Smoke Free?

[Lyounger]

Do you think we'll ever see smoking banned from A and B tier disc golf tournaments?

Do you think more tournament directors will begin to enforce a smoke free tourney central and player's meeting?

Just curious about how folks are responding to this....

[Jeff Hemmerling]

Do you think we'll ever see smoking banned from A and B tier disc golf tournaments?I don't think it'll ever happen but would love to see it. More so during the round than at TC. :)

[Chris Talley]

I sure hope so. I avoid playing the local weeklies because it is such an issue for me.

CT

[General Scales]

I smoke and will ask the group previous to the start if they mind. It would be rude to assume.

As for it being banned? I could and would play without smoking DURING the round. Between rounds are different.

[Scott]

I smoke and will ask the group previous to the start if they mind. It would be rude to assume.

As for it being banned? I could and would play without smoking DURING the round. Between rounds are different.

Would love to see it. Doubt it will happen.

[Vector_2008]

I have heard of cities declaring city parks as being a smoke free zone. I have a course near me that was declared no smoking last summer due to fire danger.
If there is a tournament at one of those parks, you have to follow the local rules or face a penalty.

No smoking may come from rules outside our sport.

[Scott]

I have heard of cities declaring city parks as being a smoke free zone. I have a course near me that was declared no smoking last summer due to fire danger.
If there is a tournament at one of those parks, you have to follow the local rules or face a penalty.

No smoking may come from rules outside our sport.

That is the case at Orchard Park in Hillsboro. We enforce this rule during Tuesday Twos - a lot of players are not particularly happy about that.

[emmarose]

frankly it makes sense that tourneys be non smoking events as well as TC a smoke free area... and i looooooove smoking, but it still makes sense, even to me...

... a brief note on asking if people mind... most people are very polite and will always say "go ahead" even if they don't mean it... it's awkward to say "no"...

[General Scales]

... a brief note on asking if people mind... most people are very polite and will always say "go ahead" even if they don't mean it... it's awkward to say "no"...

This could be the case but if they say yes and really mean no, thats not my issue. That seems like a backbone issue with the player themselves. These are probably the same people that will see a ridiculous foot fault and not say anything because they don't want to rock the boat.

If somebody says no, that is totally fine with me. If they were to go off on a tirade about how smoking is the worst evil (even more so than the Bush Administration), we may have an problem...

[Todd Andrews]

From the PDGA January Board meeting minutes:

K2/Medicinal Marijuana Discussion – Nesbitt
The use of K2 and other similar synthetic smoking products during competition was discussed. The
discussion evolved to whether smoking should be prohibited at PDGA events. The board felt that if
enacted, the restriction should be implemented at PDGA Majors first.

MOTION (Korver/Jenkins)
Restrict smoking at the PDGA Pro and Am World Championships in 2011 in the same manner that
alcohol is currently restricted.
Yes: Andrews, Korver, Jenkins, Feldberg, Nesbitt
No: Decker
Motion passes 5-1.

[Jeff Hemmerling]

From the PDGA January Board meeting minutes:

MOTION (Korver/Jenkins)
Restrict smoking at the PDGA Pro and Am World Championships in 2011 in the same manner that
alcohol is currently restricted.
Motion passes 5-1.Awesome! Thanks for the update Todd (and for voting the way I would). ;)

[Ol' Bob]

Guiding rounds here at Mud, I'm almost never asked by smokers. Smoke hits me hard (COPD or sensitive airway syndrom, I'm not sure). Even getting a whiff from fifty feet away starts my bronchials to weeping and I must cough. This is my worst time of year for reacting, now through the summer. Still bothers in winter, but not as much. We had a glow round last Saturday and with the wind blowing our way, the Neighbor From Hell (NFH) lit off a pile of plastic that smoked late into the night. It sure ruined my fun.

[Lyounger]

frankly it makes sense that tourneys be non smoking events as well as TC a smoke free area... and i looooooove smoking, but it still makes sense, even to me...
...

I have found almost every person (with rare exception) has been courteous about following the rules during our rounds. It is their responsibility to make sure their smoke does not disrupt others...I've been very impressed and very grateful for this.

Unfortunately at tourney central there seems to be almost no consideration about how someone's smoke disrupts the area.

It is extremely difficult for someone to get close enough to hear at the player's meeting, access the scoreboard and scorecards, and socialize with friends without being exposed to second-hand smoke.

I am extremely sensitive to smoke due to accute sinusitis. Trying to avoid smoke at tourney central is a nightmare and it definitely causes me stress. I've accepted that I have to miss out on a lot of the visiting....but I don't want to miss out on vital information at the player's meeting and have to wait till the smoke is clear to grab the cards or check out the scoreboard.

Unfortunately, it seems way too unreasonable to ban something that is a major factor for so many players. Maybe a compromise could be reached instead. Maybe TDs will set up a "smoking area" or a "smoking side" at tourney central so everyone has the ability to be near the vital information.

[TYVEK]

i dont think it would be right to ban smoking during events. i assume we are talking cigarettes/cigars here since the "other" smoking is already banned. i only very rarely indulge on a cigar, so i am not a smoker whinning. people should have the right to smoke if they want to. all this "no smoking in this or that place" really rubs me the wrong way. for petes sake it is out in the open, not like indoors where i can see that second hand smoke would be a issue.

i would rather see a ban of peeing in the woods at courses than banning smoking. the whole peeing whenever you can on a course is just rediculous.

[Ol' Bob]

Fertilizer is preferable to toxic vapors IMHO.

I had a couple of smokers here on the weekend. I thought they had picked up on my going ahead or having them go ahead, depending on the breeze, because they stopped lighting up. It wasn't to be nice, it was because they were sharing a pack and had run out. When we passed the cottage on the way to our last three holes, they got the resupply of ciggies and fired up full blast.

[Lyounger]

i would rather see a ban of peeing in the woods at courses than banning smoking. the whole peeing whenever you can on a course is just rediculous.






lol...and can you imagine if folks just peed all over the place at tourney central and during the player's meeting!!! LMAO:shocked:

[whalekillah]

i dont think it would be right to ban smoking during events. i assume we are talking cigarettes/cigars here since the "other" smoking is already banned. i only very rarely indulge on a cigar, so i am not a smoker whinning. people should have the right to smoke if they want to. all this "no smoking in this or that place" really rubs me the wrong way. for petes sake it is out in the open, not like indoors where i can see that second hand smoke would be a issue.

i would rather see a ban of peeing in the woods at courses than banning smoking. the whole peeing whenever you can on a course is just rediculous.

I agree. Smoke all you want, but for god sakes keep your horse in the barn. On that same note it would help if public parks ,with disc golf courses, would leave their bathrooms open in the "off" season. Just as a courtesy to those of us that play in those parks year around.

[Ol' Bob]

You guys just wait until your prostates are 64 years old.

[ChUcK]

Boring topic is boring. Leslie, have you ever considered the fact that you may have some personal habits that others find repulsive?

