2011 Rules Comments: Holing Out

[Kenny B]

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

[Sausage Fingers]

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

WEAK SAUCE!!!!:pullhair:

:pirate:

[DMajor]

I agree with the sticking in the side of the cage rule change. That's generally a pretty bad putt. But if you chain out an are lucky enough to catch a nub and hang it should count in my opinion. I think I've only seen that happen once or twice.

[Uhlman]

What is the printing date for rule book you got, because it's not in the one I got this October

[TreeLove]

The part about not coming through the top is absurd. There are approved Innova baskets on which the disc can fit through the top (ever play at Champoeg)? Debating whether an ace came through the top is not an argument I want to have on the course. I will urge the PDGA to reconsider or change again in 2012.

[Scott]

I hope that rule is not retroactive - I'd lose an ace.

[Scott]

I agree with the sticking in the side of the cage rule change. That's generally a pretty bad putt. But if you chain out an are lucky enough to catch a nub and hang it should count in my opinion. I think I've only seen that happen once or twice.

Sticking in the side of the cage is more likely to occur with a drive or upshot.

[Uhlman]

I wonder why they decide to change this rule. if the disc is stuck in the cage at least some part of is on the inside of the basket. This is good enough to be in bounds when it comes to that rule (or have they changed that too?)

[RonTheWhip]

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

I agree with this rule. It takes away some of the luck factor involved with slipping in the sides, or sticking into the tray, which, was not a good throw to begin with.

As far as the ACE debate goes, the rule has the covered Gawain - "A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out..." simple: if they didn't see it go in through the sides or the top, then they can't take it away from you.

I also appreciate this rule for when it comes to folks slapping the chains while holding the disc in their hands...that is not holing out! Let go of the disc if you want it to count.

Good work PDGA.

[JMan]

A friend has the luck, I've seen him stick more of his floppy Soft Mags in the sides of baskets than seems possible, he's gonna be pissed. But remember this is for pdga sanctioned play, not casual rounds. I'll still give him those. Don't forget friends, the pdga has to change things, that's what you pay them for.

[RonTheWhip]

I wonder why they decide to change this rule. if the disc is stuck in the cage at least some part of is on the inside of the basket. This is good enough to be in bounds when it comes to that rule (or have they changed that too?)

Way different instances here. Landing on an out of bounds line and being partially in bounds (thus ruled safe) is very different from squeezing a soft putter through the edge of the tray. While both are lucky in a sense, unless you land completely out of bounds, it wasn't a bad shot. Missing the target area low by a few inches...is a bad shot. Just my opinon. And no, to my knowledge, they have not changed any rulings on OB for the 2011 addition, although I look forward to recieving my copy and reading it thoroughly.

[snap7times]

WTH, that takes away my ace shot at Cascades that won me $100, flew perfect the whole way, was just inches low and stuck, which is the only disc I have ever stuck in the cage in my years of playing disc golf anyways. Similar to a 5 foot high bounce in ball golf that hits the stick bounces down and spins in; this I would compare to sticking the cage from a distance because the stick is not in the hole but helps the ball go in the hole... hmmmm... while I agree short putts that stick are bad putts, that takes away long perfect shots that get stuck in the cage... interesting stuff... next year the 10M rule will become the 15M rule? ;)

[Kenny B]

What is the printing date for rule book you got, because it's not in the one I got this October

I don't see a printing date, but the bottom of the inside cover says: Copyright 2011. Also, the top of page 1 says: Revised January 1, 2011.

[Yardbird]

Sure, you can argue that the putt was not in perfect form, but in all reality, the disc was supported by the basket and at rest (this should also include DROTs). Not everyone has perfect putting form on every shot and should be allowed a little luck every now and then, especially on throws from outside of 75 feet.

So, maybe the PDGA should allow discs supported outside of the basket on throws from outside of 100 feet? But, of course, that would not make the rule simple and would lead to distance disputes.

If you are really worried about bad putts being rewarded, then remove all the nubs from the top of the tray. All they do is prevent skips out of the tray/basket on putts that were either on the weak side, stong side, or too high.

[DMajor]

Sticking in the side of the cage is more likely to occur with a drive or upshot.

Hmmm, I've played my fair share of disc golf and never seen a drive or upshot stick in the side of the cage. Probably seen atleast a dozen or two putts stick.

