Alton Baker Park DGC?

[jeverett]

Well, the last rumor I heard (back in September) was that the Alton Baker Park course might finally get installed in January 2011.. anyone happen to know anything about the status of getting the course installed? :) I'd dearly love to see that happen.. imo a full 18-hole course within the Eugene/Springfield limits is a huge priority.

[Matt B.]

Well, the last rumor I heard (back in September) was that the Alton Baker Park course might finally get installed in January 2011.. anyone happen to know anything about the status of getting the course installed? :) I'd dearly love to see that happen.. imo a full 18-hole course within the Eugene/Springfield limits is a huge priority.

According to the City planner in charge of the process, things have not changed, there is some delay due to permitting and changes to a plan, but they have not backed away from the idea. The original timeframe we were given in March of 2010 was 6-18 months. According to various rumors and things you hear in various places with varying levels of credibility from very credible to crazy talk, the owners of the Cuthbert amphitheatre don't want it to happen, the City has decided not to do it, and it'll never happen.

Just another day in Eugene. On the positive side, with the addition of 200 acres of parkland at East Ridgeline approved by the City council (to be named Suzanne Arlie Community Park) but not yet completed, and the concept of disc golf at that location already planned and endorsed, it seems likely that we will have a course there in say......10-50 years.

So hang in there Eugene discers.....we haven't had a new course in thirty years, but that shouldn't stretch to much past eighty years before a new one gets installed!

[jeverett]

According to the City planner in charge of the process, things have not changed, there is some delay due to permitting and changes to a plan, but they have not backed away from the idea. The original timeframe we were given in March of 2010 was 6-18 months. According to various rumors and things you hear in various places with varying levels of credibility from very credible to crazy talk, the owners of the Cuthbert amphitheatre don't want it to happen, the City has decided not to do it, and it'll never happen.

Just another day in Eugene. On the positive side, with the addition of 200 acres of parkland at East Ridgeline approved by the City council (to be named Suzanne Arlie Community Park) but not yet completed, and the concept of disc golf at that location already planned and endorsed, it seems likely that we will have a course there in say......10-50 years.

So hang in there Eugene discers.....we haven't had a new course in thirty years, but that shouldn't stretch to much past eighty years before a new one gets installed!

Hi Matt,

Yeah, I'd also heard rumors about complications due to the Cuthbert Ampitheatre, particularly related to the fact they park cars on what would be ~4 holes of the course (based on the layout used at the Winter Series) during concerts and such. Can some kind of compromise be reached over that? The course could certainly be closed or those specific baskets pulled during Cuthbert events.. although that would of course require someone actually doing that job, as well as storing the baskets somewhere for the evening. :P

Have you heard anything further about the course potentially being pay-to-play? I, for one, would totally support that, as long as a reasonable yearly pass were available. Disc golf isn't zero-maintenance, and if a course could demonstrate self-sustainability I think it might give the city more incentive.

[Jim J]

Have you heard anything further about the course potentially being pay-to-play? I, for one, would totally support that, as long as a reasonable yearly pass were available. Disc golf isn't zero-maintenance, and if a course could demonstrate self-sustainability I think it might give the city more incentive.

If everything proceeds as planned, the city will issue a Request for Proposal to select a concessionaire to run the course on a pay-to-play basis. They're still waiting for final approval, but it's looking surprisingly good. We could be playing out there in June.

It'd be interesting to know who's going to submit a proposal.

Next planning meeting is 2/23.

[weaktit]

For those interested: February 23rd at Hilyard Community Center, 2580 Hilyard Street, 6:00pm - 8:00pm (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6580)

[Matt B.]

Please followthe link, read the proposal and then take the survey. I asked the City of Eugene staff who sent out the request for feedback if they also wanted feedback from people who did not attend the meeting but are interested in a course at Alton Baker and he said they are very interested!

Please read the proposal, be respectful and clear in your comments, and state your opinions!


West Alton Baker Park Disc Golf Proposal

Web Survey open through this Sunday, March 13th.

If you have feedback about the proposal, please visit

www.eugene-or.gov/discgolf

and take the survey.

Over 50 attendees at our Feb 23rd meeting, but only 23 survey responses received so far. Your comments count!

[Cornwall, Esq.]