[DMajor]

I would love to see smoking banned from tournament play or all play. Outside or inside if you can smell it, it's entering your body. I used to have chronic sinusitis (cured it with a neti pot), one car ride with a cigarette smoker used to get me terribly sick. It's better now, but I still don't want anyone else deciding what to put in my body for me especially when half the point of me being outside is to get some fresh air.

I really love seeing cigarette buds on the ground too, especially in a nice nature setting...

[Adam Schneider]

Leslie, have you ever considered the fact that you may have some personal habits that others find repulsive?
Do Leslie's other personal habits affect everyone within a 100' radius?

[ChUcK]

Do Leslie's other personal habits affect everyone within a 100' radius?

They might, I don't know what her personal habits are.

By choosing to go somewhere with prior knowledge that cigarettes will be smoked by peers, and then whining about it afterward, it becomes apparent that metacognition may not be Leslie's strong suit. Therefore, I stuck my nose in (probably unnecessarily) and offered a new view to consider.

Dan, separate cigarette smoke from littering. That is a whole different can of worms. You're right, though, butts on the ground make my blood boil- just no more so than any other piece of trash I see on the ground.

[emmarose]

comparing cigarettes to other habits is a nonargument. cigarette smoke will kill you... picking your nose probably will not... to argue anything else is ignorant. i recently heard a piece on npr about banning smoking even more than it already is due to studies on second hand smoke and it's lack of dissipating even in the great outdoors... the carcinogens and the nasties don't just disappear into some kind of magical carcinogen and tar-fairy land... even if you can no longer smell the smoke the poisons are there...

... now, this does not mean that i do not totally sympathize with smokers... i battle every day with my absolute infatuation with cigarettes. it is incredibly hard to not smoke once you've been doing it for a while and i fully believe that nonsmokers will never be able to wrap their heads around what a total bitch it is, but i still think it is unacceptable to smoke... and sometimes i do it anyway...

... main point is, comparing cigarettes to clipping your toenails and leaving them around the house in little piles or wiping your boogies on the bathroom wall is silly... that kinda deplorable behaviour will not kill the innocent bystander...

[Ol' Bob]

I'm giving up licking bathroom walls right now! It will have to be easier than the ten times I quit smoking.

Moderation in all things (except cigarettes). I could never moderate those damned things. They must put something in there that does that. Good cigars don't do that. Anyway, my payoff for all those years of two packs is the smoke now hurts and makes me cough, even when it's in micro-amounts. I hope that gives the cigarette smokers something to look forward to. Better to kick now than later.

So yes, I do know what it's like to be hooked. And I believe the junkies who say that cigarettes are harder to quit than skag.

[Chuck Kennedy]

i would rather see a ban of peeing in the woods at courses than banning smoking. the whole peeing whenever you can on a course is just ridiculous.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/13/streets-awash-in-drunken-pee-sydney-australia-introduces-open/

[bryan_luoma]

What are the real solutions to this problem?
Who's responsibility is it to make sure you are not exposed to second hand smoke (on the golf course or elsewhere)?

Maybe we need to change the Oregon labor laws?
Should we consider modifying the privacy laws too?
More education on the dangers of smoking?
Might we extend the smoking ban beyond just restaurants, taverns, and bars?
How about starting or seeking existing petitions to prevent the sale of tobacco or shutting down tobacco companies?

I saw a story on CNBC recently of a business owner who prohibited his employees from smoking. He legally deployed random analysis for the presence of nicotine and fired offenders. This could work in some states?

Immediate options:
1) Do not enter (or remove yourself from) an environment with second-hand smoke.
2) Ask the offender to stop smoking because it is dangerous to your health.

WRT the disc golf environment, I think option two "should" be pretty effective in general.

[Sean Phillips]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/13/streets-awash-in-drunken-pee-sydney-australia-introduces-open/

Those would be awesome to have on courses. Too many courses lack restrooms which leaves us "gotta go" folks few options. :blush:

[emmarose]

Those would be awesome to have on courses. Too many courses lack restrooms which leaves us "gotta go" folks few options. :blush:

pretty much still leaves the ladies up the pee creek without a... ummm... not really sure where i'm going with this...

... but... i still find the lack of surplus & clean potty options for the women folk entirely unacceptable... it's time to start a revolution... i demand clean toilet seats and fresh, breathable air!!!

power to the pee-ple...

[JMan]

My standard comment here is...once the powers that be convince all of us smaokers to drop the habit, what will they tax next? You realize we smokers voluntarily pay very high taxes, and after we all buy into how bad it is and quit, where is all that tax revenue going to come from. You'll have to pick a product that is used predominately by middle to lower incomes, and something that is used frequently enough that daily or weekly purchases are made. So that pretty much narrows it down to higher taxes on baby formula, diapers, soda, alcohol (slippery slope here, as I don't mind being around smoke as much as a person who is drunk...I don't). And my stock answer to those who claim that being around second hand smoke is worse than being the smoker...well, looks like I made the right choice there. It never works well when you try to legislate morality or vice...hello prohibition. I'll be a curtious smoker, you be a curtious non-smoker.

[Ol' Bob]

I agree with Honest Abe on this one. Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.

That said, the formulation of popular brand cigarettes is a crime against the human species for profit. It is probably as much an abuse of the plant as it is of the smoker. If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

[Jason Philips]

If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

I agree and disagree with that statement. Entitlement will make any person complain and if persuasive enough more will follow.

It boils down to respect. Respect those around you, plain and simple.

[TYVEK]

I agree with Honest Abe on this one.

That said, the formulation of popular brand cigarettes is a crime against the human species for profit. It is probably as much an abuse of the plant as it is of the smoker. If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.


i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.

[Matt B.]

i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.

There is definitely a lot of nasty stuff in cigarettes. But tobacco is still addictive and carcinogenic and unhealthy to smoke even when it's straight off the plant.

[HarrisonH]

My two cents are that outdoor cigarette smoke is quite honestly the least of our worries as a society. Sure, the smoker should be alarmed that they are directly inhaling the carcinogens associated with tobacco, particularly the additives used, and indoor second hand smoke can build to toxic levels quick.
I think that in the broad spectrum of things, there is a flood of other toxins in our society that far outweighs the slight addition of outdoor second hand smoke that may set off flares of asthma or sinusitis, or even general discomfort. My intuition tells me that in most cases those conditions are much more largely caused by emissions from cars, fumes from VOCs in virtually everything from your furniture, paint, carpets, and cleaning agents and more, and general pollution from the industrial dependency and lack of environmental stringencies in other aspects of our society. To start blaming the second hand smoke of a guy in a park is ludicrous, IMO, and there are much more important battles to fight. Look at the bright side, smokers are flooding tax dollars into our economy. Just stand upwind.

[Ol' Bob]

Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

==============

The air on this course where I live and golf is not affected much by automotive and industrial pollution (Fukushima aside, for a few half-lives). That is why I am here. Not much but trees upwind for thirty-some miles to the sea. And I will tell you honestly, second-hand cigarette smoke bothers my bronchials from long distances. Herbal smoke does not. Being in a house or car where someone has smoked cigarettes bothers. When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.