[sillybizz]

So what if my disc goes into the chains and then goes out through the hole in the cage? Does that mean It's a completed hole now? I know with most baskets this most likely will never happen but at Lake Stevens this is a regular thing, especially with everyone using floppy putters and such with those baskets.

If they don't want them going through that part then why not make a new basket covering it up completely?

[smobro]

Fortunately this rule change will have little effect on the overall outcome of most PDGA events. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it would be unbelievably rare to ever have a failed putt that stuck in the side of the cage cause someone to lose a PDGA event.
That is no different than having a putt spit out at a costly moment.
It has to come to rest inside the basket or chains.... but I am a fan of removing the chains altogether.

[Scott]

Hmmm, I've played my fair share of disc golf and never seen a drive or upshot stick in the side of the cage. Probably seen atleast a dozen or two putts stick.

That's funny, I've never seen a putt stick in the side of the cage. I've seen a few aces stick in the side of the cage and have heard of several more.

[Sausage Fingers]

That's funny, I've never seen a putt stick in the side of the cage. I've seen a few aces stick in the side of the cage and have heard of several more.

I've played with someone who could putt the shit out of those through the cage putts with an amazingly floppy putter. 15-25 feet away, thrown hard and flat at below the rim height and they go all the way through the cage and stay in the basket.

Still not in favor of the new rule, and i love me some rules...

:pirate:

[snap7times]

here's my $100 ace on #2 at Cascade. 222 footer. Glo Stalker in 15 mph left to right winds

Just took a look at that picture, no that is notttt my tag! I tagged my disc, had 4-5 people sign it and it's being dyed now. Took a picture of the ace obviously too... but that is not my tag lol...

[RonTheWhip]

here's my $100 ace on #2 at Cascade. 222 footer. Glo Stalker in 15 mph left to right winds

Just took a look at that picture, no that is notttt my tag! I tagged my disc, had 4-5 people sign it and it's being dyed now. Took a picture of the ace obviously too... but that is not my tag lol...

Great park job Snap! Don't forget to let of the disc as you drop in that deuce :). Making birdies look easy...

[LJ Jubner]

Boooooooooooo and no it's BO'urns
Yet another example of a rule being adopted or changed for no good reason. I saw a disc stick in the cage on Sun. It was a really sss summit.
I find this confusing that a disc being supported by the device designed to catch the disc is not in. Maybe the cages need to be redesigned and then every course needs to address that retro upgrade. I see $$$$$$$$ for the manufactures. I predict the yellow bands now around the cages too.
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo

I guess some open player got beat by one of these and has enough individual pull to make it uncomfortable for the powers that be. But after 30 years had no protocol for sanctioned"Series" events being were ancillary games.

[Vector_2008]

I find it kinda odd that the PDGA issued the paper version of the 2011 rules before putting it on the internet.
The internet is the cheapest and fastest way to disseminate information to the masses.

How many people aren't going to know about the rules changes until they update their membership?

How many update their membership at the first tournament they attend in the spring?

[Chuck Kennedy]

One of the main reasons for tightening up the holing out requirements wasn't as much to kill wedgies observed to come from the outside but to be more consistent with the constant whining about "discs resting on top" (DROT) not counting and wedgies counting. Rather than allowing DROTs (which have always been perceived as 'bad' throws) to count, the RC felt it was important to finally minimize the chances wedgies from the outside (also 'bad' throws) would count.

The updated target specs in 2009 reduced the allowable maximum opening on the sides and bottoms of baskets to 18cm in new target models approved as a nod toward reducing wedgies in the future (minimum diameter of a disc is 21cm). But unless the minimum flexibility of discs was increased retroactively, eliminating thousands of player's favorite discs, we'll still have some wedgies 20 years from now.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I find it kinda odd that the PDGA issued the paper version of the 2011 rules before putting it on the internet. The internet is the cheapest and fastest way to disseminate information to the masses.
Getting copy ready for the printing deadline came before the info was really needed for display on the Internet which isn't until just before Jan 1st. Just a matter of priorities for all of the things the Tour Manager has to get done to prepare for the new year. And all of the approved (Passed) and potential future changes being discussed (Closed) have actually been online here since September although not on the PDGA site yet: http://pellucid.com/conrad/pdga/rules2011.html

[TreeLove]

I still say I don't want to try and debate what someone "saw" or "didn't see". Heck, that's why the basket was INVENTED - it is too easy to argue "I didn't see you hit the target" in object golf! Therefore, I strongly disagree with a rule that says my putt, resting in the basket, on a legal target, does not count - I find that preposterous. Hence, the part about not coming through the top, which can be done on certain Innova baskets (see Champoeg), should be stricken.

