OR Wrerckreator DBD on Sat. NorthStar on Sun.

Anyone's thoughts are welcome.

[Stimpi]

I think Jeremy was thinking of Michael Melkers, DDS, whose wife is partners in McDonald and Melkers Dental Office in Spokane Valley, who often sponsor local events, but Michael McDonald of Post Falls is another doctor altogether.

[General Scales]

Jeremy, Liked your ideas on the format change up for F.O. and talked to Jack about it at league tonight. He'll definitely consider doing something and he also seemed intrigued by the idea of a shotgun start on Sun. for pool B on whatever course they are on and tee times for pool A. Here were my suggestions - remember they were only suggestions nothing definitive:

Pool A - Open and Advanced Divisions - DBD & Wrecreator on Sat. DBD on Sunday.
Pool B - all other divisions - Wreckreator & NorthStar on Sat. Wreckreator again on Sun. OR Wrerckreator DBD on Sat. NorthStar on Sun.

Anyone's thoughts are welcome.

I totally like the idea and I am fully on board with playing DBD twice. Sounds like it's a great way to make people earn those birdies.

[benihana]

I personally like the idea of the Farragut Open playing all three courses. Considering there is only one tournament being held there all year, it would utilize what each course has to offer. If the complaints are having no looks within the circle, it sounds like course maintenance instead of layout. If the complaints are distance, get better at the must birdies. There are a few holes that could stand to be changed but inventive O.B. could stand to make them more challenging. Holes like Northstars 1,6,8,17 all have unique qualities (some of which have been incorperated into DBD like H1's rock wall.)

I personally think playing alternate locations on DBD is a bad decision because those lanes and paths haven't been broken in yet. There has been only one hole change in the past 6+ months and i feel we will fall into the same problem being used to discredit northstar.

The shotgun start for ams and tee times for pros sounds great and would really provide an audience for that lead card.

-the argument for the playing the best SSA rated course would only hold water if you are trying to find the best DBD player. If someone wins the title of Farragut Open Champion i would like to know they earned by conquering all three courses =)

[mine all mine]

I personally like the idea of the Farragut Open playing all three courses. Considering there is only one tournament being held there all year, it would utilize what each course has to offer. If the complaints are having no looks within the circle, it sounds like course maintenance instead of layout. If the complaints are distance, get better at the must birdies. There are a few holes that could stand to be changed but inventive O.B. could stand to make them more challenging. Holes like Northstars 1,6,8,17 all have unique qualities (some of which have been incorperated into DBD like H1's rock wall.)

I personally think playing alternate locations on DBD is a bad decision because those lanes and paths haven't been broken in yet. There has been only one hole change in the past 6+ months and i feel we will fall into the same problem being used to discredit northstar.

The shotgun start for ams and tee times for pros sounds great and would really provide an audience for that lead card.

-the argument for the playing the best SSA rated course would only hold water if you are trying to find the best DBD player. If someone wins the title of Farragut Open Champion i would like to know they earned by conquering all three courses =)

I like what Ben is saying about playing all three courses. I would be coming from Seattle to play there for my first time and it would be a bummer to not play all three courses there. Yes I could play them beforehand, but competition play is a little different.

[ScottW]

First, Dr. McDonald is an orthopaedic surgeon in Spokane Valley (not Post Falls and he is not a dentist), and come to find out that he made that donation out of his pocket and not throught the NWOS board of directors so as to save time and headache. So, if anyone is in need of any services from an orthopaedic surgeon hit up Dr. McDonald and thank him for supporting disc golf.

Second, I like the discussion that we have going here regarding the format for the F.O. As I stated previously I liked Jeremy's ideas of format changes but I don't necessarily think it is the best idea - not that my idea really matters as Jack has the final say. My personal belief is that playing all 3 courses is the way to go. I don't know how you could call it the Farragut Open without using all 3 courses. I like the idea of getting some things cleaned up on NorthStar and perhaps seeing if we could coordinate some volunteers to put down string/mandos to tighten up the course a bit.

I DO like the idea of the shotgun start for pool B on Sunday with the players in Pool A having assigned tee times. Not sure about splitting the Pro and Am divisions into different pools though.

[Kris C]

What's the point of playing at Farragut, with three full courses that all offer different challenges if we're not going to utilize them? My opinion - use all three.

[ScottW]

Christian Dietrich had this to say on the Garden City Flyers Forum - he's followed the link I provided to this website and I thought it was interesting:

Christian

can't wait

To add to the INWS forums chatter, I definitely support the pros NOT playing North Star, even though it's always been the Wreckreator rather than NS that gives me trouble. Two times thru AWOL and one thru the wreckreator sounds legit to me!

[General Scales]

Christian Dietrich had this to say on the Garden City Flyers Forum - he's followed the link I provided to this website and I thought it was interesting:

Christian

can't wait

To add to the INWS forums chatter, I definitely support the pros NOT playing North Star, even though it's always been the Wreckreator rather than NS that gives me trouble. Two times thru AWOL and one thru the wreckreator sounds legit to me!


I look at Northstar the same way that I look at Corbin. It can be tricky but most of the time is quite forgiving. There is only one hole on Northstar that I am happy when I par it. That would be 7 and it's only because I have an issue with the dog leg on it.

I also agree with the shotgun start and the tee times. Tee times would only be pro's or pro's and advanced ams?

I do also agree that all three courses should be played as they are what makes Farragut the best place in the Inland Northwest to play. I will be up there all week for the Farragut open and am more than willing to go lay out OB line on the days prior to the tournament. Maybe if we string OB all over Northstar, it will be just as challenging to everyone as DBD and Wreckreator.

I like all the discussion on this as well. It's going to be the one tournament that everyone should play. To those that don't, sucks to be you.

[ScottW]

Depending on how the grouping goes and how many holes we have I think it would be feasible to have all of Pool A start with assigned tee times with the top Men's Pro Open card going last so more players could follow them.

[Yoduh]

I personally like the idea of the Farragut Open playing all three courses. Considering there is only one tournament being held there all year, it would utilize what each course has to offer. If the complaints are having no looks within the circle, it sounds like course maintenance instead of layout. If the complaints are distance, get better at the must birdies. There are a few holes that could stand to be changed but inventive O.B. could stand to make them more challenging. Holes like Northstars 1,6,8,17 all have unique qualities (some of which have been incorperated into DBD like H1's rock wall.)

I personally think playing alternate locations on DBD is a bad decision because those lanes and paths haven't been broken in yet. There has been only one hole change in the past 6+ months and i feel we will fall into the same problem being used to discredit northstar.

The shotgun start for ams and tee times for pros sounds great and would really provide an audience for that lead card.

-the argument for the playing the best SSA rated course would only hold water if you are trying to find the best DBD player. If someone wins the title of Farragut Open Champion i would like to know they earned by conquering all three courses =)

North Star allows for alot of luck and totally gives a HUGE advantage to thumbers and over hand shots. There isn't a lot of decision making and not alot of risk reward all things that are in plethora on DBD.

There will be much more work put in by me and the Justin (park guy) on the DBD. Hole 1 will have a long pin about 50 feet deep and slightly to the right. Hole 4 will be about 90 ft deeper. Hole 6 will have an alt deep and to the right and it will be a par 5. Hole 8 will have a long tee. Hole 10 will have a pin deep and right. Peaceful Prairie hole 12's alt will not be used but there will be another fairway cut and it will be a true par four. Hole 18 will have a pin 40 feet right. The alt course is the true Dubble Black and the first course would be known as Single Black. Look for SSA of about 60.

I'm not a fan of courses where you can throw almost the exact same throw as the guy that shot -10 and you score a -5. Luck isn't golf in my opinion.
Tee times would be sweet in that it would act as sort of a final 9. When the Ams are done golfing they could make their way over to watch the finishing holes if the felt like it. Having the Open players finish last would also allow the Tournament directors time to get all the scores finalized and the series organizers time to do all the am series points.

As far as the ams playing order of courses I would think that if the open men play SBD-Wreck-DBD Ams would play North-SBD-Wreck

[organic]

Adv Am should be in the same pool as Open they are the next up and coming guys

[Yoduh]

Adv Am should be in the same pool as Open they are the next up and coming guys

agreed! Unless for some reason their is lopsided registration..

[benihana]

Im sorry for the confusion of saying splitting ams and pros when im really meaning a division between intermediate ams playing NS,DBD sunday Wreck(shotgun) and advanced ams/ Pros would play Wreck, NS, sunday DBD tee times.

Im heading up to Farragut Sunday for league and hope to capture some Northstar pics that might convince a few of you.

[Yoduh]

North Star could be a decent course with a lot of work. I like the comparrison of North Star to Corbin. It's a little tricky but not a professional course by any means. I ran 2 PDGA events at Corbin Park the 2nd and 3rd year of the INWS and even though I had more cash added than most other events I could only get 11 and 12 Open players to come. Most events were drawing at least 20. These types of courses just don't measure true golf skill. There are way to many greens that leave no putts on the North Star. The lack of decisions to be made on the course make it really easy.

[General Scales]

North Star could be a decent course with a lot of work. I like the comparrison of North Star to Corbin. It's a little tricky but not a professional course by any means. I ran 2 PDGA events at Corbin Park the 2nd and 3rd year of the INWS and even though I had more cash added than most other events I could only get 11 and 12 Open players to come. Most events were drawing at least 20. These types of courses just don't measure true golf skill. There are way to many greens that leave no putts on the North Star. The lack of decisions to be made on the course make it really easy.

I don't think it's putting area that bothers me so much about Northstar. I actually think the putting area's are good besides maybe one hole (8). I just don't think the course is technical enough to test true skill. As you stated earlier, it favors overhand shots most of the time. It's definitely a course that could use some mando's and some ob line to make it on par with the difficulty of the other two courses.

With that being said, I don't care what courses we play. I just want to play damn it!

[Kris C]

The Farragut Fundraiser at Cherry Hill was a huge success! Special thanks to Jack and Scott Wardian for all of their help, and Ben Squires and his crew for moving all the baskets in between rounds! :yay: With only 20 registered players, we raised a little over $400 for the Farragut Open!!! :trophy: Here are the winners:
Open - Ben Squires
ADV - Josh Fish
INT - Shane Wellner
Women's INT - Carrie Wardian
Ace Pot - Cole Swanson $51

[ScottW]

So lets see, with 3 cash-only sponsors so far we have $900 added cash not counting the cash/schwag total that Rapid Fire will be kicking in and the shirt guy (Big Webbed Feet.com) both totaling over $250 worth of cash & stuff. Super badass! Nice work Kris and all who supported his efforts. Nice to see the little ol' NIDGC doing some nice work to improve a local tourney payout for everyone else.