[HarrisonH]

Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

==============

When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.

I do smoke, and I only smoke very natural tobacco, with organic unbleached papers. I agree, they are just as addictive, but I guarantee you they are much less harsh to others around. Marlboros, Camels, and everything like them smell like poison at second hand, even to me.

==============

I am by no means trying to call bullshit. The point I am bringing up is that second hand smoke may make existing bronchial conditions flare, but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.

This is a tough topic, because obviously things are screwed either way. I think the best thing is for us all to be respectful of one another, however I do lean towards the side of designated smoking areas. I also think smokers should roll their own natural tobacco and stop supporting big tobacco.

Anyway, last thing I am trying to do here is ruffle any feathers. This topic is way beyond black and white, as are most. But it's always fun to spark discussion. :bricks:

[Ol' Bob]

... but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.

I already covered that my problems probably have most to do with all the cigarettes I smoked many years ago. But now I'm very sensitive to others' smoke and nearly have to run out of a smoke stream. It's that bad at this time of year. Think of burning plastic. When I run my diesel tractor to mow the course, I wear a full industrial type respirator mask. But the truth is, ciggy smoke is worse feeling to my system than the diesel exhaust.

I'm pretty sure that I could cure that sensitivity by starting to smoke again. I wonder how long my lungs would last if I did that. I have started smoking is self defense years back. But the overall degradation of my feeling of wellbeing forced me to go through withdrawals yet another time. Quitting is tough. After doing it so many times, never again.

[TreeLove]

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

[emmarose]

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

well done, pdga.

[TYVEK]

well done, pdga.

no, not well done at all. its more like SHAME ON YOU PDGA!!!!! banning usage of illegal substances is totally understandable, but not legal substances. whats next your going to tell me that we have to use a certain hair gel or we all have to use deoderant??!!

just one more nail in the coffin of america's so called freedom.

[Ol' Bob]

We are not free to poison each other. Poison ourselves, maybe. Do you want to be the one who gets to name the poisons and determine the parts per million/billion levels? I think the science is there, and you no longer have that option.

Freedom to do what you want with no other considerations simply cannot work. The tobacco lobby doesn't like that. Good luck to your lungs when you're my age. You can be happy, or not, for the industry you helped enrich.

I remember when I was in the navy on a diesel submarine with 80 other guys, all lit up, all the time. We would smoke when the air was so depleted of oxygen and loaded with carbon dioxide that fire would only smolder and could not flame. The only way to light up was to use the electric (car type) cigarette lighter in the Control Room, or get a touch off another's burning butt. When we couldn't light a match or a Zippo, we still had to keep getting our fix.

When we were outside the "three mile limit," (and tax free) the good folks at the tobacco companies made their product available to us of the GI persuasion at 50 cents a carton. They knew where to invest.

[sillybizz]

Surely people can wait 2 hours to smoke. You're not going to die if you don't get your precious nicotine in that time.

[emmarose]

no, not well done at all. its more like SHAME ON YOU PDGA!!!!! banning usage of illegal substances is totally understandable, but not legal substances. whats next your going to tell me that we have to use a certain hair gel or we all have to use deoderant??!!

just one more nail in the coffin of america's so called freedom.

you think ball players should be able to smoke during their games as well?

[TreeLove]

Some PGA ball golfers DO smoke during PDGA tournament rounds, or at least they did fairly recently. They tend not to show it on TV, but it happens.

[Ol' Bob]

Some PDGA ball golfers DO smoke during PDGA tournament rounds, or at least they did fairly recently. They tend not to show it on TV, but it happens.

You meant "PGA," right?

[TYVEK]

you think ball players should be able to smoke during their games as well?

i think that if any of the ball players (baseball,football,soccer, am i forgeting any?) had the time to smoke, then i would say that they should be allowed to do so. the catch is that they usually dont have the time, except on the bench.

if you were talking about regular golf, then yes they should and they do as was previously posted.

[TreeLove]

You meant "PGA," right?

Oops, yep.

[TreeLove]

IIRC, the reason so many MLB baseball players chew tobacco is because smoking tobacco is against the rules, or else they would be smoking.

[Sam]

That is the case at Orchard Park in Hillsboro. We enforce this rule during Tuesday Twos - a lot of players are not particularly happy about that.

FYI - this is why I will not be attending any Tuesday Twos events this year. When HPD pulls their heads out of their asses, I will return to this course. Until then, I will play at the big boy courses where babysitters are not needed...

[Sam]

you think ball players should be able to smoke during their games as well?

They do. Pedro Guerrero used to smoke cigarettes in the dugout.

[Lyounger]

They might, I don't know what her personal habits are.

By choosing to go somewhere with prior knowledge that cigarettes will be smoked by peers, and then whining about it afterward, it becomes apparent that metacognition may not be Leslie's strong suit. Therefore, I stuck my nose in (probably unnecessarily) and offered a new view to consider.



LOL:yay: Thanks Chuck



Dan, separate cigarette smoke from littering. That is a whole different can of worms. You're right, though, butts on the ground make my blood boil- just no more so than any other piece of trash I see on the ground.


BTW, I definitely seperate cigarette smoking from littering. I also do not consider cigarrette smoking or cigarrette smokers repulsive. Those were not my words or my intended meaning.

Just trying to have an "intelligent" dialog around an obviously sensitive subject in order to possibly surface some compromises...especially since it appears this may be handled with broad strokes in the future.

[emmarose]

i think that if any of the ball players (baseball,football,soccer, am i forgeting any?) had the time to smoke, then i would say that they should be allowed to do so. the catch is that they usually dont have the time, except on the bench.

if you were talking about regular golf, then yes they should and they do as was previously posted.

hmmm. interesting, indeed.

[JMan]

Leslie and I were in a group a few years ago and I stayed on the right side of the wind and we had no worries. It's about respect, on both sides...but make no mistake, I smoke like a freaking chimney. I don't need the permission of my group provided I am curtious, and I refuse to apologize for paying more in taxes than other Americans. Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American; if you ask me to stop I question your commitment to this great nation.

So Sam, let's get together for a Tuesday evening round....

[TreeLove]

Leslie and I were in a group a few years ago and I stayed on the right side of the wind and we had no worries. It's about respect, on both sides...but make no mistake, I smoke like a freaking chimney. I don't need the permission of my group provided I am curtious, and I refuse to apologize for paying more in taxes than other Americans. Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American; if you ask me to stop I question your commitment to this great nation.

So Sam, let's get together for a Tuesday evening round....

Would it be in bad taste if I termed that post idiotic?

Dick statement: "I don't need the permission of my group..." You may not NEED it, but you SHOULD ask for it!

Bonehead statement: "Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American"
a) What is a good American? Is there such a thing? And if so, smoking helps declare it?

I smoked in Leslie's group too, and the only thing that made me was a douche bag. An unhealthy douche bag. Just like when I smoked in 'Ol Bob's group. And all those others whose groups I smoked in.