I did a survey for ya. Looking at the map, I wonder why they are trying to cram everything in at the West side of Alton Baker, where they do festivals and stuff. Why not do it on the East side where there is only walking trails, lots of open space, and the elevated roadway that connects Eugene to Springfield. I remember walking or biking to Football practice at Autzen from the U of O dorms through Alton Baker, and jogging through there, and being amazed by the amount of open wilderness in the heart of a city. Has the east side ever been tried for Disc golf?

[Matt B.]

I did a survey for ya. Looking at the map, I wonder why they are trying to cram everything in at the West side of Alton Baker, where they do festivals and stuff. Why not do it on the East side where there is only walking trails, lots of open space, and the elevated roadway that connects Eugene to Springfield. I remember walking or biking to Football practice at Autzen from the U of O dorms through Alton Baker, and jogging through there, and being amazed by the amount of open wilderness in the heart of a city. Has the east side ever been tried for Disc golf?

Essentially every other corner of the park has a use or user group that prevents disc golf considerations. The area you are referring to is a "natural area" (well ok, it's partly an old landfill) that has a well organized Friends group of users. It's a good point, but has been definitively ruled out and is now a dead end for discussion. Thanks for taking the survey!

[NextLevel]

A big thank you to you Matt for keeping everyone posted on Alton Baker's development!

-Derek

[jeverett]

I did a survey for ya. Looking at the map, I wonder why they are trying to cram everything in at the West side of Alton Baker, where they do festivals and stuff. Why not do it on the East side where there is only walking trails, lots of open space, and the elevated roadway that connects Eugene to Springfield. I remember walking or biking to Football practice at Autzen from the U of O dorms through Alton Baker, and jogging through there, and being amazed by the amount of open wilderness in the heart of a city. Has the east side ever been tried for Disc golf?

As Matt mentioned, unfortunately East Alton Baker Park is not a possibility at all. :( As was explained at the meeting, apparently the allowed uses for East Alton Baker Park were decided via ballot measure a while back.. and as a result of that, Disc Golf does not meet the voter-approved criteria for acceptable uses for East Alton Baker Park.. it's too high-impact with regards to the environment.

[Cornwall, Esq.]

Thanks for the replies matt and Jeverett, makes sense. Now for something completely different: I used to do intoxicated inner tubing down the river that runs through Alton Baker when I lived in Eugene. Is there river/beach front access to the course area? Could one theoretically inner tube down the river then play a round? That would be like a recreation marathon!

[jeverett]

Well, as it's already April.. by chance has anyone heard anything about the status of the 'proposals for a disc golf concessionaire' request that the City said they would(?) be posting in 'the Spring' related to a pay-to-play disc golf course at Alton Baker Park?

[Jim J]

Well, as it's already April.. by chance has anyone heard anything about the status of the 'proposals for a disc golf concessionaire' request that the City said they would(?) be posting in 'the Spring' related to a pay-to-play disc golf course at Alton Baker Park?

Still moving forward. Next step should be releasing the results of the survey everyone took, which was on balance very positive.

There are still concerns (I believe unfounded) concerning the impact of the course on running trails and the Cuthbert parking. But the city's parks department feels that they have followed a sound planning process and the course design will address those concerns. There's complete agreement that any complaints from either trail users or the Cuthbert will get the course yanked.

Don't know when the proposal for a concessionaire will be published, but I'm sure it will be big news.

[jeverett]

Just in case anyone isn't on the mailing list to receive updates from the City (in this case Phillip Richardson, of the Parks & Open Space Division) about the Alton Baker Park disc golf plan, what follows was mailed out today:

Over 230 responses were received, the most POS has received yet for a web
survey. Although not a scientifically valid random sample survey, it does
indicate a large measure of support for a disc golf course in this location.
However, we've also heard serious safety concerns about potential conflicts
between runners and errant discs from one of the main user groups of an existing adjacent facility, Pre's Trail. We are currently working with representatives of the major affected groups to see if a solution can be found.

While not a complete no, that doesn't sound very optimistic.. nor does it leave much time for any possibility of a vendor being found before the ideal disc golfing season/weather starts, when said vendor would be most likely to be able to recover their costs.

[Matt B.]