I do like the idea of playing NS even though I know many don't like it. It still has some quality holes, is a decent course, and as of now DBD is just the one course. I am guessing it will stay that way and it will be for the best. Everyone will have to play the same stuff and deal with it all. I think if certain players have ideas for different layouts then they should use them for other events. I think for the true Farragut Open it should be all 3 courses in some way being used.

[Yoduh]

Nice Job on the fundraising guys!! I would have came but the arthritis on my throwing pinky flared up for no reason yesterday and I need to get the swelling down and get back to practicing for worlds.

DBD will be chalked full of alternates before the event. It's really a shame that you seem to doubt whether or not it will happen considering I have been making it happen since the word go and I personally told you that it will indeed happen. Also strange is your assertion that it would only work well for another event. Do you not enjoy the quality of course that I have already designed? Am I not capable of providing a well thought out challenge for our golfers? Now you and I both know the answers to these questions but my guess is you are making the decision that is probably not trying to piss the most golfers off. We also both know that everybody is going to play either way. The most important goal as a tournament course facilitator is to provide a course(s) that will crown the best golfer of the weekend.
For west side golfers reading this our closest comparison here to your courses would be Seatac (with 15 trees removed) vs. Northpark(with shorter holes but on a much bigger property with no ceiling shots).

Here is a list of the quality holes on Northstar. Hole 1 Hole 3 (sucks to be lefty) Hole 5(cut down one tree) hole 6 (teepad needs to be squared to the fairway,sucks to be a lefty) hole 17(sucks to be a lefty). Those holes to me provide the most scoring swing and shot execution. The greens are fair (maybe not 5). Generally the shots are executable and don't allow a cheesy thumber to get a birdie(except 5). Hole 2 is super easy and 4is not far behind! This course in general is brutal on leftys. Holes 7 (sucks to be a lefty) 8 9 all fall into ridiculousy (just made that word up) hard to 2 and a dumb four is possible. The idea is to throw a smart (easy drive) make an up shot and stay outta trouble. Hole 10 is almost a good hole but a thumber makes it soooooo easy that everybody has to work to get a bird and they get a drop in 2. Hole 11 is just weird 180 foot shot as is 16. Hole 12 is easy(leftys have to work).. When I think of this course holes 11-16 just kind of blend together(with another sucks to be lefty hole in there). Nothing special at all. Mostly teeshots (upshots) that require some luck. Hole 18 is a must bird and very righty friendly..
Can't say I'd be up there playing Wreck or DBD and would be longing to go play NorthStar. It would not be the same without North because we wouldn't be playing a birdie or die luck course.
That being said I am still doing my part to help out. I will be reserving the camp ground for golfers and camping will be available for $5 a person per night. I have a line on kegs that we will hopefully have in the camp ground. We will have music and a big bonfire with tons of DBD campfire wood! I also have a meeting with a caterer to possibly get dinner served on Saturday night. I will keep you posted on the fun part as we get closer.

[ScottW]

All valid points Jeremy and I do like the work done to make DBD what it is today and look forward to seeing what it can be. That said I still like NorthStar personally. Plus, keep in mind that I have no say in layout that is ultimately up to Jack so your case is best plead to him and I do think it is safe to say that he will choose the format that will piss off the fewest players. The fewer players you piss off the more you make happy.

[Yoduh]

I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.

[General Scales]

I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.

I am playing advanced and can tell you that I don't mind getting schooled twice by DBD. I do mind a tournament full of pissy players as it doesn't seem to build that wonderful tournament atmosphere that keeps us coming back. As I have stated previous, I will play whatever. Hell, if the nine hole was there, I'd even play that for a tournament round.

[Yoduh]

oh, c'mon now. A tournament full of pissy players at Farragut? I've played every Farragut open since 2000 and I'm here to tell ya right now even if we played DBD 3 times it wouldn't happen!

[ScottW]

Now now, lets not make generalizations and assumptions about all Advanced players. I will be playing Advanced (though whether or not I should is a better argument left for another day:o) and I would have no problem getting schooled, spanked, demoralized, humiliated, embarrassed, beat down, or however else you want to describe it by DBD twice. Hell, I'd play it three or four times if that was the format that Jack decided on. I understand why many of the Pros wouldn't want to play NorthStar as it doesn't fit their game or their likes as well as the others. My thoughts are if NS is best played with thumbers instead of controlled backhand or forehand shots then get better at throwing a thumber then everyone else and if you won't do it then I hope you're real good at locating your other shots. I won't do the thumber trick not because I think it is a weak cheater shot but because I hate throwing them and think I become a better player by throwing other shots. That said, I know sometimes thumbers are just necessary so I use them on occasion. I don't have a problem if the tournament overall forces players to use a wide range of shot selections (even the dreaded overhand) because players should have them all incorporated into their game. That's why I dabble with throwing lefty backhand because I think in the long run it will make me more competitive and will make me a better player - and because I hate throwing righty sidearm. You gotta have the tricks and use them all reasonably well and sometimes that might give lesser skilled players a higher likelihood of having a competing score with you. Again, just my 2 cents.

[Yoduh]

I throw thumbers 300 feet and tommy's 280 but I think they are WEAK!!! There is little to no skill involved. Most people either can or can't I remember the first time I threw one it traveled 300 feet. It didn't take the exact flight I had planned but I adjusted and the next one went exactly where I wanted it. I wish after throwing 2 backhands I would reach max D.. NOT
It does make a lot of sense that tournament hardened and TD extrordanaire Jack makes the decisions about we the unknowing players play..:whistler:

[mine all mine]

My thoughts are if NS is best played with thumbers instead of controlled backhand or forehand shots then get better at throwing a thumber then everyone else and if you won't do it then I hope you're real good at locating your other shots. I won't do the thumber trick not because I think it is a weak cheater shot but because I hate throwing them and think I become a better player by throwing other shots. That said, I know sometimes thumbers are just necessary so I use them on occasion. I don't have a problem if the tournament overall forces players to use a wide range of shot selections (even the dreaded overhand) because players should have them all incorporated into their game.

I don't throw thumbers because they HURT! All overhand shots hurt to throw, so why should a secondary shot be forced to be made off the tee? A hole should not be designed so the best shot is one that doesn't require a ton of skill, but merely rotator cuff strength. That is not a well designed hole. I have run tournaments in the past where I used height mandos to restrict the overhand shots off the tee because the more skilled shot is the one necessary to navigate the middle of the fairway.

Just sayin :chug:

[General Scales]

Now there is a certain amount of risk reward to the thumber/tomahawk. If you use the two meter rule, the chance of taking a stroke by trying to throw a thumber into or over the tree line goes up exponentially. I've lost more discs in those evilly thick tree's at Farragut from overhands than I have from any other shot selection. One more thing, I doubt anybody would tell Brian Schweberger that his thumber doesn't take skill. He can throw every kind of shot with a thumber. That is skill.

Now that I have gone that route, I don't throw but a few overhands a round. Not that I can't and not that I don't have a killer thumber. It's more along the lines of I'd like to continue playing this game as I get older instead of remembering the times I played till I tore my shoulder apart from throwing overhands.

I still think the best way to go about this whole situation is to sit down with Jack and the players and decide what would be the best and most challenging situation. I know that if you had some ob rope and some mando's in certain area's, you'd definitely see some score variation. Something to think about.

[Yoduh]

I have heard him say that it takes no skill at worlds in a practice round in KC.
There is one mando that we added to hole 7 to drop thumbers but that is the only hole possible. I don't see ob rope making thumbers less likely. They are MORE precise so it wouldn't hurt a thumber.

[Yoduh]

The only somewhat tough thumber throw is a thumber roller which I ca do with pretty good accuracy

[ScottW]

It does make a lot of sense that tournament hardened and TD extrordanaire Jack makes the decisions about we the unknowing players play..:whistler:

Ahhh yes, a snide remark will surely help you win your case:yawn: Another touch of class from Jeremy Thornton!:whistler: Obviously the best decision for any TD would be to step aside and just ask the Open players what they want to do, then do that while still having to take the brunt of the players gripes about other tourney complications. Perhaps the only way Jeremy will be happy is if TD extraordinaire Jeremy runs an event, then you can make all of your decisions based on what you think the Open players will like most. That will surely work well. It's just like with anything else, we're just trying to run a fun event that makes the most happy and makes the most players want to return.

Anyway, digressing, I do think that some added difficulty with mandos and/or OB could help alleviate some of the overhand issues, especially on NorthStar. It's too bad not everyone can just be happy to be playing in a tournament and not have to worry about ALL the hassles of running it.

[LJ Jubner]

Ahhh yes, a snide remark will surely help you win your case:yawn: Another touch of class from Jeremy Thornton!:whistler: Obviously the best decision for any TD would be to step aside and just ask the Open players what they want to do, then do that while still having to take the brunt of the players gripes about other tourney complications. Perhaps the only way Jeremy will be happy is if TD extraordinaire Jeremy runs an event, then you can make all of your decisions based on what you think the Open players will like most. That will surely work well. It's just like with anything else, we're just trying to run a fun event that makes the most happy and makes the most players want to return.

Anyway, digressing, I do think that some added difficulty with mandos and/or OB could help alleviate some of the overhand issues, especially on NorthStar. It's too bad not everyone can just be happy to be playing in a tournament and not have to worry about ALL the hassles of running it.


Yoduh snide comments are what keeps you from being welcome.

You have been weighed, measured and found wanting, AGAIN!