[Stimpi]

With Medical Marijuana Laws expanding all over the country, the arguement of "legality" will soon be moot. What other reasons would we ban "substances" from events?
At a B-tier, many years ago, the TD brought up the "no alcohol or drug use" policy, stating it was a form of "artificial stress relief".
Half-way through the round, this same TD came up to my group, asking to bum a cigarette. I expressed my surprise at him being a smoker and he replied, "Only when I'm really stressed out."
He didn't appreciate my reminding him about his "artificial stress relief" speech.
Cigs OK, joints or beers not. Hmmmmm.

[Ol' Bob]

Leslie and I were in a group a few years ago and I stayed on the right side of the wind and we had no worries. It's about respect, on both sides...but make no mistake, I smoke like a freaking chimney. I don't need the permission of my group provided I am curtious, and I refuse to apologize for paying more in taxes than other Americans. Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American; if you ask me to stop I question your commitment to this great nation.

So Sam, let's get together for a Tuesday evening round....

I guess the urge is unjustified or presumptuous, but some of us would like to keep guys like you around a little longer, if not just smelling better. It's just that you're one of the good ones.

================

Standing at the JMan's grave: "If only he'd educated his thinking..."

[Ol' Bob]

With Medical Marijuana Laws expanding all over the country, the arguement of "legality" will soon be moot. .

I don't want to see any diabetics firing up their insulin during a round. No one else is using that crutch.

[JMan]

Would it be in bad taste if I termed that post idiotic?

Dick statement: "I don't need the permission of my group..." You may not NEED it, but you SHOULD ask for it!

Bonehead statement: "Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American"
a) What is a good American? Is there such a thing? And if so, smoking helps declare it?

I smoked in Leslie's group too, and the only thing that made me was a douche bag. An unhealthy douche bag. Just like when I smoked in 'Ol Bob's group. And all those others whose groups I smoked in.

Oh TL, your sense of humor has left the building...sad that as we age things fall away...hey wait, you're younger than I...bummer dude...:wink2:

[Ol' Bob]

If Gawain sez yer a dick and a bonehead... Well, itz gotta be true. Too bad he turned out to be a douche bag.

[General Scales]

With Medical Marijuana Laws expanding all over the country, the arguement of "legality" will soon be moot. What other reasons would we ban "substances" from events?
At a B-tier, many years ago, the TD brought up the "no alcohol or drug use" policy, stating it was a form of "artificial stress relief".
Half-way through the round, this same TD came up to my group, asking to bum a cigarette. I expressed my surprise at him being a smoker and he replied, "Only when I'm really stressed out."
He didn't appreciate my reminding him about his "artificial stress relief" speech.
Cigs OK, joints or beers not. Hmmmmm.

You know, you'd think that people in a tournament would want people to smoke pot and drink beer as much as possible. That way they have slowed reaction times and other such things. I know, for one, that if somebody in my group wants to get trashed, I'll let them. That way I can be assured that I don't finish dead last.

Anything to get ahead...

[emmarose]

Leslie and I were in a group a few years ago and I stayed on the right side of the wind and we had no worries. It's about respect, on both sides...but make no mistake, I smoke like a freaking chimney. I don't need the permission of my group provided I am curtious, and I refuse to apologize for paying more in taxes than other Americans. Smoking is one way I declare myself a good American; if you ask me to stop I question your commitment to this great nation.

So Sam, let's get together for a Tuesday evening round....

casual round, no, you don't need permission... but, correct me if i'm wrong, tournament round you do need the group's permission... j, i know you don't play many tourney's... perhaps this is just another reason why... and i have noticed just in the couple times that i have been around you that you in fact are quite courteous about... courteous enough that i even noted to myself, "oh, that's nice he stepped away... wish he'd a bummed me one, tho..." ;)

[JMan]

Well of course I'd ask, my point is that asking is not mandatory. And I thank you Em for noticing I am a courteous smoker, my vice should not annoy anyone. Believe me folks, all you drinkers out there, well drinking is as repugnant to me as smoking is to you; the smell, the behavior...please. But thanks Em. Which would you prefer? organic menthol, or Indonesian? I don't smoke domestic, too many additives, and way to low of a nicotine content.

Here's a question to get back on track...what about e-cigs folks? Any smoke you think you see is really steam...but try and convince a security guard at Wa. Sq.; talk about folks who have no sense of humor... But what about it folks...nicotine injection for us drug dependent folks...insert wink wink, nudge nudge here...no smoke for those of you happy to breathe all that good clean nitrogen/oxygen+.
:yawn:

[Ol' Bob]

Maybe I've been wrong. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vieilles_annonces/4040894337/)

More doctors smoke Camels... (http://lane.stanford.edu/tobacco/tobacco.html)

I can't get her T-zone out of my mind.

[HarrisonH]

Maybe I've been wrong. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vieilles_annonces/4040894337/)

More doctors smoke Camels... (http://lane.stanford.edu/tobacco/tobacco.html)

I can't get her T-zone out of my mind.

Goddam these advertisements are just so unreal!!! Makes me wonder how dumb and unfounded the advertisements of today will look in 60+ years... I'm lookin' at you, Levitra, Cialis, Extenze, etc....

[Ol' Bob]

Today's ads are New and Improved.

Here's an interesting read: http://www.prwatch.org/files/images/tsigfy_big.gif (http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy.html)

[ChUcK]

correct me if i'm wrong, tournament round you do need the group's permission

You are wrong.

[Scott]

801.01 E: E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.

Nothing is said about asking first.

[Adam Schneider]

Nothing is said about asking first.
But if you don't, you're a douchebag.

[ChUcK]

But if you don't, you're a douchebag.

Sigh. Again, wrong.

[Toby Puttzinski]

There should be a rule of no smoking within 25 feet of any tee pad or another player's lie. When you're at the tee of some of these tighter courses, there's no getting away from the smoke.
Also, quit throwing your damn cigarette butts on the fairways, around the greens, and near the tee pad!!!

Sure there's many smoking dg'ers that have a spot in their bag for their butts, (and I would venture to guess that if you're reading this and are a smoking dg'er, you respect the game/course/mother earth enough not to throw your butts on the ground) but for every one of those that 'pitches in', there's three more BUTT-heads using the park as their ashtray. For a while there, Mike Wagner(N Park veteran) would pick up hundreds of cigarette butts daily at North Park, only to face hundreds of reinforcements the next morning.... frustrating.

[CMC206]

That makes me so pissed when I see that shit and I'm a smoker.. Or was. I have just quit for almost 2 weeks.:headbang:

[Parks]

I think that the PDGA already has rules for courtesy violations and does not need to stack this on top of those rules.

[Lyounger]

801.01 E: E. Courtesy dictates that players who smoke should not allow their smoke to disturb other players. Smokers should extinguish their cigarettes and carry their cigarette butts to a trash can. Disposing of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground is littering.

Nothing is said about asking first.