Just in case anyone isn't on the mailing list to receive updates from the City (in this case Phillip Richardson, of the Parks & Open Space Division) about the Alton Baker Park disc golf plan, what follows was mailed out today:

Over 230 responses were received, the most POS has received yet for a web
survey. Although not a scientifically valid random sample survey, it does
indicate a large measure of support for a disc golf course in this location.
However, we've also heard serious safety concerns about potential conflicts
between runners and errant discs from one of the main user groups of an existing adjacent facility, Pre's Trail. We are currently working with representatives of the major affected groups to see if a solution can be found.

While not a complete no, that doesn't sound very optimistic.. nor does it leave much time for any possibility of a vendor being found before the ideal disc golfing season/weather starts, when said vendor would be most likely to be able to recover their costs.

I think it's very likely there will be no RFP process soon or disc golf in Alton Baker this Summer.

[weaktit]

Response #169 of question: #3

Oregon Track Club
Response to Disc Golf proposal in Alton Baker Park
The board of directors of the Oregon Track Club, in a board meeting held on March 2nd 2011, has voted to respond as follows to the Disc Golf proposal in Alton Baker Park:
We are in favor of the Park accommodating the activity of Disc Golf. We feel this is an appropriate passive activity and recreation for which passive activity and recreation for which East Alton Baker Park was created East Alton Baker Park was created.
The Oregon Track club strongly opposes the plan to site the course in the West end of the park. The currently proposed site interferes with existing uses. In particular, this site overlaps and crosses-over the heavily used Prefontaine Running Trail. We are convinced this overlap will unnecessarily cause conflicts between two user groups of significant and growing size. Disc Golf is the fastest growing sport in America. The current site is too small for this activity. This activity deserves to be in an area large enough to freely accommodate it.
The current site also potentially displaces previously long planned-for improvements such as the
children’s play area. As a reminder, OTC agreed to the relocation of the trail to allow for the children’s play area to be built 6 years ago.
We recommend that the Disc Golf course be located in the East section of Alton Baker Park. This is an under utilized portion of the park.
Our proposal meets the definitions spelled out in the Charter Amendment Measure 20-01 for the
conditions for development of East Alton Baker Park – specifically, “diverse passive recreational
activities”, and the amendment further specifically names, “ Frisbee throwing” (among other uses) ….”and other group activities deemed appropriate”.
This solution will avoid potential conflicts between disc golfers and trail users, will utilize the East end of the Park appropriately, and relieve further congestion in the West end of the Park. It also allows for the eventual completion of the long-planned children’s play area.
Measure 20-01 specifies that no single activity dominates others. Until this point in time no use has been permitted – and thus has acted to resist any allowable activity to be introduced.
The Oregon Track Club strongly supports the opening of East Alton Baker Park to allowable uses for the citizens of the community. And OTC specifically supports a Disc Golf site be approved for East Alton Baker Park.
Oregon Track Club

[jeverett]

Response #169 of question: #3

Oregon Track Club
Response to Disc Golf proposal in Alton Baker Park
The board of directors of the Oregon Track Club, in a board meeting held on March 2nd 2011, has voted to respond as follows to the Disc Golf proposal in Alton Baker Park:
We are in favor of the Park accommodating the activity of Disc Golf. We feel this is an appropriate passive activity and recreation for which passive activity and recreation for which East Alton Baker Park was created East Alton Baker Park was created.
The Oregon Track club strongly opposes the plan to site the course in the West end of the park. The currently proposed site interferes with existing uses. In particular, this site overlaps and crosses-over the heavily used Prefontaine Running Trail. We are convinced this overlap will unnecessarily cause conflicts between two user groups of significant and growing size. Disc Golf is the fastest growing sport in America. The current site is too small for this activity. This activity deserves to be in an area large enough to freely accommodate it.
The current site also potentially displaces previously long planned-for improvements such as the
children’s play area. As a reminder, OTC agreed to the relocation of the trail to allow for the children’s play area to be built 6 years ago.
We recommend that the Disc Golf course be located in the East section of Alton Baker Park. This is an under utilized portion of the park.
Our proposal meets the definitions spelled out in the Charter Amendment Measure 20-01 for the
conditions for development of East Alton Baker Park – specifically, “diverse passive recreational
activities”, and the amendment further specifically names, “ Frisbee throwing” (among other uses) ….”and other group activities deemed appropriate”.
This solution will avoid potential conflicts between disc golfers and trail users, will utilize the East end of the Park appropriately, and relieve further congestion in the West end of the Park. It also allows for the eventual completion of the long-planned children’s play area.
Measure 20-01 specifies that no single activity dominates others. Until this point in time no use has been permitted – and thus has acted to resist any allowable activity to be introduced.
The Oregon Track Club strongly supports the opening of East Alton Baker Park to allowable uses for the citizens of the community. And OTC specifically supports a Disc Golf site be approved for East Alton Baker Park.
Oregon Track Club