[Yoduh]

You really think that there would be a brunt of gripes over playing DBD twice? How is asking the Open players what they want steping aside? Don't most of the advanced players want to be an open player sooner or later? Don't most golfers want to get better. A harder course does make you better, and it's the very end of the season so most players should be at the top of their game. This tournament will decide the best players in our series so why not have them play a course that is A) a fair test of golf with tons of challenge or B) a somewhat lucky and overhand dominated course, but might be more fun, if you consider fun, to be whatever's easier.
I think that it doesn't make sense to have the person with the least experience make the decision's so shoot me. I should not have used sarcasm to deliver my point. Lots of people are thinking it, and only one person says it. Happens all the time.
Ams should design courses and pro's should just be happy cause we all are so spoiled.. I know, snide again :wink2:
Jub is awesome! I love you man
On a more serious note. Jack does an excellent job of running tournaments. His events have continually started and ran seemlesly. I know that when I come to your guys events that I will have fun! Your whole family does a lot of organizing for this big event and for the NIDGA and I am always thankful for your efforts! I do apologize for bringing some negativity with me.
I am volunteering efforts, and trying to bring a ton of energy to help grow a course and a legend that is Farragut disc golf. Events like this can really motivate the troops to jump in and do some quality long lasting work that will really benefit our whole community. It is going to turn into a place that people know about, and want to go, into a place that people will have to go.
You guys make the decision and I will do what I can to help. I will be making tweeks on a few holes throughout the complex to help the golfability of the holes that are a little over grown.

[Yoduh]

Hole 12 on the Northstar needs a mando on the tree's right off the teepad to the left. That would stop the easy over the top thumber. 17 could use a mando to the right on the first left tree 70 feet down. Don't know if you could put one on 3.. you could but then I really feel bad for lefty's but what an easy overhand.. Hole 5 and 10 need one but there is no where to put it. My discs almost never get caught in trees when throwing an over hand because I throw them hard but back hands and sidearms get caught much more frequently. I don't really like the 2 meter rule except on desert courses where there is a shortage of trees..

[MTChristian]

DBD does not favor any one type of shot. It rewards good shots and punishes bad shots, and success can be had with a huge number of different shots, as long as they are well-executed. It has multiple two-or-three-shot, links-style holes. Even Blue Mtn. is pretty much a par 3 course and can't compete.

The Wreckreator is a good course for a par-3 course, somewhere in between a tournament course and a recreational course, and suitable for use in a tournament to provide some variety. I can understand wanting to include this course in a two-day tournament, where twice-through the "big" course in one day is less preferable for other reasons besides variety as well...time constraints, overkill effort-wise to force people to go twice through DBD, etc. If the Farragut Open was one notch bigger--say, an A-Tier--there'd be a good argument to scrap the Wreckreator AND the North Star, and to go with some configuration of SBD and DBD for all rounds. It's not like the DBD is all that strenuous; it's flat and is not a par 68 or anything.

The Northstar, on the other hand, is a recreational course, not a tournament course, for open players. Plain and simple. The length and high-percentage shot selections are not appropriate for serious tournament play, besides casual, local-fundraiser type tournaments. It hugely favors certain types of shots (overhands) and is thus poorly designed, IMO, from a competitive standpoint. And I frankly agree that ability to throw good, 300' overhands is 5% skill and 95% rotator cuff strength. Lest you think I have sour grapes because the DBD gives me some advantage while the NS evens things out, the Northstar has always only HELPED me out, score-wise--but any course you can shoot a 42 on, throwing 14 thumbers off the tee, is a recreational course. http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/13490/Open
I sure would like to play a Superclass event on the North Star, though!

So, in sum, my opinion is that for open players, at least, it would be a really questionable decision to use the north star course in Farragut's big annual tournament. There is no way that any added OB or anything like that would change the overall character of the course. Kind of like how with Zoo Town, we don't use the white tees anymore because if people are coming to play the course once a year, they deserve to play the best the area has to offer, and it is cutting that in HALF to add the white tees in a subtract a blue tees round. Plus, there's no concern over forcing am or age-protected divisions to play a bunch of DBD, if they don't want to--NS is still available and could be used for lower-rated divisions, as the PDGA suggests (match course SSA to avg ratings of div. playing it, as a general rule...thus "blue level courses," "gold level courses," etc...http://www.pdga.com/course-design-validation) So, easy to avoid concerns over players unhappy about being forced through the tough course twice...they won't be. I would seriously doubt that any open players would be unhappy about playing DBD twice...it's the main attraction!

That said, I will be happy to make the trek over to play the DBD even if it is only once, and if it is just impossible logistically, then I do support favoring the needs of ams over pros in order to grow the sport. Obviously Farragut is a glorious location and that is a huge draw as well. But I certainly wouldn't be driving 6 hours to play the Wreckreator and the North Star, even with the lakeside view. I personally don't think there's a better permanent course for tournament golf in WA, ID, or MT than the DBD. Here's hoping.

[General Scales]

DBD does not favor any one type of shot. It rewards good shots and punishes bad shots, and success can be had with a huge number of different shots, as long as they are well-executed. It has multiple two-or-three-shot, links-style holes. Even Blue Mtn. is pretty much a par 3 course and can't compete.

The Wreckreator is a good course for a par-3 course, somewhere in between a tournament course and a recreational course, and suitable for use in a tournament to provide some variety. I can understand wanting to include this course in a two-day tournament, where twice-through the "big" course in one day is less preferable for other reasons besides variety as well...time constraints, overkill effort-wise to force people to go twice through DBD, etc. If the Farragut Open was one notch bigger--say, an A-Tier--there'd be a good argument to scrap the Wreckreator AND the North Star, and to go with some configuration of SBD and DBD for all rounds. It's not like the DBD is all that strenuous; it's flat and is not a par 68 or anything.

The Northstar, on the other hand, is a recreational course, not a tournament course, for open players. Plain and simple. The length and high-percentage shot selections are not appropriate for serious tournament play, besides casual, local-fundraiser type tournaments. It hugely favors certain types of shots (overhands) and is thus poorly designed, IMO, from a competitive standpoint. And I frankly agree that ability to throw good, 300' overhands is 5% skill and 95% rotator cuff strength. Lest you think I have sour grapes because the DBD gives me some advantage while the NS evens things out, the Northstar has always only HELPED me out, score-wise--but any course you can shoot a 42 on, throwing 14 thumbers off the tee, is a recreational course. http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/13490/Open
I sure would like to play a Superclass event on the North Star, though!

So, in sum, my opinion is that for open players, at least, it would be a really questionable decision to use the north star course in Farragut's big annual tournament. There is no way that any added OB or anything like that would change the overall character of the course. Kind of like how with Zoo Town, we don't use the white tees anymore because if people are coming to play the course once a year, they deserve to play the best the area has to offer, and it is cutting that in HALF to add the white tees in a subtract a blue tees round. Plus, there's no concern over forcing am or age-protected divisions to play a bunch of DBD, if they don't want to--NS is still available and could be used for lower-rated divisions, as the PDGA suggests (match course SSA to avg ratings of div. playing it, as a general rule...thus "blue level courses," "gold level courses," etc...http://www.pdga.com/course-design-validation) So, easy to avoid concerns over players unhappy about being forced through the tough course twice...they won't be. I would seriously doubt that any open players would be unhappy about playing DBD twice...it's the main attraction!

That said, I will be happy to make the trek over to play the DBD even if it is only once, and if it is just impossible logistically, then I do support favoring the needs of ams over pros in order to grow the sport. Obviously Farragut is a glorious location and that is a huge draw as well. But I certainly wouldn't be driving 6 hours to play the Wreckreator and the North Star, even with the lakeside view. I personally don't think there's a better permanent course for tournament golf in WA, ID, or MT than the DBD. Here's hoping.

I can't argue with this. I personally would love to play DBD all weekend long and leave the other courses out of the mix. I also don't mind playing any of the courses either as anytime at Farragut is a good time. I just want to play damn it! Perhaps we could institute a no overhand rule on Northstar!

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

That would cause some of this type of face from player's I'd think. :shocked:

[Kris C]

I throw quite a few tommy's and thumbers on NS, and my scores are in the high 50's. My bro-in-law throws absolutely NO overhands at all, and he always scores in the high 50's. He also is a RHFH. It's all about disc selection and how to throw.

[ScottW]

Jeremy, your last two posts were so much more well stated and well worded, you plead your case much better - without being snide. Christian, well stated! Good comparison to Blue Mountain white vs. blue tees. I do know of at least one Open player Ben Squires (as he stated in an earlier post) who would like to play all 3 - I don't think you can write him off either as he will probably be very competitive during the tourney, he's a solid player. I think everyone has valid points and even though Jack probably will have the final say since he is TD (extraordinaire:wink2:) it is also being sponsored in LARGE part by the NIDGC, so we will continue to gather local sentiment and otherwise and take all comments and ideas into consideration. Jeremy, keep us informed on the additions to SBD as it transforms into the DBD to which you speak of.

[Yoduh]

What disc do you throw for thumbers? How good are you at putting? Christian and I have been playing a combined 20 plus years here. I've played 275 courses in 26 states so its not like we are trying to make this up. Been to the World championships 5 times and played 15 plus tournaments for the last 10 years. The facts that we are stating are just that. I wish the NorthStar was tournament worthy. I want 3or 4, even 5 tournament worthy courses up there!!:cheers:

[General Scales]

I throw quite a few tommy's and thumbers on NS, and my scores are in the high 50's. My bro-in-law throws absolutely NO overhands at all, and he always scores in the high 50's. He also is a RHFH. It's all about disc selection and how to throw.

Depending on how many beers I've had depends on my score. 0-2 beers, 49-54 with no overhands. 3-6 beers, 54-59 without overhands. 7 + beers and I forget the score.

I've never actually played Northstar using overhands primarily. Maybe I should...

[Yoduh]

Jeremy, your last two posts were so much more well stated and well worded, you plead your case much better - without being snide. Christian, well stated! Good comparison to Blue Mountain white vs. blue tees. I do know of at least one Open player Ben Squires (as he stated in an earlier post) who would like to play all 3 - I don't think you can write him off either as he will probably be very competitive during the tourney, he's a solid player. I think everyone has valid points and even though Jack probably will have the final say since he is TD (extraordinaire:wink2:) it is also being sponsored in LARGE part by the NIDGC, so we will continue to gather local sentiment and otherwise and take all comments and ideas into consideration. Jeremy, keep us informed on the additions to SBD as it transforms into the DBD to which you speak of.

I know Tom Stephens said he wants to play all three but he throws 400' thumbers. He said he throws thumbers on 7-9 of the holes depending on the wind. Wayne and Big Mike and Tim V. said they'd rather play two on the DBD. It would suck to shoot 54 on DBD and 50 on Wreckreator and 50 on North Star and lose to somebody who shot 42 on North Star and shot 58 on DBD and 53 on Wreck. North Star allows for less skilled golfers to shoot well.

[mine all mine]

Tom's thumbers are huge! that being said, I just want to play the best possible layout that will crown a worthy winner. It is sounding like North Star may not be the best course for the open division to play. If we do play it I will be sure to score around 45 so I don't get left behind...not saying I will, but I will give her hell!