At what point in a PDGA sanctioned event do the 801.01 Courtesy rules come into effect?

Is it after the two minute warning and untill the cards are turned in?

Is it anytime you are on the course the event is played at?

What if you are cussing and kicking your bag and breaking branches and littering between rounds? Do the courtesy rules apply at that point?

[Magilla]

This just in..... :shocked: :yay:

The PDGA has installed a BAN on Smoking during the 2011 PRO and AM World Championships.

Didnt think it would ever happen...cant say that Im sad to see it though.

http://www.pdga.com/worlds-smoking-ban

Discuss............

[TYVEK]

im not a smoker, i still think this is an absolute horrible idea. when the pdga starts making rules like this, it really makes me question weather i want to be a member of this organization. they DO NOT have my support in this action, and i hope MORE people will stand up and tell the pdga that they do not support this either.

[mine all mine]

I think this is a great idea. Why should I as a non-smoker have to figure out which way the wind is blowing so I know where to stand?

[TYVEK]

I think this is a great idea. Why should I as a non-smoker have to figure out which way the wind is blowing so I know where to stand?

well you could just enjoy the smell of the smoke. its not that bad smelling. the bad smell comes from after the smoking is done and you smell the stale smell all over the person.

smoking is a personal right that should not be squashed. its just smoke, and a few breathes of it here and there is not going to "poison you or kill you" as some has previsouly stated.

[Ol' Bob]

No one seems to take note that some people are quite sensitive to the toxins and varied carcinogens emitted in cigarette smoke to the point where it is painful for them. If someone thinks it smells okay, and they personally don't feel any discomfort, is their notion beyond question?

Listen, no one should have the right to toxify another's air. The shit is proven toxic. Any efforts to protect unwilling persons from having to breathe it should be applauded. Everyone is free to go where there is no one to complain and poison themselves and any other persons willing to be there if they so choose. If they had always done this, this wouldn't even be a question. Smokers should not be free to sort out those willing to breathe their smoke by smoking up the area and seeing who goes away.

http://smokefreeoregon.com/housing/img/SecondhandChemical.jpg

It's interesting that the legal smoke is highly toxic and the illegal smoke isn't.

[Magilla]

im not a smoker, i still think this is an absolute horrible idea. when the pdga starts making rules like this, it really makes me question weather i want to be a member of this organization. they DO NOT have my support in this action, and i hope MORE people will stand up and tell the pdga that they do not support this either.

More and more Parks in Cali are banning smoking already. Not sure if this is the case in Santa Cruz/Monterey. I will say that the courses there will be VERY dry in August and it may have ALOT to do with Fire Danger.

:cheers:

[Adam Schneider]

De La Veaga bans smoking during the fire season. Two other local courses (Aptos & Black Mouse) forbid smoking because they're on school grounds.

[The Ombudsman]

well you could just enjoy the smell of the smoke. its not that bad smelling. the bad smell comes from after the smoking is done and you smell the stale smell all over the person.

smoking is a personal right that should not be squashed. its just smoke, and a few breathes of it here and there is not going to "poison you or kill you" as some has previsouly stated.

This is an asinine comment. To me, smoke smells horrible. Tobacco smoke is the most irritating thing for me on the course. (besides my putting) Especially when some righteous asshole decides to light up on the tee box.
What about my personal right not to have to smell it?
and why should someone have the advantage to 'calm down' with a tareen after a bad hole? I would love to burn a fattie when I want to forget about that last hole but that is not an option for me in tourney play.

[mine all mine]

well you could just enjoy the smell of the smoke. its not that bad smelling. the bad smell comes from after the smoking is done and you smell the stale smell all over the person.

smoking is a personal right that should not be squashed. its just smoke, and a few breathes of it here and there is not going to "poison you or kill you" as some has previously stated.

I'm going to act like that comment was the stupidest thing that was ever said and laugh about it!

Smoking is a personal right, but like the ombudsman pointed out, what about my right to not have to put up with that putrid smell that is cigarette smoke?

Your belief of personal freedom (or right) is forgotten with this subject because you alienate a good portion of the populous that does not like to smell cigarette smoke. We can't just choose to not smell it, it is in the air and pretty much unavoidable even when in the great outdoors!

[olydiscgolf]

This is an asinine comment. To me, smoke smells horrible. Tobacco smoke is the most irritating thing for me on the course. (besides my putting) Especially when some righteous asshole decides to light up on the tee box.
What about my personal right not to have to smell it?
and why should someone have the advantage to 'calm down' with a tareen after a bad hole? I would love to burn a fattie when I want to forget about that last hole but that is not an option for me in tourney play.

You too have the option to "calm down" with a "tareen". This isn't an argument about using banned substances, its about using a legal substance and the social courtesy that goes along with it.

-righteous asshole

[The Ombudsman]

You too have the option to "calm down" with a "tareen". This isn't an argument about using banned substances, its about using a legal substance and the social courtesy that goes along with it.

-righteous asshole

You make my point for me. Thanks.

Nobody should be able to use artificial means of adjusting their metabolism or anxiety in tournament play (IMNSHO).
That is fair for everyone.

[olydiscgolf]

You make my point for me. Thanks.

Nobody should be able to use artificial means of adjusting their metabolism or anxiety in tournament play (IMNSHO).
That is fair for everyone.

The "fair" part, is the fact that you have the option.

[Yardbird]

Alcohol is a legal substance and is banned from tournament play.

Should a player be allowed to carry a flask of whisky so they could take a few sips when a bad shot occurs? That would be another option to "calm down" with a "tareen".

Where's the fairness in that? Currently, alcohol is banned and smoking is OK.

The only real difference is that when alcohol gets abused a player then becomes a liability to the course and the tournament experience. But, of course, to some people the non-courteous smokers have the same end result.

[EnigmaSquad]

IMO until the PDGA creates and enforces these "professionalism rules", they will not be taken seriously as a "professional sport". Some may not care where the sport is headed in terms of its public acceptance and I respect their desire for the sport, but I personally would like to see it taken more seriously by the general public.
Although I do not participate in said activities, I still enjoy playing this sport with many people who "relax" in different ways and to varying degrees. But I resent the fact that when I mention I play discgolf to my "non-golfer" friends they assume that I do. I believe this is a direct result of the reputation this sport has among the general public-fairly given or not.:headbang:

[CMC206]

I see this gaining momentum. As DG events become broadcasted on the net I really think that TV is not far behind. I'm sorry but players smoking will not help the image of the sport. I smoked for 20 years and recently quit. I'm hoping this helps my game. I don't see it being that big of a deal to play a round and go smoke/drink/dope yourself silly off the course during the break. I would be curious what Dave Feldberg thinks about this. He smokes like a chimney...

[Huk'nGeiks]

I would be curious what Dave Feldberg thinks about this. He smokes like a chimney...

Someone may have mentioned this in the thread earlier but the PDGA board members Avery Jenkins and Juliana Korver motioned to ban smoking at the 2011 worlds and it passed with 5 of 6 board members voting for it. Feldy was one of those voting for the ban...

