Epic Illegal?

[General Scales]

Did the PDGA outlaw the use of the Aerobee Epic this year in tournament play?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Not that I know of. Where did you see that?

[General Scales]

That is what I had heard. I thought I had read it somewhere on one of the many disc golf blogs around here. Perhaps it was a consideration? Question is, how is it even legal? It doesn't conform to a lot of the standards.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Epic was "grandfathered" before the new standards were in updated that made it fall outside of specs. I post the official approved disc list so if it's still on there, then it's legal: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-approved-discs-pdf

[sillybizz]

Epic illegal? More like Epic fail. :D

[EnigmaSquad]

Epic is Legal. New regulations make a disc illegal if it has a non-concentic rim (not centered) but the Epic was grandfathered. Therefore it is on the list that was previously posted.
This is my understanding anyway...:)

[HarrisonH]

I love how in Disc Golf a disc produced/added to the PDGA approved list is considered "grandfathered" from 2003... or am I missing something?

[jshrack]

I love how in Disc Golf a disc produced/added to the PDGA approved list is considered "grandfathered" from 2003... or am I missing something?

Huh? :confused:

[captain jack]

Huh? :confused:


The Epic was approved by the PDGA way back in 'ought three.
Ancient times, like the Mesopotamian era.

I remember back then, Innova used to have this nice candy plastic, I think it was called C.E., or something.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The disc standards that made the Epic fall outside the guidelines were updated effective Jan 1, 2008. So all discs approved prior to that date were grandfathered that fell outside any of the new specs. However, I think the Epic may have been one of the only discs that fell outside the new specs at that time.

[General Scales]

The disc standards that made the Epic fall outside the guidelines were updated effective Jan 1, 2008. So all discs approved prior to that date were grandfathered that fell outside any of the new specs. However, I think the Epic may have been one of the only discs that fell outside the new specs at that time.

So what we are saying is that we have a disc that is illegal by today standards yet isn't because it was made before the rule change? This is ludicrous:slapface:. That should also mean that the turbo putter should be legal since it WAS legal till the PDGA took away it's approval.

[Chuck Kennedy]

So what we are saying is that we have a disc that is illegal by today standards yet isn't because it was made before the rule change? This is ludicrous. That should also mean that the turbo putter should be legal since it WAS legal till the PDGA took away it's approval.
Of course you played right into the follow up. The Turbo Putt was mistakenly approved by the Tech group due to a more liberal perception of what a "circular disc" meant. The Board determined that a circle could not have scallops and really needed to be a circle as stated in the specs existing at that time. The updated specs after that incident simply made that more clear. In addition, approvals were moved to the Board rather than just the Tech group to make sure similar misinterpretations didn't occur in the future. The Turbo shouldn't have been approved and that issue was resolved appropriately with the manufacturer.

The Board has every right to grandfather products that were made before the standards changed in the same way you can't be charged by a new law placed in effect after you did something that was legal at the time. There are targets that are currently grandfathered as Championship targets that do not yet meet all of the standards updated in February 2009. However, the specs on these targets and the Epic cannot be modified by the manufacturers without the modified versions meeting the new specs.

[Ol' Bob]

Is the Epic just an eccentricity?

[General Scales]

Of course you played right into the follow up. The Turbo Putt was mistakenly approved by the Tech group due to a more liberal perception of what a "circular disc" meant. The Board determined that a circle could not have scallops and really needed to be a circle as stated in the specs existing at that time. The updated specs after that incident simply made that more clear. In addition, approvals were moved to the Board rather than just the Tech group to make sure similar misinterpretations didn't occur in the future. The Turbo shouldn't have been approved and that issue was resolved appropriately with the manufacturer.

The Board has every right to grandfather products that were made before the standards changed in the same way you can't be charged by a new law placed in effect after you did something that was legal at the time. There are targets that are currently grandfathered as Championship targets that do not yet meet all of the standards updated in February 2009. However, the specs on these targets and the Epic cannot be modified by the manufacturers without the modified versions meeting the new specs.

Well, that actually makes a lot of sense. I don't use either disc so it never bothers me. Thank you Chuck for the clarifications. :yay:

[Chuck Kennedy]

Is the Epic just an eccentricity?
Definitely off-centric...

[jshrack]

I post the official approved disc list so if it's still on there, then it's legal: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-approved-discs-pdf

I don't think you could have been more clear... thank you!:trophy:

[Uhlman]

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

[Ol' Bob]

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

Someone with a strong thumb, a big arm, and a good rotator cuff.

[barbikes]

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

I happen to have the answer to that question. This guy:

http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/41218/2011

Notice his current rating is 970.

I was lucky enough to get to play a round with him at DeLaveaga about three years ago. He carries several Epics and can throw them 400 feet plus using an overhand throw similar to throwing a baseball. In fact he used to be a baseball pitcher. It seems that a lot of guys that like the Epic used to be baseball pitchers. He would throw it high just like he was throwing in from deep outfield to homeplate and it would corkscrew about three times and then pull out and glide in steep, fast, and straight right at the basket. It was an incredible thing to see. He also swears by the Aerobie Arrow for putting. All I can say about that is he is a much better putter than I am!

