Risk/Reward and Trojan

["Over the Hill" Bob]

In light of recent posts on here about lost disc's at Trojan I have to ask at what point does Risk/Reward shots at a disc golf course become detrimantal? We all lose disc's playing our sport and we expect to but with the volume of disc's lost in the water at Trojan I have to wonder is it worth it? I usually only play Trojan in competitive events because it ceases to be fun for me when it starts to cost $30 and up to play a round of golf out there. It is a beautiful park and some great looking holes but come on, how many discs is it worth? How many discs have the Trojan Nation found and returned? Micah found how many? 100 plus? Brian started a business out of it? How many were lost yesterday alone at Team Golf? I know the pond at Dabney gets a few in it but it is only one hole. At Trojan it is 'many' holes! I don't know what could be done to lessen the impact if anything or if I am the only one that feels this way and maybe nothing could be or should be done. Am I the only one that feels this way? I do know of one other Team Golf player that stated he would play Team Golf out there but wouldn't go out again other wise, so maybe there are others. Thoughts? Comments? What does everyone else think?

Bob

[all2common]

You can play Trojan very conservatively and not lose any discs. By that I mean that you have to be able to throw at least 50ft. And except for hole 10 where throwing to land is 180 ft. That takes all the fun out of though.

I'm bummed when I lose plastic at Trojan...but when I lose it I really lose it. On the flip side, when I hook up a risky shot, I'm pretty stoked about it. What a game...it's kinda like dating.

[keys]

In light of recent posts on here about lost disc's at Trojan I have to ask at what point does Risk/Reward shots at a disc golf course become detrimantal? We all lose disc's playing our sport and we expect to but with the volume of disc's lost in the water at Trojan I have to wonder is it worth it? I usually only play Trojan in competitive events because it ceases to be fun for me when it starts to cost $30 and up to play a round of golf out there. It is a beautiful park and some great looking holes but come on, how many discs is it worth? How many discs have the Trojan Nation found and returned? Micah found how many? 100 plus? Brian started a business out of it? How many were lost yesterday alone at Team Golf? I know the pond at Dabney gets a few in it but it is only one hole. At Trojan it is 'many' holes! I don't know what could be done to lessen the impact if anything or if I am the only one that feels this way and maybe nothing could be or should be done. Am I the only one that feels this way? I do know of one other Team Golf player that stated he would play Team Golf out there but wouldn't go out again other wise, so maybe there are others. Thoughts? Comments? What does everyone else think?

Bob

I like to bring a few dx discs. I like high 160s dx wraiths which seem to be found at half the tournaments we play. If I loose one it's not like Its a disc I have beat in just right and had for a while. I would have no fun playing Trojan with only my goto discs. It would take all the fun out of it.

[Tennessee]

I think Trojan is a great course with fair fairways.
You can play safe / smart at Trojan and walk away with every disc in your bag or go for it on some dangerous holes and maybe pay the price.
The course demands well placed shots and rewards those who play smooth steady golf.
The one walkout is unfortunate but other than that it has great flow.
I recently asked my best friend (who was out here for two months) what course he missed playing most to which he answered Milo and Trojan. The first time he played Trojan he shot 3 down with a lost disc (because he tried to park a dangerous hole) and at the time had only been playing six months.
Great flow, amazing holes, beautiful setting, big tee pads and to watch a course get into peoples head and make them throw shots they normally would never throw oh yeah i'm stoked to have that course near my home..
p.s. all that goose sh_t does suck though.
Cheers Mat

[Matt B.]

You can play Trojan very conservatively and not lose any discs. By that I mean that you have to be able to throw at least 50ft. And except for hole 10 where throwing to land is 180 ft. That takes all the fun out of though.

I'm bummed when I lose plastic at Trojan...but when I lose it I really lose it. On the flip side, when I hook up a risky shot, I'm pretty stoked about it. What a game...it's kinda like dating.

What kind of risky sluts are you hooking up with in your dating yo?!

Oh, shots! ....nevermind

[jevon]

I like Trojan, a lot. Yesterday was my first time playing with the paths being o.b. and that I did not like. It just made it way to hard for my liking to not be able to land over the path.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

I like Trojan, a lot. Yesterday was my first time playing with the paths being o.b. and that I did not like. It just made it way to hard for my liking to not be able to land over the path.

Totally agree on the ob paths. The penninsula hole for us weak arms becomes very frustrating.

Bob

[all2common]

What kind of risky sluts are you hooking up with in your dating yo?!

Oh, shots! ....nevermind

Nice...very, nice!