I also wonder if he sees this as a necessary step to legitimizing our "game" as a sport to the public

[Rebecca]

I have personally never had a cigarette to my mouth and I don't have anything against smokers. BUT --- I continue to fight for my life every day because of second hand smoke for 8 years now. In the beginning, trying to convince my doctors that I had never smoked was stressful in itself. The doctors wanted to remove my voice box and start extensive chemo because of stupid smoke. People that say second hand smoke doesn't harm anyone need to walk in my shoes for a while. My kids and family have suffered because of second hand smoke. A pack of cigarettes has the same amount of chemicals as a gallon can of paint.
I fought for over 4 years for the Smokefree Workplace law and I am armed with all the facts that you need to know.
Everyone has their opinion about smoking but unfortunately I have the facts and not by choice.
Like I said, I have nothing against smokers, just the tobacco companies who continue to put addictive additives in the cigarettes so you won't quit.

[The Ombudsman]

Tobacco is legal heroin and the tobacco companies are legalized pushers.
Is that putrid tareen really that tasty? Or are you just ashamed to admit you are the tobacco company's bitch?

[TYVEK]

i can understand both sides to the argument about smoking VS. not smoking, and i have my opionion. after a couple days of thinking i came to the conclusion that i would have accepted this sort of "ruling" better IF the pdga would have let its members vote on it.

Maybe if they plan on trying to get this passed for every tournament instead of just worlds they will ask the members what they want. this is a big topic and i think it would be a much better decision on the pdga's part if they asked the players what they wanted instead of just putting it out there. that would seem the fairest to me.

WE ARE MEMBERS, WHY DONT WE HAVE SOME INPUT ON ISSUES?? they are providing a service to us players so they should try and find out what the majority of players want. this goes for more than just the smoking issue, it would go for any major changes to tournament rules and such...

[Rebecca]

In reality----the members did vote on this. We voted for the people we wanted on the board of directors to handle decisions like these.
If the PDGA let all the members vote on decisions, we would never get anything accomplished. We have put our trust in the individuals that we voted for.

[LegoRules]

In reality----the members did vote on this. We voted for the people we wanted on the board of directors to handle decisions like these.
If the PDGA let all the members vote on decisions, we would never get anything accomplished. We have put our trust in the individuals that we voted for.

Bingo! :yay:

[Magilla]

i can understand both sides to the argument about smoking VS. not smoking, and i have my opionion. after a couple days of thinking i came to the conclusion that i would have accepted this sort of "ruling" better IF the pdga would have let its members vote on it.



It isnt the something that a vote by ANYONE could have changed. :slapface:

Smoking is BANNED in ALL Santa Cruz Parks during the Summer anyway due to Fire Danger. So the cards were already dealt in this case. Im not 100% positive about the reast of the Monterey Bay but it seems likely they also have this policy.

:cheers:

[Scott]

In reality----the members did vote on this. We voted for the people we wanted on the board of directors to handle decisions like these.
If the PDGA let all the members vote on decisions, we would never get anything accomplished. We have put our trust in the individuals that we voted for.

I agree 100%. Very nicely said.

[TYVEK]

In reality----the members did vote on this. We voted for the people we wanted on the board of directors to handle decisions like these.
If the PDGA let all the members vote on decisions, we would never get anything accomplished. We have put our trust in the individuals that we voted for.

i must disagree with this. i wasnt talking about small changes, those can deffinately be dealt with by the board. this is a change that deffinately effects a VERY large player base, so it would be better to get the players opinion instead of just a few individuals. so it wouldnt be that big of a hassle to put out a vote because of the nature of the issue.

[Rebecca]

i must disagree with this. i wasnt talking about small changes, those can deffinately be dealt with by the board. this is a change that deffinately effects a VERY large player base, so it would be better to get the players opinion instead of just a few individuals. so it wouldnt be that big of a hassle to put out a vote because of the nature of the issue.

I'm sure they are getting plenty of members opinions right now. BUT this is a very big PDGA event so they have every right to let the board decide. Both the TD's were also asked their opinions and the board voted.
Members do have a say but they have to actively become involved. We can't change the vote but we can become proactive when it comes to elections next time and really study the candidates.

[EnigmaSquad]

i must disagree with this. i wasnt talking about small changes, those can deffinately be dealt with by the board. this is a change that deffinately effects a VERY large player base, so it would be better to get the players opinion instead of just a few individuals. so it wouldnt be that big of a hassle to put out a vote because of the nature of the issue.

If I said I think the American people should vote on the National budget instead of our elected officials, am I not making the same argument?

[Matt B.]

i can understand both sides to the argument about smoking VS. not smoking, and i have my opionion. after a couple days of thinking i came to the conclusion that i would have accepted this sort of "ruling" better IF the pdga would have let its members vote on it.

Maybe if they plan on trying to get this passed for every tournament instead of just worlds they will ask the members what they want. this is a big topic and i think it would be a much better decision on the pdga's part if they asked the players what they wanted instead of just putting it out there. that would seem the fairest to me.

WE ARE MEMBERS, WHY DONT WE HAVE SOME INPUT ON ISSUES?? they are providing a service to us players so they should try and find out what the majority of players want. this goes for more than just the smoking issue, it would go for any major changes to tournament rules and such...

Yes, let's vote on everything. That way we will never come to any decisions.

And how can you say you have no input on issues? I think if the entire membership voted, smokers would probably not like the outcome.

[TYVEK]

Yes, let's vote on everything. That way we will never come to any decisions.

And how can you say you have no input on issues? I think if the entire membership voted, smokers would probably not like the outcome.

well first i never said we should vote on everything, somebody else already pointed out the fact that nothing would get accomplished that way.

and yes i tend to agree that if every member did vote on the smoking/nonsmoking issue that the smokers would probably get the short end, but the point is that EVERYBODY would be able to have their voice heard and the decision wouldnt be made by a few people. instead the decision would be made by thousands of people. the decision would be made by the PLAYERS/MEMBERS.

I am not talking about the World championships, just to be clear. that decision has been made. and as somebody already pointed out, that decision was ultimately made by the local parks regulation about no smoking in their parks. even if the pdga didnt ban smoking, it would still be banned at worlds because of the local parks laws.
I am talking about a possible future ban on smoking that would cover any pdga sanctioned event.

[Matt B.]

well first i never said we should vote on everything, somebody else already pointed out the fact that nothing would get accomplished that way.

and yes i tend to agree that if every member did vote on the smoking/nonsmoking issue that the smokers would probably get the short end, but the point is that EVERYBODY would be able to have their voice heard and the decision wouldnt be made by a few people. instead the decision would be made by thousands of people. the decision would be made by the PLAYERS/MEMBERS.

I am not talking about the World championships, just to be clear. that decision has been made. and as somebody already pointed out, that decision was ultimately made by the local parks regulation about no smoking in their parks. even if the pdga didnt ban smoking, it would still be banned at worlds because of the local parks laws.
I am talking about a possible future ban on smoking that would cover any pdga sanctioned event.