[General Scales]

Every time I see Tom throw a thumber, the 6 million dollar man noise goes through my head:laughing:.

I'm going to Farragut Saturday to try out this overhand theory on Northstar. I have a sneaking suspicion that I will shoot my best round...then promptly ice my shoulder and eat a handful of Excedrin back and body.

[Yoduh]

Stretch before.. Think of a baseball player that throws for 15 minutes before they throw hard once. I usually hold a disc with the hammer grip and pretend to throw 20 plus times before I throw a thumber. Think 10% 15% 20% on each practice non throw. Stretch good right after you hit 70-80%, I usually stay in that range for 5-10 throws. Hurt your roatator cuff and your out a month minimum, last time I did mine it was 7 weeks of lefty golf.

[General Scales]

It's not that I don't properly stretch before hand or go and throw giant bombing thumbers immediately when getting to the course. It's an old mountain bike injury that causes my shoulder to laterally separate when making that motion. If I slow motioned a video focused directly on my shoulder when throwing any overhand, you can actually see my shoulder separate and go back to normal. Backhand and forehand don't cause as much stress simply because there is much more follow through with the body, effectively absorbing more of the stress.

Still going to try it out. Perhaps that will be what I need to drop my scores in the mid to high 40's.

[Yoduh]

Oh I C. I wouldn't practice.. It's not like you have to practice thumbers.. I don't, I just know how to cause I can throwem. They are unbulleivably simple :drool:

[TreeLove]

Stretch before.. Think of a baseball player that throws for 15 minutes before they throw hard once. I usually hold a disc with the hammer grip and pretend to throw 20 plus times before I throw a thumber. Think 10% 15% 20% on each practice non throw. Stretch good right after you hit 70-80%, I usually stay in that range for 5-10 throws. Hurt your roatator cuff and your out a month minimum, last time I did mine it was 7 weeks of lefty golf.

Last time I threw a too-big thumber without being fully stretched out, it was SIX MONTHS of lefty golf, and a painful recovery from the shoulder tendonitis. And to this day I have lost about 75 feet off my overhands. Take heed.

[ScottW]

Yes, go throw many thumbers! Then go see Dr. McDonald at NWOS and tell him that I sent you and thanks for sponsoring the tournament:biggrin2:

[General Scales]

Yes, go throw many thumbers! Then go see Dr. McDonald at NWOS and tell him that I sent you and thanks for sponsoring the tournament:biggrin2:

Yeah, that sounds like the best plan. You know, by time the tournament rolls around, he will of had 70 plus plugs for him on this forum alone :laughing:

[ScottW]

What disc do you throw for thumbers? How good are you at putting? Christian and I have been playing a combined 20 plus years here. I've played 275 courses in 26 states so its not like we are trying to make this up. Been to the World championships 5 times and played 15 plus tournaments for the last 10 years.

Ahhhh...the disc golf resume, very nice! Let's see, I'll answer in order 1)Whatever disc is appropriate for the given situation, thumber D may max out for me at 300 but I would say a more realistic average would be 250-275 2)Not very good because I don't practice very often 3) not an answer to a question but regardless - combined the 3 of us have 28+ years of playing experience. I stopped keeping track of courses played a long time ago because frankly I have better things to keep track of, but I can say not as many as you. Played zero World Championships and tourneys have been on the decline over the past few years. Also my desire to run tourney has been declining due to lack of player appreciation - all moot points, I'm just saying.

I still think there is very good conversation here and though I stated earlier that I think all 3 courses should be played there have been some very good points made to the contrary and am starting to be swayed to the other side of the fence. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, perhaps Jack will just decide to play all 3 rounds on NorthStar:laughing: Hate to see what would happen then:waaah:

[Yoduh]

Those thumber questions were really for Kris C cause he said he throws all thumbers and I thought I might be able to pint him towards a better disc to throw his shoulder out with.. If your gonna go out, go with a bang! The resume is basically posted because alot of people that never get to leave their home courses and see what goes on in the world of big time disc golf could not understand why somebody would not want to play a particular course. They like them all and don't see how the percentages play out. They just know that they are fun. I still play North Star about every third time I go out because it is fun. It's just not a legit tourney course.

[Yoduh]

Scott, I've said before and I'll say it again, YOU ARE APPRECIATED!!

[Kris C]

Normally I throw a boss for all overhands, and not all my tee-shots on NS are overhands. Holes 2, 11, 13, 14, 17, and 18. I'm a RHFH so most of my overhands aren't thumbers. As for throwing a 400ft thumber, I don't think that's an issue because there is only 1 (I think) hole over 400, #8. And that fairway is open enough to throw whatever you like.
As for my "resume", I've been playing steadily for 2 yrs, (I played for a few years about 12 years ago) and I've been to around 12 courses, and yes, I liked them all. Except Bluegrass.

[Stimpi]

I suppose the Open players hate letting a one-shot guy get an advantage on a course, but that's why we play different courses. Northstar may be a pitch and putt for some people, but I've seen events lost due to poor scores on that course. I've played a bunch of courses all over the country, and some are definitely better and more challenging than others, but I love the variety as much, or more, than just playing for the challenge or the win.
If you want lessons on how to cater to Open Players, talk to Timmy Gill in Minnesota. That's pretty much all he wants at his events, and isn't afraid to tell you so, but this is North Idaho, and the Amateur and Age-Protected Divisions usually outnumber the Open Division, and typically the events in this area are aimed at getting as many players as possible to have a great time, whether they are Juniors or Seasoned Pros.
This isn't the USDGC, where every hole needs to be as challenging as possible. It's a local B tier. Let's have some fun!

[Yoduh]

Kris C, You will get more "D" out of a 150 flick or a firebird. Probably 20-40 feet. Hole 5 is an excellent overhand but you have to be able to throw 340 to get it.
Stimp, nobody said the juniors and the age protected guys wouldn't play all 3. We have been talking about the A pool with Open and advanced players only. Not saying the tournament is all about a win, saying that it should attempt to accurately measure a golfer. I've had some bad scores on North Star (-3ish) and usually its because I've gotten several bad kicks and/or been left 20 feet from the pin without a prayer.:puke:

[Yoduh]

Kris, hole 10 is another 325 foot hole where a thumber is super handy on a very tough birdie, unless you have a big thumb. Thats 9 overhands that are pretty easy, being somebody with a big thumber.
You may see golfers not shoot that well on that course that are ordinarily good golfers but does that mean that the course became fair and challenging all of the sudden? You will not see a thumber guy shoot bad on that course. Not in the Open division.

[Yoduh]

If a course had 9 righty hyzers would it be considered a fair test of a golfer?:cop:

[Kris C]

@ Yodah. I appreciate the advice, I actually have a 150 Flick that I use for tailwind drives, but I don't ever throw a thumber or tommy for distance, only to get a great lie. Hole 11 is a perfect example. Instead of trying to thread through the trees or a high forehand shot that will probably skip away, I throw a thumber that lands right next to the basket. I've never tried an overhand on 5 or 10. 5 is an easy (for me anyways) forehand shot down the left side of the fairway that fades back to the bottom of the hill just to the right of the single tree in front of the basket. Hole 10 I usually forehand my buzzz right at the basket

The current debate is irrelevant to me as I will be playing INT., but IMHO, I think even for the A pool, the NS is a great test of ones upshot abilities. Being able to judge when you might get a bad kick and allowing for it, or working on landing somewhere that isn't blocked by trees.

And a course with 9 righty hyzers would be fair if it had 9 lefty hyzers as well.:whistler:

[jshrack]

Oh I C. I wouldn't practice.. It's not like you have to practice thumbers.. I don't, I just know how to cause I can throwem. They are unbulleivably simple :drool:

This is like telling a basketball player that running layup drills isn't worth the practice time...

Hell, they are incredibly easy (if you have been playing for years) and not everyone will need them since there are plenty of other shot options... but having the confidence to hit one from an uncomfortable position, when the win is on the line, that doesn't come from skipping the shot during practice.

[ScottW]

The resume is basically posted because alot of people that never get to leave their home courses and see what goes on in the world of big time disc golf could not understand why somebody would not want to play a particular course. They like them all and don't see how the percentages play out. They just know that they are fun. I still play North Star about every third time I go out because it is fun. It's just not a legit tourney course.

That might be one of the best points anybody has made so far and I completely agree. Hmmmm....decisions decision!

[Yoduh]

This is like telling a basketball player that running layup drills isn't worth the practice time...

Hell, they are incredibly easy (if you have been playing for years) and not everyone will need them since there are plenty of other shot options... but having the confidence to hit one from an uncomfortable position, when the win is on the line, that doesn't come from skipping the shot during practice.

Pressure is what people feel when they focus on whats around them. Develop a good pre shot routine and realize that you can only do your best on every shot. I have won 6 pdga playoffs lost 1. The longest was 9 holes that I roped i 460 drive at Steilly through the grove and hit a 30 footer to seal it. If I could pick my highest % to go against somebody in a playoff it would be a thumber. I can hit a mail slot from one knee at 100 feet. THEY ARE SO EASY! Unless you don' have a rotator cuff:yawn:

[jshrack]

Well... we took an adventure out to Farragut today.
We played Northstar then followed it up with DBD/AWOL.

Northstar has some funky holes but was a TON of fun to play.
Lots of lines and multiple routes on many holes...
so many different shots off the tee played it was fun to just watch what would come out next.
We had 2 righties and 2 lefties, I would have to say the righties had the advantage on this course.

Then we switched over to DBD/AWOL and our mood as a group kinda changed.
You step up to a teepad and everyone is gonna shoot basically the same route on every hole.
I felt like I forced a bunch of my tee shots simply because there were far fewer choices for shot selection... and it wasn't an enjoyable process.
I played pretty well on both courses, 53 on NS and 66 on DBD... I had a blast on NS and yet felt like I was playing a game full of long forced shots on DBD.
And with all that length there are so few possibilities for rollers, it made me sad.

Anyway, I am not a PRO nor am I likely to be in town for Farragut this year... so my two cents are worth even less.
Just to add to the controversy though; I think 2 rounds of DBD would be remarkably draining for a tourney, while a single round of each course would encompass an enjoyable and long weekend of golf.