[Ol' Bob]

I don't play Trojan all that much (because I don't go anywhere all that much). I did notice that when I started playing safer/smarter, my scores immediately dropped. I'm a coward who hasn't lost a disc there since I lost my nerve.

BTW, and FWIW, I think making the paths OB would be chickenshit on that course. It's tough enough already.

[Tim]

Heh, I'd always assumed the paths were OB...I guess that's what playing at Terrace, Lakewood, and White River will do to you.

Man, -3 on the first try, after only 6 months of playing? :shocked: I'm sure your friend is cool, Mat, but I'm not sure if I like him. :laughing:

[Tennessee]

Heh, I'd always assumed the paths were OB...I guess that's what playing at Terrace, Lakewood, and White River will do to you.

Man, -3 on the first try, after only 6 months of playing? :shocked: I'm sure your friend is cool, Mat, but I'm not sure if I like him. :laughing:

The sun will shine on a dogs ass every once in awhile :D

[JMan]

Yea, who claimed the paths ob, my understanding, from the designer, was that paths were not ob as the course had enough hazards.

[Bullseye]

Yea, who claimed the paths ob, my understanding, from the designer, was that paths were not ob as the course had enough hazards.

I think the paths OB started when the OR Series ran an event there. Prior to that, only the water and parking lots were OB.

[Sean Phillips]

I had always played the paths on the first 6 or so holes as OB. I love the OB paths, makes the holes more "interesting" and it keeps discs away from walkers.

The loss of many discs is unfortunate, but I agree with others on this thread that if you play relatively safe you can get out unscathed. I play relatively safe every time I go there. Out of about 10+ times playing Trojan I've lost 3 discs (knock on wood). I play very safe on holes 8 and 11. I've watched a NW top player hit water with 4 discs in a row on hole 8. :pullhair:

I will say Trojan takes a certain level of play to be able to have fun. I have had beginer disc golf friends ask me about trojan and I usually tell them to play for 6 more months before we take that trip. :rockon:

[jevon]

I pretty much always play a path as OB, just never played OVER a path as OB at Trojan.

[Scott]

I don't understand the concept of playing a path OB, but over the path as not OB. Why not just paint random circles on the fairway and call them OB?

Protecting walkers on the path? I don't buy it. A disc that lands on the path is probably coming in at ankle height or lower. A disc that lands over the path could be coming in at head height and still be safe (as in, not OB).

[jevon]

I don't understand the concept of playing a path OB, but over the path as not OB. Why not just paint random circles on the fairway and call them OB?
Rockwood and Vance are the first to come to mind. Many paths cross the fairways.

[JMan]

Why not just paint random circles on the fairway and call them OB?
Funny you should mention this Scott, as it is exactly what is happening in pdga events in the mid west and eastern areas. There was an article on this, but I wasn't able to find it to post a link at this time. When I find it I'll pass it along.

[gwillim]

I love Trojan, it's one of my favourite courses. I love the challenge, I love the mental strain, and I even love throwing discs in the water. There's no other place in the NW that I have played that makes you really have to trust your abilities. If I throw a disc in the water, I do so knowing and accepting the risk (less a tree knack or something) beforehand.

Then again, I have a "Trojan pile" of backups and old plastic that I take with me when I play Trojan specifically to sacrifice at an attempted birdy on hole 8 (which I've parked a few times).

I think it's one of Chris' favourite courses as well, and she can only throw around 250-270'.

[Scott]

Then again, I have a "Trojan pile" of backups and old plastic that I take with me when I play Trojan specifically to sacrifice at an attempted birdy on hole 8 (which I've parked a few times).



This backfired for me. I throw a disc that I don't throw very often = I'm not as familiar with that disc = I don't really know what it's going to do = it's wet/goodbye. Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do best out there when I have full confidence and throw my regular bag (my last round out there/5 discs lost notwithstanding).

[Scott]

Funny you should mention this Scott, as it is exactly what is happening in pdga events in the mid west and eastern areas. There was an article on this, but I wasn't able to find it to post a link at this time. When I find it I'll pass it along.

I've read about that, and don't think I would like it. How does that reward a great shot? Totally random.

[Scott]

I love Trojan, it's one of my favourite courses. I love the challenge, I love the mental strain, and I even love throwing discs in the water. There's no other place in the NW that I have played that makes you really have to trust your abilities. If I throw a disc in the water, I do so knowing and accepting the risk (less a tree knack or something) beforehand.


Yeah, but you've got to admit that you and Bob are not the same golfer.
I think even Bob would admit that.

I think the majority of advanced/pro players really like this course.
Those of us with less game just have to be masochistic to play it.