Yes, I was being sarcastic about voting on everything. Point being, it's easy to say "Hey, I should have had a vote!" when a decision bugs you but it's just not how organizations like PDGA get things done. That's why we elect a board, and that's where we get a vote.

And smoking has been banned at AM Worlds too, in NY where I don't believe fire danger or parks rules are a factor. And you do have a chance to influence any future PDGA policy regarding smoking. Just be a member and let them know.

[DoubleDees]

Ciggs smell bad

Farting smells bad

Yes i have seen someone warned and stroked for farting in a round.

[DoubleDees]

religion stinks...
we should ban religion on the golf course...
I dont want to hear your prayers...
The next time you say thank god I will warn you...

[General Scales]

religion stinks...
we should ban religion on the golf course...
I dont want to hear your prayers...
The next time you say thank god I will warn you...

Hah! Thats great. Does this mean anybody caught in between the rounds in the sanctity of their own vehicles will face a disqualification because smoking is banned? It's one thing to say you cant smoke on the course or at tourney central (which even being a smoker, I have no problem with). The line for me is drawn when they tell me that I can't smoke in my own car. That would just be ridiculous.

As it was said before, I wonder how Feldberg is going to handle that since he really does smoke like a frickin chimney. Although, if I understand it right, he voted for the ban itself...

[Scott]

Hah! Thats great. Does this mean anybody caught in between the rounds in the sanctity of their own vehicles will face a disqualification because smoking is banned? It's one thing to say you cant smoke on the course or at tourney central (which even being a smoker, I have no problem with). The line for me is drawn when they tell me that I can't smoke in my own car. That would just be ridiculous.

As it was said before, I wonder how Feldberg is going to handle that since he really does smoke like a frickin chimney. Although, if I understand it right, he voted for the ban itself...

No, it does not. It means that you cannot smoke during rounds.

[General Scales]

No, it does not. It means that you cannot smoke during rounds.

Well good! I have no issue with that. Any smoker that can't last two-five hours without having a drag has an issue. Sure I have smoked during stressful tournament rounds before. However, I can also quell that rage fueled need with things like a slice of nicotine gum if needs be.

Plus, I've noticed that when I smoke during a round, I always end up doing worse. Probably the fatigue that smoking bestows upon the body.

[Lyounger]

I appreciate all the people I've played golf with that are courteous to not let their smoke interfere with me or other players. I especially appreciate those players who continue this courtesy before and in between rounds and do not light up right next to me. Especially when they see me trying my best to find a smoke free area close enough to hear what's going on in a meeting or dashing in to take a look at the scoreboard.

Gawain and Jman are definitely included in this group of courteous players.

:yay:You all have my sincere thanks.

[DoubleDees]

I appreciate all the people I've played golf with that are courteous to not let their smoke interfere with me or other players. I especially appreciate those players who continue this courtesy before and in between rounds and do not light up right next to me. Especially when they see me trying my best to find a smoke free area close enough to hear what's going on in a meeting or dashing in to take a look at the scoreboard.

Gawain and Jman are definitely included in this group of courteous players.

:yay:You all have my sincere thanks.

honestly when i read this post Leslie it was you that I thought of. I do my best not to smoke near you because I know it bothers you. If people spoke up about it bothering them most smokers would be courteous about it, I would hope... My apologies if I have bothered you with my smoking before :(

[TYVEK]

Hah! Thats great. Does this mean anybody caught in between the rounds in the sanctity of their own vehicles will face a disqualification because smoking is banned? It's one thing to say you cant smoke on the course or at tourney central (which even being a smoker, I have no problem with). The line for me is drawn when they tell me that I can't smoke in my own car. That would just be ridiculous.

As it was said before, I wonder how Feldberg is going to handle that since he really does smoke like a frickin chimney. Although, if I understand it right, he voted for the ban itself...

in all the tournaments i have watched Dave play in, i have never once seen him light up a smoke until it was after the round was over. i know he likes to keep himself as professinal as possible on the course, so this probably has something to do with it.

[General Scales]

in all the tournaments i have watched Dave play in, i have never once seen him light up a smoke until it was after the round was over. i know he likes to keep himself as professinal as possible on the course, so this probably has something to do with it.

That is a very good point actually. In every video I have seen of him and the three times I've actually seen him play in person, he's never smoked. It was always after the rounds. I wonder if people purposely start playing slow so he can't get his fix.

[Lyounger]

honestly when i read this post Leslie it was you that I thought of. I do my best not to smoke near you because I know it bothers you. If people spoke up about it bothering them most smokers would be courteous about it, I would hope... My apologies if I have bothered you with my smoking before :(

You've always been extremely concientious and courteous. I appreciate it very much :-)

I've only rarely had someone tell me to stick it if their smoke was following me around. I agree, most people don't want to purposefully or negligently hurt other people.

[ChUcK]

in all the tournaments i have watched Dave play in, i have never once seen him light up a smoke until it was after the round was over. i know he likes to keep himself as professinal as possible on the course, so this probably has something to do with it.

Are you sure you were watching Feldy, Orion? :wink2:

Every time I have followed his card around he has smoked a bunch of cigarettes during the round.

Not trying to be argumentative, but we are definitely talking about two different dudes if you didn't see him smoking cigarettes.

[TYVEK]

there is one thing that hasnt been brought up yet. does the ban include those electronic cigarettes, or just the real thing? the electronic ones seem to be gaining momentum. are they an acceptable replacement in the minds of the people that dont smoke or are adversly effected by cigarette smoke?

[Garro]

no smoking during tournament rounds! these days its a no-brainer. sorry smokers, but you can't smoke around other people at public places--its standard procedure. get use to it on the golf course, because the day has to come when its not allowed.

[Sam]

Outside... in a park... no smoking around other people... standard procedure?

Good to know the Smoking Gestapo is alive and well in the Pacific Northwest. I, for one, try to be a courteous smoker. Telling me what I can and can't do with my own body - as long as I am not bothering others - will get you the middle finger salute.

[Rebecca]

I have to say ditto to leslie's post. People have been very courteous with smoking around me. That includes you Sam:)

[General Scales]

Outside... in a park... no smoking around other people... standard procedure?

Good to know the Smoking Gestapo is alive and well in the Pacific Northwest. I, for one, try to be a courteous smoker. Telling me what I can and can't do with my own body - as long as I am not bothering others - will get you the middle finger salute.

Ditto. My favorite thing is when there is nobody around me and I hear a throat clearing. Turn around and there is somebody behind me telling me that smoking is dangerous. Well I didn't know that :headbang:. Let me put out my cigarette and write a letter to the tobacco companies:yawn:.

It's one thing to not smoke around a bunch of people, which I respect. I hate it when people light up while I'm eating. It's another thing to seek me out while I'm smoking and then claim I'm being a nuisance. That too will be a middle finger salute. :cool2:

[Ol' Bob]

are they an acceptable replacement in the minds of the people that dont smoke or are adversly effected by cigarette smoke?