[Yoduh]

Rollers? Where in the Inland Northwest can you throw rollers? I can think of a handful of holes and only one in the whole spokane area. Fourmounds has a ton of bomber super long holes, never thought once that I wish I could throw a roller.. although it would be nice Gordo if your listening

The difference you described is the difference between a real challenge (Seatac) and a putt putt thumber topia. One course is serious and the other isn't. I feel like DBD single black diamond is a course that takes it's foot off of your head after you finish hole 18. That being said it is fair and it DOES not reward distance, it does reward accuracy. Take Yoduhs Yawn for instance. I've seen a large number of golfers take out their driver for this 600 foot hole and throw something that hits the middle trees or hyzers out. They get beat to snot trying to get up the left side of the fairway.. The Shot.. I throw a Roc or a putter from the tee that will fly like a left hander threw it and get to the landing area.. Find your next route (there are several) throw a beat firebird or a newish teebird into the base of the hill, hit my putt and move on.. Occasionally I will land short but still be in the middle. When this happens there is a huge righty hyzer way over the tops of the trees, that is my savior for a not quite quality drive but it's a little scary. This course was specifically built so that if a golfer could throw 330 feet, they could compete with ANYONE!
I throw a leopard on hole 1 off the tee to the landing area on the right and short. Throw a good up and get my 3 on this par 4. I've seen Ed Doppelmeyer park that hole for a 2, and I've seen him try and park it and take a 5.The course is supposed to teach you how to use control drivers and shot selection. We have such a large assortment of grip it and rip it holes in this area where even a bad drive leads to a very manageable 3. The course will repeatedly beat you down unless you learn how to control your emotions and your discs..:D I guarantee you that if you played that course as often as you played your regular course you would get better faster. It makes you get so comfortable hitting lines that when you go back to your regular course the tight fairway are wide open. If you like to throw teebirds, eagles and leopards and Rocs than you will do well on this course as long as you identify where the landing areas are and you execute. Also when you find your self in trouble it is not time to be a hero very often.. Take your medicine and get back to the fairway. Like real golf. That being said I've thrown and seen some amazing upshots to get out of trouble on this course. My best score is a 54 in tourney and 53 in casual, the course record is 53 by Christian Dietrich. I know I could shoot a 48 on that course. With the SSA being over 57 a 48 would be a killer rating!
This course will get harder..:cool2: Can't wait to finish that and to get into the next one:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

[jshrack]

Rollers? Where in the Inland Northwest can you throw rollers? I can think of a handful of holes and only one in the whole spokane area. Fourmounds has a ton of bomber super long holes, never thought once that I wish I could throw a roller.. although it would be nice Gordo if your listening

The difference you described is the difference between a real challenge (Seatac) and a putt putt thumber topia. One course is serious and the other isn't. I feel like DBD single black diamond is a course that takes it's foot off of your head after you finish hole 18. That being said it is fair and it DOES not reward distance, it does reward accuracy. Take Yoduhs Yawn for instance. I've seen a large number of golfers take out their driver for this 600 foot hole and throw something that hits the middle trees or hyzers out. They get beat to snot trying to get up the left side of the fairway.. The Shot.. I throw a Roc or a putter from the tee that will fly like a left hander threw it and get to the landing area.. Find your next route (there are several) throw a beat firebird or a newish teebird into the base of the hill, hit my putt and move on.. Occasionally I will land short but still be in the middle. When this happens there is a huge righty hyzer way over the tops of the trees, that is my savior for a not quite quality drive but it's a little scary. This course was specifically built so that if a golfer could throw 330 feet, they could compete with ANYONE!
I throw a leopard on hole 1 off the tee to the landing area on the right and short. Throw a good up and get my 3 on this par 4. I've seen Ed Doppelmeyer park that hole for a 2, and I've seen him try and park it and take a 5.The course is supposed to teach you how to use control drivers and shot selection. We have such a large assortment of grip it and rip it holes in this area where even a bad drive leads to a very manageable 3. The course will repeatedly beat you down unless you learn how to control your emotions and your discs..:D I guarantee you that if you played that course as often as you played your regular course you would get better faster. It makes you get so comfortable hitting lines that when you go back to your regular course the tight fairway are wide open. If you like to throw teebirds, eagles and leopards and Rocs than you will do well on this course as long as you identify where the landing areas are and you execute. Also when you find your self in trouble it is not time to be a hero very often.. Take your medicine and get back to the fairway. Like real golf. That being said I've thrown and seen some amazing upshots to get out of trouble on this course. My best score is a 54 in tourney and 53 in casual, the course record is 53 by Christian Dietrich. I know I could shoot a 48 on that course. With the SSA being over 57 a 48 would be a killer rating!
This course will get harder..:cool2: Can't wait to finish that and to get into the next one:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

Too many holes where "the shot" is the shot you take... with no other shot available. You force people to play the line you enjoy without giving many real options. I sat on at leaset 5 different tees and regretted having to take a particular shot, not because it was the best option...because it was the ONLY option.
Righties and Lefties should rarely be forced on the same line for a long hole... DBD does it CONSISTENTLY.

DBD is designed to keep big arms at a handicap and to destroy non-locals... sounds about right if YOU want a great tourney rating... not the case for a ton of other amazing golfers. Seatac incorporates both accuracy and distance into different parts of the course, with a par 3 system Seatac can seem overwhelming but it never had me straining for a comfortable shot off the tee.

DBD does NOT stack up... hell, if you want a course where you need to hit lines take a page from PIER.
It has trees, it has lines, you can pick your line and if you miss it you might be screwed... not by the huge limbs strewn all over the place, not by the dead snags all round the greens, not because the fairway is overgrown, but because you missed the shot you CHOSE to take.

As for rollers, just because they aren't prevalent around our area doesn't mean a top level course shouldn't have the option in a few places... Roller opportunities are an aspect of disc golf where our local community is sorely deprived. :dancing:

[Yoduh]

That is your opinion and its fine. There are holes that require you to take one route. Many golf holes do this. Don't know if you've been on the east coast before? The west side of the state does a similar thing on quite a few holes. The idea is to learn how to conrtol the whole entire flight path of your disc.. not just hit a gap at 80 feet and than not worry about it. This sort of Control (wizardry) is what truly seperates a golfer. A non local that is a top level pro could easily identify the landing areas of the course and decide which is best for them to play to. I have brought two Innova Sponsored players to play that course and both gave rave reviews. One of them called it the 2nd best course in the entire Northwest next to Milo. The one thing that I can say about the course is that It was designed to play a little tight. Meaning that in 2 to 3 years as the trees grow it will play a little more how it was intended. There are other fairways where more distance will come into play also. Hole 6 and 7 and hole 12 will see major changes adding 100 to 300 feet to each.:shocked::yay:

[Yoduh]

Holes with options off the tee. 1,3, 4,5 6,9,10,14,15,16. # of holes where really good golf shots are required, 18

[jshrack]

Well stated, it is very much my opinion and my preferences in a golf course that dictate my statements.
I prefer having some tough tree lines here and there but I don't enjoy an entire course of them. Seatac is a good example.

I just don't get an much joy out of playing a course where my best drive opportunity is often a mid-range through a dirty gap to a limited landing area... leaving a limited upshot at a sheltered pin.

I am quite aware that my golf experience is limited and it is quite probable my preferences will change as my game improves.
I also take the scenery into account on a course... DBD isn't the prettiest.
I also understand that the level of my game, on that particular day, will also effect my perceptions... good or bad.
There just weren't any holes I stepped up to the teepad and felt excited to see the flight of my disc.

Again, I am not a pro and my input should be regarded accordingly.

[Tek Zeus]

Luck isn't golf in my opinion.

Ever hear of Francis Ouimet?

http://dyn.pga.com/news/publish/usopen/2007/images/ouimet_448x266.jpg

[jshrack]

Holes with options off the tee. 1,3, 4,5 6,9,10,14,15,16. # of holes where really good golf shots are required, 18

That is kinda funny... #18 has always played extremely easy for me.
buzz to dogleg
buzz to the top of the hill if not a little more
putt/approach
clean up if necessary... great birdie opp

Very righty friendly, not extremely exciting :dancing:

(oops, disregard! I mis-read your post)

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I've been reading with interest the multitude of comments here about Farragut. It's fun to see that amount of interest in a tournament that is over two months away yet. I recognize that I have a very limited base of experience from which to make decisions for a tournament, so it is helpful to get perspectives from so many others. After reading all the comments so far, I see several key points surfacing: 1) there may be a preference among Open players to spend more time on DBD and skip Northstar. (more input would be needed to say if that is a majority opinion or not); 2) Many Am players would like to include all 3 courses in their competition; 3) The Park wants us to accommodate casual players who wish to play at the same time the tournament is in progress. After mulling it over, I think I see a creative possibility that would mesh all of these interests nicely. Here it is:
Divide the field into 3 pools - A) Pros only; B) Advance Men only; C) All other Advanced divisions plus Intermediates and Rec Players. Course rotation would be: A Pool - DBD, Wreckreator, DBD; B Pool - Wreckreator, Northstar, DBD; C Pool - Northstar, DBD, Wreckreator. Instead of leaving only one course open at a time for casual players, we would have open holes on two courses all day Saturday, since the Pros and Adv Men would be playing on different courses, thus only partially filling each course. By starting groups on staggered holes, there would be gaps where casual players could jump in on hole #1 in between tournament groups. Then on Sunday, the Pros and Adv Men would both play DBD. Adv men would have a shotgun start at same time Pool C starts; the Pros would have staggered tee times following them. Your thoughts please.....:chinscratch:

[Yoduh]

I've been reading with interest the multitude of comments here about Farragut. It's fun to see that amount of interest in a tournament that is over two months away yet. I recognize that I have a very limited base of experience from which to make decisions for a tournament, so it is helpful to get perspectives from so many others. After reading all the comments so far, I see several key points surfacing: 1) there may be a preference among Open players to spend more time on DBD and skip Northstar. (more input would be needed to say if that is a majority opinion or not); 2) Many Am players would like to include all 3 courses in their competition; 3) The Park wants us to accommodate casual players who wish to play at the same time the tournament is in progress. After mulling it over, I think I see a creative possibility that would mesh all of these interests nicely. Here it is:
Divide the field into 3 pools - A) Pros only; B) Advance Men only; C) All other Advanced divisions plus Intermediates and Rec Players. Course rotation would be: A Pool - DBD, Wreckreator, DBD; B Pool - Wreckreator, Northstar, DBD; C Pool - Northstar, DBD, Wreckreator. Instead of leaving only one course open at a time for casual players, we would have open holes on two courses all day Saturday, since the Pros and Adv Men would be playing on different courses, thus only partially filling each course. By starting groups on staggered holes, there would be gaps where casual players could jump in on hole #1 in between tournament groups. Then on Sunday, the Pros and Adv Men would both play DBD. Adv men would have a shotgun start at same time Pool C starts; the Pros would have staggered tee times following them. Your thoughts please.....:chinscratch:

Seems interesting but I would not want casual golfers playing on the course that I am playing on. They can be loud, discourteous and impatient.. If you ever play a round in the Open division the one thing you learn is patience. The advanced men would have to be given tee times on Sunday. They way you start people is every 10 minutes on hole 1 and hole 10 at the same time. SO the last Advanced group would go at hole 10 at 9:30. The adv men group in the middle starts at hole 1 at 9:30, by 10:10 your done with advanced and starting on Open at 10:20 The same thing is done in the Open as the adv men.If you have 72 players than you have a course that will be completely full for 9 holes of golf and than 2 groups at a time they come off the course.. They should start coming off of the course about 45 minutes after your other pools are done. 8 cards at a time, every 10 minutes. Its way less stressful than a shotgun start! All you need is a starter calling the two groups who are about to tee off. Give a ten minute warning for the next groups and a 2 minute for the groups who are about to tee.
The series points peeps can do all of those points and you can break all ties without a break in the action. Once the open division cards are in the awards for the ams could conceivably begin.. Could do Ams for tourney and than for series, Than the same with the remaining. The work is more steady than all at once and overwhelming. Could help you with it and I have more idea's.

[LJ Jubner]

Here it is:
Divide the field into 3 pools - A) Pros only; B) Advance Men only; C) All other Advanced divisions plus Intermediates and Rec Players. Course rotation would be: A Pool - DBD, Wreckreator, DBD; B Pool - Wreckreator, Northstar, DBD; C Pool - Northstar, DBD, Wreckreator. Instead of leaving only one course open at a time for casual players, we would have open holes on two courses all day Saturday, since the Pros and Adv Men would be playing on different courses, thus only partially filling each course.

Seeing as this is the INWS final:
Wouldn't it be better to wait a little while to see how many sign up for the weekend before proposing pools?

As an ADVANCED age protected player I am getting tired of being stuck in the Int/Rec/Nov pool. I pay full price and get the leftovers. It seems to me that instead of running three courses and having the Casual variable, Why not just have one course open all weekend for just casual players. This can then be publicised and would be much easier to control.

Yoduh, As always you can only see as far as the end of your OWN nose. So far all you are is an idea guy with little to no follow through. A friendly reminder (like the sign says above the door in my GF's J High classroom)"

It's NOT all about you."

[LJ Jubner]

I just looked at the Pre reg and Yoduh is not even signed up yet. Time to put your money where your mouth is!!!!

[Yoduh]

Seeing as this is the INWS final:
Wouldn't it be better to wait a little while to see how many sign up for the weekend before proposing pools?

As an ADVANCED age protected player I am getting tired of being stuck in the Int/Rec/Nov pool. I pay full price and get the leftovers. It seems to me that instead of running three courses and having the Casual variable, Why not just have one course open all weekend for just casual players. This can then be publicised and would be much easier to control.

Yoduh, As always you can only see as far as the end of your OWN nose. So far all you are is an idea guy with little to no follow through. A friendly reminder (like the sign says above the door in my GF's J High classroom)"

It's NOT all about you."

Jub, advanced is not really a very accurate statement of somebody who plays with kneepads and a phanny pack.. Other than building the course I guess I'm just an idea guy.. Got an idea for ya, we should advertise an Open Women's division and when they show up to play lets just give them a players pack and a trophy.. You are so AWESOME!!

[Yoduh]

That division needs to be changed to intermediate geezer division. The only thing Jub is advanced in is age and talking.. well maybe just age, oh and pony tails.. Seriously though I do like the Rat tail..
It's interesting that most people that don't know disc golf (newbies), when they first hear the divisions, they think advanced is better than open, and masters is better than advanced. By that logic we should be doing whatever you say Jub. I'm glad we don't do whatever newbies say.

Now I do agree that it would be the easiest to leave one course open all weekend the logical choice would have to be North Star. 80 to 90% of the regulars up there play that course every time they are out there because it is a very recreational friendly course. I would totally go with this idea(obviously) but there are many people bent on playing the North Star so I don't think that will go over very well. As it is you could quite easily cap your pools with registration, and everybody should get in anyway. At 72 players there could be 36 advanced and 36 Open players.. those would be pretty big fields.. If they did fill you could even throw some 5 some out there if you had to. Yah I know Jub.. I'm just an idea guy:yay::kissflowers:

[LJ Jubner]

Got an idea for ya, we should advertise an Open Women's division and when they show up to play lets just give them a players pack and a trophy!

the words are all there just in the wrong order

I advertised for "$25 a entry fee that all women and age protected Am's would receive a PP and play for trophy/s only" Seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Yoduh]

Leaving the Wreck open would piss off a few regular park visitors and Nobody wants to miss playing that course. Leaving the DBD open would be like standing at hole 1 at Northpark and telling everybody they had to go to Seatac. Except instead of them just leaving mad, they stop by the rangers office and give them an earful. Wouldn't be good for us. Even if you run the event the way I was thinking: A pool: Advanced men, Open: SBD,Wreck, DBD. Everybody else North, DBD, Wreck. There is a chance that while one course is clear in the morning if people show up to play around lunch, they will still be out there when the groups get sent out to play the 2nd round.

[Yoduh]

the words are all there just in the wrong order

I advertised for "$25 a entry fee that all women and age protected Am's would receive a PP and play for trophy/s only" Seems pretty clear cut to me.

I don't know why you had to refund money to Women when they showed up because they had no idea that was your pro women tourney idea.

[jshrack]

Thanks for the awesome concepts Jack!
Way to work at figuring out a draft while trying to accommodate all players.
I am excited to see what you come up with for the tourney!

Jeremy and Jub, get a room.

[Kris C]

Jeremy and Jub, get a room.

Hopefully one without any internet access.

[Yoduh]

Hopefully one without any internet access.

That':jumpspin:s funny!

[Yoduh]

16 17 and 18 are georgeous. The hole back half is pretty.. Peaceful prairie, Mossy madness? Awesome scenery. Is it not pretty because every fairway is defined and because there is an abundance of different types of trees. Something every course in our area lacks? There are 9 different trees on this course. about 7 more than most of our courses.. Fourmounds.. Pines, Downriver.. Pines and dying maple and one group of unique trees by hole 1's basket. High Bridge, Pines. NorthS, pines, Wreck, pines. Did you play the course with your eyes open or were the squinty and red?:angel:

[General Scales]

I say screw playing any of the courses and we make it a safari extravaganza! Or we say screw it and make it a superclass only tournament.

Or, just maybe, we play whatever courses are to be played and live with it? I mean, in the end, does it really matter what courses you play? Shouldn't it be how you play the courses you were presented?

In my not so humble opinion, I would love to see this layout. Wreckreator, DBD, then the front nines including the first 9 or last 9 of DBD to make it a 27 hole final round. That way it's an endurance test and a golf test. The Pool 1 guys play Wreckreator, DBD and the Front 9's including DBD back nine. Pool 2 plays DBD, Wreckreator, Front nines including the front 9 of DBD.

Of course, the only issue with this being that it uses all the courses on the last day.

[Yoduh]

I say screw playing any of the courses and we make it a safari extravaganza! Or we say screw it and make it a superclass only tournament.

Or, just maybe, we play whatever courses are to be played and live with it? I mean, in the end, does it really matter what courses you play? Shouldn't it be how you play the courses you were presented?

In my not so humble opinion, I would love to see this layout. Wreckreator, DBD, then the front nines including the first 9 or last 9 of DBD to make it a 27 hole final round. That way it's an endurance test and a golf test. The Pool 1 guys play Wreckreator, DBD and the Front 9's including DBD back nine. Pool 2 plays DBD, Wreckreator, Front nines including the front 9 of DBD.

Of course, the only issue with this being that it uses all the courses on the last day.

Um.. yeah.. Ritalin?

[Yoduh]

I think we should roll dice and see who wins and than just declare a winner!!

[Kris C]

Here's a crazy idea - Let's just let Jack decide what we will all play. You know, since he's the TD and all...

[Yoduh]

ah C'mon kris.. we already know that's gonna happen. Where's your fun idea? Lets play the courses backwards!!

[J.P.]

I like jacks current plan. I dont know that much about tourneys, but as an AM i like playing every course on a site for a tournament. It can sometimes be frustrating to have multiple courses around you and play the same course multiple times in a crowded setting. I looking forward to a tournament on multiple courses all in walking distance because not many places can do that. Also Ive always wanted to do throw to the inlet on beaver bay as a ctp just an idea if its even a possibility.

[General Scales]

Um.. yeah.. Ritalin?

Naw, Benadryl and Nyquill. Oh yeah, and just the desire to play whatever courses happen to be decided upon.

Also, are there going to be any side pot games? CTP, Long Drive?

[Yoduh]

Camping is gonna be bomb! Cheap too. I know we are going to run some side games their.

[prospect]

I noticed on innova's website that they now have GLOW champ gators as part of their CFR program...

[General Scales]

I noticed on innova's website that they now have GLOW champ gators as part of their CFR program...

I think you may be a little biased on this one :laughing:. I'd like to see some latitude discs in the player's packs...

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Latitude would certainly be interesting in the player packs, but to get custom discs done out of Europe sounds like a daunting task. The good news is, if you are playing Am, you will have some Latitude choices available for your prize vouchers - if you find yourself in the top 45% of your field, that is.:trophy:

[Wobbly Bob]

I've finished calculating the points for the last two tournaments of the Inland North West Series and will post the results on this thread as well as elsewhere.

A lot of people were counting on Flippen Ze Disc to be their last event to use as a qualifier for the INWS. Due to the cancellation of the Flippen, we are lowering the tournaments needed to qualify for the INWS Finals from four events to three events.

The INWS was able to accrue $2500 for the Series Purse. There are 41 competitors that qualified for a piece of this purse.

Those qualified need to know that the points earned at Farragut will be added to their Series Points and no points will be dropped.

The Points are attached below.

[Sean Johnson]

How many events are required now, assuming that I plan on playing the Farragut Open?