I'm with Sean Philips - I do not recommend this course to newer players. In fact, I actively discourage it.

[Dave Pittman]

I think the paths OB started when the OR Series ran an event there. Prior to that, only the water and parking lots were OB.

The path and across at Trojan has always been OB on holes 1-5. Quoting Jerry Miller with misspelling “hole 1 thru 5, on or accross the path towards the lake is O.B.”.


I pretty much always play a path as OB, just never played OVER a path as OB at Trojan.

It has been my experience that whether a path, sidewalk or road delineates OB as it runs parallel to the fairway or behind a green, that across is OB as well.
When you are throwing across a path/road that runs perpendicular to the hole between tee and green it usually is only be the path/road as OB, Whistler’s top of the world hole (14) for example. That hole actually has both cases of OB…
Adair has a paved walking path from the road to the tennis courts that cuts across 17’s fairway between the short and long pin positions. It is not OB per general course rules. However it can and has been used as OB in tournament play. Additional OB’s or mando’s for tournament play is up to the tournament director and shouldn’t be unexpected.

[Sausage Fingers]

Additional OB’s or mando’s for tournament play is up to the tournament director and shouldn’t be unexpected.

Thanks Dave! I was just going to point that out, but you beat me to it!

I had my best drive to date on hole 3 yesterday. Waaay down by the basket, but the disc skipped (or was blown by the wind) just OB on the path by no more than 2-3 inches from a safe throw.:slapface:

[zippyboy]

Wow. I suppose I should chime in on this now...

Paths as OB: Meh. Play that way, don't play that way. Whatever. You need more challenge? Make the paths and over OB (by the way, there is no "pathway" on hole one, and if you don't throw over the path on hole two, you won't get to the basket). If not, I think the water alone provides enough of a challenge.

Risk/reward: Being our home course, we (the 'Nation) have lost many discs to the Gods (see also: beavers) of Trojan. However, we also are well versed in the uses of floating discs. Slag on the Lightning discs all you want, we lose much less plastic than most of the rest of you do playing here, and we play this course a lot more often.

Not a course for beginners: BS. In fact, Trojan is one hell of a course to learn on. I learned to swear REALLY LOUDLY on this course. And, I also learned how disc golf SHOULD be played - much like a game of chess - thinking one or two throws ahead, and how to best navigate a hole based upon skill level, distance limitations, and the discs in your bag.

Personally, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I feel spoiled that Trojan is my home course. I feel even more spoiled that my home away from home course is the Mud. Two of the most beautiful and challenging courses in the NW. I love em.

[Brian]

I like Trojan .. and I like that others like Trojan too. Keep going for it first shot .. if it isn't a birdie you didn't try hard enough!

Maybe I can become part of the nation!?!?

[Sean Phillips]

I feel the need to clarify my position on the paths/OB discussion.

At trojan, holes 3,5,6,7 have paths paralleling fairways and I play them as, on or over = OB. I'm pretty sure Jerry Miller designed the course with that in mind, however the TD has the final call.

All of the "old school" disc golfers I have ever played with play concrete (road or paths) as water/OB. So I've adopted that mind set. It may be unfair or random at times, but you should know where it is.

On the "random circles of OB in PDGA tourneys" topic. This has been implemented in tourneys here in the NW. Festivus and Triple shot elimination to name two. Usually the TD puts circles of OB in strategic places to make a hole more difficult or more of a risk/reward hole. In all the tourneys I've played where this was implemented I've liked it. :cheerleader:

[keys]

I'm with Sean Philips - I do not recommend this course to newer players. In fact, I actively discourage it.

I disagree, Trojan is a great place to learn to play. Trojan was the first 18 hole course I ever played and it frustrated the hell out of me at the beginning, but I was still hooked. Here are the reasons why.

1.) The place is dead most days. You will never get rushed by other groups. You can really take your time.
2.) If you do run into other disc golfers, they are always very cool. The first people I ran into out there were Mitch and Corey. Enough Said!
3.) When you do finally make that risky shot over the water, you are super stoked. Nothing feels beter when you first start playing, hell it still feels pretty good now.
4.) Trojan has a great mix of shots and hole lengths.
5.) Its one of the most beautiful courses in the state!
6.) Its got huge roomy tee pads!

My advise to beginners playing Trojan is to invest in a roll of string and floating plastic. May I suggest the dragon (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/dragon.html).

[Ol' Bob]

I really should put together a Trojan bag (even though I have only one disc out there {or in Brian's collection now}). Mitch, we need to talk about setting me up with the right floaters (and a Pocket Fisherman).