[Vector_2008]

potential future changes being discussed (Closed) have actually been online here since September although not on the PDGA site yet: http://pellucid.com/conrad/pdga/rules2011.html

I read part of that site before, but that is far from official looking. It looks like someone personal website. You know what they say about stuff you read on the internet. "It has to be true if you read it on the internet.":biggrin2:

I would prefer a listing of rule changes for 2011 on the PDGA site where the masses would actually read them.

[Chuck Kennedy]

We require visual judgment calls by the group or officials in many places in our self-officiated sport. So it's consistent with other judgment calls required such as making/missing a mando, foot faults, last point IB, etc. Wedgie calls will occur significantly less often than those examples mentioned.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I would prefer a listing of rule changes for 2011 on the PDGA site where the masses would actually read them.
...and I indicated they would be, just before needed.

[Uhlman]

One of the main reasons for tightening up the holing out requirements wasn't as much to kill wedgies observed to come from the outside but to be more consistent with the constant whining about "discs resting on top" (DROT) not counting and wedgies counting. Rather than allowing DROTs (which have always been perceived as 'bad' throws) to count, the RC felt it was important to finally minimize the chances wedgies from the outside (also 'bad' throws) would count.

The updated target specs in 2009 reduced the allowable maximum opening on the sides and bottoms of baskets to 18cm in new target models approved as a nod toward reducing wedgies in the future (minimum diameter of a disc is 21cm). But unless the minimum flexibility of discs was increased retroactively, eliminating thousands of player's favorite discs, we'll still have some wedgies 20 years from now.
well that makes sence...

This rule will not take effect until Jan 1st and will not cancel anyone’s previous “wedgies” is that correct?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Correct

[runnaman]

I like the rule.

I don't mean to always compare disc golf to ball golf, but a "wedgie" in ball golf would be like the ball right on the edge of the hole. It's not in yet, even though some if it is in the hole area. That was a really bad description, but hopefully you get the idea.

[LJ Jubner]

I like the rule.

I don't mean to always compare disc golf to ball golf, but a "wedgie" in ball golf would be like the ball right on the edge of the hole. It's not in yet, even though some if it is in the hole area. That was a really bad description, but hopefully you get the idea.


I would think of more like the "Rub of the Green" cliche`It's more like hitting the flag itself (or the stick for that matter) and then did it go in or not situation.

[Scott]

I always had a hard time understanding why a DROT didn't count as in, but a wedgie did. This rule makes more sense to me.

[DMajor]

That's funny, I've never seen a putt stick in the side of the cage. I've seen a few aces stick in the side of the cage and have heard of several more.

I used to putt with soft magnets in the summer time. Seemed like one out of ten putts into the side of the cage would stick.

[Scott]

I used to putt with soft magnets in the summer time. Seemed like one out of ten putts into the side of the cage would stick.

Aim higher.

[Kenny B]

Well, I think I like the consistency this rule brings. I consider both DROTs and wedgies to be "bad" putts.

My concern is for shots that enter above the top of the tray and then wedge in the side. They can be supported in the same fashion as a wedgie entering below the top of the tray. (I've always called these inner and outer wedgies :laughing:.) It may be that most inner wedgies have a majority of the disc on the inside and that most outer wedgies have a majority of the disc on the outside, but in both cases, the disc is supported by the same surface of the tray: the part of the tray bars that make up neither the inside "wall" nor outside "wall" of the tray.

As written now, I'm not sure the rules give any room for an inside wedgie to count as "in", even if witnessed. And, if the rules can be interpereted such that inner wedgies count. Than also outer wedgies should count as "in" for blind shots where there were no witness as to how the disc became wedged.

Any thoughts on this....

[Uhlman]

Well, I think I like the consistency this rule brings. I consider both DROTs and wedgies to be "bad" putts.