[ScottW]

Due to the cancellation of the Flippen, we are lowering the tournaments needed to qualify for the INWS Finals from four events to three events.


:whistler:

[Sean Johnson]

This is about the time where I'd normally make some excuse about tiny text on smartphones. I'll do this instead :slapface:

[ScottW]

:laughing:No worries, thought it was funny. I seem to manage that myself from time to time:biggrin2:

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Looks like the registrations are beginning to pick up. Got 3 more online registrations today. 17 officially registered now. FYI we have gotten some nice sponsorships come in to provide t-shirts for all players, and will include a Tournament disc for ALL players, Pro and not-so-pro :cheerleader:(Am). Got some unique trophies in the works too:trophy:. Now if I can just find some competitors to give them to.......

[General Scales]

What are the tournament discs for this year?

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Arriving any day will be Champion Classic Rocs, Champ Glo Gazelles, Champ Glo Teebirds (+), Champ Vulcans, Champ Eagles, and Echo Star Destroyers.

[General Scales]

Arriving any day will be Champion Classic Rocs, Champ Glo Gazelles, Champ Glo Teebirds (+), Champ Vulcans, Champ Eagles, and Echo Star Destroyers.

Champion Classic Rocs :shocked:? Can I request that as my disc now? :laughing: That's an awesome selection for the tournament. Kudos :cheers:

[organic]

Great choices of discs jack! i cant wait to play

[Kris C]

Dibs on a TeeBird! :biggrin2: I finally got Texas Roadhouse to commit, and they gave a free appetizer for all player packs, plus there will be some dinner for 2 certificates.

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I'd be fine with reserving specific discs for players who have already registered - as a perk of early registration. :rockon: I'll post when the discs are actually here.

[Kris C]

Cool!

[General Scales]

I agree! I've been registered for months. Champ Classic Roc here I come!

[Lyounger]

I'm so bummed I won't be able to attend the Finals since the date was changed.

Bob, do I need to do anything to make sure I'm still considered for the Series even though I cannot attend the Finals?

Thanks,
LKY

[ScottW]

Don't forget the F.O. is coming up quick, only 3 weeks from Saturday and pre-registration is required. I think ALL forms of registration will close the Thursday before and those trying to get in late will have to deal with Wobbly Bob and we all know he ain't lettin' anyone in so plan accordingly, register early, and spread the word.

[Rapid Fire Jack]

After giving it much thought and weighing the input from a variety of players, I've decided to modify the course selection for the Pro divisions and Advanced Men at the Farragut Open. Those divisions will play Double Black Diamond, Wreckreator, Double Black Diamond. The final round will likely also include a few alternate basket locations to change it up. All lower divisions will play one round on each of the three courses. Depending on how the different division registration counts end up, there could be some shifting between A pool and B pool, if B pool exceeds 72 players.
Adding up the sponsorships that we have received thus far, we are able to sweeten the pot quite nicely. Cash sponsorships ae just under $1,500, and merchandise sponsorships are nearly $3,500. There will be player packs for ALL players, courtesy of our generous sponsors :yay:, and plenty of bonus prizes to be given away. Make your plans now.
The Park management was not receptive to the petition from the North Idaho Disc Golf Club to revert back to the Double Black Diamond name for the new course, so they still officially refer to it as A.W.O.L. Since plans were already in place to incorporate the name DBD in this tournament, we are holding onto that name for one more event :pirate:. The custom discs, t-shirts, and trophies all use the Double Black Diamond name:rockon:. I think you'll like the hand made trophies with 2 black diamonds on them. Get your game on, and hope you can take one home. :trophy:

[ScottW]

I think that format will allow those players in the A Pool to have the best chance to play disc golf the way it was meant to be played. It will provide the best challenge for those players who want to be challenged. I know you won't ever make every player happy with all the decisions you make as a TD but I do feel this will be the best way to go despite the grumblings that will inevitably come from some players. I'm getting excited for the 2011 F.O.

[General Scales]

I think that format will allow those players in the A Pool to have the best chance to play disc golf the way it was meant to be played. It will provide the best challenge for those players who want to be challenged. I know you won't ever make every player happy with all the decisions you make as a TD but I do feel this will be the best way to go despite the grumblings that will inevitably come from some players. I'm getting excited for the 2011 F.O.

I applaud the decision and can't wait to tank my rating on dbd. Way to go!

[organic]

Sounds great I cant wait to play!

[ScottW]

I applaud the decision and can't wait to tank my rating on dbd. Way to go!

I'll second that! I think Stuart and I will be duking it out for worst in show for the Adv. Men's division:cheers::trophy:

[General Scales]

I'll second that! I think Stuart and I will be duking it out for worst in show for the Adv. Men's division:cheers::trophy:

No contest. I'm taking those honors :laughing:. I just lost tag 4 for tag 45 at Corbin :cheers:. Moral of the story, don't make stupid bets with your friends.

[Big Red]

it was no stupid bet sir, you just played like crap lol :yay:

[General Scales]

Nope it was stupid. Tired. Drinking and a general lack of care plus not wanting to play for my tag but doing it anyway equals stupid.

Its all good I'll get it back before Farragut. Which reminds me. Any changes to dbd for the tournament.

[Sean Johnson]

Alrighty, I'm in. I wouldn't mind a max weight Classic Roc if possible. Is there any word on which group campsite we will be in?

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Innova order arrived yesterday with Farragut Open discs. Registered players can pre-select their player pack disc if they want to - choose the model, weight and color while selection is best:jumpspin: Call me or email rapidfire3@roadrunner.com. to make arrangements. I'm going out to Farragut tomorrow to check out the alternate pin placements and teepads that are available on DBD, to plan on which ones would be good to use for a second round layout for the Pros. Open to suggestions from anyone who is familiar with the course.

[Kris C]

I picked up my Glow Teebird + today (thanks Jack) and took it out to the field for practice. I love it and it's in the dye now!

[General Scales]

Picked up my Classic Roc last night! Super domey, all max weight. Got me a pink one. Going to Farragut early tomorrow morning to play DBD and Wreckreator. Let the practice begin. I'll be out there by 9:00-9:15 if anybody wishes to meet up.

Thanks again Jack!

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Got a good batch of new registrations today. Up to about 40 now. Couldn't post the newest ones to PDGA yet because their website has been down all day. As I recall last year, the registrations snowballed the last couple weeks, and probably half of the total registrations came in during the last 5 days before the tournament. Makes it a real pain for the TD, but I know a lot of people have to wait to see what their availability is. The good news is I'm getting some good helping hands lined up to assist me at tournament central. :yay:

[General Scales]

So played some of the worst golf I've played at Farragut in a long time on Saturday. Didn't help that I had a RAGING hangover that was crippling me. Note to self, when going to practice for a tournament, do not drink like a fish at a Blues concert the night before. I actually shot better on DBD then I did Wreck. Terrible on my part.

Jack, any word on what will change from the original layout of DBD? I saw people working out there on Saturday but can only assume that was for the other new family friendly course going in. Unless we got another new 18 coming out before winter, which would be sweet!

[Rapid Fire Jack]

At this time we only have two changes, unfortunately. I think it's hole #14 that has two teepads, and hole #15 has an alternate sleeve. Jeremy was trying to get the Park to install 3 more sleeves and clear out decent putting greens around them on 3 other holes, but I haven't gotten any confirmation that they are done. As long as they are set up by Friday the 7th we could still use them. Time will tell. I will only use them if they are permanent sleeves with decent greens.

[General Scales]

Hey Jack, are we going to have any random draw doubles or anything of the sort on Friday?

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Sorry, but I'm using Friday to do final preparations. No one else has come forward offering to help run a doubles on Friday, so at this point it looks like that's a no go:nono:. I think it would be great if someone would jump in and do it:cheerleader:.

[vsong]

Picked up my Champion Vulcan. Thanks Again its awesome!

Im going to Farragut to practice Monday 10/03/2011 morning if anyone wants to meet up. 10am (ish).

[LJ Jubner]

Sorry, but I'm using Friday to do final preparations. No one else has come forward offering to help run a doubles on Friday, so at this point it looks like that's a no go:nono:. I think it would be great if someone would jump in and do it:cheerleader:.

Where is yoda when you actually want him

[prospect]

Jub do you ever just keep your mouth shut and let a thread run smoothly? Quit poking the bear dude, seriously...it's getting old.

[ScottW]

Registrations are starting roll in more quickly now - hard to imagine disc golfers being procrastinators I know. For those of you who make it over early and are looking for some tastey beer the Laughing Dog Brewing Co. in Sandpoint (25 miles north)will be having "Firkin Friday" on October 7th. They call it a special beer at a special price, $3 pints until the keg is gone. Sadly I can't make it :(

On a side note perhaps Yodah is scrambling to get all the alternates in place on DBD that he swore would make DBD-long stand out, and playable, by tourney time. As of yesterday the only holes with alternates are 12 (pin), 13 (tee), and 15 (pin) all of which have been done since before Jeremy made his big plea to play DBD twice stating that it would be a long and short course by then...I'm just saying. Will be fun regardless.

[ScottW]

Jack says check in by 8am, player's meeting at 8:30am, to start 1st round by 9:15am. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

Don't forget, or just remind your friends, that registrations WILL NOT be accepted on Saturday morning - probably won't be taken on Friday for that matter either - so be prepared. Also, we will not delay everyone's start time for players who run late:slapface:. You can call ahead but when it's time to start it's time to start and if you are registered and not there then you'll be taking 7's until it turns hopeless. Do everyone one a favor and just do your part :cheers::trophy:

[General Scales]

So is advanced and open playing double wreck and double on Sunday?

[ScottW]

I am pretty sure that will be the case but don't quote me on that.

[Wobbly Bob]

Below I have attached a list of the competitors that have qualified for the Inland North West Series Finals. Those players that have qualified be sure to stop by and see me at Tournament Central for your Qualifier Award.

This year we have three Iron Man Awards for those players that played in all the Series events.

Those three are;


Melodie "Destroyer Girl" Bailey
Chris "Cody" Miller
John Tomsick


Congratulations to all those competitors that qualified for the Finals.

Only 16 of 43 qualifiers have signed up so far for this tournament.

THERE ARE THREE PAGES IN THE ATTACHMENT. YOU WILL NEED TO RESTORE DOWN TO VIEW THE TABS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FILE.

Page one is the Series Results, page two is the Qualifier List and page three is the Finals Purse.

See you there!