[Toby Puttzinski]

I'd say it's the Indian, not the arrow.

[jdinteg]

I bought one of those at Fredmeyer about a year ago, threw for 1-week, then took it back with no regrets. I'm sure it is a great disc for someone, but not me. I can throw my Wraith or Xcaliber twice as far as the epic with a thumber/tomohawk. I say who cares if they approved it or grandfathered in, the person who throws it well could probably do better with an overstable Innova, Discraft, or other well known brand anyway. I would consider that disc a detriment to their game, over an edge. But I'm sure someone has a cousin, who's brother in law's mother threw it 400' once. :-) Can someone name a local, well known player, who swears by this disc? I would love to hear what they have to say, and see them throw this disc 400-450'.

[EnigmaSquad]

I am a local player from Bremerton, but I don't know about the well known part...
Anyway, I have an Epic in my bag and I use it for down hill big right turns such as Fairgrounds #1 and Whatever number at Steilly has the big mando tree directly in front of you which you have to go left of, but the basket is about 300 feet to the right.
As has been said before, if you throw it similar to a Hammer throw it will flip over twice, stall out at about 100 feet in the air, take a hard right turn and then glide for 250-300 feet depending on how you threw it before it stalled out.
I don't have a decent enough Annie shot (or monster forehand) to make the same shot otherwise.
If nothing else, it is just fun to watch! Especially if people did not see that I pulled that specific disc out of my bag.

[ryanajanes]

some of the coolest looking shots i have seen have been from people throwing Epic's. I found one and couldnt throw the stupid thing. Funny my friend who uses one used to be a baseball pitcher also lol.

[Flash]

I bought one of those at Fredmeyer about a year ago, threw for 1-week, then took it back with no regrets. I'm sure it is a great disc for someone, but not me. I can throw my Wraith or Xcaliber twice as far as the epic with a thumber/tomohawk. I say who cares if they approved it or grandfathered in, the person who throws it well could probably do better with an overstable Innova, Discraft, or other well known brand anyway. I would consider that disc a detriment to their game, over an edge. But I'm sure someone has a cousin, who's brother in law's mother threw it 400' once. :-) Can someone name a local, well known player, who swears by this disc? I would love to hear what they have to say, and see them throw this disc 400-450'.

Try Lane Mason PDGA# 11935, maybe you have heard of him. He is a local pro and a 400-450 foot throw by him would be a let down! Sure he can throw a lot of other cool discs and he putts really well, but he likes to dabble in the epic. If you don't know him ask around and you might find a youtube video or two.

Just because this disc is not the disc of choice by most people does not mean we should pass judgment on its use.

[The Course Bro]

I'd say it's the Indian, not the arrow.

Dude, try the Epic thumber with any other disc and you won't get the crazy flip and FLY like the Epic.
Also the Arrow is well named, stable to over stable disc but put in on a line with enough spin and it's like it's on rails. Or a frozen rope. Or a rail gun. Or some thing that flys really really really really really straight. Super dope sidearm approach disc. Gave mine to a friend after he shot a 120' plus mid STRAIGHT into the basket. Crazy cool technical engineering behind both those discs. Their plastic gets trashed really fast on sharps but I think I'm going to try and find a max weight one somewhere.

[jdinteg]

I have to eat some Crow here. I was at lunchtime in PDX. Someone was throwing an Epic, and he was from the Astoria area. He threw this big thumber in to the right when the hole was left and I just about said a snide remark. Then I watched that disc cork screw in the air, stall, then turn LEFT! It then glided in to just by the basket for a birdie. The light came on and I realized I could throw a thumber for a tomahawk flight with that goofy disc. I bought another one and wrote my name on it to force myself to learn it and not take it back this time. I do not like this disc for a standard back hand or forehand, but it is magical for me as a thumber since I cannot throw a tomahawk to save my life.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Dude, try the Epic thumber with any other disc and you won't get the crazy flip and FLY like the Epic.
Also the Arrow is well named, stable to over stable disc but put in on a line with enough spin and it's like it's on rails. Or a frozen rope. Or a rail gun. Or some thing that flys really really really really really straight. Super dope sidearm approach disc. Gave mine to a friend after he shot a 120' plus mid STRAIGHT into the basket. Crazy cool technical engineering behind both those discs. Their plastic gets trashed really fast on sharps but I think I'm going to try and find a max weight one somewhere.


I never said that the Epic can't be thrown super far, or be a useful tool to some-- in fact I didn't even mention it. The furthest thumber that I've ever thrown was with an Epic- was injured, so playing RH I threw a flip-n-fly thumber that parked hole 7 at Seatac. Cool looking 'cheater' shot, but way too unpredictable to ever make the bag in my opinion.

The arrow, on the other hand, is anything but a 'super dope' disc IMHO. Contrary to popular belief, if you hand someone a disc and they make a good throw, it does not automatically make that a good disc or the right disc for that person. If you made a top ten list for worst ever pdga approved discs, the arrow would be right up there with the turbo putter in my book.