My concern is for shots that enter above the top of the tray and then wedge in the side. They can be supported in the same fashion as a wedgie entering below the top of the tray. (I've always called these inner and outer wedgies :laughing:.) It may be that most inner wedgies have a majority of the disc on the inside and that most outer wedgies have a majority of the disc on the outside, but in both cases, the disc is supported by the same surface of the tray: the part of the tray bars that make up neither the inside "wall" nor outside "wall" of the tray.

As written now, I'm not sure the rules give any room for an inside wedgie to count as "in", even if witnessed. And, if the rules can be interpereted such that inner wedgies count. Than also outer wedgies should count as "in" for blind shots where there were no witness as to how the disc became wedged.

Any thoughts on this....
that is a good question... my wife got an inner-wedgie once with a stiff DX cobra would this still count (if it happened again) under the new rule as it was clearly inside the basket and met all the other requirements?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Inner wedgies will still count whether witnessed or not. The ruling I'm not sure is "right" is a disc hanging on the nub but outside the basket will not be good even if it was observed to get there from maybe bouncing back from hitting the pole. It brings into question whether the rare putt balancing level on the basket rim is good or not since a disc hanging from the nub but inside the basket will be good.

[Matt B.]

that is a good question... my wife got an inner-wedgie once with a stiff DX cobra

HEY NOW!!!!!

[Uhlman]

HEY NOW!!!!!
too much???

[all2common]

I like the rule.

I don't mean to always compare disc golf to ball golf, but a "wedgie" in ball golf would be like the ball right on the edge of the hole. It's not in yet, even though some if it is in the hole area. That was a really bad description, but hopefully you get the idea.

Thanks, Chase. This thread is cracking me up.

[Kenny B]

Inner wedgies will still count whether witnessed or not. The ruling I'm not sure is "right" is a disc hanging on the nub but outside the basket will not be good even if it was observed to get there from maybe bouncing back from hitting the pole. It brings into question whether the rare putt balancing level on the basket rim is good or not since a disc hanging from the nub but inside the basket will be good.

Interesting. I have one time had my disc hit the chains, flip over, and then land top-down balanced on the top of the tray. As the rules are written now, that would not count since it is not supported by the bottom or inside wall?

[Chuck Kennedy]

I don't know for sure since in theory, the disc is half in and half out and "nubbed in" is IN and "nubbed out" is NOT IN with the new rules. I sent a note to the RC about this.

[bvdisc]

This is definitely a good rule. Wedgies, while cool to have happen if it's your putter, are just missed putts that got lucky. This is more consistent with what a good putt should be. :yay::yay:

[mine all mine]

I like the rule.

I don't mean to always compare disc golf to ball golf, but a "wedgie" in ball golf would be like the ball right on the edge of the hole. It's not in yet, even though some if it is in the hole area. That was a really bad description, but hopefully you get the idea.

Actually, I think a wedgie in ball golf would be the ball hitting the pole and getting "wedged" between the pole and the opening of the hole.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Actually, I think a wedgie in ball golf would be the ball hitting the pole and getting "wedged" between the pole and the opening of the hole.
I think that's more like a disc getting stuck trying to get in thru the top of the chain support. I'm not sure there's a direct equivalent in golf to a wedgie since there's no "illegal" way to enter the cup. Now, in Minnesota we have gophers. Perhaps a wayward gopher digs another hole on the green and accidentally tunnels the route into the golf cup below grade. The player's upshot lands in the gopher hole and rolls almost into the cup from below. When the player goes to look for his ball, he sees it just barely peeking into the cup from the gopher tunnel.

[Bullseye]

I think that's more like a disc getting stuck trying to get in thru the top of the chain support. I'm not sure there's a direct equivalent in golf to a wedgie since there's no "illegal" way to enter the cup. Now, in Minnesota we have gophers. Perhaps a wayward gopher digs another hole on the green and accidentally tunnels the route into the golf cup below grade. The player's upshot lands in the gopher hole and rolls almost into the cup from below. When the player goes to look for his ball, he sees it just barely peeking into the cup from the gopher tunnel.

And then... when he reaches for the ball... WHAM. The Vorpal Gopher takes his arm off!

http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/435HolyGrail.jpg

[Uhlman]

Will there be a doc on the PDGA site outlining the changes in 2011 for those of us that have the previous version of the rulebook?