*huh* Interesting.. however is the Oregon Track Club aware of the City's statement that disc golf does not meet the voter-approved criteria for acceptable uses for East Alton Baker Park? Is the City's opinion on East Alton Baker Park negotiable (i.e. not final)? Or would the opening of East Alton Baker Park for other uses require the equivalent of a new ballot measure?

Edit: Just to add to this a little, if anyone would care to read the East Alton Baker Park Plan (dated 1996) and the specific description of the kinds of 'passive recreational' activities it supports, it can be found here:

http://www.eugene-or.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_236614_0_0_18/EABP_Plan_1996.pdf

By that document, it would appear that the ultimate authority to determine the intent of the 'passive recreational activities' clause is a 'East Alton Baker Park Citizen Planning Committee'.. unless of course that authority has been transferred since 1996.

[Matt B.]

*huh* Interesting.. however is the Oregon Track Club aware of the City's statement that disc golf does not meet the voter-approved criteria for acceptable uses for East Alton Baker Park? Is the City's opinion on East Alton Baker Park negotiable (i.e. not final)? Or would the opening of East Alton Baker Park for other uses require the equivalent of a new ballot measure?

Edit: Just to add to this a little, if anyone would care to read the East Alton Baker Park Plan (dated 1996) and the specific description of the kinds of 'passive recreational' activities it supports, it can be found here:

http://www.eugene-or.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_236614_0_0_18/EABP_Plan_1996.pdf

By that document, it would appear that the ultimate authority to determine the intent of the 'passive recreational activities' clause is a 'East Alton Baker Park Citizen Planning Committee'.. unless of course that authority has been transferred since 1996.

There's a lot going on here behind the scenes with these two groups, and IMO little of it has to do with the actual safety of the current course proposal, and most of it has to do with politics and old animosities. Suffice it to say that the OTC's current campaign against the proposal has potentially crippled the chance for this to be a course someday.
I don't think getting into it here is going to help so I'll just shut up.

[jeverett]

There's a lot going on here behind the scenes with these two groups, and IMO little of it has to do with the actual safety of the current course proposal, and most of it has to do with politics and old animosities. Suffice it to say that the OTC's current campaign against the proposal has potentially crippled the chance for this to be a course someday.
I don't think getting into it here is going to help so I'll just shut up.

I did find it a bit ironic to learn that the original ballot measure (20-01) was passed to prevent East Alton Baker Park from being developed as a (ball) golf course. While disc golf is definitely less impact than that, I'm really not sure how the OTC could legitimately come to the conclusion that a disc golf course in East Alton Baker Park meets the voter-approved requirements for East Alton Baker Park 'passive recreational uses'. From the specific wording and spirit of that 1996 document, I have to say that if I were on the 'Citizen Planning Committee' I wouldn't approve disc golf in East Alton Baker Park.

Now if that plan could be changed..

[Jim J]

TSuffice it to say that the OTC's current campaign against the proposal has potentially crippled the chance for this to be a course someday.

Last night members of the OTC Board and the city parks walked through the north section again to see if there wasn't some way of accomodating the OTC's issues. Haven't heard any news yet on what was discussed or who, other than some of the OTC people, attended.

So this proposal isn't completely dead (yet).

DG has some allies in the OTC who want to see more people in the park, but there's a few folks who feel that Pre's Trail is sacred ground and alllowing DG would be like letting people rock climb on Mt. Rushmore.

That being said the OTC Board is very interested in opening up the east side to more passive recreation. They know that it wouldn't take much to create a world-class cross country venue right in the heart of the city if they could make some changes to the trails over there.

They also know the only way to do that is to build a broad alliance of interest groups which includes disc golfers. So the OTC's opposition to the west side course is tempered by their interest in building partnerships.

As far as the east side goes; yeah, you've got the master plan and the Citizen's Planning Committee, but if you read that plan it talks about the need to make changes over time to accomodate changes in recreation patterns, etc.

If these changes to the plan are going to happen it'll need to be the city council or mayor pushing it.