[Yoduh]

I love you Jub.... I wish could I say for sure I could run the doubles (kinda already did that) but I can't. I heard Ben Squires say he was willing to do it, but that's not on my end. As far as finishing all of the modifications are concerned, I doubt all will be done because of this weather. It has made the ground to soft to drive the tractor on without damaging the turf in some spots. 12's alt will not be played is it was misinstalled in the first place.. There will be an alt on 6 very similar to what was played during the dubs. The alt tee on 13 and pin on 14 will be used. As far as the other plans the new park guy is no where near as reliable or as dependable as the last one. He is supposed to call me and let me know what was done by today. Haven't heard so I'm hoping he was hammering away. I let him know this evening via voicemail to let me know asap. Will update as I learn new info..
If you are planning on camping when you pull into the park stop at the Ranger station and let them know that you need a vehicle pass for the group camp for 1 or 2 nights. The fee is $8.37 per night for a vehicle. When you see me in the campground I will require a $5 per person fee per night. Children are free. The weather is going to clear up just in time for this awesome event and it's supposed to stay clear all the way through!!! So looking forward to camping in one of the sweetest places in the country with a bunch of awesome people!

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Late registrations are open online until 8 p.m tonight (Thursday Oct. 6) Pacific time, and at Rapid Fire Disc Golf Store until 7 p.m. We will be filling out scorecards tonight and setting up flights for the first round.
Thanks for the update Jeremy. Keep me posted. We can use whatever changes are playable on Sunday for DBD, but as a reminder - the TD will determine what layout is used. Last time I checked the PDGA website, that was me. lol

[Rapid Fire Jack]

10:00 a.m. John Boyko, Jon Stout, JD comeron, Cody MacPherson, Jared Massie, Tyson Lewis, Dustin Barth
10:15 a.m. Josh Erickson, Bo Brand, Josh Williamson, Todd Zyph, Dusty Cook, Chris Wright, Chris Miller, Tyler Blum
10:30 a.m. Sean Blackwell, Tony Costanzo, Stuart Autrey, Lucas Burgess, Josh Fish, Brandon Green, Darrin Case, Brandon Mokuiki
10:45 a.m. Cole Swanson, JP Russo, Chris Crter, Scott Wardian, Ken Deeds, Tom Walker, Melodie Bailey, Amber Ramirez
11:00 a.m. Brandon Baughman, Jeremy thornton, Derek Fulton, John Munson,
Wayne Miller, David Bodey, Jason Scrivner, Justin McMillan, Ryan Brown
11:15 a.m. Dan Gibbs, Ron thomas, Damien Hoffman, Ben Squires, Dan Donoian :yay:

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Scores are posted at PDGA.com Had 109 registered players, spectacular weather, and things ran quite smoothly. Had to go to a playoff for Men's Pro Open - between two locals, Dan Gibbs and Ben Squires. Ben took top honors.:trophy: I'm sleeping in tomorrow.:nahnah:

[TreeLove]

Stimpi with the INSANE (http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/70351)1045- rated round, WOW!

[mine all mine]

Nice win Ben, wish I was there to battle with you! Maybe next year...

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I thought some of the round ratings looked odd.....talked to a couple players and figured out that by default the unofficial results assume a par 54 on all courses. Until I complete the rest of the TD report and specify to the PDGA that the 2 rounds on Double Black Diamond were par 60, the round ratings will be off, as will the total strokes over/under par. I will get that in as soon as I can, but gotta calculate all kinds of things for the report - deductions for other fees, value of player packs, trophies, and prizes, added cash, etc. Sorry, but not gonna gitr dun t'nite, ya'll.:rolleyes::pullhair:

[General Scales]

So I just want to say that this was the smoothest tournament all year. Everyone got along. The camping was awesome if not a little cold. The atmosphere was just really chill. Payout for the am's was AMAZING.

Thanks to Jack, Scott, Kris and all the other volunteers for putting out a top notch tournament. Would be nice to make it an A tier next year. Could it be done?

With that being said, I do have one complaint. I lost my game somewhere out there. If somebody could just return that to me, that would be fantastic. Also, lost a white Grip Line Spike with an ace on it. That's more important at this point.

[ScottW]

The tournament went very well! Jack did another great job and I have to pass on any accolades sent my way because I really was just a SMALL piece of this. Jack did 99% of it, including making the trophies by hand. This was a rare tourney for me in the fact that everyone that I played with in all 3 of my groups was way fun and chill to play with. I truely enjoyed the company within each round, I can't say I was a big fan of how I played each round but they were all fun. I was also surprised by my payout as well as my wife's who was the only player in her division, we definitely got more back then what we paid in.

As for the results (and Stimpi's 1045 round) that will all be taken care of when the TD report is fully submitted and the appropriate divisions/pools/courses played are covered. For those of you who have filled out a TD report that makes sense, for those who haven't just know that it can be a pain in the @$$ with even a small tournament and only gets harder with more added cash. The results will be official by the time the next ratings update rolls around so just know that Jack will do what he can to get those results submitted correctly. In the meantime just give Jack all of the accolades and credit that he deserves for running another great event. I was a little disappointed to not see more players from MT and out of region make this but kudos to those who made the trip, we even had some from Boise.

[General Scales]

Props also to Cole for taking 1st in both the tournament and the inland Northwest series. Yeah boy!

[prospect]

Thank you Stu, I appreciate the kind words. However, the true props go to all of the other competitors, and the TD's that made the series what it was this year. I hope it becomes even bigger and better as disc golf continues to grow in the Northwest.

[Kris C]

Stu, there was a white Spike in the lost n found bin. Maybe give Jack a call to see if it still is?

Thanks Jack for an amazing tourney! Most fun I've had all year!!!

[General Scales]

Stu, there was a white Spike in the lost n found bin. Maybe give Jack a call to see if it still is?

Thanks Jack for an amazing tourney! Most fun I've had all year!!!

Nah, that was Sean Blackwell's. I fell for that twice since he lost it twice in two rounds the first day. Which is ironic because they were identical. The only difference being that the outside of my rim was stained with red marks because I killed a bird on a short drive at Corbin with it :nono:. It was an accident and the bird actually helped slow my disc down enough to get a birdie.

[Kris C]

Nah, that was Sean Blackwell's. I fell for that twice since he lost it twice in two rounds the first day. Which is ironic because they were identical. The only difference being that the outside of my rim was stained with red marks because I killed a bird on a short drive at Corbin with it :nono:. It was an accident and the bird actually helped slow my disc down enough to get a birdie.

^^ pun intended? :slapface:

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I have sent in the completed TD report with the specifics of which course was played by each division in each round. As soon as PDGA updates that info, the round ratings should make more sense. Did you hear I shot a 1470 round on the new pitch n putt? Oh, that wasn't 18 holes? Well would you believe a 735 round on 9 holes:laughing:

[Sean Johnson]

Yeah, I couldn't help but laugh when I saw that my +5 round on Northstar came back as a 966 rated round. :laughing: I might not laugh when they get adjusted, but I've got no one but myself to blame for that particular mess of a round. :biggrin2:

Seriously though, this was one of my favorite tournaments ever, right up there with ZooTown and the Fling. Everything seemed to run really smooth, the camping was awesome, the payouts and player packs were great, and just about everyone I talked too felt the same. Thanks to all the volunteers (tourney and camping), the overwhelmingly cheerful players, and the TD for making this such a memorable event.

[Yoduh]

Had a great time this weekend despite not playing well. The tournament ran really smoothly and cannot wait for the next big event out there. The payout was big (for the ams) and the trophy's were sweet! Congrats to Ben for battling back from a tough first round and taking it.

[General Scales]

^^ pun intended? :slapface:

Yes the pun was intended. The death of the innocent bird was not :waaah:

[tomw]

12 great years of the Farragut st park disc golf( Open) tournament has now come to an end. This event has surely come along way since the early ones that i fondly remember. The course(s), the sport and its player base has increased leeps and bounds over the years.
There always seems to be some sort of difficulties that arise for a tourney director to deal with. Especially with sanctioning agreements, which double the work load. I know that i had been bothered in the past, by a small amount of tourney day frustrations that seemed to overshadow the good times people had at my events, but the pre tourney forum chatter on this event is enough to push away most any director from wanting to undertake this again?
Jack Wardian did a great job. I THANK YOU for all the work you and the other volunteers did for this event, not to mention the NIDGClub(recreators at heart) league work, and Rapid fire plastics.
I stayed away from posting prior to this event what i thought the director should do, and was pleased to just be a player who supported his event. If there is a 13th Farragut open next year i HOPE someone or a group of someones will standup and throw their hats into the basket of TOURNAMENT DIRECTING and continue this great NORTH IDAHO TRADITION. TW

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Tom - I appreciate your comments and insights. Must say you are a gentleman and a class act. Thanks for laying the groundwork for this tournament over the previous years. I agree that it would be nice to see some new faces take the lead in local tournaments. I do wonder if some simpler non-sanctioned events wouldn't encourage more people to throw their hat (or fleece beanie?) in the ring and get their feet wet running a tournament. Kudos to Kris Cummings for running a nice one at Cherry Hill this summer.:yay:

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I see that the official results for the tournament now include round ratings, indicating the PDGA has reviewed all the results. Sorry to report, Stimpi, that they stole your 1040 rated round:cop: The good news is that you shot well above your player rating for all 3 rounds. Nice job.:yay: Regarding the Pros and Adv. Men scores, I did send an inquiry to the PDGA, as I am confused by the round ratings for the Sunday round on Double Black Diamond (A.W.O.L.) with the the changes that added about 350' of overall length. A 57 in round 1 was rated 1004, while a 57 in round 3 on the longer version was rated 998; a 58 in round 1 was rated 995, while the same 58 in round 3 on the longer version was rated 989. Seems odd.:chinscratch:

[Stimpi]

It sounds like, overall, Open players shot better on the harder course. That would account for the lower ratings, regardless of how difficult the course is.

[ScottW]

I sure can't speak for everyone but I know myself and another player in my flight each shot a 3 on hole 6 for DBD for the last round. I also 3'd it during the 1st round. I know that single handedly we did change much but I know we sure didn't help the SSA out with that.

[tomw]

My second round on DBD was 5 throws better than my first round. That did not help the ratings either:nono:

[tomw]

My second round on DBD was 5 throws better than my first round. That did not help the ratings either:nono:

972 rating for par 60 on DBD second round. I can live with that number:D