[emmarose]

And then... when he reaches for the ball... WHAM. The Vorpal Gopher takes his arm off!

http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/435HolyGrail.jpg

it's got fangs!!!

[Scott]

it's got fangs!!!

That rabbit is dynamite!

[Chuck Kennedy]

Will there be a doc on the PDGA site outlining the changes in 2011 for those of us that have the previous version of the rulebook?
As soon as most of the remaining events for this year are done (next week?), they will replace the current rules with the new ones online. Part of that is a "Summary of Changes" section just like the last book.

[jshrack]

Sounds to me like the inside wedgie would NOT count unless the disc is touching the bottom of the basket.
These putts balanced on the edge wouldn't count either... (disc isn't supported by chains or bottom of basket.)

[Sausage Fingers]

Sounds to me like the inside wedgie would NOT count unless the disc is touching the bottom of the basket.
These putts balanced on the edge wouldn't count either... (disc isn't supported by chains or bottom of basket.)

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray.

[Kenny B]

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray.

Where does the inside wall start and stop? The wall typically consists of bars with a round cross section.

[jshrack]

It should just be 'disc must be supported by the chains or basket'
DROT is a DROT... It's not in the chains or basket. Clear enough.
Wedgies should count...so should nubs... "Luck" happens.

"luck" - forum allowed four letter word

[LJ Jubner]

It's funny really; a supposed rule clarification actually muddies the water more. D'oh

[LJ Jubner]

"luck" - forum allowed four letter word

They allow four letter words all the time like "DISC" and "GOLF"

[Sausage Fingers]

It should just be 'disc must be supported by the chains or basket'
DROT is a DROT... It's not in the chains or basket. Clear enough.
Wedgies should count...so should nubs... "Luck" happens.

"luck" - forum allowed four letter word

What HE said!:yay::trophy::yay:

This is a dumb rule!:pirate:

[Ol' Bob]

Yeah, what if the wedgie is going through the back side of the basket and is over half way out, but still hanging? Could happen. My only wedgie birdie was on 18 at Trojan, when I stuck my floppy IV-times, JK Pro Aviar in the front. But what if it had cleared the front rim and stuck, going out the back, but nobody was in position to see it get there?

[emmarose]

i've never seen a wedgie of the un-underpants related sort, so it was demonstrated to me this last weekend at team golf what it would look like... frankly... looks like a bad putt to me, i can actually see where the pdga is coming from on this one... at least i think i can... honestly, this is a very confusing thread... and it's made me realize the importance of putting practice and good solid putts, that's for sure...

[Chuck Kennedy]

It's good. Any wedgie not observed because the group was too far away to see it or it was a blind hole, is good. The group watching a putt properly go over the basket rim then wedge on the way out is also good. Only "bad" shots observed by the group that either enter the basket below the rim and wedge, or come thru the top, will be not good.

[LJ Jubner]

So My question is what do the manufactures who all sell some sort of soft or floppy putter think of this?

[Chuck Kennedy]

One is on the Rules Committee. Not sure it even entered into anyone's mind. A bad putt is a bad putt. If it made sense to make baskets solid basins in the beginning, it would have been done. But the way they were made with heavy duty wire turned out to be efficient from a strength, durability and weight standpoint but unfortunately they let some putts stick in the side.

[olydiscgolf]

Everybody is talking about "wedgies" being bad shots....Every time I have done, or have seen a "wedgie", it hasn't been a putt, It has always been an up shot. Hitting the basket on an up-shot is a pretty good shot!

Seems the rules committee is doing things just to say they did something.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Hitting the number plate, the chain support and pipe are all theoretically "good" on upshots but that alone does not mean you should have completed the hole. If that's the case, then let's go back to poles with no expensive baskets required.

[CarlitosBonitos]

Enough said...

[LJ Jubner]

Hitting the number plate, the chain support and pipe are all theoretically "good" on upshots but that alone does not mean you should have completed the hole. If that's the case, then let's go back to poles with no expensive baskets required.

Everything you mentioned number plate, chain support and actual pole (we call that a Marco) and even nubs all reward bad or poor putting. Nubs really only help on full throws/ace runs.