[Tennessee]

We all lose disc's playing our sport and we expect to but with the volume of disc's lost in the water at Trojan I have to wonder is it worth it?

Bob
After reading everyones opinion (excluding Scott's) i think the answer to your original question is yes. :cheers:

[zippyboy]

Brian - despite our differences in disc returning opinions, you are more than welcome to be part of the 'Nation. All we ask is that you join at least two (or more) of the founding 'Nation members for a round out there (and a beverage or two).

Bob - I would be more than happy to hook you up with some Trojan plastic. Also, I now have your bag straps.

Sean - What about the path on eight, nine, and twelve (regarding "over the path" being out of bounds)?

Keys - All your points about Trojan are spot on. However, we have been (slowly) starting to see more and more people out there. As much as its nice to have a course to ones self, it is better to see more people throwing things out there...

[Sean Phillips]

Sean - What about the path on eight, nine, and twelve (regarding "over the path" being out of bounds)?

Good question, I forgot about those holes.

8-Ken Gilmore shot over the path on eight, first time I've seen it happen and we called it OB.

9-I'd call the path to the left OB, but it's never come into play in any of my groups. I could see it coming into play for somebody that can't throw over the water and is looking for a conservative way to play the hole. It's a toss up.

12-If I were TDing a tourney I'd call it on or over=OB, but I'm a bastard and that hole is intimidating enough already. I've played this hole both ways, I don't believe Jerry Miller intended the path as an OB line, but concrete=OB so on the path would be OB.

How does the Nation play the holes?

[Swampthing]

Hey Zippy, do you know Haley's contact info? I found a white Avenger SS that has his/her name on it. I called the # but didn't get a response.

Also, I would like to be apart of the Nation. What are the rules for joining. I have played Trojan once and loved it. I didn't do that well (first yr player). But to see plastic flying over water just did something for me! Anyway let me know and I'd like to play with some of you guys over there sometime.

[Scott]

you know Haley's contact info? I found a white Avenger SS that has his/her name on it. I called the # but didn't get a response.



You can send a PM to her man, Tennessee (Matt Crider) who is now on this forum.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

After reading everyones opinion (excluding Scott's) i think the answer to your original question is yes. :cheers:

It DOES appear that way. Must just be me being unemployed and not want to lose plastic.

opinion (excluding Scott's)

Ask him, I always do!:rockon:

Bob

[Swampthing]

You can send a PM to her man, Tennessee (Matt Crider) who is now on this forum.

Someone just gave me her #. Called and left a message. Thanks for the info!

[Ol' Bob]

I guess I'm often across the path (and in the stinkin' brush) on 8. No safe shot for the short drive artists.

[all2common]

Play the bridge!

[Ol' Bob]

Perhaps you're right, I'll look at it differently next time I'm there.

[zippyboy]

Sean, to answer you question about how the 'Nation plays the holes in question - poorly. Seriousness aside, as we have the course to ourselves so often, we only worry about the water and the highway. The rest of it, we just don't care about. Please keep in mind that we are all mostly players who throw for recreation, and are not typically tourney players.

Personally, were I to TD an event there, all asphalt would be OB, beyond the path on 3 would be out, the right of the path from six would be out (only to upper divisions, though), the path to the left of seven would be out, the path to the left of eight would be out for upper divisions only, same with the path to the left of nine. The path on the right of 12 would be out for everyone. Oh, and the path to the left of 15 would be out for everyone, too.

Hope this helps.

Also, Swampthing (and anyone else), to become part of the 'Nation, all you have to do is make it through 18 holes at Trojan with two or more members of the original 'Nation. Easiest way to do that is to PM me in advance.

~Z

[Adam Schneider]

I'm late to this discussion, but I've played Trojan twice now and didn't lose any discs. I did put a Lightning #2 Driver into (onto!) the water a total of 3 or 4 times, but I was able to fish it out. I'd rather take a chance on throwing a somewhat unfamiliar floating fairway driver than risk losing a favorite $13 disc.

[Eric Olson]

Trojan is awesome. I played there half a dozen times before I lost any discs. The first time I lost discs I was stumbling drunk and it was very windy. Since my cherry was popped that day water losses have happened from time to time, but not enough to keep me from playing there. FWIW, I usually go with my regular discs and just make an effort to keep them dry. More often than not I have been able to go in and retrieve the wet ones. What's messed up is that I have lost 2 discs on the new hole 13, and both of them were on land somewhere in blackberry patches or tall grass.

Actually the thing that keeps me from playing there more often is that Milo is at least a 20 min shorter drive from my place and it's my favorite course. Trojan takes the top honors for scenic beauty though. Especially certain times of year.