I have been around them a very little. I had no discomfort from them. Another plus is no butts left behind too.

[Tim]

I have been around them a very little. I had no discomfort from them. Another plus is no butts left behind too.

And if you only want a couple drags, that's all you have to take. And you don't have to worry about wind. And you don't have to worry about crushing your smokes. And you don't have to worry about burning down the course. And you can get all sorts of crazy flavors if you want.

Whether or not ecigs are less harmful than regular cigs is debatable, but they're way more convenient for golfing. I used one for a while in the process of quitting, and I really liked it. Cheaper in the long run too. Really a win-win for smokers and non-smokers alike.

[Sam]

I have to say ditto to leslie's post. People have been very courteous with smoking around me. That includes you Sam:)

And with one fell swoop my "tough guy" persona is revealed a fraud... :)

[Toby Puttzinski]

FREE help Quitting: (free patches, nicotine gum, coaching/support)

http://www.quitnow.net/oregon/ (www.quitnow.net/oregon/)



http://www.doh.wa.gov/Tobacco/quit/quit.htm

[jeverett]

there is one thing that hasnt been brought up yet. does the ban include those electronic cigarettes, or just the real thing? the electronic ones seem to be gaining momentum. are they an acceptable replacement in the minds of the people that dont smoke or are adversly effected by cigarette smoke?

The ban for Worlds includes e-cigarettes and chewing tobacco too. The PDGA clarified that point recently:

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

[Tim]

The ban for Worlds includes e-cigarettes and chewing tobacco too. The PDGA clarified that point recently:

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

This reminds me of a time in middle school, where we were too loud in the cafeteria and teachers from neighboring classrooms complained. They tried to quiet us down in different ways, but none of them worked. Eventually it got so bad that the principal ordered us to have silent lunches, where anyone who talked got written up for detention. My friends and I, not wanting to get in trouble, communicated with a rudimentary, yet perfectly silent, sign language. The principal thought that was circumventing the rules, and gave us detention.

Banning smoking makes sense in that it bothers other players (and can be harmful to them), and there's the risk of starting a forest fire. E-cigs and chewing tobacco don't have either of those issues. Banning them is an asinine move--all it does is prevent smokers from using an alternative that doesn't bother anyone.

[JMan]

let's face it, legislating vice has never worked...and we won't even mention the amount of tax dollars that will shift from cigs to...what, diapers, milk...once they convince all of us to quit...

I love those folks who approach me, they weren't near me originally mind you, and they lay into me about how my second hand smoke is worse for them than the primary is to me...well seems like I made the right choice.

[Jim J]

I don't think the PDGA banned smoking out of concern for the health of its members.

I think they did it mainly to avoid sending the wrong message to impressionable youth. (Yes, some DGers are, in fact, role models.)

And I don't think anyone in their right mind, smoker or not, would like to see more kids encouraged to light up because they've seen lots of cool DGers do it (and we are cool, by the way).

So smokers, quit thinking about yourselves and think of the kids.

Anyone have a niece, nephew, son, or daughter that they'd like to see start puffing?

Anyone?

[Ol' Bob]

http://sharing.wwlp.com/sharewood/photo/2011/04/04/tobacco_20110404114229_320_240.JPG
Like dis, kids.

[Adam Schneider]

Banning smoking makes sense in that it bothers other players (and can be harmful to them), and there's the risk of starting a forest fire. E-cigs and chewing tobacco don't have either of those issues.
Chewing tobacco is disgusting. Are the chewers going to carry portable spittoons with them?

It does seem odd that they'd ban electronic cigarettes though; isn't that basically like banning nicotine patches or gum? I suppose it speaks to the role-model thing.

[JMan]

I don't think the PDGA banned smoking out of concern for the health of its members.

I think they did it mainly to avoid sending the wrong message to impressionable youth. (Yes, some DGers are, in fact, role models.)

And I don't think anyone in their right mind, smoker or not, would like to see more kids encouraged to light up because they've seen lots of cool DGers do it (and we are cool, by the way).

So smokers, quit thinking about yourselves and think of the kids.

Anyone have a niece, nephew, son, or daughter that they'd like to see start puffing?

Anyone?

Hell yea, help keep paying those taxes. If those tax dollars dry up they will need to find another like product to tax, so...used predominately by middle to lower income, used and/or bought daily/weekly, yep diapers and baby forumula.

[afroflow]

Either make smoking totally illegal, or stop banning individuals rights just because you find yourself effected by it. i dont smoke; i often find myself dodging friends smoke while we play. they are over 18, have a bad habit and love every inhale. i also find people who chew gum and try and hold a conversation repulsive, but i'm not on here trying to ostracize them and their right.

at the professional tournaments sure, all professional athletes have a ethical code of conduct built into their contract. but a tuesday two's? com'on

[Scott]

at the professional tournaments sure, all professional athletes have a ethical code of conduct built into their contract. but a tuesday two's? com'on
The reason that smoking is not allowed at Tuesday Twos is because there is a smoking ban in all Hillsboro parks.

[JMan]

The reason that smoking is not allowed at Tuesday Twos is because there is a smoking ban in all Hillsboro parks.

One that I break every chance I get, afterall part of the tax I pay for smokes help fund those parks, smoking in the park is just my way of saying, hey I paid for this park too...

[blu666z]

Unfortunately, they won't see that. It'll just be another strike against disc golf @ Orchard.

[Scott]

One that I break every chance I get, afterall part of the tax I pay for smokes help fund those parks, smoking in the park is just my way of saying, hey I paid for this park too...

With any luck, you'll be one of the lucky ones that picks up a $150 fine. Maybe they'll use that to fund the park as well.

[Matt B.]

One that I break every chance I get, afterall part of the tax I pay for smokes help fund those parks, smoking in the park is just my way of saying, hey I paid for this park too...

And some of your taxes pay for the roads and if you don't feel like driving the speed limit...and some of your taxes paid for a park where leashes on dogs are required and if you feel like letting your dog run....and some of your taxes planted the trees in that park that knocked your disc down and if you feel like cutting what you want.....great philosophy!

[Lyounger]

The reduction of smoking at tourney central at the LCO was tremendous. Not sure if folks saw the little signs the TDs put up or if reading this forum put the thought in more people's heads...regardless...I wanted to say a very big THANK YOU to those of you who refrained from smoking in the immediate area around tourney central. It made a huge difference to me and several people commented on how considerate it was.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!

[JMan]

Unfortunately, they won't see that. It'll just be another strike against disc golf @ Orchard.

like I spend much time at Orchard. And I would love to push that argument in court, an unjust law is not worth obeying, oh sorry that was India in the 40s.

[Will of Doom]

And with one fell swoop my "tough guy" persona is revealed a fraud... :)

It'll take you a long time to get back to that "tough guy" status now. Best to be working hard at it. :wink2:

[JMan]

It'll take you a long time to get back to that "tough guy" status now. Best to be working hard at it. :wink2:

try smoking, smokers look tough...

















i can do this all day......