The old run basically stated The disc must come to rest on any part intended to support the disc was considered "Holed out".

Think of ball golf
On the green the flag must come out either before the stroke or as the ball nears the hole (tended). The flag may not interfere with the roll of the putt.
Its the players choice to remove the flag or not if he/she is just off the green. It is in his/her best intrest that the flag stays in because if it hits the flag and goes in it counts.
On a hole in one you must remove the ball without removing the flag for it to count.
How about the shot that hits the stick or flag and drops straight down and in.


With this in mind realize our sport has already designed discs for this very purpose. The bullet was too small, The zephyr (until recently) was too big. Now don't get me wrong uniformity is a good thing but...

What this really means to me is the manufactures lobbied the board in such a way that they were able to influence the policies of the pDGA. Which is easier(and less expensive) re design all the Discs AND Baskets or change the rules?


I am still curious how many times wedgies actually happens?
Did the current rule actually cost someone a championship during the past year?

I have played since 1998 and have seen it maybe 25 times (Not counting LSH and it's patio furniture targets) One recently by an better then average player who threw a disc designed for that very purpose stick in the outside of the cage. And I have a personal experience of the drop threw the top. Mine stuck and the next player putted and it dropped.



Oh Boy Tone Poles
What a great idea! Anyone remember the old controversy..."well? we did not see it hit. but we sure heard it hit! so it's Holed Out, Right?" (whether it hit the base of the pole hard enough to sound the bell ring.)

[SMOKIN JOE]

Let's just put holes in the ground. That would solve the problem.

[Chuck Kennedy]

If all baskets were exactly the same design with exactly the same gap openings similar to the consistency of a ball golf hole, you might be able to make the argument that we ought to let the fluky wedgies from the outside count, just for simplicity. But shots were never intended to count coming in the side of the basket, or worse yet, the bottom. I've seen a bottom wedgie ace back in the 90s on an old Mach II. Down the road, for an observer outside our sport, I don't think you want to have a major event where the player holes out with a wedgie in the side. Not good is not good.

[jshrack]

Yeah, what if the wedgie is going through the back side of the basket and is over half way out, but still hanging? Could happen. My only wedgie birdie was on 18 at Trojan, when I stuck my floppy IV-times, JK Pro Aviar in the front. But what if it had cleared the front rim and stuck, going out the back, but nobody was in position to see it get there?

The basket was designed to bypass this issue.
The new rules are obviously designed for top tier tourneys.
It only creates a headache for the rest of us.

[Chuck Kennedy]

And it's a good thing there aren't any top tier tourneys in Oregon. Oh, wait...

As pointed out, wedgies happen so infrequently that people usually have to pull out the rulebook to make sure they know how to call it. The rule will just have a different result next year for some cases.

[Ol' Bob]

Well yeah, I could never get close enough with my tiny drive for anything you'd call a "putt" on Trojan 18. I use that JK Pro IV-Times mainly as an approach disc. If I was inside 10 meters, I'd never be throwing hard enough to stick one, nor would I select a soft putter so as to try to. Well anyway, I don't play tourneys anymore and I keep track of my score the way I wuz learnt to. I'm too old to be retrained now. I never bet more than my bag tag number, so I'm not likely to get challenged to a duel of honor over my second ever wedgie hole-out.

[KenGilmore]

I really like the new rule. There is already enough luck (good and bad) in disc golf; we don't need to find more ways of increasing the luck factor, especially when it is so easy to remedy in a situation such as this.

[Scott]

I've never been able understand why a disc on top doesn't count but one jammed in the side did. It seems pretty clear that the basket was designed to catch discs on the inside. This rule just clears things up a little. I like it.

Yeah, it may cost someone a stroke or two over the course of their career. I consider it a small price to pay.

[Flatroc]

I for one should be like Jordan and hate this rule.
I have a 137 gram Omega SS from Ice Bowl '98 that has at least 10 (closer to 20) outer basket wedgies.
I've had 2 or 3 go all the way through into the basket. I saw an ace at Crystal Mt. by Jerry Bailey, that wedged almost underneath an old Ray Seicks wooden frame basket. It was kinda funny watching him run down the mountain to get it before it sprung out.
From an old timers perspective, it's about frickin' time!
Most of my wedgies are low putts and I feel weird mojo accepting them.
Jordan, quit crying, you are a great putter!
You don't need that kind of luck.

[Flash]

I also like the rule and it is about time. Lets face it if they made the baskets correct we would not even have this rule or this thread. The fact that a disc could even come to reset in the side of the basket is a bad basket design, however when they started making baskets the disc of choice was larger then the ones we throw today.

Making the rule is necessary to make compliant all the baskets on the thousands of courses around the world with the new basket standards. A disc stuck in the side should be no better then one that hits the side and rolls 20 feet away. Both should require a throw to finish the hole. I am still confused on how this rule change makes it more confusing to rule a shot as finishing the hole!

Jub, in my years of ball golf I have seen far more balls hit the pole or flag and ricochet off the green as apposed to dropping into the cup.

[Sausage Fingers]

You don't need that kind of luck.

Doesn't mean it isn't a dumb rule.

:pirate:

[whalekillah]

I would like to see a wedgie at Horning's Hideout. That would require a rulebook for sure.

[LJ Jubner]

Jub, in my years of ball golf I have seen far more balls hit the pole or flag and ricochet off the green as apposed to dropping into the cup.

That is the other option and yes it does happen more often. My point was luck has as much to do with it as skill does.
The old sayinfg I'd rather be lucky(good) then good(lucky)

[Chuck Kennedy]

For the early basket designs where larger diameter discs were used, I also don't believe they ever thought they would "need" a maximum flexibility spec. Not allowing discs to be more flexible than a certain amount would be another, but even less popular, way to reduce the chance for wedgies.

[Flatroc]

I've played with someone who could putt the shit out of those through the cage putts with an amazingly floppy putter. 15-25 feet away, thrown hard and flat at below the rim height and they go all the way through the cage and stay in the basket.

Still not in favor of the new rule, and i love me some rules...

:pirate:

It counts if it goes through.
FWIW, most of mine have been forehand Annie Oakley slams.
So, what else you got bud?
What's dumb about a low putt that you end up counting?
Do I remember you using an avatar or profile pic that had a "NO LOW PUTTS" symbol or something similar?
Maybe market a new decal with a disc stuck in the side of the cage with the big slash line through it. NO WEDGIES!
On the other hand, maybe you and I could talk the Whistlers Misfit's to allow wedgies at the WBDS next year. :cheers:

[Kenny B]

It counts if it goes through.
FWIW, most of mine have been forehand Annie Oakley slams.
So, what else you got bud?
What's dumb about a low putt that you end up counting?
Do I remember you using an avatar or profile pic that had a "NO LOW PUTTS" symbol or something similar?
Maybe market a new decal with a disc stuck in the side of the cage with the big slash line through it. NO WEDGIES!
On the other hand, maybe you and I could talk the Whistlers Misfit's to allow wedgies at the WBDS next year. :cheers:

Under the new rule, it will not count if it goes through (as long as it's witnessed as described in the rule).

[Ol' Bob]

Allow wedgies...
http://nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/image.php?u=371&dateline=1288650381
...or the alien gets it!

[Flatroc]

Under the new rule, it will not count if it goes through (as long as it's witnessed as described in the rule).

"As long as it's witnessed" might create some big issues.
Just imagine some of us old fella's looking at each other with question marks on our foreheads asking if it went through the side, or not. :chinscratch:
Let's say someone from the group before you says they saw your shot go through the side. As long as it's witnessed?
I think if it's surrounded by the inner wall of the basket, it's in, and it should count. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't like the idea of it counting, but it would remove the doubt.
There is no comparison to the few times a putt actually goes through the cage and sticks, and the "normal" putts.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The new 2011 rules are now posted on the PDGA site: http://www.pdga.com/rules

803.05 and 803.13 have the most changes.

[Kenny B]

Allow wedgies...
http://nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/image.php?u=371&dateline=1288650381
...or the alien gets it!

He already ate my disc!

[Ol' Bob]

He already ate my disc!

So, that's why they're here!

[EnigmaSquad]

Hmmm, I've played my fair share of disc golf and never seen a drive or upshot stick in the side of the cage. Probably seen atleast a dozen or two putts stick.

Check out my avatar. This was an Ace. (Or WAS an Ace).